Trackman experts: Based on these numbers, what adjustments should I make?

I finally got a chance to stripe a few 7-irons on a Trackman 4, and here are some numbers (data from two shots in post 28):

• Club speed — 95-96mph
  
• Ball speed — 122-129mph (awful smash factor)
  
• Launch angle — ~16º
  
• AoA — (-7º)
  
• Spin — 7400rpm (mostly with crappy range balls)
  
• Path to target — always within 1.5º either way, with an average very near the target
  
• Club to path — always within 1.5º with a majority under 1º
  
• Swing direction — (-7º) WAY left
  

Here's what jumps out at me:

• very poor smash factor, ball speeds should be in the mid-130s
  
• inconsistent spins—and thus inconsistent distances—due to poor smash factor
  
• my sense of the club path and the club face are very good and very consistent
  
• -7º AoA? That's absolutely TRENCHING it, wtf
  
• my swing direction blew the Trackman operator's mind—apparently no one is that far left
  

Even with my super-left swing direction, my path and face numbers were so steady! I'm not sure what to make of that.

I moved the ball back in my stance to try and get the swing direction more to the right, and I was able to hit a good ball at about -1.7º left (this felt like I was swinging right of right field).

Next, my AoA is too steep and greatly compromises my ability to hit good shots with any sort of consistency. Unfortunately, I got steeper as I moved the ball back in my stance and tried to get that swing direction working back to the right.

Based on professional smash factor numbers, Trackman says I should carry my 7-iron 193 yards. That seems a bit wild to me, and even though I feel like I crush the ball sometimes, I am nowhere near producing the smash factors necessary to pump the ball out there 193 yards with consistent spins.

(Apparently some pros with similar swing speeds have smash factors so high, their 7-irons would carry 201 yards. That is insane!)

So, what do you think? Should I not worry about the swing direction (which is really a measurement of the hips)? Should I focus on AoA instead? I definitely think the too-far-left swing direction promotes a lot of thin shots, and that is my most common miss on the course.

Personally, I am most disappointed in the terrible smash factor. My favorite thing about golf is the feeling of a ball that melts on the club face; with that in mind, I can't believe I am never operating in the optimal smash factor range!

I can only imagine what it must feel like to pure it ~8% better on every swing. Those guys really are good.

A couple things...

Swing direction is way left but 7 down is not that crazy. Lots of good ball strikers are 7 down with a 7 iron. Your vsp number must be pretty flat in order to get the path back to zero. With a 7 iron you shouldn't be looking at a 1 to 1 correlation of down to out.

Smash is not good.

Putting ball back does nothing directly to affect swing direction. Path yes but not swing direction. It might change your swing a little from some other aspects but the number itself would not be affected just by ball position all other things remaining the same.

Swing direction is not a measurement of the hips

What jumps out at me is what a friggin arsehole that I was, as I just used my divot, ball flight and Maddie’s eyes to get to a competitive +2.8??

I’m a simple minded mofo so any kind of data dump woulda caused a total mental meltdown?

193yd 7i???

Holy smokes, I only went 173, lol

Jesus, my Tour Bud only takes his 178-180

Nathan Smith rocks it 168-170, haha

The other thing that jumps out at me(besides I’m an arsehole?) is that I’m a dinosaur ?

Also, I see that you’re a 1.2~ so regardless of your self critique, you have to have a quality consistent reproducible swing and I would say that to get where I take it you wanna go, it’s not your physical game that’s gonna move ya to Plus.

Nope, and I don’t give a shat what the numbers say-

You’re a 1.2~!!!

TRUST Youself!!

TRUST the swing that got you to 1.2~!!!

And quit asking friggin strangers WTF you should do?

You’re at the door~

TRUST Yourself?

Go look at a video of Nathan Smith’s swing!!!

Seriously, do it please

Now imagine if he came in here anonymously and posted that swing!!!

Christ, he’s have friggin chops rippin him and offering advice??

He’s got FIVE USGA Titles, FOUR Masters Imvites and THREE Walker Cup appearances.

TRUST Yourslf Bro!!!

You got Game!!

If ya must, go find a quality Teacher to get ya through the door or take one of the guys here on the board.

Isaac, who’s at +4 whatever, lmao, has one and the guy’s helped him immeasurably(no, I’m not disclosing who though Isaac may).

Regardless, the very best to Ya?

Have a great season my Friend??‍♂️

Cheers?

RP

Richard,

I totally get your approach, and it was actually interesting to see the Trackman verify pretty much every conclusion I'd already come to on my own (biased heavily left, club face tends to be open relative to path—especially with longer clubs).

Bottom line? I can tell I'm not as efficient as I could be, and these numbers confirm that fact.

FWP, I'll try to get my swing plane numbers—I didn't think to look at those yesterday.

If swing direction doesn't measure hips, then what does it measure?

Richard,

 

I totally get your approach, and it was actually interesting to see the Trackman verify pretty much every conclusion I'd already come to on my own (biased heavily left, club face tends to be open relative to path—especially with longer clubs).

 

Bottom line? I can tell I'm not as efficient as I could be, and these numbers confirm that fact.

 

FWP, I'll try to get my swing plane numbers—I didn't think to look at those yesterday.

 

If swing direction doesn't measure hips, then what does it measure?

Swing direction is a measure of where the club is traveling when the angle of attack is zero. It can be right or left based on any number of reasons. It has nothing to do with the hips.

Swing direction is a measure of where the club is traveling when the angle of attack is zero. It can be right or left based on any number of reasons. It has nothing to do with the hips.

Interesting! I feel like a lot of pros have most of their swing occur in front of the golf ball (after impact), but most of mine seems to occur behind the ball (but with zero flipping—I'm just super right-side oriented). I wonder if this is a factor here, as this would certainly orient the HSP to the left.

And I just got my swing plane numbers—every swing was between 56º and 57º.

Related: I played clubs that were 4º flat during the final 4 months of 2017, but once I started suffering from miniscule toe-fats off winter hardpan, I switched back to more standard lie angles (0.5º flat).

Swing direction is a measure of where the club is traveling when the angle of attack is zero. It can be right or left based on any number of reasons. It has nothing to do with the hips.

Interesting! I feel like a lot of pros have most of their swing occur in front of the golf ball (after impact), but most of mine seems to occur behind the ball (but with zero flipping—I'm just super right-side oriented). I wonder if this is a factor here, as this would certainly orient the HSP to the left.

 

And I just got my swing plane numbers—every swing was between 56º and 57º.

 

Related: I played clubs that were 4º flat during the final 4 months of 2017, but once I started suffering from miniscule toe-fats off winter hardpan, I switched back to more standard lie angles (0.5º flat).

Ok so if you are 7 down with a swing direction of 7 left your plane would have to be 45 degrees to get the path back to zero. Path has to still be left. Definitely sounds like a spin out, wipe move from what you described (terrible diagnosis based purely on my interpretation of what you have said about your swing).

Definitely sounds like a spin out, wipe move from what you described (terrible diagnosis based purely on my interpretation of what you have said about your swing).

I do wipe it occasionally on poor swings, but this is relatively uncommon.

Honestly, I'm just thinning damn near everything right now. In baseball parlance, it seems as though I just need to keep my left shoulder in it longer.

You have video to go with the numbers? You're left but not crazy to just hit little cuts. The smash is slightly low. Might have to do with left but with out seeing it is just an educated guess

The Trackman operator has associated videos from yesterday, but I'm not gonna hassle him for 'em.

I make an ugly, terrible move, but I can golf my ball fairly well, so I don't worry too much about it.

I'm super flat on the way back with no wrist set at all, and then I reroute the club steeper for the downswing (the right shoulder kind of rolls up and over).

Based on some mirror work I did last night, it seems as though keeping the left shoulder and hip lower (especially in transition) makes this reroute less severe, and I at least felt like I had a bit more control through the strike zone.

Someone who knows more will probably correct me, but in my understanding you moving the ball back in your stance would actually--all else being equal--make the swing direction go even further left as it would require you to open your stance in order to impact the ball with a relatively neutral path to target. I would actually think that by putting the ball just a touch more FORWARD in your stance, you'd be less steep and your swing direction would be more neutral as you'd need to swing more from the inside to produce a neutral path to target.

Keeping in mind that you said you were hitting crappy range balls I wouldn't read too much into the ball speed/smash factor #s (especially if the normalisation feature has not been turned on or set properly).

Keeping in mind that you said you were hitting crappy range balls I wouldn't read too much into the ball speed/smash factor #s (especially if the normalisation feature has not been turned on or set properly).

This is a great point, but the guy I was working with hit a few balls and achieved a superior smash factor to me every time.

Trackman says he's operating at the low end of his optimal range (based on his SS); by contrast, Trackman says I am well below my optimal range.

I think this is all legit—I can tell I am not compressing the ball as well as I am capable.

Were you hitting off mats or grass? Do you know the loft of your 7i?

Were you hitting off mats or grass? Do you know the loft of your 7i?

Fresh rye grass. 34º 7-iron.

I will post the opposite response from Richard

I always thought my lefts were OTT until a trackman guru put me on there and my 8 irons, though carry 168, were from 14* inside out !!! MIND WAS BLOWN. And this guy spotted it before Trackman spat out the numbers. 4 previous top teachers did not see it. He saw my little lay off re-route at the bottom

Long story short I revamped my swing - after my light bulb moment - and I can now swing 1* left with my irons (Titleist fitting in Nov) after countless balls and really a re-jigged wider and more on plane backswing

And yes your smash can and must improve, I think my swing with a 7i was 92-93 and my carry is mid 170's. Driver in Nov was 109 with a carry of 274 if that helps as a reference in any way

Were you hitting off mats or grass? Do you know the loft of your 7i?

Fresh rye grass. 34º 7-iron.

In that case launch is pretty high, especially given you are hitting down 7 on it. Spin is pretty high as well with range balls, unless that's a normalised figure. Will leave it to someone more qualified to tell you why that may be.

Having trouble visualising what your swing must look like to produce those numbers...I'd think there has to be a little stall/flip action or something to present that much loft with such a descending AoA, but perhaps there is another explanation.

Gmr beat me to it. I was coming back to say that launchnis way too high for a 7 degree down AoA. Dynamic loft and spin loft are both going to be too high which could very easily explain a portion of the smash factor

I think you want spin a whisker under 7,000 with the 7i

Can't remember optimal launch #

What's a good smash factor with a 7 ... anybody?

I do remember my Titleist fitter said my spin numbers for driver and irons would be better with this year's new ProV1 (the former Prov1 left dot tour ball) vs. the Prov1x I normally use

Order 4 doz w my custom #

I'd think there has to be a little stall/flip action or something to present that much loft with such a descending AoA, but perhaps there is another explanation.

I've been "short-arming" it with the right arm (not extending it fully after impact), and my left shoulder is pretty high in transition and through impact. This is going to add some loft; in addition, I have not been closing the club face completely relative to my path, so that adds some loft as well.

What's a good smash factor with a 7 ... anybody?

1.36 is decent; I couldn't get anything over 1.32 (with most around 1.3).

With these C-Taper 130x shafts, I would expect my 7i spins to be in the 6600 range. I play in a lot of wind, so I really hate the ball that flies too high and spins too much.

A lot of numbers not adding up. Among good players with higher clubhead speeds -7 AoA is completely normal for a 7 iron.

Again, not qualified to give you swing advice, but to me it sorta sounds like a slightly OTT move that you have modified to fit your needs by catching the ball earlier in arc to neutralise the path (so that you aren't way out-to-in) and holding the face off to keep it square, in so doing presenting a ton of loft at impact.

Ever tried feeling like you are aimed right and trying to hit a "dead pull" back in the direction of the target? Curious what that might do for you.

Among good players with higher clubhead speeds -7 AoA is completely normal for a 7 iron.

Great to know! I wasn't sure how I was going to be able to change that significantly one way or the other.

Also, I feel like there's some skepticism here, so I've asked the Trackman guy to send me data from a couple of shots. I'll post when/if I have them, obviously.

Again, not qualified to give you swing advice, but to me it sorta sounds like a slightly OTT move that you have modified to fit your needs by catching the ball earlier in arc to neutralise the path (so that you aren't way out-to-in) and holding the face off to keep it square, in so doing presenting a ton of loft at impact.

 

Ever tried feeling like you are aimed right and trying to hit a "dead pull" back in the direction of the target? Curious what that might do for you.

Perhaps you're right about catching it earlier in the arc. My reroute is absolutely OTT-ish, and I have a serious hold-off move.

When I was aiming right yesterday and trying to change my swing direction, I pulled (at least that's what it felt like to me) every shot back in the direction of the target.

Again, not qualified to give you swing advice, but to me it sorta sounds like a slightly OTT move that you have modified to fit your needs by catching the ball earlier in arc to neutralise the path (so that you aren't way out-to-in) and holding the face off to keep it square, in so doing presenting a ton of loft at impact.

 

Ever tried feeling like you are aimed right and trying to hit a "dead pull" back in the direction of the target? Curious what that might do for you.

 

Perhaps you're right about catching it earlier in the arc. My reroute is absolutely OTT-ish, and I have a serious hold-off move.

 

When I was aiming right yesterday and trying to change my swing direction, I pulled (at least that's what it felt like to me) every shot back in the direction of the target.

How'd the numbers and ballflight compare when you did that?

Were you hitting off mats or grass? Do you know the loft of your 7i?

Fresh rye grass. 34º 7-iron.

Was it well fertilized or kinda malnourished?

Dang Nathan Smith looks so good coming down! BRB learning that backswing to get in position.

Ok, have a look at these data points.

Swing 1 (just doing my normal thang):

Impact position on Swing 1:

Swing 2: Swinging to "right field" in an attempt to get the swing direction more to the right:

Alas, I don't have an impact pic for Swing 2.

One thing I noticed—my average launch angles weren't nearly as high as I originally reported. I hit two balls over 20º, and they both spun too much.

~16º is ok with a 7-iron, I think.

What jumps out at me is what a friggin arsehole that I was, as I just used my divot, ball flight and Maddie’s eyes to get to a competitive +2.8??

 

I’m a simple minded mofo so any kind of data dump woulda caused a total mental meltdown?

 

193yd 7i???

 

Holy smokes, I only went 173, lol

 

Jesus, my Tour Bud only takes his 178-180

 

Nathan Smith rocks it 168-170, haha

 

The other thing that jumps out at me(besides I’m an arsehole?) is that I’m a dinosaur ?

 

Also, I see that you’re a 1.2~ so regardless of your self critique, you have to have a quality consistent reproducible swing and I would say that to get where I take it you wanna go, it’s not your physical game that’s gonna move ya to Plus.

 

Nope, and I don’t give a shat what the numbers say-

 

You’re a 1.2~!!!

 

TRUST Youself!!

 

TRUST the swing that got you to 1.2~!!!

 

And quit asking friggin strangers WTF you should do?

 

You’re at the door~

 

TRUST Yourself?

 

Go look at a video of Nathan Smith’s swing!!!

 

Seriously, do it please

 

Now imagine if he came in here anonymously and posted that swing!!!

 

Christ, he’s have friggin chops rippin him and offering advice??

 

He’s got FIVE USGA Titles, FOUR Masters Imvites and THREE Walker Cup appearances.

 

TRUST Yourslf Bro!!!

 

You got Game!!

 

If ya must, go find a quality Teacher to get ya through the door or take one of the guys here on the board.

 

Isaac, who’s at +4 whatever, lmao, has one and the guy’s helped him immeasurably(no, I’m not disclosing who though Isaac may).

 

Regardless, the very best to Ya?

 

Have a great season my Friend??‍♂️

 

Cheers?

RP

Holy cow, Forged. I was expecting to see Nathan swing like Jimmy Bruen!!