KBS Tour V vs. Ping CFS: Who has compared them? Specifically, in X-flex...

I'm thinking of getting KBS Tour V X-flex in a set of Ping G30's to replace my Ping i20's with Ping CFS X-flex. I was talking to a Ping rep and they indicated hard stepping the CFS X twice will make the CFS and KBS Tour V X practically the same. The main reason driving my change is to bring down spin significantly. I know that hard stepping CFS X twice will make a difference, but I'm worried it won't be enough. Thus, my interest in Tour V's, especially with how accurate they seem to rate. At a $15/club up charge over CFS, I'm not concerned about price. I love the high launch of the CFS/i20 combo, just not the spin (unless I've got a tailwind and the greens are really firm, then it's great). For that reason, I'm not too interested in C-Tapers, although they are a consideration. I'm also considering DG Pro X100's.

For what it's worth, I plan to keep my Gorge wedges as is: 50º has CFS X straight-in, and the 54º and 60º have CFS X soft-stepped. I'm not sure what wedge I'll play -- the options are keep my i20 wedge with CFS X straight in or order a 47º Gorge (with what shaft) and bend it strong to 45.5º or 46º to gap it properly, or get the G30 wedge to match the other G30 irons. Initially, I plan to just keep the i20 and get a feel for the new shafts and G30 clubs and then decide if I want a change.

How will you hard-step CFS twice? I am playing DGX100 hard-stepped 1X and to do that I had to cut 1/2" off the tip of the taper tip PW and 9 iron shafts. To hard step twice I think you would be reaming out the PW, 9 and 8 iron heads.

[quote name='FiveOffTheTee' timestamp='1415990205' post='10447221']
How will you hard-step CFS twice? I am playing DGX100 hard-stepped 1X and to do that I had to cut 1/2" off the tip of the taper tip PW and 9 iron shafts. To hard step twice I think you would be reaming out the PW, 9 and 8 iron heads.
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Maybe so. The Ping rep specifically said that they recommend hard-stepping twice instead of just once if you are really looking for a change vs. straight-in since a one-step step is so subtle.

Do they make a specific wedge shaft? So you would have the same shaft in 8, 9, and wedges.

I have CFS X now. It looks like the same shaft/step pattern in my 2 wedges that are straight-in (i20 W, and 50 SS), and then a half-inch further up in my 2 wedges that are soft-stepped (54 and 60), so the last two are 9 iron shafts. Otherwise, the CFS X wedge shafts are the same as the 9 iron and up shafts, just with the shaft tip a half inch longer in each club.

FWIW, I decided to go with X100's straight in. Looked like about 500rpm less spin on a 7 iron than CFS X straight in with 2º lower launch angle, although this is comparing a 33º i20 7 iron/CFS X to a 30.5º G30 7 iron/X100. I really didn't need anything lighter than the CFS X (which are about 3-4g heavier than Tour V's, and only about 6-7g lighter than X100's -- remember Ping quotes their shaft weights at cut 6 iron length instead of raw).

[quote name='LCP' timestamp='1416608104' post='10485259']
FWIW, I decided to go with X100's straight in. Looked like about 500rpm less spin on a 7 iron than CFS X straight in with 2º lower launch angle, although this is comparing a 33º i20 7 iron/CFS X to a 30.5º G30 7 iron/X100. I really didn't need anything lighter than the CFS X (which are about 3-4g heavier than Tour V's, and only about 6-7g lighter than X100's -- remember Ping quotes their shaft weights at cut 6 iron length instead of raw).
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Thanks, didn't know that about Ping shaft weights.

DG X100 is about 15 grams heavier than CFS X. Big difference in feel.

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1416619393' post='10486049']
DG X100 is about 15 grams heavier than CFS X. Big difference in feel.
[/quote]

Actually, it's about 6 or 7. At cut 6 iron length, the X100 is 120-121 vs. 114 for CFS X. Ping quotes their weights differently (cut 6 iron length instead of raw uncut length). I was even weighing my old Cobra 6 iron with X100's and without taking apart all of the components, but instead estimating weight where necessary, this seems consistent, and is what the very experienced fitter at the store confirmed today when I mentioned it.

The i20 6 iron was actually heavier overall, even with very light heads thanks to a heavier grip.

Nope. I played CFS X for almost two years and every time I pick up a DG S300/X100 it feels like a lead pipe. The weight difference is way more than 6-7 grams. I even had a set of DG Pro's, which list at 120 grams, and they felt heavier than CFS X too.

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1416688099' post='10488739']
Nope. I played CFS X for almost two years and every time I pick up a DG S300/X100 it feels like a lead pipe. The weight difference is way more than 6-7 grams. I even had a set of DG Pro's, which list at 120 grams, and they felt heavier than CFS X too.
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They do feel like a lead pipe. That's because they're much heavier in the tip section. But if you weigh them (like I did, knowing club head and grip weights), and read all the published specs about actual weights of the shafts, you'll find they're only 6-7 grams heavier in total, even though they do feel like they're actually heavier than that.

Just weighed two wedges.

Ping Tour 54WS w/CFS X, D5 swingweight, ID8 360 grip

Cleveland RTX CB 56 w/DG Wedge shaft (S200), D4.5, GP Tour Velvet grip.

The Ping weighs 11 grams lighter. Add two grams since the S200 is lighter than S300/X100 and one gram to increase swingweight to make the clubs equal. Figure on 14 grams total difference. To be honest, I thought the weight difference would be more.

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1416695756' post='10489163']
Just weighed two wedges.

Ping Tour 54WS w/CFS X, D5 swingweight, ID8 360 grip

Cleveland RTX CB 56 w/DG Wedge shaft (S200), D4.5, GP Tour Velvet grip.

The Ping weighs 11 grams lighter. Add two grams since the S200 is lighter than S300/X100 and one gram to increase swingweight to make the clubs equal. Figure on 14 grams total difference. To be honest, I thought the weight difference would be more.
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Unless you know the head weights though, deriving head and shaft weight from swing weight is just guessing with different shafts. I know the head weights of my i20's, hopefully get the build sheet with head weights written on it for my G30's, they'll have the same grip and some but not every club is the same length, so I'll compare those when they come in, but that is several weeks out. I stick to what I've said though.

The Hireko shaft fitting addendum reports the measured weight of the 130g X100 shaft as 129.6g raw and 119.8g cut to play at a 38" 5-iron length. Ping's standard 6-iron length is 37.25". Ping has clearly stated the 114g (for X; 109g for S) shaft weight is for cut 6-iron length (note that golf shaft reviews lists CFS stiff -- the 109g shaft not the 114 x-stiff -- as weighing 107g in the 6 iron when measuring shaft weights throughout the set). Lengthening it from 37.25" to 38" is going to add ~2g to the 114g weight, putting the two shafts closer to only 5g apart in weight.

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1416688099' post='10488739']
Nope. I played CFS X for almost two years and every time I pick up a DG S300/X100 it feels like a lead pipe. The weight difference is way more than 6-7 grams. I even had a set of DG Pro's, which list at 120 grams, and they felt heavier than CFS X too.
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Is it with different heads though? Remember PING stock iron SW is D0, where most are around D2-3.

I always ask PING to custom SW to D3.

[quote name='LCP' timestamp='1416710111' post='10490143']
Unless you know the head weights though, deriving head and shaft weight from swing weight is just guessing with different shafts.
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The Ping head weight is heavier than the Cleveland, so that further highlights the weight difference between the shafts.

I don't have a loose CFS X, but have a CFS S, and a DG S300 wedge shaft. Both shafts are the same length.

CFS S wedge shaft - 99.5 grams
DG S300 wedge - 118 grams

Figure on CFS X weighing 5 grams heavier than CFS S and once again you wind up with roughly a 14 gram difference.

I'm more inclined to side with Nessism with the weight difference.

I'll revisit this thread once I pull my X CFS shafts but that's not likely to be until after the new year.

Nessism, I did weigh a lot of my new G30's and old i20's. Without pulling the shafts, and looking at the swing weight difference stated from Ping, I think the truth is between what I thought at 7g and you thought at 15g, and with differences between clubs of different lengths. Seeing your post in a current thread today made me think about what I tried to investigate a month or so ago.

Pulled a CFS X from a wedge tonight and weighed it up.

So building on earlier info...

[color=#282828]CFS S wedge shaft - 99.5 grams[/color]
[color=#282828]CFS X wedge shaft - 104.5 grams[/color]
[color=#282828]DG S300 wedge - 118 grams[/color]

Launch and spin kinda go hand in hand

Lighter weight equals higher launch and more spin usually..regardless of manufacturer

AFAIK the CFS is a parallel tip, descending weight (approx. 3g/inch) shaft. If memory serves, raw weight should be about 15g lighter than the corresponding DG. As with most .370 irons ,they result in a slightly flighted set, since the more flexible tip is shortened throughout. Launches fairly high and plays quite soft. Best advice: find a fitting center that has both shafts in the same head and find out what it does for YOUR swing. Since you're already talking to the rep, that shouldn't.t be a problem. Good luck.

[quote name='tx33' timestamp='1424764989' post='11016499']
AFAIK the CFS is a parallel tip, descending weight (approx. 3g/inch) shaft. If memory serves, raw weight should be about 15g lighter than the corresponding DG. As with most .370 irons ,they result in a slightly flighted set, since the more flexible tip is shortened throughout. Launches fairly high and plays quite soft. Best advice: find a fitting center that has both shafts in the same head and find out what it does for YOUR swing. Since you're already talking to the rep, that shouldn't.t be a problem. Good luck.
[/quote]

CFS is .355" taper tip.