Ball roll on "hard" versus "soft" fairways

[Freddy300]

Harder tour fairways???

I played yesterday and was paired up with two guys. One was a gregarious fellow. I would guess he hit the ball about 230 to 240 yards. I would guess my drives can go 200 to maybe 230 - I need a Sky Caddie but they are pricey. I was trying to make small talk with these fellows. I asked if they saw Phil's shot etc etc. I said yeah Phil hits long drives and 3 woods.

The talkative guy then said here in Florida the fairways are so soft that the balls never roll very far. He said if he played on those tour courses you get minimum 50 yard ball rolls on the fairway. He said he thought he could hit them just as far on the tour courses. I thought he was semi BS'ing me but he said it with a straight face. I know the difference between carry distance (on the fly) versus total distance.

My eyesight even with contacts correcting to roughly 20/20 is not that great so I sometimes have a hard time seeing the ball roll. However, it sure seems on the range and on the course that a ball in FL rolls about 20 yards on avg on a drive. FL has a sandy soil and I wonder if states with clay soils have a longer ball roll on a fairway/

Was this guy a BS artist or do the balls landing on the fairways on the tour roll farther?

[larrybud]

The tour plays on a mix of fairway types. I've seen a number of times balls hit and roll 5 or 10 yards and other times the ball bound 50 yards.

 

They don't play ALL their tournaments in Florida.

[bubrave21]

Courses that the PGA Tour stops at are only "tour firm" for that one week of the year.

 

If they kept their greens and fairways that short and dry throughout the entire season it would be bad news.

 

For example, I played at Harbour Town Golf Links in the middle of March, 3 weeks before the Verizon Heritage. Not even close to being as firm and fast as it was for the tournament. It was like playing on any other course in the Southeast in March.

[frozen_rope]

In the month prior to hosting a Tour event the course superintendent usually waters less and starts cutting the fairway grass lower. This has the effect of making the tee balls bounce and roll much farther than the course usually plays.

 

 

I played yesterday and was paired up with two guys. One was a gregarious fellow. I would guess he hit the ball about 230 to 240 yards. I would guess my drives can go 200 to maybe 230 - I need a Sky Caddie but they are pricey. I was trying to make small talk with these fellows. I asked if they saw Phil's shot etc etc. I said yeah Phil hits long drives and 3 woods.

 

The talkative guy then said here in Florida the fairways are so soft that the balls never roll very far. He said if he played on those tour courses you get minimum 50 yard ball rolls on the fairway. He said he thought he could hit them just as far on the tour courses. I thought he was semi BS'ing me but he said it with a straight face. I know the difference between carry distance (on the fly) versus total distance.

 

My eyesight even with contacts correcting to roughly 20/20 is not that great so I sometimes have a hard time seeing the ball roll. However, it sure seems on the range and on the course that a ball in FL rolls about 20 yards on avg on a drive. FL has a sandy soil and I wonder if states with clay soils have a longer ball roll on a fairway/

 

Was this guy a BS artist or do the balls landing on the fairways on the tour roll farther?

[mat562]

If your man was driving it 230-240 yards, he's still about 20-30 yards short of how far the average tour pro carries the ball, regardless of how firm the fairways may be. The longer hitters on tour carry it upwards of 280 yards routinely and sometimes appreciably more than that.

[Onebulldogs]

Yes and No. Growing up, I played a muni course in the Dallas area with absolutely ZERO irregation of the fairways and rough. Needless to say, the ball hit hard and rolled a country mile. If you play on muni courses in dry, hot areas, you can get that kind of roll.

 

Luckily, most of us don't play at "hardpan muni" and we get irrigated fairways. To keep the grass green and healthy, they let it grow out for most of the year. When the tour comes to town, they lower the mower blades, reduce water on the fairways and greens, and generally speed up the course.

[bubrave21]

To quote my golf course super: "The worst thing that happened to regular golf courses was the stimpmeter. Now everyone wants to putt on tour-fast greens year round and it can't be done without killing them."

 

Top-dressing, however, can at least help greens roll a little faster without starving them of water or cutting them down dangerously short. But it still can't get tour-like speeds.

[frozen_rope]

It's more work to keep tee boxes, fairways, and greens cut low and playing fast.

This is why superintendents don't like to do it.

 

To quote my golf course super: "The worst thing that happened to regular golf courses was the stimpmeter. Now everyone wants to putt on tour-fast greens year round and it can't be done without killing them."

 

Top-dressing, however, can at least help greens roll a little faster without starving them of water or cutting them down dangerously short. But it still can't get tour-like speeds.

[Freddy300]

If your man was driving it 230-240 yards, he's still about 20-30 yards short of how far the average tour pro carries the ball, regardless of how firm the fairways may be. The longer hitters on tour carry it upwards of 280 yards routinely and sometimes appreciably more than that.

 

Yeah - the guy was a blowing a bit of smoke. Nice guy but I noticed he was using his foot in the fairway to improve his lie. he was not trying to hide it but that is not my cup of tea.

 

I am not a "take a mulligan" kind of guy. If I hit a lousy shot (and I do regularly) I hit it from where it is or take a stroke penalty if it cannot behit or punched out.

 

BTW - the PGA web site average drive is that carry or total? I think they list both but the avg guy's avg drive is around 285 yards I think.

 

230-240 is nothing special. I am getting back into golf and trying to get there. I need to sign up for a gym again and use it. Still 230 yards consistently in the fairway is something I could live with.

 

Golf mags club test should avg joe testers distances and most are less than 230 yards.

[Freddy300]

Yes and No. Growing up, I played a muni course in the Dallas area with absolutely ZERO irregation of the fairways and rough. Needless to say, the ball hit hard and rolled a country mile. If you play on muni courses in dry, hot areas, you can get that kind of roll.

 

Luckily, most of us don't play at "hardpan muni" and we get irrigated fairways. To keep the grass green and healthy, they let it grow out for most of the year. When the tour comes to town, they lower the mower blades, reduce water on the fairways and greens, and generally speed up the course.

 

So the tour guys are not that much better than the avg accomplished duffer? ;-) Just kidding. Yeah it is weird watching PGA events and the balls on the fairway appear to roll for miles sometimes.

 

We had a PGA event in the winter when lighting caused problems. The local golf paper said then had them shaved within 1/500th of soemthing - something very precise. In FL if they keep them that shaved they will burn the course.

[bubrave21]

If your man was driving it 230-240 yards, he's still about 20-30 yards short of how far the average tour pro carries the ball, regardless of how firm the fairways may be. The longer hitters on tour carry it upwards of 280 yards routinely and sometimes appreciably more than that.

 

Many of my friends and I (0-3 handicappers) probably hit the ball just as long as most tour pros. They make their living off of 100 yards and in and would make us look silly around the green. Example: One of my friends drove a green that was 320 yards, on the carry (the divot was on the green). He happens to be 6'8" and has unreal clubhead speed. He can also miss 3 fairways to the left quite often. He 3 putted for par...

[wpfisher]

I sometimes, repeat sometimes can carry a ball 280-290 on my course, usually get 10-20 yards roll. On a PGa tour course, I would almost expect 30plus on a roll. Mickelson hit a drive at either 8 or 9 at colonial 376 yards. I would bet it only carried about 300 or so, then rolled about 70 yards. It was down wind as well. So yes, everyone would hit the ball maybe ten or twenty yards further on a pga track. But like everyone has said, impossible to keep the course like that year round, or even for a month. Augusta National shuts down from May to October to its members for that very cause.

[golfdad907]

In the month prior to hosting a Tour event the course superintendent usually waters less and starts cutting the fairway grass lower. This has the effect of making the tee balls bounce and roll much farther than the course usually plays.

 

 

Believe it or not, I've seen this. When former Western Open moved from Butler National to Cog Hill, the tour had all the white 'sugar' sand removed from the traps (you could loose balls in those traps the sand was so soft and deep) and replaced with 1/5 inch layer of firmer tan colored sand, so pros wouldn't be 'emabarrassed' with plug lies in steep faces.

 

Anyway, back to fairways, so we're playing the former 18th on COurse 2, a 210 yard par 3 that paralleled #18 at Dub's (#4 course), we hear this diesel engine getting closer and are wondering, WTF? Turns out to be a CAT Steamroller with about an 8ft diameter drum, rolling the fairway on Dubs #18.

 

I've also played with Superintendant from Bent Tree in Dallas, where used to hold Bank One Senior TOur event. He told me that the Champions (former Senior) tour disctated fairways run at least a 9 on stimp, greens NO faster than 10.5.

 

So when you see PGA guys tee shots bounce 30 ft in the air, maybe this will provide some insight.

 

Just got back from Orlando, played Mostly Disney tracks, Osprey is still open, and those fairways don't roll hardly at all.