Stem cell injections hand wrist arthritis

Has anyone here had these injections? Results?
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  • BB28403BB28403 Members Posts: 3,066 ✭✭
    Try Glucosamine
  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭
    BB28403 wrote:


    Try Glucosamine




    Thanks, have tried varying dosages in conjunction with MSM too, pretty much done all the natural therapies I can including PT. What I'm doing now is an anti inflammatory diet, something I did about 2 years ago with success--but I wasn't up to the task to continue it and slowly reverted. Now I haven't completed 18 holes in a while, sometimes quitting after 2 or 3 in frustration as I cannot hold the club in the takeaway and my swing begins to echo Charles Barkley as I stand the club up vertically to avoid the pain that comes with a real swing.
  • GolfbeatGolfbeat Swing Lessee Posts: 1,648 ✭✭
    Are your bones deforming or is it just pain from inflammation? If it is inflammation I would make sure that it is not caused by trigger points in the arms, neck and shoulders.
  • MillbrookMillbrook Members Posts: 1,694 ✭✭
    Have you tried touch tuina massage. I was told I needed an operation for carpel tunnel syndrome and the massage cured it.
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  • BB28403BB28403 Members Posts: 3,066 ✭✭
    I have heard of people doing stem cells for a lot of therapies these days. For hair loss, quadriplegics , etc etc. I’m just hoping they will be able to regrow teeth in the next ohhh 5 years. Please and thanks! Haha

    But sure if you’ve tried everything else then go with stem cells. They prob work.
  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭
    Golfbeat wrote:


    Are your bones deforming or is it just pain from inflammation? If it is inflammation I would make sure that it is not caused by trigger points in the arms, neck and shoulders.




    Thanks for your reply. Xrays show severe arthritis at the STT joint in the right hand and severe arthritic and biologic conditions in other small thumb/wrist joint areas on left and on right hand/wrists. Golfing pain is predominantly right hand/wrist and as a LH golfer it's the support hand for the backswing and transition.



    Have seen the best chiropractors around, more than one, checking out potential trigger points but the pain strongly appears to be localized in nature.
  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭
    edited Jan 28, 2019 2:55pm #8
    BB28403 wrote:


    I have heard of people doing stem cells for a lot of therapies these days. For hair loss, quadriplegics , etc etc. I’m just hoping they will be able to regrow teeth in the next ohhh 5 years. Please and thanks! Haha

    But sure if you’ve tried everything else then go with stem cells. They prob work.




    Yeah that's why I'm trying to get feedback. There has been a proliferation of stem cell harvesting and injecting clinics throughout the USA, with a dearth of---or maybe zero?--double blind studies on its efficacy. A lot of anecdotal positive evidence from the injectors but it's rarely covered by insurance and very very expensive. What I'm looking at now, for example, is both hands and both shoulders (torn labrums in both shoulders from whitewater rafting "adventures") $8,000
  • jarturojarturo Members Posts: 19
    edited Jan 28, 2019 9:59pm #9
    I have had prolo therapy, PRP, and stem cell for various ailments (I'm 63 year old golfer and hockey player).



    My last big injury was a left shoulder issue (Nov. 2016) from kettle bell type lift of a 50 lb portable generator that caught a pressure washer handle and stopped the generator in mid pull. (OUCH)



    The MRI was inconclusive, and the ultrasound showed internal tears of the surpa and infraspinatus tendons. Two PRP injection in January 2017 and April 2017 did not help ($600/each). I had a stem cell injection in December 2017 ($3,500 - discounted since I had 2 PRP injections) and the tears healed. But...I developed a bone spur in the shoulder that was removed on Dec. 7, 2018. The surprise was the tendons were torn 2 cm off the bone and now surgically reattached by doctor number 2 . Six weeks in a sling and a lengthy 6 month rehab.

    This tendon issue would have been properly diagnosed had any of the doctors done an ultra sound while the arm was in motion.



    Jack
  • BB28403BB28403 Members Posts: 3,066 ✭✭
    jarturo wrote:
    I have had prolo therapy, PRP, and stem cell for various ailments (I'm 63 year old golfer and hockey player).



    My last big injury was a left shoulder issue (Nov. 2016) from kettle bell type lift of a 50 lb portable generator that caught a pressure washer handle and stopped the generator in mid pull. (OUCH)



    The MRI was inconclusive, and the ultrasound showed internal tears of the surpa and infraspinatus tendons. Two PRP injection in January 2017 and April 2017 did not help ($600/each). I had a stem cell injection in December 2017 ($3,500 - discounted since I had 2 PRP injections) and the tears healed. But...I developed a bone spur in the shoulder that was removed on Dec. 7, 2018. The surprise was the tendons were torn 2 cm off the bone and now surgically reattached by doctor number 2 . Six weeks in a sling and a lengthy 6 month rehab.

    This tendon issue would have been properly diagnosed had any of the doctors done an ultra sound while the arm was in motion.



    Jack




    Why would you jerk up a generator like that? And ouch!
  • jarturojarturo Members Posts: 19
    My impatience did it.



    Neighborhood setting up for the Halloween spooky trail through the woods, and they wanted to have power for a couple of devices at the middle of the trail (500 yards from no power). Drove home to picked up the generator in the garage. There was a lot of stuff in the way and I did not take the time to moved it to get easy access. Reached over the lawn mower and did the pull/lift. Had it missed the pressure washer handle then I would not have had the self created mess.
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,143 ✭✭




    Try CBD oil. Lots of positive chatter about it. I haven’t tried it yet but I will soon. Supposed to help inflammation.
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  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭
    edited Jan 29, 2019 11:35pm #13
    jarturo wrote:


    I have had prolo therapy, PRP, and stem cell for various ailments (I'm 63 year old golfer and hockey player).



    My last big injury was a left shoulder issue (Nov. 2016) from kettle bell type lift of a 50 lb portable generator that caught a pressure washer handle and stopped the generator in mid pull. (OUCH)



    The MRI was inconclusive, and the ultrasound showed internal tears of the surpa and infraspinatus tendons. Two PRP injection in January 2017 and April 2017 did not help ($600/each). I had a stem cell injection in December 2017 ($3,500 - discounted since I had 2 PRP injections) and the tears healed. But...I developed a bone spur in the shoulder that was removed on Dec. 7, 2018. The surprise was the tendons were torn 2 cm off the bone and now surgically reattached by doctor number 2 . Six weeks in a sling and a lengthy 6 month rehab.

    This tendon issue would have been properly diagnosed had any of the doctors done an ultra sound while the arm was in motion.



    Jack




    Sorry to hear about this Jack. You tried to do the right thing, maybe a bit too quickly but were pretty harshly penalized. No doubt a better diagnosis could have saved you lots of moolah and time. Hope you heal perfectly. So the stem cell injections healed the tear--did that lessen your pain or was the bone spur the real cause of your pain? When I tore my shoulder labrum--which showed up on an arthrogram--dye injected kind of procedure e x t r e m e l y painful--the shoulder doc said if he were to operate on everyone who showed a tear somewhere he'd perform about 4 unneeded surgeries out of every 5 patients. So were the tears the cause of your pain?
  • Zip-in-ZZip-in-Z Z-Z's First Love - 1970 Members Posts: 777 ✭✭
    edited Jan 30, 2019 12:00am #14
    I had four Stem Cell procedure injections done in April 2018 in my lower back, it's helped me significantly. In August 2018 I went back for six PRP injections, Doc said it's a Stem Cell Booster & would further promote the stem cells to regenerate. So far I can truthfully say I've seen some significant improvements and have scheduled a second PRP treatment in April 2019. I'm told it doesn't work for everyone, but it worked for me.



    Wish you all the best.



    David.



    You may wish to check out this old thread "For Tiger, it was fusion. For Jack, stem cells".



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  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭
    Thank you for responding to this discussion. Read the thread you linked to and interestingly I was in Munich last year seeking out Eckharft Alt at his clinic (guy who injected Nicklaus in 2016?)

    German gov’t closed his clinic-and I had been scheduled to be seen). Not sure it’s reopened.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,352 ClubWRX
    juliette91 wrote:


    Thank you for responding to this discussion. Read the thread you linked to and interestingly I was in Munich last year seeking out Eckharft Alt at his clinic (guy who injected Nicklaus in 2016?)

    German gov't closed his clinic-and I had been scheduled to be seen). Not sure it's reopened.




    He moved to Jupiter.
  • jarturojarturo Members Posts: 19
    The bone spurs were the cause of the pain.

    I had a lidocaine injection in the supraspinatis and "magically for 30 minutes " no pain. I could load/pressure my arm away from my body with no problem.



    The above helped set up the confusion or miss on the underlying issue.



    Jack
  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭
    edited Feb 14, 2019 3:00pm #18
    juliette91 wrote:


    Has anyone here had these injections? Results?




    will post my results here. on the 12th I had stem cells from my bone marrow and fat (my own fat) plus platelet rich plasma from my blood (they draw a lot of blood to do this!), so called PRP and all three were mixed in an injection cocktail that I received for my poor thumb/wrist joint in my RH, same issue but a bit less severe and in different places in my LH, plus both my shoulders which have torn labrums. Fwiw I could play golf with these torn labrums somehow but they curtailed many other activities that I love to do. So what the ****, had them all injected.



    Holy mackerel, the pain of the injections was probably an 8 on the scale of 1-10 with 10 being passing out. That night the pain most of the night was 8-9. 2nd night most of the pain was about a 6-7. Both shoulders have very limited motion now and pain but it's only not quite the 2nd day. Results, good or none, are expected within about 6 weeks. Will keep you posted.
  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭
    juliette91 wrote:

    juliette91 wrote:


    Has anyone here had these injections? Results?




    will post my results here. on the 12th I had stem cells from my bone marrow and fat (my own fat) plus platelet rich plasma from my blood (they draw a lot of blood to do this!), so called PRP and all three were mixed in an injection cocktail that I received for my poor thumb/wrist joint in my RH, same issue but a bit less severe and in different places in my LH, plus both my shoulders which have torn labrums. Fwiw I could play golf with these torn labrums somehow but they curtailed many other activities that I love to do. So what the ****, had them all injected.



    Holy mackerel, the pain of the injections was probably an 8 on the scale of 1-10 with 10 being passing out. That night the pain most of the night was 8-9. 2nd night most of the pain was about a 6-7. Both shoulders have very limited motion now and pain but it's only not quite the 2nd day. Results, good or none, are expected within about 6 weeks. Will keep you posted.




    2.5 days in, LH still swollen and hurting from it, RH less swollen and not very painful, just a shade more painful than pre injection procedure. Shoulders different story. Pain in RS is akin to the initial tearing of the labrum, no position possible without pain and sleeping was not possible without pain but I did fall asleep for a couple hours. Dr. says swelling is normal (sent him the pictures of my hands) and he is a trustworthy pro so I will hold off on complaining.



    Mostly want to continue to report my results since others of you out there have contacted me wanting to know how this goes.
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,143 ✭✭
    Wow. Sounds rough. Appreciate the updates. I’m not there yet but my hands and left shoulder will surely need help one day soon.
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  • jarturojarturo Members Posts: 19
    My shoulder stem cell injections were as yours (Stem cell, PRP, and fat cells).

    The doc injected several spots. The pain was pretty bad for a week as I could barely lift or move my arm. Each week was better and by the end of the month I was back to the pain level before the injection.



    Funny how there was no real mention from the doctor that this might be very painful for a while.



    Jack
  • Zip-in-ZZip-in-Z Z-Z's First Love - 1970 Members Posts: 777 ✭✭
    Juliette ... it gets better with time, in April 2018 had my stem cells injected into 4 locations (L4/5 & L5/S1) in my lower back. Doc gave me an RX for Tramadol as they don’t want you taking any anti-inflammatory for a minimum 4-week period, like Ibuprofen, Naproxen, Aleve or products like Voltaren, Turmeric and/or ice which all could inhibit the healing & regeneration process.



    I'm currently hiding from winter in the Palm Springs area until mid-April it's been cool & raining here, but I'm still golfing and feeling better than ever.



    Wish you all the best.



    David
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  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭
    edited Feb 15, 2019 3:55pm #23
    jarturo wrote:


    My shoulder stem cell injections were as yours (Stem cell, PRP, and fat cells).

    The doc injected several spots. The pain was pretty bad for a week as I could barely lift or move my arm. Each week was better and by the end of the month I was back to the pain level before the injection.



    Funny how there was no real mention from the doctor that this might be very painful for a while.



    Jack






    Well you know how a physician’s estimate of pain usually understates things. That was the case here. I figure now it will take a month to get to pre injection condition-I hope. I do have faith that I will improve 25-50% over pre-injection condition. The literature, anecdotal though it is (decent patient numbers but not double blind) supports that. Read a book called The Cure written by I think an MD dr. researcher and am now a true believer in optimistic thinking.
  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭


    Juliette ... it gets better with time, in April 2018 had my stem cells injected into 4 locations (L4/5 & L5/S1) in my lower back. Doc gave me an RX for Tramadol as they don’t want you taking any anti-inflammatory for a minimum 4-week period, like Ibuprofen, Naproxen, Aleve or products like Voltaren, Turmeric and/or ice which all could inhibit the healing & regeneration process.



    I'm currently hiding from winter in the Palm Springs area until mid-April it's been cool & raining here, but I'm still golfing and feeling better than ever.



    Thanks for your post and information. Have you actually improved over pre injection condition?



    Wish you all the best.



    David
  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭
    Has your condition improved over pre injection?
  • Zip-in-ZZip-in-Z Z-Z's First Love - 1970 Members Posts: 777 ✭✭
    juliette91 wrote:


    Has your condition improved over pre injection?




    Yes .... my lower back has improved significantly, I'm even hitting the ball better and getting more distance. The big difference is I'm not taking Advil, Tylenol, Aleve etc just to get through the day. I'm sure you were provided with a number of daily stretching/strengthening exercises to start doing once your Doc says it OK, that will help you further, stay focused, it gets better. When I get home in mid-April I'm scheduled for another PRP treatment (6 needles) in the same area to further promote the stem cell generation\repair process.



    Cheers



    David
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  • juliette91juliette91 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭
    Thanks David, Today marks the first 4 full days since my many injections. Since I had both hands, both wrists and both shoulders, with multiples in each I’m progressing just fine. Did the 5 day water fast in prep and hope that boosted my stem cell count. Regardless, I remain very confident I will lessen my pain by 20-50%.
  • RohlioRohlio Members Posts: 2,308 ✭✭
    I have researched (or rather tried researching) stem cell injection efficacy for countless of my patients. The fact is we have absolutely no idea about their efficacy, beyond pure anecdote at this point. We have no real data on what conditions, whom, how much, etc.



    The only thing we know for sure is that they appear to carry a very low risk profile. So if you have money to burn why not try?



    I have seen very few patients have much result out of them except that their wallet is lighter so maybe their back/shoulder/knee hurt less from carrying all that cash around. People really want them to work (and I do to) so that carries a very strong confirmation bias and placebo effect.



    Basically we don't know if they work, but they are unlikely to harm you.
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  • mukstermukster Is this the year? North of the 49thMembers Posts: 3,470 ✭✭
    Rohlio wrote:


    I have researched (or rather tried researching) stem cell injection efficacy for countless of my patients. The fact is we have absolutely no idea about their efficacy, beyond pure anecdote at this point. We have no real data on what conditions, whom, how much, etc.



    The only thing we know for sure is that they appear to carry a very low risk profile. So if you have money to burn why not try?



    I have seen very few patients have much result out of them except that their wallet is lighter so maybe their back/shoulder/knee hurt less from carrying all that cash around. People really want them to work (and I do to) so that carries a very strong confirmation bias and placebo effect.



    Basically we don't know if they work, but they are unlikely to harm you.




    Yeah, I looked around, but cannot find any proper data on this, other than advertisements and anecdotal information. There seems to be a lot more solid data when you research "placebo effect".
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  • jaydubjaydub Posts: 177 ✭✭
    I would recommend that everyone be very cautious about this type of treatment. Very little true proof that this type of treatment works. It is apparently difficult for the FDA to regulate these treatments and claims. There is a tremendous placebo effect in medicine. You treat enough people there are going to be some who feel that there was improvent, and then you use these patients for testimonials. Real proof requires rigidly constructed medical studies that are very expensive. Best to trust your favorite orthopedic surgeon for advise, or get an appointment at a university med center ortho department. Injections of the wrong product into a joint might cause additional damage.
  • Darth_BladerDarth_Blader Members Posts: 979 ✭✭
    Several years of working on cars, houses, check sorters (IBM 3890s), not to mention growing up on the mean streets of Des Moines have taken a toll on my hands.



    This year it has really been a pain the hands. Thinking about jumbo grips. I have been researching everything from tumeric to stem cell.



    Thanks for sharing the information!
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