Moe Norman > Ben Hogan

[drewspin]

Moe Norman was one of the greatest strikers of rangeballs who ever lived, and a damned fine tournament golfer.
Ben Hogan was one of the greatest tournament golfers who ever lived, and a damned fine striker of range balls.

[MizunoJoe]

Moe said he once missed a fairway by hitting his drive OB.

[k001k47]

Guys, I know the secret: Moe and Ben both had three letter names! Go change your names to A$$ or sumthin... I'm planning on changing mine to Fat as I type!

[KYMAR]

[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1342653097' post='5303298']
Guys, I know the secret: Moe and Ben both had three letter names! Go change your names to A$$ or sumthin... I'm planning on changing mine to Fat as I type!
[/quote]

Horrible post Fat.

[KYMAR]

Moe>rain man

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1342650760' post='5302890']
[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1342649773' post='5302676']
Hogan was known for [u]his fade[/u], correct? Moe was known for hitting it dead [u]straight[/u], correct?

[b]The straight shot is [size=6]harder[/size] to hit compared to a fade([size=6]period[/size])[/b]

All other achievements aside. Moe's SWING wins [size=6][u][i][b]IMO[/b][/i][/u][/size].


[/quote]

Dude why are you yelling?
[/quote]

To prove a point without having my words taken out of context. No comment on my last statement?

Thrillhouse, can we agree a straight shot is harder to hit than a fade or even a draw? I believe Nelson said it was the most difficult shot in golf.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

Which is harder , hitting it straight with 0 wins on Golf's biggest stage or 9 Major Championship wins on that very stage? It doesn't matter how he hit it, just how many times he needed to hit it, straight or not. [u][i][b]Case closed.[/b][/i][/u]

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1342654935' post='5303588']
Which is harder , hitting it straight with 0 wins on Golf's biggest stage or 9 Major Championship wins on that very stage? It doesn't matter how he hit it, just how many times he needed to hit it, straight or not. [u][i][b]Case closed.[/b][/i][/u]
[/quote]


A little closed minded perhaps? Hitting a straight shot is hard regardless if it's at the U.S. open
or in front of your mom.

I'm trying to get into the specifics on each of their swings, but instead we keep bringing up their careers.

The closest we got was shoulder plane vs elbow plane.

Dead straight vs Hogan fade is my argument. Moe's swing has a more grounded DTL release - that's my educated guess as to why Moe hit it straighter than Hogan.

[KYMAR]

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1342655806' post='5303720']
[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1342654935' post='5303588']
Which is harder , hitting it straight with 0 wins on Golf's biggest stage or 9 Major Championship wins on that very stage? It doesn't matter how he hit it, just how many times he needed to hit it, straight or not. [u][i][b]Case closed.[/b][/i][/u]
[/quote]


A little closed minded perhaps? Hitting a straight shot is hard regardless if it's at the U.S. open
or in front of your mom.

[b]I'm trying to get into the specifics on each of their swings[/b], but instead we keep bringing up their careers.

The closest we got was shoulder plane vs elbow plane.

Dead straight vs Hogan fade is my argument. Moe's swing has a more grounded DTL release - that's my educated guess as to why Moe hit it straighter than Hogan.
[/quote]

But that's not what you are doing. You are not discussing swings. You are discussing how difficult it is to hit a straight shot and how much better Moe was at doing so. With that undeniable fact about what you have said, you should NOT be surprised when you get a bunch of responses in unison asking "Who cares?" Because frankly, no one does. Especially in the harsh light of reality that you aren't merely conversing and discussing. You clearly have an ax to grind. And that Ax is some fruitless effort to convince en mass that, as [b]YOUR TITLE [/b]states, Moe > Hogan. If it weren't enough to alienate people by your piss poor attitude, the rationale you are using to defend that stance is laughable and complete speculation that you can't prove. The idea that Ben Hogan couldn't hit a ball straight when needed is just plain stupid. The idea that comparing the accomplishments of the two men on golfs biggest stages and most challenging tests is somehow not relevant makes engaging you further in an actual discussion or friendly debate 100% pointless.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

[color=#FFFFFF]case closed[/color]

[JBOMB808]

GOLF SWING, the minute details of their swings. I apologized about the title already and I edited my initial post, but Moe hit it straighter than Hogan. I have no evidence to prove it. Only what the greats of the game have said about Moe. No one has evidence to disprove it either. We keep coming back to careers. As far as my attitude, I'm very open-minded, but when we try to take Moe down a peg with his personality and that he never won on the PGA tour. That's discriminating Moe and discrediting all his achievements.

(I'll bring it back.)

Young Moe vs Hogan

Their anchored Right foot. Moe later on kept it planted - I hypothesis that's what enabled him to be straighter. Enjoy the greats' footwork!

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiBX1LnOWCI[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0H7PJ0ZGys[/media]

[JBOMB808]

And now for the grand finale. Old Hogan resembling Older Moe's grounded release.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UKNmP9taPA[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=P7caQrfIf6o[/media]

2:29
"Now I know I got the best swing in golf ever... ...better than Hogan's..."

[KYMAR]

By "grand finale" do you mean you're done with this exercise?

[tylerdurden]

Moe was a cool dude but Batman I mean Hogan would hurt his feelings on the course. I didn't hear of Hogan carrying around Moe flip books.

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1342660077' post='5304252']
By "grand finale" do you mean you're done with this exercise?
[/quote]
No comment on the video? It's ok. I wouldn't have anything to say either if Moe just said his swing was better than Hogan's. LOL!

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1342660228' post='5304270']
Moe was a cool dude but Batman I mean Hogan would hurt his feelings on the course. I didn't hear of Hogan carrying around Moe flip books.
[/quote]
Moe learned from Ben that's for sure. You can't deny skill though. Moe had it.

[k001k47]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1342653257' post='5303332']
[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1342653097' post='5303298']
Guys, I know the secret: Moe and Ben both had three letter names! Go change your names to A$$ or sumthin... I'm planning on changing mine to Fat as I type!
[/quote]

Horrible post Fat.
[/quote]

I think it's a horrible thread. It calls for a horrible post. I'm sorry if you don't like it.

Ben Hogan and Moe Norman's swings were incredibly different, but they were both great strikers of the golf ball. You can't teach a great set of hands. Like Moe said, "Just put this dumb guy onto that dumb guy...into that dumb guy... into that dumb guy."
If Moe could truly hit it straight every single time, I hope that wasn't his intention on every shot. Aiming straight at the target into every single kind of wind; into every single pin location; off every single lie angle; is just plain stupid.
Moe>Ben Yeah, I agree. Moe does appear quite a bit larger than Ben, especially later in life. This is my opinion on subject, OP, even if you are just trolling. I don't think I should type about swing mechanics because it'd probably all be bs. My initial post still stands though. Why are you posting in a Hogan forum? Is this just a "Moe's swing can beat up Ben's swing!" deal?

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1342661430' post='5304428']
Ben Hogan and Moe Norman's swings were incredibly different, but they were both great strikers of the golf ball. You can't teach a great set of hands. Like Moe said, "Just put this dumb guy onto that dumb guy...into that dumb guy... into that dumb guy."
If Moe could truly hit it straight every single time, I hope that wasn't his intention on every shot. Aiming straight at the target into every single kind of wind; into every single pin location; off every single lie angle; is just plain stupid.
Moe>Ben Yeah, I agree. Moe does appear quite a bit larger than Ben, especially later in life. This is my opinion on subject, OP, even if you are just trolling. I don't think I should type about swing mechanics because it'd probably all be bs. My initial post still stands though. Why are you posting in a Hogan forum? Is this just a "Moe's swing can beat up Ben's swing!" deal?
[/quote]

Please do talk about swing mechanics. I really would greatly appreciate it. That is where I want a discussion. I know being in a Hogan forum, it would be silly of me for people here not to be bias towards Hogan's swing, however, humor me a little and tell me what exactly makes Hogan's swing superior to Moe's. If you haven't watched that last youtube vid yet please do. Moe makes a comment about Hogan's swing taking more effort. Comments?

[KYMAR]

[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1342661430' post='5304428']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1342653257' post='5303332']
[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1342653097' post='5303298']
Guys, I know the secret: Moe and Ben both had three letter names! Go change your names to A$$ or sumthin... I'm planning on changing mine to Fat as I type!
[/quote]

Horrible post Fat.
[/quote]

I think it's a horrible thread. It calls for a horrible post. I'm sorry if you don't like it.

Ben Hogan and Moe Norman's swings were incredibly different, but they were both great strikers of the golf ball. You can't teach a great set of hands. Like Moe said, "Just put this dumb guy onto that dumb guy...into that dumb guy... into that dumb guy."
If Moe could truly hit it straight every single time, I hope that wasn't his intention on every shot. Aiming straight at the target into every single kind of wind; into every single pin location; off every single lie angle; is just plain stupid.
Moe>Ben Yeah, I agree. Moe does appear quite a bit larger than Ben, especially later in life. This is my opinion on subject, OP, even if you are just trolling. I don't think I should type about swing mechanics because it'd probably all be bs. My initial post still stands though. Why are you posting in a Hogan forum? Is this just a "Moe's swing can beat up Ben's swing!" deal?
[/quote]

Relax francis! I was kidding!

[KYMAR]

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1342661097' post='5304378']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1342660077' post='5304252']
By "grand finale" do you mean you're done with this exercise?
[/quote]
No comment on the video? It's ok. I wouldn't have anything to say either if Moe just said his swing was better than Hogan's. LOL!

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1342660228' post='5304270']
Moe was a cool dude but Batman I mean Hogan would hurt his feelings on the course. I didn't hear of Hogan carrying around Moe flip books.
[/quote]
Moe learned from Ben that's for sure. You can't deny skill though. Moe had it.
[/quote]

Really? now you are in to the "HA! I KNEW IT" thing because I didn't respond to your video of that creepy little man hitting balls? I didn't comment because i didn't watch it, I didn't watch it, because I don't care. This shouldn't be this hard to comprehend.

We get it, you like Moe. Congrats

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1342662879' post='5304650']
Really? now you are in to the "HA! I KNEW IT" thing because I didn't respond to your video of that creepy little man hitting balls? I didn't comment because i didn't watch it, I didn't watch it, because I don't care. This shouldn't be this hard to comprehend.

We get it, you like Moe. Congrats
[/quote]

Ignorance is bliss. Don't watch it. You might not like what you hear, the sound of a golfball being compressed properly.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

[color=#FFFFFF]case closed[/color]

[svsvincenzo]

I admire Moe's ballstriking as well. But his method is so difficult. One thing I'd say Moe's most important secret is--he had the quickest brain processing ever. He could time the face being square at impact. And I don't think he's holding off at all. His clubface opens and closes real fast.

Maybe a video of Moe's is in order from his fans.

[KYMAR]

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1342663182' post='5304712']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1342662879' post='5304650']
Really? now you are in to the "HA! I KNEW IT" thing because I didn't respond to your video of that creepy little man hitting balls? I didn't comment because i didn't watch it, I didn't watch it, because I don't care. This shouldn't be this hard to comprehend.

We get it, you like Moe. Congrats
[/quote]

Ignorance is bliss. Don't watch it. You might not like what you hear, the sound of a golfball being compressed properly.
[/quote]

Youre just a troll with an agenda.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='drewspin' timestamp='1342649089' post='5302516']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1342634149' post='5300602']
One of the regular posting members of this board has about twice as many professional wins as Moe and a major championship and that's no fluke! You can even take lessons from him. But I don't see anybody worshipping at his altar. Maybe he should have lived out of his car and rotted his teeth with coke, would have added to his mystique!
[/quote]

Actually, he hit balls with Moe too.

For real, I do say a word of thanks at the serendipitous ways the world -- and quite often -- for finding the abiding truth of his instruction, and if that constitutes worshipping at his altar, well dunk me in that river and let me swim upstream... I will leave it to those more authoritative than me to define whether I am a worshipper.

But, I am not afraid to say it: [b]Fats is The Man![/b]
[/quote]

Lol...+1

[Arafel]

[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1342664050' post='5304858']

[attachment=1263936:archie.jpg]
[color=#FFFFFF]case closed[/color]
[/quote]

I love Archie.

[svsvincenzo]

Ok guys, let's give Moe's swing a try.

He sets up as far from the ball as possibly can in order to widen his clubhead arc and keep the clubhead as close as possible to the baseline/targetline. He needed it because his clubface was closing at the fastest possible rate of closure ever seen in pro golf. So thee getting the ball as far as possible is something needed to offset this fastest rate of closure. In short, his clubface is square at the targetline at the shortest time ever in the history of golf. With the same objective, he also widened his stance and locked his knees so that the low point or that infiniteissimal moment the his face is square will not move off the ball. He also didn't move the feet, legs and hips as much as possible for the same objective. And lastly, he used his very fast brain processing to time that infiniteissimal moment of squareness of his clubface at impact.

Now, why would anybody try to do that? There's a reason why no pro golfer had used his method. In Hogan's case, it's galaxies different.

[drewspin]

IMO, You are totally off base on the face rate closure thing.

Moe and hogan both controlled face rate closing VERY well, both had a huge range at the bottom of the arc where the club face was closing slowly when the wanted to hit those laser straight shots.

go find the slo mo video of Moe's left arm movements through impact.. Its on on YouTube.

[k001k47]

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1342662450' post='5304568']
Please do talk about swing mechanics. I really would greatly appreciate it. That is where I want a discussion. I know being in a Hogan forum, it would be silly of me for people here not to be bias towards Hogan's swing, however, humor me a little and tell me what exactly makes Hogan's swing superior to Moe's. If you haven't watched that last youtube vid yet please do. Moe makes a comment about Hogan's swing taking more effort. Comments?
[/quote]

I would, but I'd make a fool of myself. I'll leave the position stuff to more learned folks. As far as what Moe says... well, I take a lot of things he says with a grain of salt. Case and point: [url="http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/myshot_gd0411?currentPage=1"]http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/myshot_gd0411?currentPage=1[/url] He wasn't 'right in the head'; if he was, he probably would have made a better career on the PGA tour...then again, he probably wouldn't have been as great a golfer if he was normal. However, Moe is completely right about Hogan's swing taking more effort. One of Hogan's philosophies about his swing was that the more pressure he put on it, the better it was. He also goes on to reveal in 5L that one of his swing thoughts is to go at it with everything he's got. I don't know what Moe is going on about in that video. Maybe he just didn't understand how Hogan was such a great ball striker with such an aggressive swing.

[JBOMB808]

Now we're talking.

Hogan also had a wide stance as per George Knudson, which I feel relates to lengthening the distance the clubhead is level with the ball and square into and AFTER impact. Clubface closure for Moe and Ben was slow post-impact which is the foot for so after the ball. It's like shutting a door. The furthest it closes a foot after you've made contact is square.

[k001k47]

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1342668011' post='5305470']
Now we're talking.

Hogan also had a wide stance as per George Knudson, which I feel relates to lengthening the distance the clubhead is level with the ball and square into and AFTER impact. Clubface closure for Moe and Ben was slow post-impact which is the foot for so after the ball. It's like shutting a door. The furthest it closes a foot after you've made contact is square.
[/quote]

I think the clubface past impact had more to do with what both golfers felt they were doing through impact. Hogan shows, in the Coleman, video that the right hand pushes toward the target, and Moe says in the article I linked that his right hand feels like a claw gathering the ball up (no hinging or suppination etc.)through impact. Two very similar feeling IMO