Ultimate R & D- Looking for design inspiration

[TheMachinist]

(Rambeling)

 

I have been involved in the golf world for nearly 13 years now. Been a putter enthusiast since the begining. Stamping, torching, bending, you name it, I can do it.( after ruining others clubs, you learn quick) Played junior golf/college golf, and now I play little golf. I spend my days cooped up in a small machine shop. I make parts for my own company, as well as others.

 

I have a brand new HAAS CNC, and enough stock to make my first run of heads. I have all the tools to design and manufacture right at my fingertips.

 

I tell you all of this not to brag or advertise for some product, but simply to ask for your help.

 

Im looking for ideas and suggestions for putters. I want to do this right.

 

***********( IMPORTANT STUFF) ***********

What would you do and or implement in your own putter designs?

 

 

What do you like and not like about milled putters?

What models and or styles do you like best? (shapes or look)

Do you prefer deep milling, grooves, etc.

Weights?

Lines?

Dots, curly Q's, smiley faces

 

What ever kids like these days

 

(More Rambeling)

 

I have my own opinions and design ideas, but if I ever decide to offer an item, or even give it away. I think it's best to hear what you guys have to say. After all, I want others to be able to love them as much as I do.

 

Lets get the creative juices flowing. I'll post some pictures along the way. I'll also answer almost any question. Yes, even if it is "how does Scotty do that"

 

Thanks

[tommyrobson]

[color=#282828]What do you like and not like about milled putters?[/color]
[color=#282828][b]I like the feels, and I dislike the price of most milled putters[/b][/color]
[color=#282828]What models and or styles do you like best? (shapes or look)[/color]
[b][color=#282828]Anser styling is always liked, blades of any kind can't be called ugly[/color][/b]
[color=#282828]Do you prefer deep milling, grooves, etc.[/color]
[b][color=#282828]Deep Milling [/color][/b]
[color=#282828]Weights?[/color]
[b][color=#282828]Yes!![/color][/b]
[color=#282828]Lines?[/color]
[b]Sight Lines yes, on the top of the putter not on the flange[/b]
[color=#282828]Dots, curly Q's, smiley faces[/color]
[color=#282828][b]leave it for custom orders[/b][/color]

[color=#282828]Good luck with your project man!![/color]

[RookieBlue7]

You'll almost certainly need to have an Anser head shape. Offer variety in necks, such as plumbers necks with half and full shaft offset, zero offset necks, flow necks, shaft into head, center shafted (on a spud or shaft in head), etc. That should be your primary design to offer variety from (maybe even a swappable neck). From there you can offshoot to mallets with similar styling, or TPA XVIII, etc. do crazy head shapes work? As far as usage goes yes, selling? Eh. I wouldn't go nuts till I had established a solid name and such. I'd also pay close attention to details such as sweet spot orientation, weighting, toe hang, etc. Those are important to any putter whore. The more you offer the larger your audience can be.

Another thing that'd be cool that not many do often? A 3/4 or mini sized putter. Sure, several do offer them, but they're special run or special order. No one offers them as a standard run though. That'd be something awesome if executed, especially if we Centershaft users were shown some love with a CS Anser shaped mini.

[moocherpix]

Be unique. Step out and bring something to market other than another Anser putter. Not sure how your drum beats, but let it carry a new tune, not the same old song.
Use some exotic materials, titanium, tungsten, molybdenum, you tell me.
Go outside the box and show us what you can do. I see that you have chosen to keep your name to yourself. Odd, but understandable if you are trying to show what you can do before you let on who you are.
On a side note, nice post for a second time poster. Did you realize that doing market research is sort of against the rules of the forum? Hope that you are successful in your quest, but just having a CNC does not a putter-maker make.
Nick

[TheMachinist]

I choose to keep my name to myself, because I make some products for the golf world. This has nothing to do with business. This is more personal and a passion of mine. No I'm not Ronald McDonald, just a guy who knows and loves putters.


You guys are telling me things that are generic. I'm looking for like specific things. Right now I'm working on a cross between a Del Mar and a 009. Classic anser lines from above but with a wide body and half mallet look. Similar to the ping d66.

I have all sorts of ideas. I'm looking for the sure fire things you guys like. Not generic... Specific.

One of my favorite things is a sight line on the top line of the putter. Promotes better depth and alignment. Also, bettinardi makes some of the best (if not the best) products there are. However, his stuff doesn't match Scotty's cosmetics. So I prefer bright clean finishes like RJB, but I add my own stampings.

Im not doing market research. I'm really and truly trying to start topics and discussions about what people like and WHY they like them. Not just because someone tells you to.

And no having a cnc does not make the artisan, but I can assure you, not having one makes it tougher to make sweet stuff:).

[TRoc9892]

Give some of your models a high toe and I'll be a fan. Instant-class imo. My favorite and I think others'll agree.

[tommyrobson]

more specific hmm ok,
I prefer very firm heavy putters, but i usually add lead tape to a putter that works for me not look for a heavy putter.

Specific putters I like are: Scotty Laguna and Newport (not in black though), Betti BB5, BB8 and BB1F
Raw Steel Finishes are nice, and very plain bottoms, (so the exact opposite of the bottom of scottys)
I really like toe or heel stamps that are the companies logo.

[stage1350]

Develop a milling pattern that is unique. Bettinardi Honeycomb/FIT faces, Billings VMG, LaJosi Lizard pattern, Byron Twilight Zone, etc. Not to take away from basic fly milling, but it doesn't distinguish you from the pack.

You have to mill an Anser style. What tends to separate the wheat from the chaff are the details. The keyhole cavity versus a box or oval. The shaping and mill marks on the bumpers and shoulders. The topline and face thickness. The ability to mill a floating face. Byron's DH-89 is a perfect example. There are plenty of Ansers out there, but the Byron just seems to have gotten everything right.

Mill an 8802 style. The shapes and curves are what will show your skills as a machinist and designer. For me, the Bettinardi design looks "right." It was shown in the 1995-1996 Cameron Napa, the Tad Moore Tour Classic and Barn Find, the Teardrop TD-42, as well as Bettinardi's BB2. The curves, the slope of the back flange, the offset, the bend of the neck, the undercut of the flange. If you can develop a good CNC of this style, you will show your mad skills.

Pick some exotic materials. Everyone is milling carbon and stainless. But people treasure copper billet, damascene steel, tungsten weights, and special inserts.

When you do use carbon and stainless, create unique finishes. I love copper plated carbon steel. PVD looks outstanding on stainless. Again, while a satin milled stainless putter can be stunning due to simplistic beauty, everyone does it. Separate yourself from the pack.

Have the ability to use different necks on the same body. Byron is a master at this. You can get a DH-89 body with a plumbers neck, flow neck, long neck, long plumber neck, center spud, double bend, and swan neck. Then, you only need to CNC 4-5 body styles (Anser, Zing, TPA XVIII, Mills One, 8802) and custom fit the the customer. Plus, you can show your welding skills.

If you can do custom engraving instead of just stamping, you open youself up to custom patterns and larger orders for companies and outings. Kevin Colbert is a good example of this.

And build for lefties beyond just an Anser style.

[stage1350]

Addendum:

Don't underestimate the importance of shafts and grips. The difference between stepped, stepless, and fluted is huge. Where the right shaft can make a putter perform perfectly, the wrong shaft can make a putter feel like a$$.

Grip shape is also critical. I can't tell you how many Winn Medalist and Gripmaster pistol grips I've pulled from putters I own because I hate the pistol profile. You will have loyalists to the Pro Only/Pingman grip. I've worked for the last 3 years to get enough LLRC round paddle underlistings to cover my collection because no other grip feels right to me.

Consider leaving your CNCs heavy if you are going to weld your own necks. As you adjust for length, offset and lie, you can grind for weight and to ensure that the putter sits square at address. That's a major issue on Anser style putters when they get adjusted for loft/lie.

[tommyrobson]

also, people love it when their new putter comes with a head-cover, so maybe look into getting a head-cover with your "logo" on it

[oneaugusta]

Look at some of the original work Lamont does, he has many really good designs. All good designs don't have to be Anser style, one of my favorites is the softail design by David Mills. As far as milling goes that I would stick with traditional milling like Byron's tuna milling or like Lamonts milling. To deep and you lose the feel of the face, I like medium depth with a good soft carbon head. Material makes alot of difference too, there are many types of Carbon steel and many grades of stainless, choose wisely! Price range $200 to $500 is on par.

[bennyblanco]

My input as a lefty putter:

Have at least one Lefty model in a traditional style (probably anser-esque for the first one but hopefully add more blades and mallets as you progress)

You're already in a niche market-- establishing yourself as lefty friendly in a world where custom putter guys don't have the word LEFT on their websites... you may just find yourself in a niche-en-niche= where you need to be.

My thoughts and design suggestions for lefty putters after my own trail and error:

Most lefties are right-eye dominant and will make more putts using something with LESS offset (3/4 shaft or less-- bringing the ball/topline closer to the right eye). The one thing I hate is looking down at the singular lefty-offered model (scotty ahem) and having no consistent way to align myself physically and visually to the ball and line (just a generalization).

Shapes I've noticed that are loved more dearly by lefty putter geeks (like me): Anser 4, Zing for blades, #9 style mallets and heel or slightly less than center shafted (double-bend) shaft models with little to no offset.

Another thing I benefit from personally (I'm sure some will agree)-- bringing the alignment aid all the way to the ball-- and/or-- using a thin topline to maximize it's visual transition into the apex of the ball. It happens to me a lot with non-lefty/cross-eye dominant putters: stepping up to a putt and landing yourself in a perfect setup position... except that alignment aid is stuck behind an overly thick topline (making you loose confidence in alignment when you should have just rolled the ball). Alignment aids I like are the classic Mills oval, several Odyssey anser versions and early MagBrnze PING stuff with just the alignment slot on top. Not a huge fan of the sight dot unless it's not perfectly circular. This whole point will be less important if you emphasize the reduced offset design.

Make something like or close to that and I'll buy two. Make a 350 gram copper head and I'll buy 10. nothing like copper. I'll just throw this in: Lefty Bullseye double-wide in satin copper with a flange. I'll take anyone's money with that.

Just my two cents. Hope all is well and keep us informed!

[Ranger Rick]

Heavy and soft. I like a semi-mallet with softer edges. Like the old Scotty Fastbacks. Face milling is another area. Don't do the stock stuff. Make it interesting. Maybe the Yes! groove pattern milled into a head would be great. Also as everyone says, mess around with materials. Tungsten, Aluminium, Copper, Vanadium there are a whole bunch of options. Another idea might be to mill a certain head shape and then make inserts out of exotic materials. Might be more cost effective

[highergr0und]

One look I love that I've seen on a few customs is a plumbers neck with the shaft over the hosel instead of into it. I'm trying to find an example pic....

[SatelliteGuy]

A missing part of the putter market is truly customizable weights. 360's isn't heavy enough and those bazillion gram Heavy Putters are like wielding a club against the other cavemen. Try doing something unique or request based with weighting and Ill bet dollars to cents you find a market! ( I do use a Heavy Putter and wish I could find an awesome milled putter with just a LITTLE less flipping weight )

[spryevo]

Put a pocket in the face, so we can the face material to whatever we want.

[Ranger Rick]

[quote name='spryevo' timestamp='1350958057' post='5830803']
Put a pocket in the face, so we can the face material to whatever we want.
[/quote]

Like I said. Exotic inserts. Maybe you two could form a partnership? I just think it would be great to have options of different types of plastic, aluminium, carbon steel, stainless steel, carbon fibre, titanium, vanadium, copper, brass, nickel or tungsten.