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Question regarding balls and high driver spin

 nlinneman20 ·  
nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers  330WRX Points: 91Handicap: 12Posts: 330 Greens
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I currently play urethane balls (most recently z-star and xv), I have no complaints with them.

My complaint is my stupid high driver spin. I was at a simulator over the wkend, my clubhead was around 100, even reaching 103ish sometimes. My driver spin was constantly 3800+. My garmin app says my drives average 240. My accuracy has been good with my new Rogue so i dont have complaints there.

My question is, would a 'distance ball' aka non-urethane help me on my driver distance?

Yes I should probably take a lesson but with baby #2 coming in 4 months I dont really have the time or money to be paying $100/lesson. This is truly the only part of my game that irks me, I know i should be hitting it further and I cannot figure out how to squeeze out even an extra 10-yards consistently.

Posted:
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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members  11817WRX Points: 1,614Posts: 11,817 Titanium Tees
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    Simulator was almost certainly wrong.

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  • agolf1agolf1 Members  2001WRX Points: 1,149Posts: 2,001 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Aug 13, 2019 #3

    It is unlikely a different ball when increase distance much. All of these balls are fairly similar off the driver.

    Where are you making contact on the club face? This is the biggest factor in low/high spin.

    Posted:
    Post edited by agolf1 on
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  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers  16879WRX Points: 1,031Handicap: 4-5Posts: 16,879 Titanium Tees
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    Won't gain much by changing the ball. Guessing your spin is the result of one or more of the following: driver loft, shaft profile/tip, AOA and face impact area. If money is an issue, you might try working on catching the ball on the way up and slightly above your driver's sweet spot.

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  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers  330WRX Points: 91Handicap: 12Posts: 330 Greens
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    That's the thing any mark I have on the face is almost always in the middle or high up. I know my AOA is negative based on the track man results at a demo day recently.

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  • PhilomathesqPhilomathesq Legal EagleMembers  932WRX Points: 1,091Handicap: My tolerance for stupidity.Posts: 932 Golden Tee
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    On -, @North Butte said:

    Simulator was almost certainly wrong.

    I'm not so sure. Looking at Flightscope's Trajectory Optimizer, a ball speed of 150 with 3800 vertical spin with optimized vertical angle results in 233 yards carried and 236.4 yards with roll on a medium surface; a hard surface puts the roll up to 246.6 yards. So, if OP usually drives about 240, that would seem to be consistent with 3800rpm.

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  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers  330WRX Points: 91Handicap: 12Posts: 330 Greens
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    That's about right where I'm at, I'd say my ball speed registers mid 140s or so. I'm usually playing on hard surfaces as I live in stl and unless its rained significantly it's usually hard ground.

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  • BeerPerHoleBeerPerHole Members  1639WRX Points: 491Posts: 1,639 Platinum Tees
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    I had similar issues before I started releasing the club better and not striking down on it. 5k plus.

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  • hef63303hef63303 Members  2912WRX Points: 179Posts: 2,912 Titanium Tees
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    Moving the ball slightly forward in your stance may help a little. Helps your attack angle a little.

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  • lookylookitzadamlookylookitzadam SoCalMembers  651WRX Points: 235Handicap: 2.7Posts: 651 Golden Tee
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    Downward angle of attack will do that. Try and hit up a bit more to optimized distance (lower spin)

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  • MadGolfer76MadGolfer76 MaineMembers  20366WRX Points: 937Posts: 20,366 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Philomathesq said:

    On -, @North Butte said:

    Simulator was almost certainly wrong.

    I'm not so sure. Looking at Flightscope's Trajectory Optimizer, a ball speed of 150 with 3800 vertical spin with optimized vertical angle results in 233 yards carried and 236.4 yards with roll on a medium surface; a hard surface puts the roll up to 246.6 yards. So, if OP usually drives about 240, that would seem to be consistent with 3800rpm.

    Question I would have is did he use his normal ball in the sim? If not, throw the results out, I say.

    Posted:


  • EzgolferEzgolfer Members  3184WRX Points: 152Posts: 3,184 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Aug 13, 2019 #12

    On -, @BeerPerHole said:

    I had similar issues before I started releasing the club better and not striking down on it. 5k plus.

    Plus one..
    Learn to release the driver and nothing else....

    Posted:
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  • agolf1agolf1 Members  2001WRX Points: 1,149Posts: 2,001 Platinum Tees
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    How negative is your AOA?

    I question how much things will change (spin) if you simply go from -1 to +2 and a) face impact position stays the same and b) dynamic loft goes up by 3 degrees.

    I'm not saying there is no advantage to hitting up on it. But it seems like the bigger gains are related to launch angle and if you can deloft the club while swinging up (ie like DJ).

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  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25333WRX Points: 1,784Posts: 25,333 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Aug 13, 2019 #14

    Sorry but so much outdated info and advice here - forget AoA - that is not what's causing spin to be that high.

    The two biggest causes for high spin with a driver are:
    1) Poor face impact location - usually too low on the face. Easy to check with foot powder spray and no, you can't rely on just feel to tell you where that impact is on the face. The overly long stock driver playing lengths can be a big contributor to not being able to get good consistent face impact. Also, not only does this have a big influence on the spin - but it can also have a detrimental effect on ball speed as well.

    2) High dynamic loft - basically head too far in front of the hands at impact and too much reverse shaft lean. Mostly a swing issue but can be influenced by some set-up issues as well - such as tee height (too high) and/or ball position too far forward.

    In fact, trying to hit up on it and get a positive AoA is a very common cause for both those issues above. There are good ways to get a positive AoA and there are bad ways. The bad ways can easily make any spin problems even worse then they were with a negative AoA.

    Posted:
  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers  330WRX Points: 91Handicap: 12Posts: 330 Greens
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    To answer some questions

    1. I was using a regular ball in the simulator for a bit, my numbers were def a bit better but i was getting the distance i usually get on a real course (230 - 240ish). Then the bar owner told me to use their balls cuz they have 'sensors' in them. I dont know what his motivation was but, i followed directions, once I listened to him I had about 10 shots that didnt register with the simulator my regular balls were doing just fine IMO.

    2. when I hit on the trackman from PING my AOA was around a -3 at its worst, sometimes improving a bit but I dont think I ever got postiive.

    3. Stuart so what are you saying, try teeing it up lower and towards middle of my stance? I tee it up on the inside of my left foot with about half a ball above the driver head. Like i said, the Rogue face leaves some marks when you hit a ball, everything has been middle of the face and up for the most part. My driver is 45.5 inches long but i choke up a good half inch or so. My rogue is 9* stated loft and I play at a +1 and neutral setting.

    Posted:
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25333WRX Points: 1,784Posts: 25,333 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @nlinneman20 said:

    3. Stuart so what are you saying, try teeing it up lower and towards middle of my stance? I tee it up on the inside of my left foot with about half a ball above the driver head. Like i said, the Rogue face leaves some marks when you hit a ball, everything has been middle of the face and up for the most part. My driver is 45.5 inches long but i choke up a good half inch or so. My rogue is 9* stated loft and I play at a +1 and neutral setting.

    I'm saying it couldn't hurt to play around with ball position and tee height. But it may be hard to judge if it helps or not w/o proper feedback.

    Personally I wouldn't touch a driver longer than 44.5" - but everyone is different with respect to what lengths work (and what doesn't). And it's also important to match head weight with the length - so there is more too going shorter than simply choking up. Length can also influence a lot of other things about the delivery of the head into impact - so you never can tell how playing around with length (and swing weight) might influence the results.

    Also, foot powder spray is going to be a bit more accurate - but realize with some drivers, even being as much as 1/4" below center can add as much as 500 rpm of spin. So it's not just about location but also about how consistent your impact location is from swing to swing. That's another aspect where length can play a big part.

    BTW - you might want to get more details on that simulator hardware - make and model and year. Some need balls with metallic stickers to get accurate spin indoors (Trackman and Flightscope) - some require certain markings on the ball (FullSwing Golf) and many don't even try to measure spin and have various ways where they try to estimate it instead - few of which are actually that good at it. But I'm not aware of any that actually need a ball with a sensor inside it (that doesn't mean they don't exist). But the more we know about it, the better we can understand what numbers can be trusted and what can not.

    Posted:
  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers  330WRX Points: 91Handicap: 12Posts: 330 Greens
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    I'm not sure of the simulator name. The only thing i see on the website is that they are 'pga approved'. The balls look like regular golf balls with no names on them but short black, like sharpie, marks all over the ball. Like i said everything looked like it worked just fine when i was using my ball. The only issue we had was when we started using those stupid house balls, some shots I hit 3x before it registered.

    Posted:
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  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers  330WRX Points: 91Handicap: 12Posts: 330 Greens
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    Looks like in a photo online of the simulator it says 'about golf' not sure if that is the brand but i see it plastered on the front of one of the simulators.

    https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/top-shooters-columbia?select=I5UagdkVjz15iTMMC26FXQ

    Posted:
  • sdrthedjsdrthedj Members  325WRX Points: 39Handicap: 8Posts: 325 Greens
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    Are you sure the simulator was measuring spin, and not just calculating it? Many don't measure it.

    Posted:
  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers  330WRX Points: 91Handicap: 12Posts: 330 Greens
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    Ya got me SDR lol, I'm not a simulator guru, just figured this one seemed pretty nice and distances could be fairly accurate.

    Our range just installed toptracer, problem is, it doesnt give you spin rates. Other problem is I dont trust those range balls. I have come away there absolutely defeated with every drive going 200 yards, then I go play a real round and my drives are in the 230 and 240's

    Posted:
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25333WRX Points: 1,784Posts: 25,333 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Aug 14, 2019 #21

    On -, @nlinneman20 said:

    Looks like in a photo online of the simulator it says 'about golf' not sure if that is the brand but i see it plastered on the front of one of the simulators.

    Yes, "aboutGolf" is a very high end simulator.
    https://www.aboutgolf.com/simulators

    I think that's what the Golf Channel uses in their simulator studio.

    When used and set-up properly, (use the balls with the correct marks), the spin and the rest of the ball and club data should be pretty accurate. Distance (of course) is always going to be subject to the accuracy of the ball flight and ground roll out algorithms but should be fairly decent.

    Posted:

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