"Swinging your own swing" and a specific question about mine...

[RobToTheT]

Hi folks. First time poster/long-time reader with a general question and a specific one.

 

I'm curious if you've reached a point where you feel you have your own swing vs "the swing you are supposed to have." And if so, at what point did you find you started to make it your own? 

 

My sense is all good swings have about 80 - 85% in common. But obviously even at the elite level guys have different grips, back swings, footwork, pivots, follow-through, etc. 

 

For me, I am hitting the major check points throughout my swing but now that I've worked on it pretty intentionally I feel like I've hit a point where there really is a fork in the road. Back when I started I found my way to a strong grip (really strong) to solve for some bad mechanics. Now that my mechanics are better and I really push through and finish properly, the impact of that strong grip are more pronounced unless I work to offset it in another way.

 

So my fork is either work on a more neutral grip or work on being consistent in impact-to-follow-though that matches my swing pattern - basically more of that upper-cut style from impact to finish path (Hovland has this). And I much prefer the later though most would say work on the neutral grip, which I can not stand feel-wise. It throws everything off. I realize I could go to work on that specifically for the next however many months to make it my new feel. But why not just focus on finishing the right way for the way my swing works now?

 

Mind if I ask for your thoughts?

[golfinbrad]

This is a difficult one to answer.  I think there is a limit to your own swing being the best swing for you when you first start.  No question you have to have solid fundamentals that will allow you to build a repeatable swing.  Then there are a slew of other factors like when you started playing, how long, athletic ability, age, flexibility, time, etc.  I think it is common for beginners to think they can figure it out themselves or are embarrassed to ask for help.  I strongly recommend at least getting feedback from a PGA Professional or a very knowledge player, especially if you want to improve, which I think we all do.   I've been playing for over 40 years, so some of my idiosyncrasies are not going to change or at least at this point I am not spending 20+ hours on the range.  I do have a couple guys who give me a quick look when I start to struggle.  Almost always comes back to setup. 

[RobToTheT]

I should have mentioned - I am deep in lessons/training. I basically had to go back to the beginning and build it back up the right way. Proper PGA coach with a lot of attention and focus given. So in saying my mechanics are now sound - that's from my guy and not my own take, which I feel good about to be honest because its been a fair amount of work.

[kiawah]

Tough to say without seeing your golf swing to evaluate how strong it is. I've seen lots of guys who can really play with swings that most instructors wouldn't teach. 

 

Also, I find it easier to make a grip change by working on it incrementally. Make it a couple degrees more neutral for a week's worth of range time. Then once that feels ok, go a little further. Repeat until you're used to the way it feels and are at the desired "end point." It can be hard and sometimes demoralizing trying to make a big change overnight. Patience is key.

[Pepperturbo]

6 minutes ago, RobToTheT said:

Hi folks. First time poster/long-time reader with a general question and a specific one.

 

I'm curious if you've reached a point where you feel you have your own swing vs "the swing you are supposed to have." And if so, at what point did you find you started to make it your own? 

 

My sense is all good swings have about 80 - 85% in common. But obviously even at the elite level guys have different grips, back swings, footwork, pivots, follow-through, etc. 

 

For me, I am hitting the major check points throughout my swing but now that I've worked on it pretty intentionally I feel like I've hit a point where there really is a fork in the road. Back when I started I found my way to a strong grip (really strong) to solve for some bad mechanics. Now that my mechanics are better and I really push through and finish properly, the impact of that strong grip are more pronounced unless I work to offset it in another way.

 

So my fork is either work on a more neutral grip or work on being consistent in impact-to-follow-though that matches my swing pattern - basically more of that upper-cut style from impact to finish path (Hovland has this). And I much prefer the later though most would say work on the neutral grip, which I can not stand feel-wise. It throws everything off. I realize I could go to work on that specifically for the next however many months to make it my new feel. But why not just focus on finishing the right way for the way my swing works now?

 

Mind if I ask for your thoughts?

Agree with the general tone, and maybe yes, maybe no. 

 

We talk about having our own swings, but the truth is all of our swings are similar in that each must meet basic criteria to get the club head on the ball.  How we get there may differ.  Can't say I purposely made my own swing, just say I do the best I can with what I have.

 

Starting at 40yrs old, self-taught using 3-books, and using a neutral Vardon grip, I reached an index of 2 inside six years.  I attribute that success to athleticism, choosing the right sources to listen to and an intense practice regime.  In other words, I wasn't hell-bent on being an individual at any cost.  I've always focused on good golf as opposed to upheaval, yikes, and what the hell was that, golf. LOL 

 

For specific reasons, I understand, a larger majority of tour players use a more neutral grip.  They have fewer problems, as a direct result.  Those that have strong grips have to cope with variable criteria.  If that's important, it doesn't mean you should change your grip; it means deal with the inherent problems and don't look for short-cuts. 

 

As for your last question: The answer only comes with age: known problems are easier to deal with than being blindsided with unknown problems. 

[Jugs]

Sounds like staying with what's yours and tightening that up is the way to go, hard to go wrong there.    Swing your swing, not someone else's idea. 

[MountainKing]

The swing your own swing movement is the worst.  Half the guys who use that quote have great swings with tiny quirks to them.  The only way it works is if you already have a good base to start from.

[otto6457]

"My swing" when I was six years old was trash.  It's better now that Iearned the proper way to swing a golf club after years of training, tournaments, and many lessons with an effective swing coach. 

 

If you are not happy with "your swing" and the results you get from "your swing", then you obviously want to do something different.  You want to change "your swing". 

 

Sorry, and maybe I'm just being grumpy today, but if "your swing" isn't good enough for the golf you want to play, then you need a better swing.  That swing will not be the "your swing" you currently have.

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, RobToTheT said:

I should have mentioned - I am deep in lessons/training. I basically had to go back to the beginning and build it back up the right way. Proper PGA coach with a lot of attention and focus given. So in saying my mechanics are now sound - that's from my guy and not my own take, which I feel good about to be honest because its been a fair amount of work.

 

If you've got a good coach that you trust, and basically solid mechanics to work from, why are you asking a bunch of yahoos on the internet? 😉 

 

IMHO if you've gotten to where you are with a good coach and the coach says your mechanics are decent, it should be about tweaking, not a "swing change". Talk with your coach about what areas of your game you feel aren't where you want them to be. Maybe based on your physical attributes there are tweaks that match you up better to reduce what you perceive as the stuff you don't like. But I'm pretty sure a coach who got you into a movement pattern he already likes isn't going to advocate you overhaul anything. 

 

The key is if you have someone you trust, you need to talk to him about what you need to do to extend your current good stuff and get better. 

 

What you're doing is like seeing a doctor who got your cholesterol and BP in line where they should be and then asking the internet "should I eat a bunch of bacon?"

[Divot License]

12 hours ago, RobToTheT said:

Hi folks. First time poster/long-time reader with a general question and a specific one.

 

I'm curious if you've reached a point where you feel you have your own swing vs "the swing you are supposed to have." And if so, at what point did you find you started to make it your own? 

 

My sense is all good swings have about 80 - 85% in common. But obviously even at the elite level guys have different grips, back swings, footwork, pivots, follow-through, etc. 

 

For me, I am hitting the major check points throughout my swing but now that I've worked on it pretty intentionally I feel like I've hit a point where there really is a fork in the road. Back when I started I found my way to a strong grip (really strong) to solve for some bad mechanics. Now that my mechanics are better and I really push through and finish properly, the impact of that strong grip are more pronounced unless I work to offset it in another way.

 

So my fork is either work on a more neutral grip or work on being consistent in impact-to-follow-though that matches my swing pattern - basically more of that upper-cut style from impact to finish path (Hovland has this). And I much prefer the later though most would say work on the neutral grip, which I can not stand feel-wise. It throws everything off. I realize I could go to work on that specifically for the next however many months to make it my new feel. But why not just focus on finishing the right way for the way my swing works now?

 

Mind if I ask for your thoughts?

One thing I will say is consider any physical limitations on the swing you have.

I have two major injuries from my teenage years that affect my swing significantly. I separated my left shoulder which limits its mobility and range of motion, it's uncomfortable and difficult for me to lay my left arm across my chest so I can't get arm depth in the swing without an excessive backswing. I also shattered my right wrist and lower arm which resulted in my right wrist only having about 37 degrees of extension. This was confirmed by a TPI assessment. These injuries prevent me from making certain motions in the swing so have to be factored into any changes being made. 

 

In regards to the grip I made a post a couple of years ago in another thread that might help you with your decision. Ultimately I believe it's about doing what works for you (without going to an unsustainable extreme) 

 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

12 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

If you've got a good coach that you trust, and basically solid mechanics to work from, why are you asking a bunch of yahoos on the internet? 😉 

 

IMHO if you've gotten to where you are with a good coach and the coach says your mechanics are decent, it should be about tweaking, not a "swing change". Talk with your coach about what areas of your game you feel aren't where you want them to be. Maybe based on your physical attributes there are tweaks that match you up better to reduce what you perceive as the stuff you don't like. But I'm pretty sure a coach who got you into a movement pattern he already likes isn't going to advocate you overhaul anything. 

 

The key is if you have someone you trust, you need to talk to him about what you need to do to extend your current good stuff and get better. 

 

What you're doing is like seeing a doctor who got your cholesterol and BP in line where they should be and then asking the internet "should I eat a bunch of bacon?"

The answer is “yes, always eat a bunch of bacon… but leave out the carbs.” 🤓

[RobToTheT]

16 hours ago, kiawah said:

Tough to say without seeing your golf swing to evaluate how strong it is. I've seen lots of guys who can really play with swings that most instructors wouldn't teach. 

 

Also, I find it easier to make a grip change by working on it incrementally. Make it a couple degrees more neutral for a week's worth of range time. Then once that feels ok, go a little further. Repeat until you're used to the way it feels and are at the desired "end point." It can be hard and sometimes demoralizing trying to make a big change overnight. Patience is key.

Makes a ton of sense and is probably worth trying for me - just adjusting slightly bit by bit vs picking up the club entirely differently in one step.

[RobToTheT]

4 hours ago, Divot License said:

One thing I will say is consider any physical limitations on the swing you have.

I have two major injuries from my teenage years that affect my swing significantly. I separated my left shoulder which limits its mobility and range of motion, it's uncomfortable and difficult for me to lay my left arm across my chest so I can't get arm depth in the swing without an excessive backswing. I also shattered my right wrist and lower arm which resulted in my right wrist only having about 37 degrees of extension. This was confirmed by a TPI assessment. These injuries prevent me from making certain motions in the swing so have to be factored into any changes being made. 

 

In regards to the grip I made a post a couple of years ago in another thread that might help you with your decision. Ultimately I believe it's about doing what works for you (without going to an unsustainable extreme) 

 

 

 

Thanks for the thread reference. I see I am gripping the club too high now...

[RobToTheT]

14 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

If you've got a good coach that you trust, and basically solid mechanics to work from, why are you asking a bunch of yahoos on the internet? 😉 

 

IMHO if you've gotten to where you are with a good coach and the coach says your mechanics are decent, it should be about tweaking, not a "swing change". Talk with your coach about what areas of your game you feel aren't where you want them to be. Maybe based on your physical attributes there are tweaks that match you up better to reduce what you perceive as the stuff you don't like. But I'm pretty sure a coach who got you into a movement pattern he already likes isn't going to advocate you overhaul anything. 

 

The key is if you have someone you trust, you need to talk to him about what you need to do to extend your current good stuff and get better. 

 

What you're doing is like seeing a doctor who got your cholesterol and BP in line where they should be and then asking the internet "should I eat a bunch of bacon?"

I'm just another yahoo on the internet is well I suppose... To be honest that is what prompted my question here. He and I got to a point where I think we realized I'm not going to be able to ever really swing his swing and we shifted to working a bit more on my swing. I know it is nuance, and sometimes finding the right words to convey body mechanics and feels are difficult to align on, but through the process I guess the best way to say it is I was having trouble really committing to a full body type release (Milo Lines as an online instructor for example). I rotate through fine and use the ground well, but I've gone about as far as I can with his pattern. So now we're sort of going the last ten percent based on my pattern. It's been a very interesting journey for me as it is the first time I've ever worked with someone to this degree and had really good results from the process. 

[DShepley]

15 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

If you've got a good coach that you trust, and basically solid mechanics to work from, why are you asking a bunch of yahoos on the internet? 😉 

 

IMHO if you've gotten to where you are with a good coach and the coach says your mechanics are decent, it should be about tweaking, not a "swing change". Talk with your coach about what areas of your game you feel aren't where you want them to be. Maybe based on your physical attributes there are tweaks that match you up better to reduce what you perceive as the stuff you don't like. But I'm pretty sure a coach who got you into a movement pattern he already likes isn't going to advocate you overhaul anything. 

 

The key is if you have someone you trust, you need to talk to him about what you need to do to extend your current good stuff and get better. 

 

What you're doing is like seeing a doctor who got your cholesterol and BP in line where they should be and then asking the internet "should I eat a bunch of bacon?"

Golf instruction is like bacon.....it's very tasty and hard to resist!

[Canada8888]

During the winter I work with a coach once a week and practice indoors every day.  I try and keep my attention on what the coach has recommended and make changes.

 

In summer it takes a few games to stop thinking about "golf swing" and switch to just a pure intent to "create a shot".

 

So in a sense, each summer I switch to not thinking about swing and just "swing my own swing"

[kiawah]

1 hour ago, RobToTheT said:

Makes a ton of sense and is probably worth trying for me - just adjusting slightly bit by bit vs picking up the club entirely differently in one step.

I just think it's so hard to try to make drastic changes overnight. Whenever I try to do that, I find myself heading to the first tee hoping and praying the changes would "stick." They never do. But, if you just make changes more gradually, you are giving your body and brain a lot more time to get used to what you're trying to change and I actually find that the desired changes actually tend to happen quicker. If you are gradually making changes over a couple of weeks, you're still gonna be able to play all right and you'll keep noticing and learning things about the change you're making. If you try to change too much too quickly, it's gonna be hard to play decent and commit to what you're changing. Best of luck. Improving your grip can be tedious but well worth it.

[nikos74]

I think you should maximize the efficiency of your current swing profile before deciding on a more radical approach.  Sometimes that last ten percent of tweaking can make a big difference.

[naval2006]

18 hours ago, MountainKing said:

The swing your own swing movement is the worst.  Half the guys who use that quote have great swings with tiny quirks to them.  The only way it works is if you already have a good base to start from.

I wanted to say this, but I'm late.  Anyway, I'd say it differently: you own your swing when it's been put to the test through time and competition and it's worked.  Most of those swings contain some kind of blemish you can work on, but all in all they are efficient. 

 

In the case of grip it's easy to diagnose:  your left hand is strong but you can still play without being a juggler or not.  I've seen a couple of golfers who say "my left hand is B. Langer strong" but they hit one shot to the target just by chance.  And I've also seen a bunch of very good golfers with a strong grip; they all have in common their above average handeye coordination.   

 

In the OP's case I think ball flight and ability to score dictate if he needs to change his grip or not.   

[SNIPERBBB]

18 hours ago, MountainKing said:

The swing your own swing movement is the worst.  Half the guys who use that quote have great swings with tiny quirks to them.  The only way it works is if you already have a good base to start from.

Sometimes you have a faulty base that cannot be fixed.  Usually this due to previous injuries(see Tiger) or just the way you were built. You have to build your swing around those limitations. If you have a good fixer coach, they can help build a swing that can help you build a swing that takes those limitations into account. Coaches that teach to a model probably arent the ones that will help.

 

I think guys that take lessons a lot fail to take ownership of their swing and are stuck in drill land. They forget to make the micro adjustments when it comes to actually hitting the ball to make things work, main one being ball position

[Nard_S]

Grip changes are not a major deal to adjust to. Much harder to change bigger motor patterns, if those are better, far easier to tweak to a revised grip that fits better. Ball flight dictates degree of change. Might take 6 weeks, if that, to find comfort with it.

[mgoblue83]

1 hour ago, Nard_S said:

Grip changes are not a major deal to adjust to. Much harder to change bigger motor patterns, if those are better, far easier to tweak to a revised grip that fits better. Ball flight dictates degree of change. Might take 6 weeks, if that, to find comfort with it.

 

I understand where you are coming from but I think a lot of instructors will say the opposite. Changing your grip is incredibly difficult for a lot of players and sometimes it just won't work.

 

Personally, I can't even swing a club with a weak grip without sharp pain in my left wrist. It just won't work and I've attempted the change multiple times because my miss is left. 2 handicap, good ball striker and generally play a strong grip fade. Wish I could play a neutral grip draw but again the pain is just something that I can't play through or get used to. 

 

[Nard_S]

3 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

I understand where you are coming from but I think a lot of instructors will say the opposite. Changing your grip is incredibly difficult for a lot of players and sometimes it just won't work.

 

Personally, I can't even swing a club with a weak grip without sharp pain in my left wrist. It just won't work and I've attempted the change multiple times because my miss is left. 2 handicap, good ball striker and generally play a strong grip fade. Wish I could play a neutral grip draw but again the pain is just something that I can't play through or get used to. 

 

If you are doing better things with swing path and impact conditions but ball has a too left bias and grip is exceedingly strong, it's an easy tweak. Takes weeks. Will say, how grip change affects hands at top ought to be watched. If strong works, then fine go with it, but as things get better, things need to be decompensated too or else you'll revert to past patterns based on those things remaining. To my mind, his coach is correct in his logic.

 

My grip is textbook neutral, played with weak for decades, always disliked strong but I don't think it's wrong to use that if it matches up with patterns and desired outcome.

[golferdude54]

7 hours ago, Nard_S said:

Grip changes are not a major deal to adjust to. Much harder to change bigger motor patterns, if those are better, far easier to tweak to a revised grip that fits better. Ball flight dictates degree of change. Might take 6 weeks, if that, to find comfort with it.

 

Bottom hand grip changes are much easier to change than top hand. Way too many times I see players say they're trying to weaken their top hand and they regrip at address and the V still points far outside their back shoulder with the glove logo pointing straight out.

[RobToTheT]

Thanks everyone for the replies - looks like my daily posts are capped for the moment so can't reply individually. But in total I appreciate the input. It's sort of a house of cards in a way where each tweak has a cascading effect across the whole of the system. I'd like to minimize the ripple effect and so small tweaks vs a new thing altogether.

 

The idea of small/incremental change on the grip is the path I'm planning to explore. Just a bit more confidence the left hook is less likely would go a long way for me and I think the best path to it from where I'm at now is a little on the grip (the new part) and a little on the follow-through (what I'm already working on to solve for it).

[betarhoalphadelta]

5 hours ago, RobToTheT said:

 

 

Just a bit more confidence the left hook is less likely would go a long way for me

 

 

May not have anything to do with your left hook miss, but you may want to read the below thread. One little tiny change to ensure I don't tilt my head and it cleaned up most of my left hook miss. 

 

Then there's this one which is similar.

 

 

[RobToTheT]

5 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

May not have anything to do with your left hook miss, but you may want to read the below thread. One little tiny change to ensure I don't tilt my head and it cleaned up most of my left hook miss. 

 

Then there's this one which is similar.

 

 

I'm on this one tomorrow - have never really given a thought to this topic. But seeing how I lose more strokes to bad aim than anything else I'm going to give this a look asap. My aim is comically bad and now I wonder if my head angle at address might be part of it - like one of those things that no one has ever noticed when we play but if someone did, everyone would say "oh - yeah - I've always noticed that..."

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, RobToTheT said:

I'm on this one tomorrow - have never really given a thought to this topic. But seeing how I lose more strokes to bad aim than anything else I'm going to give this a look asap. My aim is comically bad and now I wonder if my head angle at address might be part of it - like one of those things that no one has ever noticed when we play but if someone did, everyone would say "oh - yeah - I've always noticed that..."

Aiming correctly is fundamental, as is finding a way to drill it into your skull that this is primary and more important than swing tweaks, so it's time to get over being comically bad at it. 

 

Why is it bad? Do you not line up behind the ball and pick a target 12 inches in front of the ball to align to? If your aim is really bad it's worth picking a spot behind the ball too as this helps with calibration when we step in. 

 

Really, aiming badly is almost inexcusable. 

Edited May 11 by TheDeanAbides

[betarhoalphadelta]

14 hours ago, RobToTheT said:

I'm on this one tomorrow - have never really given a thought to this topic. But seeing how I lose more strokes to bad aim than anything else I'm going to give this a look asap. My aim is comically bad and now I wonder if my head angle at address might be part of it - like one of those things that no one has ever noticed when we play but if someone did, everyone would say "oh - yeah - I've always noticed that..."

 

Good luck! If it actually DOES help, it's a game-changer because fixing head tilt is a hell of a lot easier than fixing swing mechanics. 

 

Also recommend you video your swing if you aren't currently. Often we think we're doing something we're not doing and video can keep that there for checkpointing, or comparing trends over long periods of time where you think nothing has changed and then you look at it on video and ask "when did I get that bad habit?"

 

6 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Aiming correctly is fundamental, as is finding a way to drill it into your skull that this is primary and more important than swing tweaks, so it's time to get over being comically bad at it. 

 

Why is it bad? Do you not line up behind the ball and pick a target 12 inches in front of the ball to align to? If your aim is really bad it's worth picking a spot behind the ball too as this helps with calibration when we step in. 

 

Really, aiming badly is almost inexcusable. 

 

That's a good point. I never really do that. It's not that I ever thought my aim was bad, but if I'm leaving strokes out there without even realizing it, that's another easy thing to clean up. 

 

I think I'll give this a shot on my round tomorrow and see how it goes. 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Good luck! If it actually DOES help, it's a game-changer because fixing head tilt is a hell of a lot easier than fixing swing mechanics. 

 

Also recommend you video your swing if you aren't currently. Often we think we're doing something we're not doing and video can keep that there for checkpointing, or comparing trends over long periods of time where you think nothing has changed and then you look at it on video and ask "when did I get that bad habit?"

 

 

That's a good point. I never really do that. It's not that I ever thought my aim was bad, but if I'm leaving strokes out there without even realizing it, that's another easy thing to clean up. 

 

I think I'll give this a shot on my round tomorrow and see how it goes. 

Good players always refer back to the simple things first.