For you guys asking for a help in picking a shaft!

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Comments

  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,844 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @joey3108 said:
    The attack angle telling me it's not good. You need to be around +4-5* to get into the ideal area to bring down your spin rate, but yet trajectory (loft setting) will definitely need to be adjusted again to get it to ideal.

    Sorry but that's not correct. His AoA with the driver isn't the problem at all and not what's causing the high spin issues. And a 4-5* up AoA is definitely not needed get the spin down. In fact, the only thing that's 'bad' about the AoA is the inconsistency. His average AoA is higher (more upward) than the tour average and they don't have the same spin issues. People really need to stop getting overly focused on AoA when it comes to driver spin. It's not even close to the top of the list when it comes to factors involving spin.

    No his driver spin is largely an impact issue and probably also a little bit too much dynamic loft - hands a bit too far behind the ball at impact. Sometimes caused by people getting a bit flippy - sometimes it can actually be caused by people trying to increase AoA in the wrong way.

  • joey3108joey3108 Proud founding sponsor and pioneer of golfwrx Bay AreaMarshals Posts: 7,860 mod
    edited Jul 11, 2019 6:20pm #903

    Sorry, not in my book and my sticky post!

    The guy doing the lm monitor comment is correct he should not swing the driver like an iron....that shows the iron attack angle also too steep and creating spins more than ideal. I never like talking about swing inconsistency without really looking at a video at least. Numbers can change dramatically during fitting from a small set up change and understanding what a good swing concept should be. If i have to talk about numbers problem coming from which i hate guessing base on numbers only.... It could be from ball position to far inside and to much lateral motion (sway) at impact. Launch angle average and club set up +75 mid kick shaft profile shows me that it's less likely to be a flipper... The least launch angle would be higher if he is a flipper with that set up.

    Post edited by joey3108 on
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,844 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 12, 2019 11:01am #904

    Sorry - I really don't want to sound like an a** but your book is a little out of date. While in the world of instruction, it's true that a higher AoA might be able to gain one a little more optimal numbers - but that's not the same at all as saying AoA is the cause of high spin issues or poor distance. W/o the other issues present (that need to be dealt with first) sub 3000 rpm spin is very common with the posters AoA numbers - yet he's much higher than that with his spin. The TM tour averages also show this with 2600 spin average for a -1.3* AoA. So it's pretty clear that more is going on with the poster than AoA to cause his spin issues.

    And on a side note - how he feels he swings the driver isn't really relevant. Feel isn't always real. It's the results (and numbers) that matter, not the intent. And the numbers tell us that the AoA is fairly neutral and not even close to being the main issue.

    Now I certainly do agree completely that trying to interpret swing issues from just the numbers is difficult at best, deceiving at worst. Video is really the best way to judge the swing and what changes might be needed there, whether simple set-up changes or more involved changes to the mechanics. There certainly could be things that need to be addressed as far as the swing is concerned but the numbers are not telling us what that might be in this case. So the best approach to help with possible swing issues is to redirect the individual to the instruction sub-forum to post a video or go see a reputable local instructor.

    However there are things from the number that is very apparent could be addressed with equipment changes. The obvious and the most important thing those numbers tell us (starting with very poor smash factor) is that face impact location is likely very inconsistent - as well as other aspects of the delivery of the club into impact - and that inconsistency is the dominant (by far) source o his his problems. Or at least it's certainly the first thing that needs to be checked and addressed. For the driver, the bulge and roll of the face and the huge influence of gear effect with the driver means that face impact location has more influence on the results - spin, spin axis, launch and ball speed (smash factor) than anything else. So until any face impact issues have been addressed - it really means all the numbers are really meaningless in terms of any other aspect of evaluating the results and making equipment changes.

    And when it comes to fixing face impact issues with equipment - the starting place needs to be playing length and swing weight and possibly shaft weight. For most the shaft stiffness profile can be largely ignored for most at this stage - although it may need to be revisited at a later point - but only after those other factors are addressed.

    And the best way to address those issues and the face impact in general - is to go through and follow Howard's DIY fitting tutorial:
    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/909991/diy-driver-tune-up-diy-fitting/p1

    After that, we can then look at the new numbers for things like dynamic loft and tweak static loft or maybe shaft profile to further deal with any spin issues if they still exist.

  • joey3108joey3108 Proud founding sponsor and pioneer of golfwrx Bay AreaMarshals Posts: 7,860 mod

    My daily job teaching and showing them how to do it and prove it on the course with playing results.... Theory only means nothing for customer/student who need to see and feel how to do it. Success rate says a thousand words! I'm a do'er, not a talker nor writer! Move on!

  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,844 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 14, 2019 10:05am #906

    @joey3108 said:
    My daily job teaching and showing them how to do it and prove it on the course with playing results.... Theory only means nothing for customer/student who need to see and feel how to do it. Success rate says a thousand words! I'm a do'er, not a talker nor writer! Move on!

    My position isn't just a matter of theory, far from it. In addition to the scientific validation, there is plenty of experience and hard data to back it up - largely thanks to the modern LM's and their use in fitting. But feel free to ignore it if you want. I have no problem letting the readers make their own decision on the matter.

    Post edited by Stuart_G on

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