No more q-school!!

[Mrstealurgurl6969]

How does everyone feel about the new schedule change and no more q-school. Also the nationwide tour will have more affect and will no longer be called nationwide.

[DomenicC36]

I had a good cry about an hour ago, but Im over it now.

[larrybud]

It's the end of the average joe trying to be a one in a billion shot at getting on tour.

Not to mention you will need some serious cash now to become a pro on the PGA tour, because the risk to give up your way of life has much less reward by going from Q school to the Nationwide tour. I mean, is anyone out of the top 50 on the Nationwide really making any kind of living? $125k for the 50th on the money list last year, minus your bazillion in expenses?

The young guys coming out of college might have the sponsors to do it, but would a guy like Ken Duke who is probably more on his way down than up?

[Medic]

How is this going to effect The Big Break? I wonder if the new lower tour will still allow winners to receive exemptions.

[Sooner7x]

It is not the End of Q school

under the old system 131 of the 156 Finalists got some kind of Nationwide Status and 25 got PGA Status. Most of the other 25 either came from the 126-200 PGA or top 75 nationwide anyway.

Look at the 25 winners the past few years you will recognize many of the names

the truth is average joe never made it that way anyway, a year on the Nationwide better than trying to make the quantum leap from mini tours or college to PGA

[vietnameeh]

man this is going to cater to the guys "IF YOUR GOOD YOULL find a way to MAKE IT"

but some guys who might be at the cusp of making it or playing developmental/mini/nationwide for awhile might just give up... getting sponsors is tough already.... and so much talent out there already makes it even more "depressing"

I think it does a good job of getting elite players or top quality...

but it loses the allure of that "tin cup" stories... average good tournament golfer from lesser known colleges/courses/places etc (not your wannabe + handi golfwrx golfer) might think twice about going pro

[SadTrombone]

[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1332297973' post='4547490']
It's the end of the average joe trying to be a one in a billion shot at getting on tour.

[/quote]
This.

[78blades]

As I understand it Q school will now be for qualifying for the Nation Wide tour. The process of going from the Nation Wide tour to "the show" is now a little different.

[bte2]

I am bitter to say the least.


About 7 years ago they made it so you had to pre qualify to monday qualify.
Then they added the pre-qualifier to Q-School. (Which I actually liked)
But now this is a little too much.

I think this is a poor move by the PGA Tour and will only help the European Tour because now it might be cost worthy to go that route. The European Tour is already gaining a lot of ground on the PGA.

I wouldn't be as bitter if they would have atleast left 10 spots. A chance to get there. It just seems less productive to spend 15K going through Q school to get Nationwide status and battling a year to get PGA tour status.

Looks like this year will be the last hurrah followed by a sprint to maintain your card.

Im just bitter. Time for the pub.

[mihi4]

To me, it's a way to keep "the guys together", as long as possible, without interruption from the outside.
Sad, in my eyes.
The ones already making a lot of money without being at the top, will stay there without needing to perform...

just my 2cents

[Sooner7x]

[quote name='bte2' timestamp='1332314280' post='4548544']
I am bitter to say the least.


About 7 years ago they made it so you had to pre qualify to monday qualify.
Then they added the pre-qualifier to Q-School. (Which I actually liked)
But now this is a little too much.

[b]Both changes added access for "average joes" now anyone with a 4 handicap can try to qualify for the Byron Nelson. How would you recommend to run a 300 player monday qualifier[/b]

I think this is a poor move by the PGA Tour and will only help the European Tour because now it might be cost worthy to go that route. The European Tour is already gaining a lot of ground on the PGA.

I wouldn't be as bitter if they would have atleast left 10 spots. A chance to get there. It just seems less productive to spend 15K going through Q school to get Nationwide status and battling a year to get PGA tour status.

[b]This is the reality already. Out of thousands who start off at 1st stage only 25 make straight to the show. And those 25 almost all come from players who were exempt all the way to finals, such as players 126-200 on this years money list.[/b]
[b]The fact is recent PGA tour members who don't have cards end up being the 25, not mini tour pros who start at 1st stage.
[/b]
Looks like this year will be the last hurrah followed by a sprint to maintain your card.
[b]
[/b]
[b]There are 50 cards available now through the Nationwide. If your'e good enough to make cuts on the PGA you should have no problem monday qualify for a few nationwide events and earn your way into the top 50. worst case you go to q school and spend one year on Nationwide. [/b]
[b]
[/b]
[b]The fact is a card wouldnt do most mini tour pros any good anyway because you have to make cut to get paid. If you are good enough to make cuts, you already have a card [/b]


Time for the pub.
[b]
[/b]
[b]No argument from me on this one[/b]

[/quote]

[bte2]

I am bitter to say the least.

 

About 7 years ago they made it so you had to pre qualify to monday qualify.

Then they added the pre-qualifier to Q-School. (Which I actually liked)

But now this is a little too much.

Both changes added access for "average joes" now anyone with a 4 handicap can try to qualify for the Byron Nelson. How would you recommend to run a 300 player monday qualifier

 

I think this is a poor move by the PGA Tour and will only help the European Tour because now it might be cost worthy to go that route. The European Tour is already gaining a lot of ground on the PGA.

 

I wouldn't be as bitter if they would have atleast left 10 spots. A chance to get there. It just seems less productive to spend 15K going through Q school to get Nationwide status and battling a year to get PGA tour status.

This is the reality already. Out of thousands who start off at 1st stage only 25 make straight to the show. And those 25 almost all come from players who were exempt all the way to finals, such as players 126-200 on this years money list.

The fact is recent PGA tour members who don't have cards end up being the 25, not mini tour pros who start at 1st stage.

Looks like this year will be the last hurrah followed by a sprint to maintain your card.

There are 50 cards available now through the Nationwide. If your'e good enough to make cuts on the PGA you should have no problem monday qualify for a few nationwide events and earn your way into the top 50. worst case you go to q school and spend one year on Nationwide.

The fact is a card wouldnt do most mini tour pros any good anyway because you have to make cut to get paid. If you are good enough to make cuts, you already have a card

Time for the pub.

No argument from me on this one

 

Well, just to clarify. I did state I was being bitter at the moment

 

But most of my comments were stated with mini tour, small time professionals, and recent collegiate grads trying to make it in mind.

The monday qualifier change did allow the average joe the ability to try but it somewhat hurt the thousands of mini tour and small time playing professionals. It's alot more difficult to shoot two rounds in a row in the low 60's than it is to shoot 1. I think in order to control the fields they should have tightened down the requirements and or raised the fees.

 

Also, it may be easy to say that if you are good enough to make cuts that you could easily go to a few nationwide qualifiers and gain some sort of status. But in reality, it doesn't really work that way. For one thing, to monday qualify, you typically have to shoot in the mid to low 60's. Then when you get in, you need to finish in the top 20 to actually pay for your week. Now yes you will probably be thinking most guys that can make it should be able to shoot in the low 60's all the time, but that is really not the case. Most professionals that make it are consistent with an average of 68-70. Sub 65 is a rare and much appreciated round. When you are in a full field of mini-tour, partial status, good amateurs going for a couple spots. Its a bit difficult. Doable but difficult and requiring one of those rare rounds.

 

But my overall premise was to convey that it was enjoyable that you actually had a chance to get a pga tour card by going through q-school. I agree that most of the 25 every year that obtain their cards were already nationwide or pga tour members, but not all of them. I also agree that most that succeed their first year on the pga tour come from some other major tours, but again, not all of them. I think one of my better examples would be Streels. He played the gateway, went to Q-School and has been doing great on Tour. Yes it doesn't happen with all of them, but at least they have a chance.

 

I idea that you had a chance to go from small time right to the big show always seemed to fit right in with what America was built on. It was more of a method of giving hope and driving inspiration because it said you could do it.

 

As I said, I am just a little bitter at the moment. I just wish they would have left a few PGA Tour spots in the q-school, I think it would have benefited both tours.

 

I really hope the USGA doesn't see this and start limiting the openness of the US Open.

 

 

[kellygreen]

[quote name='mihi4' timestamp='1332324409' post='4548686']
To me, it's a way to keep "the guys together", as long as possible, without interruption from the outside.
Sad, in my eyes.
The ones already making a lot of money without being at the top, will stay there without needing to perform...

just my 2cents
[/quote]


Actually, I'd say it is 180* the opposite.

This makes it harder for underperforming pros to stay at the PGA Tour level, and helps to preserve the quality of golf being played on Tour.

The truth has been for many years now that the Nationwide Tour grads (as a group) do consistently better on Tour the following year than those who earn their status through Q-school. Which is why the number of cards being award via the NWT has steadily been going up...and those from Q-school going down.

The reason why is clear. In order to be one of the top finishers after a season on the NWT, you have to be playing high quality golf for a significant part of the season. Whereas you can sneak your way though Q-school simply by being fortunate enough to "get hot" the weeks the qualifiers are held. The former player is much more likely (and the record shows it) to retain his card, than the latter player.

I think this will be an excellent way of moving a lot of the "journeyman" deadweight hanging around the periphery of the PGA Tour down ot the Nationwide tour, and force more of the young players coming up to work their way up through the NWT...so that they are ready for the big time when they finally earn their card.

In short, it turns the NWT into the sort of true "minor league"/developmental system that baseball and hockey have.

[Aithos]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1332358452' post='4551458']
[quote name='mihi4' timestamp='1332324409' post='4548686']
To me, it's a way to keep "the guys together", as long as possible, without interruption from the outside.
Sad, in my eyes.
The ones already making a lot of money without being at the top, will stay there without needing to perform...

just my 2cents
[/quote]


Actually, I'd say it is 180* the opposite.

This makes it harder for underperforming pros to stay at the PGA Tour level, and helps to preserve the quality of golf being played on Tour.

The truth has been for many years now that the Nationwide Tour grads (as a group) do consistently better on Tour the following year than those who earn their status through Q-school. Which is why the number of cards being award via the NWT has steadily been going up...and those from Q-school going down.

The reason why is clear. In order to be one of the top finishers after a season on the NWT, you have to be playing high quality golf for a significant part of the season. Whereas you can sneak your way though Q-school simply by being fortunate enough to "get hot" the weeks the qualifiers are held. The former player is much more likely (and the record shows it) to retain his card, than the latter player.

I think this will be an excellent way of moving a lot of the "journeyman" deadweight hanging around the periphery of the PGA Tour down ot the Nationwide tour, and force more of the young players coming up to work their way up through the NWT...so that they are ready for the big time when they finally earn their card.

In short, it turns the NWT into the sort of true "minor league"/developmental system that baseball and hockey have.
[/quote]

+1 I agree completely. Not that I'm ever going to be good enough, but if I wanted to become a PGA tour player this wouldn't change my approach one bit. I'd rather play nationwide and be better prepared than fail on the PGA tour because I played out of my mind in q school.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Mrstealurgurl6969' timestamp='1332281745' post='4545592']
How does everyone feel about the new schedule change and no more q-school. Also the nationwide tour will have more affect and will no longer be called nationwide.
[/quote]

What about the impact on international players (Euro tour guys) who want to make the move to the PGA tour?

Guys like Thomas Bjorn, Ryo Ishikawa? Would we put Rory McIlroy through a year on the Nationwide?

[Aithos]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1332363997' post='4552066']
[quote name='Mrstealurgurl6969' timestamp='1332281745' post='4545592']
How does everyone feel about the new schedule change and no more q-school. Also the nationwide tour will have more affect and will no longer be called nationwide.
[/quote]

What about the impact on international players (Euro tour guys) who want to make the move to the PGA tour?

Guys like Thomas Bjorn, Ryo Ishikawa? Would we put Rory McIlroy through a year on the Nationwide?
[/quote]

That point isn't really valid, those types of players are the elite in other international tours and already have sponsors and exemptions. Then their play with exemptions gets them their card, you can't compare a prodigy with an average mini tour player hoping for the best few rounds of his life.

[vietnameeh]

i wonder if this will impact the mini and micro tours good/bad

maybe more attendance.. possibly higher payout due to more attendance etc... what do you guys think

possibly extinct micro tours..?

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1332364962' post='4552140']
That point isn't really valid, those types of players are the elite in other international tours and already have sponsors and exemptions. Then their play with exemptions gets them their card, you can't compare a prodigy with an average mini tour player hoping for the best few rounds of his life.
[/quote]

They have seven sponsors' exemptions. If they want to switch tours (from Europe to the PGA tour) they would have to either finish high enough on the money list (playing only seven events) or win an event outright.

The issue is really the 'prodigies' from other countries. The new structure encourages them to stay on the Euro tour until they qualify outright for their PGA card (by winning a major, etc.).

[Sooner7x]

I'm sorry but did Rory ever go to Q-school??

How would this change effect a player like him?????????????????

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Sooner7x' timestamp='1332367118' post='4552350']
I'm sorry but did Rory ever go to Q-school??

How would this change effect a player like him?????????????????
[/quote]

Well, Rory may be an extreme example, because he did win one of his sponsors' exemptions (giving him a card); and then his US Open win extends his card for a few years.

But Bae Sang-moon is a good example. 25 years old, won the money list on the Japan tour last year. Got his first PGA card this year at Q-School. Finished second in a playoff last week.

With the new rules, does he just stay in Japan or go to the Euro Tour instead of languishing on the Nationwide for a year?

[PGArox]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1332376383' post='4553070']
[quote name='Sooner7x' timestamp='1332367118' post='4552350']
I'm sorry but did Rory ever go to Q-school??

How would this change effect a player like him?????????????????
[/quote]

Well, Rory may be an extreme example, because he did win one of his sponsors' exemptions (giving him a card); and then his US Open win extends his card for a few years.

But Bae Sang-moon is a good example. 25 years old, won the money list on the Japan tour last year. Got his first PGA card this year at Q-School. Finished second in a playoff last week.

With the new rules, does he just stay in Japan or go to the Euro Tour instead of languishing on the Nationwide for a year?
[/quote]

Guys like Bae have at least two very good avenues to the PGA TOUR: With big-time success on either the Asian Tour, or the Japan Golf Tour, they are likely to receive sponsors' invitations, and may attempt to earn enough money to receive a Special Temporary membership, like Ryo Ishikawa. Or they could go for the Nationwide TOUR.

[El Segundo]

I like it as much as a skulled chip shot.

[eric_b]

From an idealist perspective....this kinda sucks. It does prevent the "tin cup" scenario....even though that was about open qualifying for the us open....but you get the point. Plus, final stage q school is arguably the best golf to watch all year.....i can't watch for more than an hour at a time because i'm starting to get nervous....how they hack it is beyond me.

but lets be real here, those that make it through q school are long shots anyway....as people have shown in this thread, the long shot qualifiers don't really survive on tour....generally, the NWT guys make it longer out on tour. In addition, q-school qualifiers are the guys from 126-200 on the money list anyway.

The european tour thing doesn't really factor....if you're in the top 50 in the world....you get more or less a free ride anyway.....and elite players will get on tour no sweat....this doesn't affect them....it only really affects the journeymen types....and as shown above, they rarely make long anyway.....and for every Ken Duke, there are hundreds of Ty Tryon....

Another point is....NWT is losing its sponser...i.e. nationwide insurance.....by doing this, it makes the tour much more appealing to future sponsors....sure, that seems like a slap in the face....but come on....business is business. You might as well cry about how arnold palmer's tournament is "the arnold palmer invitational brought to you by mastercard"....it is what it is.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Mrstealurgurl6969' timestamp='1332281745' post='4545592']
How does everyone feel about the new schedule change and no more q-school. Also the nationwide tour will have more affect and will no longer be called nationwide.
[/quote]

On a side note similar to my point above, will we lose young American talent to the European tour instead of the Nationwide? Will the Peter Uileins of the world go to the Nationwide Tour when they can likely make it onto the European Tour and play 7 PGA events with sponsors' exemptions?

[Sing Golfer]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1332365778' post='4552230']
[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1332364962' post='4552140']
That point isn't really valid, those types of players are the elite in other international tours and already have sponsors and exemptions. Then their play with exemptions gets them their card, you can't compare a prodigy with an average mini tour player hoping for the best few rounds of his life.
[/quote]

They have seven sponsors' exemptions. If they want to switch tours (from Europe to the PGA tour) they would have to either finish high enough on the money list (playing only seven events) or win an event outright.

The issue is really the 'prodigies' from other countries. The new structure encourages them to stay on the Euro tour until they qualify outright for their PGA card (by winning a major, etc.).
[/quote]

No real 'prodigies' have rushed to the PGA Tour anyway.

Rory, spent a good year in Europe before playing much in the US. Manassero is still in Europe.

At the end of the day, between up to; 3 majors, 3 WGC, seven sponsors invites - if you can't make enough money from these events as a gun from overseas then you are not really a gun.

And if you aren't...the PGA Tour can just give you a special exemption like they have done with Ishikawa in the hope he can make enough money to get into the top 125.