Question regarding balls and high driver spin

nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers Posts: 178 ✭✭✭

I currently play urethane balls (most recently z-star and xv), I have no complaints with them.

My complaint is my stupid high driver spin. I was at a simulator over the wkend, my clubhead was around 100, even reaching 103ish sometimes. My driver spin was constantly 3800+. My garmin app says my drives average 240. My accuracy has been good with my new Rogue so i dont have complaints there.

My question is, would a 'distance ball' aka non-urethane help me on my driver distance?

Yes I should probably take a lesson but with baby #2 coming in 4 months I dont really have the time or money to be paying $100/lesson. This is truly the only part of my game that irks me, I know i should be hitting it further and I cannot figure out how to squeeze out even an extra 10-yards consistently.

Comments

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,904 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Simulator was almost certainly wrong.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 13, 2019 1:02am #3

    It is unlikely a different ball when increase distance much. All of these balls are fairly similar off the driver.

    Where are you making contact on the club face? This is the biggest factor in low/high spin.

    Post edited by agolf1 on
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  Ping Eye 2+ (58*) or Ping Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers Posts: 15,808 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Won't gain much by changing the ball. Guessing your spin is the result of one or more of the following: driver loft, shaft profile/tip, AOA and face impact area. If money is an issue, you might try working on catching the ball on the way up and slightly above your driver's sweet spot.

    • Titleist TS2 9.5, PX HZRDUS Red 6.0
    • Titleist 917D2 15*, Diamana Blueboard 83 x5ct,"S"
    • Titleist 716T-MB 17* 2 iron, Steelfiber i95cw "S"
    • Titleist 716CB 3i-9i, Steelfiber i95cw "S"
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  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers Posts: 178 ✭✭✭

    That's the thing any mark I have on the face is almost always in the middle or high up. I know my AOA is negative based on the track man results at a demo day recently.

  • PhilomathesqPhilomathesq Legal EagleMembers Posts: 222 ✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:
    Simulator was almost certainly wrong.

    I'm not so sure. Looking at Flightscope's Trajectory Optimizer, a ball speed of 150 with 3800 vertical spin with optimized vertical angle results in 233 yards carried and 236.4 yards with roll on a medium surface; a hard surface puts the roll up to 246.6 yards. So, if OP usually drives about 240, that would seem to be consistent with 3800rpm.

    Driver: Mizuno ST190G, Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited 70 O5 flex
    (Fairway woods in progress)
    (Long irons in progress)
    5i - PW: New Level 902, DG Tour Issue X100
    Wedges: New Level M-Type Black 50/54, DG Tour Issue X100 Onyx; Titleist Vokey SM7 60K Black, DG Tour Issue X100 Onyx
    Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab Seven S

  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers Posts: 178 ✭✭✭

    That's about right where I'm at, I'd say my ball speed registers mid 140s or so. I'm usually playing on hard surfaces as I live in stl and unless its rained significantly it's usually hard ground.

  • BeerPerHoleBeerPerHole Members Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I had similar issues before I started releasing the club better and not striking down on it. 5k plus.

    Ping G400 Max, 8-degrees, tour stiff
    Mizuno JPX900 Forged irons
    Ping G400 5-wood
    Taylormade Spider blade
    Srixon Z Star

    Knee Deep Breaking Bud IPA

  • hef63303hef63303 Members Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Moving the ball slightly forward in your stance may help a little. Helps your attack angle a little.

  • lookylookitzadamlookylookitzadam Members Posts: 527 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Downward angle of attack will do that. Try and hit up a bit more to optimized distance (lower spin)

  • MadGolfer76MadGolfer76 Admiration is the state furthest from understanding. Members Posts: 20,083 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Philomathesq said:

    @North Butte said:
    Simulator was almost certainly wrong.

    I'm not so sure. Looking at Flightscope's Trajectory Optimizer, a ball speed of 150 with 3800 vertical spin with optimized vertical angle results in 233 yards carried and 236.4 yards with roll on a medium surface; a hard surface puts the roll up to 246.6 yards. So, if OP usually drives about 240, that would seem to be consistent with 3800rpm.

    Question I would have is did he use his normal ball in the sim? If not, throw the results out, I say.

    Titleist 915D3 9.5
    Titleist 917Fd @ 14.25
    Mizuno Clk 19, 22
    Titleist 716mb 4-Pw
    Vokey SM7 52, 58
    Bettinardi Studio Stock 8
    Titleist ProV1

  • EzgolferEzgolfer Members Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 13, 2019 2:24am #12

    @BeerPerHole said:
    I had similar issues before I started releasing the club better and not striking down on it. 5k plus.

    Plus one..
    Learn to release the driver and nothing else....

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    How negative is your AOA?

    I question how much things will change (spin) if you simply go from -1 to +2 and a) face impact position stays the same and b) dynamic loft goes up by 3 degrees.

    I'm not saying there is no advantage to hitting up on it. But it seems like the bigger gains are related to launch angle and if you can deloft the club while swinging up (ie like DJ).

    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  Ping Eye 2+ (58*) or Ping Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,832 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 13, 2019 11:47am #14

    Sorry but so much outdated info and advice here - forget AoA - that is not what's causing spin to be that high.

    The two biggest causes for high spin with a driver are:
    1) Poor face impact location - usually too low on the face. Easy to check with foot powder spray and no, you can't rely on just feel to tell you where that impact is on the face. The overly long stock driver playing lengths can be a big contributor to not being able to get good consistent face impact. Also, not only does this have a big influence on the spin - but it can also have a detrimental effect on ball speed as well.

    2) High dynamic loft - basically head too far in front of the hands at impact and too much reverse shaft lean. Mostly a swing issue but can be influenced by some set-up issues as well - such as tee height (too high) and/or ball position too far forward.

    In fact, trying to hit up on it and get a positive AoA is a very common cause for both those issues above. There are good ways to get a positive AoA and there are bad ways. The bad ways can easily make any spin problems even worse then they were with a negative AoA.

  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers Posts: 178 ✭✭✭

    To answer some questions

    1. I was using a regular ball in the simulator for a bit, my numbers were def a bit better but i was getting the distance i usually get on a real course (230 - 240ish). Then the bar owner told me to use their balls cuz they have 'sensors' in them. I dont know what his motivation was but, i followed directions, once I listened to him I had about 10 shots that didnt register with the simulator my regular balls were doing just fine IMO.

    2. when I hit on the trackman from PING my AOA was around a -3 at its worst, sometimes improving a bit but I dont think I ever got postiive.

    3. Stuart so what are you saying, try teeing it up lower and towards middle of my stance? I tee it up on the inside of my left foot with about half a ball above the driver head. Like i said, the Rogue face leaves some marks when you hit a ball, everything has been middle of the face and up for the most part. My driver is 45.5 inches long but i choke up a good half inch or so. My rogue is 9* stated loft and I play at a +1 and neutral setting.

  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,832 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @nlinneman20 said:
    3. Stuart so what are you saying, try teeing it up lower and towards middle of my stance? I tee it up on the inside of my left foot with about half a ball above the driver head. Like i said, the Rogue face leaves some marks when you hit a ball, everything has been middle of the face and up for the most part. My driver is 45.5 inches long but i choke up a good half inch or so. My rogue is 9* stated loft and I play at a +1 and neutral setting.

    I'm saying it couldn't hurt to play around with ball position and tee height. But it may be hard to judge if it helps or not w/o proper feedback.

    Personally I wouldn't touch a driver longer than 44.5" - but everyone is different with respect to what lengths work (and what doesn't). And it's also important to match head weight with the length - so there is more too going shorter than simply choking up. Length can also influence a lot of other things about the delivery of the head into impact - so you never can tell how playing around with length (and swing weight) might influence the results.

    Also, foot powder spray is going to be a bit more accurate - but realize with some drivers, even being as much as 1/4" below center can add as much as 500 rpm of spin. So it's not just about location but also about how consistent your impact location is from swing to swing. That's another aspect where length can play a big part.

    BTW - you might want to get more details on that simulator hardware - make and model and year. Some need balls with metallic stickers to get accurate spin indoors (Trackman and Flightscope) - some require certain markings on the ball (FullSwing Golf) and many don't even try to measure spin and have various ways where they try to estimate it instead - few of which are actually that good at it. But I'm not aware of any that actually need a ball with a sensor inside it (that doesn't mean they don't exist). But the more we know about it, the better we can understand what numbers can be trusted and what can not.

  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers Posts: 178 ✭✭✭

    I'm not sure of the simulator name. The only thing i see on the website is that they are 'pga approved'. The balls look like regular golf balls with no names on them but short black, like sharpie, marks all over the ball. Like i said everything looked like it worked just fine when i was using my ball. The only issue we had was when we started using those stupid house balls, some shots I hit 3x before it registered.

  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers Posts: 178 ✭✭✭

    Looks like in a photo online of the simulator it says 'about golf' not sure if that is the brand but i see it plastered on the front of one of the simulators.

    https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/top-shooters-columbia?select=I5UagdkVjz15iTMMC26FXQ

  • sdrthedjsdrthedj Members Posts: 321 ✭✭✭✭

    Are you sure the simulator was measuring spin, and not just calculating it? Many don't measure it.

  • nlinneman20nlinneman20 Saint LouisMembers Posts: 178 ✭✭✭

    Ya got me SDR lol, I'm not a simulator guru, just figured this one seemed pretty nice and distances could be fairly accurate.

    Our range just installed toptracer, problem is, it doesnt give you spin rates. Other problem is I dont trust those range balls. I have come away there absolutely defeated with every drive going 200 yards, then I go play a real round and my drives are in the 230 and 240's

  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,832 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 14, 2019 11:52am #21

    @nlinneman20 said:
    Looks like in a photo online of the simulator it says 'about golf' not sure if that is the brand but i see it plastered on the front of one of the simulators.

    Yes, "aboutGolf" is a very high end simulator.
    https://www.aboutgolf.com/simulators

    I think that's what the Golf Channel uses in their simulator studio.

    When used and set-up properly, (use the balls with the correct marks), the spin and the rest of the ball and club data should be pretty accurate. Distance (of course) is always going to be subject to the accuracy of the ball flight and ground roll out algorithms but should be fairly decent.

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