Montys Thoughts

[animalistic]

Make the hole Bigger...your thoughts

Just throwing this out there......
Saw somewhere recently that Monty said that if he could do one thing to golf he would make the holes bigger and make golf less of a putting competition and bring the onus back on ballstriking and hitting fairways. What effects would this have on golf? Would it be good or bad? Would it be dramatic? Too dramatic? Are you in favour of it
I didnt hear much of the interview but I was just thinking if it wudnt be such a bad thing to increase hole diameter by a quarter of an inch or a half an inch
I know it almost certainly will never happen but I just wanna know your thoughts.... :superman: throwin it out there
:)

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

[gregflat9]

This thread is going to turn into an Anti-Monty thread... I can tell already!

[gregflat9]

And what he said, think Hogan said much the same.

 

He couldn't putt either.

 

It'll never happen but if it did Tiger would still be #1.

[dpwrx]

Already tried before and deemed a failure.

 

Golf Digest, May 2005 -- Johnny Miller's Column

(the Golfdigest site doesn't link to the story, but I have the issue in my house and I transcribed it below)

 

 

 

 

WHAT IF THE HOLE WERE A BIT WIDER?

 

I've always believed that there is too much premium placed on putting. Ben Hogan Hogan thought that way and so did Gene Sarazen. In the 1920's Sarazen lobbied to have the hole increased in diameter from 4 1/4 inches wide to eight inches. The experiment was tried and promptly deemed a failure [Please not that this emphasis was in the original story and not added by me], because it had the unintended effect of giving an even bigger advantage to the best putters.

 

My dad always said you judge the skill of a putter not by how many putts go in, but how many burn the edge of the hole. If they widened the hole tomorrow, Loren Roberts, Tiger Woods, and Phil Mickelson would run the tables every week.

 

There's no solution to the "problem." If we went the other way and made the hole smaller, the best putters would prevail that way, too."

[xal951]

what they should do is make the hole the size of those little game things you see on putting greens. Then it will bring out the best in the best putters.

 

Plus, whoever said golf is just a game of ball striking and hitting fairways. Last i checked about half my strokes are made on the putting surface

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

what they should do is make the hole the size of those little game things you see on putting greens. Then it will bring out the best in the best putters.

 

Plus, whoever said golf is just a game of ball striking and hitting fairways. Last i checked about half my strokes are made on the putting surface

 

?

[MTM]

I was going to quote the Johnny Miller article. I remember reading that as well.

 

You'd have to make it so much bigger to really make a difference it would be silly.

 

I like putting. I like the finality of it. You can hit a crappy tee shot, or approach, or pitch or chipand still recover, but a putt is either in or not.

[xal951]

what they should do is make the hole the size of those little game things you see on putting greens. Then it will bring out the best in the best putters.

 

Plus, whoever said golf is just a game of ball striking and hitting fairways. Last i checked about half my strokes are made on the putting surface

 

?

youve never seen those things on practice greens before. Its a hole that is just barely bigger than the ball and you make 3 from 1 foot, 3 from 2 feet, etc.

[poppyhillsguy]

I agree about the smaller hole but the flag stick wouldn't fit.

[dlygrisse]

Monty better hope they don't make the hole bigger, then the Americans might start winning the Ryder cup, then where would he be? Can't win a major, now he wouldnt be able to win the Ryder Cup, be careful what you wish for....................................................... :)

 

I actually like Monty, I think he is the best interview in the game of golf, if not sports, he is honest, well spoken, witty and tells you what he is thinking. As an American though, you have to love to hate him in the Ryder cup. Monty should learn to take that as a compliment, if people didnt hate him in the Ryder cup then it would mean he wasnt playing well.

[xal951]

I agree about the smaller hole but the flag stick wouldn't fit.

make the game even harder...NO FLAGSTICK!!!! :)

[dlygrisse]

what they should do is make the hole the size of those little game things you see on putting greens. Then it will bring out the best in the best putters.

 

Plus, whoever said golf is just a game of ball striking and hitting fairways. Last i checked about half my strokes are made on the putting surface

 

?

youve never seen those things on practice greens before. Its a hole that is just barely bigger than the ball and you make 3 from 1 foot, 3 from 2 feet, etc.

Yeah, I have seen them at one course, it is crazy how much harder it is when the hole is smaller, great practice technique though.

[bignose]

Cochrain and Stobbs in their book Search for the Perfect Swing talked about a study done with an 8 1/2 diamter hole. They concluded that a scratch golfer would save about 6 shots a round. They also found that three-putting is virtually eliminated. Here is a nice quote:

 

"...but the man who was putting well would still take fewer putts than the man who was putting badly. The latter would merely be 'twitching' on the six- to eight-footers instead of on the two- to three-footers as he does now; or not holing his share of the fifteen footers instead of not holing his share of the six-footers."

 

Basically, no real net difference is going to occur. It could be fun though, you could have significantly nastier greens, holes on much more significant slopes than you could today. The larger hole would balance out the troubles with very difficult hole placements.

[Geo]

Monty better hope they don't make the hole bigger, then the Americans might start winning the Ryder cup, then where would he be? Can't win a major, now he wouldnt be able to win the Ryder Cup, be careful what you wish for....................................................... :)

 

I actually like Monty, I think he is the best interview in the game of golf, if not sports, he is honest, well spoken, witty and tells you what he is thinking. As an American though, you have to love to hate him in the Ryder cup. Monty should learn to take that as a compliment, if people didnt hate him in the Ryder cup then it would mean he wasnt playing well.

 

I couldn't possibly agree with you any more. I absolutely love Monty's sense of humor. He is extremely clever, and handled himself extremely well after all the hubbub that put him on the Department of Homeland Security's watch list. I personally would love to see the size of the hole get bigger. My eyesight is getting poorer with each passing year and I personally would like to continue watching the ball roll past the hole for years to come. :superman:

[Hungsolo]

if the hole were bigger, I would feel more inadequate for each missed putt. Let's not do that to me.

[emc]

I agree with some comments made here that if you made the hole bigger evryone would make more putts. You' also see a lot more chip ins and holeouts from the fairway.

[Boba]

The only way to make golf less of a putting game is to bring back the stymie & that would suck. Besides I hate when you have an old hole plug in your line. I can't imagine an 8" man hole cover in between my ball & a hole 3 feet away. :)

[summit3907]

no question a larger hole would eliminate some of the benefit of being a good putter. not talking 1/4 -1/2 inch, but if the hole went up to 6-8 inches, basically anything inside 15 feet would be good (with a cup 8 inches wide, you could totally take the break out of every put and just kill it into the hole).

 

so the onus would be placed on good ball striking. suddenly, hitting it inside of 20 feet would be the key factor, so more conservative shotmaking from the tee might come into effect. this would shift the game from who makes the most putts from 8-15 feet to who hits the most approaches to inside 20 feet.

 

not saying which is better or more indicative of the most talented player, but no question making the hold bigger would reduce the importance of being a good putter.

[Coach]

I am actually a decent pool player, but put me on a snooker table (smaller pockets, bigger table) and I can't make a shot.

[sync71]

I don't think it would make much of a difference as far as competition. Because they people winning would still win and the people losing would still lose, just the scores would be lower. I like the smaller hole because it creates more of a challenge. You have to stick it closer then you would be with an 6"+ hole. Not that putting wouldn't be a challenge, I just don't think they should change it.

[mfo]

I would be against it. Putting is more of a test of nerves than any other shot in the game. You have to have total control of your emotions to make putts that matter. To me, the need to conquer your nerves in pressure situations is the major difference between golf and other sports, which are more reactive. It would also take some of the drama out of watching golf.

[Langlands]

Nicklaus said years ago that golf courses would be much different if the founders of the game had any idea what equipment would be available now. He reckoned they would be much longer with holes the size of buckets. I guess that Monty's thinking is not all that different to Hogan's years before.

[ce_me_golf]

Just throwing this out there......

Saw somewhere recently that Monty said that if he could do one thing to golf he would make the holes bigger and make golf less of a putting competition and bring the onus back on ballstriking and hitting fairways. What effects would this have on golf? Would it be good or bad? Would it be dramatic? Too dramatic? Are you in favour of it

I didnt hear much of the interview but I was just thinking if it wudnt be such a bad thing to increase hole diameter by a quarter of an inch or a half an inch

I know it almost certainly will never happen but I just wanna know your thoughts.... :D throwin it out there

:drinks:

Well for one it would open of huge debate between who are the best golfer before the "Expeanded Hole Era" versus those after it. And I agree with other posters. The advantage of a wider hole would definitely favor the better putters.

 

I think Monty is just trying to compensate for the fact that putting is just not the strongest part of his game.

[dlygrisse]

Here is a story I found on why the hole is the size that it is, it doesnt sound like the founding fathers put much thought into it

http://golf.about.com/od/historyofgolf/f/holesize.htm

[Big Ben]

Sure there is an answer to this question but bad putters won't like it; become a better putter or you aren't as good as the other guy; pretty simple. People can't accept that someone else is superior to them as it's human nature. I hate it when somebody tells me XYZ hits it better or putts it better; etc. When I'm in a tourney and get beat I never ever say "damn that guy is good; much better than me!" Hell no; I say "he got lucky, my shot ended up OB or whatever". Well that's BS, he was better and he beat me, period. Tiger is a better putter yes but mostly better everything...

[DaveyH]

I am actually a decent pool player, but put me on a snooker table (smaller pockets, bigger table) and I can't make a shot.

Same here.I think golf is fine how it is.I dont think its technology ruining the game as many people say its just people are more determined and many more people these days are introduced to golf at a young age such as tiger.The long hitting issue is because these people train to hit it big and are well built to hit a long ball, not because of the driver they hit it miles is it? All speculations to change golf should be rubbished!!

Maybe you wont all agree with me but if one thing changes it will effect some people more than others which just isnt fair to me.

[Langlands]

Just throwing this out there......

Saw somewhere recently that Monty said that if he could do one thing to golf he would make the holes bigger and make golf less of a putting competition and bring the onus back on ballstriking and hitting fairways. What effects would this have on golf? Would it be good or bad? Would it be dramatic? Too dramatic? Are you in favour of it

I didnt hear much of the interview but I was just thinking if it wudnt be such a bad thing to increase hole diameter by a quarter of an inch or a half an inch

I know it almost certainly will never happen but I just wanna know your thoughts.... :D throwin it out there

:drinks:

Well for one it would open of huge debate between who are the best golfer before the "Expeanded Hole Era" versus those after it. And I agree with other posters. The advantage of a wider hole would definitely favor the better putters.

 

I think Monty is just trying to compensate for the fact that putting is just not the strongest part of his game.

 

To be fair to big Colin, I think all he was doing was giving an honest answer to a question a journalist asked him - I haven't ever heard him mention this before, and don't think he's trying to start any type of crusade here to enlarge the size of golf holes.

[Columbo]

I can see what he is saying.... but its way to extreme.

[regrip]

I agree about the smaller hole but the flag stick wouldn't fit.

make the game even harder...NO FLAGSTICK!!!! :cheesy:

 

 

I personally feel if you played the game without a flagstick everyones scores would lower. I have done this a few times and scored very well. Simple reason...you aim for the middle of the greens and therefore your misses still have a chance to stay on the green just because of the sheer square footage of green available in every direction of the middle of the green. whooo now that was a run on :rolleyes: