Golf Course Superintendent Ready to Answer Any Questions You May Have

[rangersgoalie]

> @BNGL said:

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > kikuyu infestation in many areas.......

> > seems eradication is next to impossible without a massive project??

>

>

> Kikuyu is very tough to get rid of, even if you use a nonselective herbicide such as roundup, but it would likely return and the glyphosate would also harm the surrounding creating weak/bare areas allowing the kikuyu to reestablish. You can use roundup but I would use a brush and only apply it to the kikuyu not the surrounding turf.

> Reached out to a sup friend from California, there is a product called monument, which is labeled for Kikuyu suppression. There is another product called Drive XL that I don't think is explicitly labeled for it, but does help curtail Kikuyu growth and is labeled for both warm and cool season growth.

 

Thanks!

 

I remember when I was working on a course in 1985-86 we absolutely BOMBED two holes with roundup on two different applications a few weeks apart. Killed everything but the greens.

 

Regrassed with common Bermuda, and withing 2 years there was Kikuyu starting back in some of the areas. BAck then, gassing was the only foolproof I was told. Kikuyu is just a tough mother.

[augustgolf]

Like torpedo grass in SoFla

[poppyhillsguy]

I have been working (my side hustle) on a golf course maintenance staff for 5 years. The longer I work there the more I think I'd like to abandon my career in sales. Is being 50 and going back to school to get a Turf Management Certificate from U.C. Riverside the right path for me? The course I'm working for will not promote me until I get a certification.

[mallrat]

> @poppyhillsguy said:

> I have been working (my side hustle) on a golf course maintenance staff for 5 years. The longer I work there the more I think I'd like to abandon my career in sales. Is being 50 and going back to school to get a Turf Management Certificate from U.C. Riverside the right path for me? The course I'm working for will not promote me until I get a certification.

 

Not sure if this helps but I was kind of in the same boat. I became a stay at home dad years ago and needed something part time when our son started school. Well that was 4-5 years ago. I managed restaurants for 15+ years and was kind of tired with it. When I started doing this I just loved it.

 

Fast forward a few years and i’ve got a job as a 2nd Asst., in school for my associates for Turfcare (online, PM me if you have any questions as I did a ton of research) and am taking my spray test in Dec. I don’t make much money but have never been happier.

 

In short, if you have a 2nd income (wife), go for it.

[smashdn]

Bluemuda - what do you know? From what I read it could be the magic bullet in the transition zone. But rarely are things as good as they seem.

[BNGL]

> @poppyhillsguy said:

> I have been working (my side hustle) on a golf course maintenance staff for 5 years. The longer I work there the more I think I'd like to abandon my career in sales. Is being 50 and going back to school to get a Turf Management Certificate from U.C. Riverside the right path for me? The course I'm working for will not promote me until I get a certification.

 

Well obviously I think it’s great that you’d want to take that step, and encourage anyone to pursue any endeavor no matter their time in life if they can mentally/physically/economically make the changes. But ultimately the choice of right path for me can only be answered by you. What I can tell you is that, my hours as an intern and assistant were long and arduous, but I met a lot of fantastic people, worked some of the best golf courses in the world, and worked with some of the finest people in the world.

 

I told assistants that good help was hard to find, because you needed to find people that feel the same way you do, this is career for me, and a job for others...there is a difference. A career means going back to the club at 5ish to drag a hose out to a couple of greens because the humidity dropped...even though you had been there from 430 AM to 3 PM and you just want to sit on the couch and enjoy a beer. If you have the means to essentially restart, a second income (because low man on the totem doesn't make much although theres usually plenty of OT).

 

That is probably the worst non answer ever, but all I can say is that I think it is wonderful that you would consider pursuing that endeavor and starting the next chapter of your life in golf course management. Let me know if I can be of assistance, augustgolf on here is a terrific help as is mallrat...both are great sources of knowledge and would be glad to help you.

 

[BNGL]

> @smashdn said:

> Bluemuda - what do you know? From what I read it could be the magic bullet in the transition zone. But rarely are things as good as they seem.

 

A lot. I do not know first hand about growing it in the transition zone, but I know what I have grown in central and south florida. You're right it is not magic bullet, but which do you wanna manage? Cool season grass in the heat and humidity? or Warm season grass in the cold? For me Bermuda goes dormant I don't have to do too much, the turf firms up greens get fast from no growth... sign me up! One thing a lot of golfers don't care for is the brown, but formulas for dyes are getting so good that you can just spray it and have it be a natural green look. For us with our celebration, tif eagle, tif dwarf, champion, tif grand grasses that we managed the goal for us was make it to about Valentines Day, if we can get through that time with no major problems then we were fine because we knew that the growing days were going to start increasing. But we never really shut down totally there was still some growth, now maybe it meant mowing fairways on Monday and Friday instead of Monday-Wednesday-Friday. If the plant were to totally shut down we would have had issues of traffic management, divots not growing back in etc so you have to evaluate what you are from a traffic standpoint, environmental standpoint, and budget standpoint.

[dhc1]

> @BNGL said:

> > @smashdn said:

> > Bluemuda - what do you know? From what I read it could be the magic bullet in the transition zone. But rarely are things as good as they seem.

>

> One thing a lot of golfers don't care for is the brown, but formulas for dyes are getting so good that you can just spray it and have it be a natural green look.

 

Can you please expand on this? Can you show examples? Would this work in the mid-atlantic so that we could have fast/firm and green (albeit sprayed)?

[smashdn]

> @BNGL said:

> > @smashdn said:

> > Bluemuda - what do you know? From what I read it could be the magic bullet in the transition zone. But rarely are things as good as they seem.

>

> One thing a lot of golfers don't care for is the brown, but formulas for dyes are getting so good that you can just spray it and have it be a natural green look.

 

For us here, the way I understand it, the HT bluegrass will continue to grow during summer along with the bermuda fairway grass and not be completely out-competed by it. And in early fall the bluegrass will begin to actively grow and thrive as the bermuda is going dormant. It is an "interseeding" and not an overseeding. My understanding is that it is not being done as a color thing but more as a playability thing. February and March and April can be heavy play months here. The dormant bermuda then is just in not good shape. Early fall dormant bermuda - great to play on. Late spring dormant bermuda - muddy mess. No courses around me have successfully kept their cool season fairways. Olde Stone went away from bent to zoysia. Even courses up towards louisville have gone to bermuda or zoysia fairways from various cool season varieties.

 

This course, and most courses around here, have never dyed their grass to be green. I really think it is only about playability.

 

I'm about 35 minutes north of Nashville for perspective. Just at the northern range where you can do dwarf bermuda greens. And that might even be a crap shoot if we get a hard winter or a thaw-freeze cycle.

[James the Hogan Fan]

 

So this is one of our typical drains and as you can see it is saturated from our recent heavy rains. I took those samples with a hole cutter and though I thought I took pictures of them, I guess I didn't or I can't find them. Anyway the growth around these drains is mostly poa anna, growing on about 3/8" of thatch, on top of a good inch of black, noxious ick, underneath which is a reasonable sublayer of sand (slightly finer than preferred but we can live with that. Below that, at about 8-10" is a clay deposit (to cap the landfill we are built on)

 

Anyway what I think happens is the area around the drain is not aerated properly (to avoid hitting the drain) which leaves thatch. The thatch does not allow the water to move through it easily, so the water does not breach the surface, but instead floods the leaf, while keeping the roots drier. The plant sends the roots deeper in response, which only serves to thicken the thatch and slow down the water, further inhibiting drainage and increasing the problem. The original fescue grass is drowned out and out-competed by the poa anna, and half the drains on the golf course become little swamps.

 

We have been cutting drain lines to these drains, (5cm perf. pipe in gravel) but I don't think that it will do a lot of good except in the immediate vicinity of the line because of how thick the thatch is. We literally have surface puddling a foot away from the drain.

 

 

What would be your professional assessment and plan of action?

[BNGL]

> @dhc1 said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @smashdn said:

> > > Bluemuda - what do you know? From what I read it could be the magic bullet in the transition zone. But rarely are things as good as they seem.

> >

> > One thing a lot of golfers don't care for is the brown, but formulas for dyes are getting so good that you can just spray it and have it be a natural green look.

>

> Can you please expand on this? Can you show examples? Would this work in the mid-atlantic so that we could have fast/firm and green (albeit sprayed)?

 

Uhm as far as photos? I do not. But most companies offer a dye now, milliken and grigg bros are two that I have used routinely in mixes with no problem. I can spray it and it won't adversely affect the turf, it won't look super tacky (if sprayed correctly at the right rates), and it does not clog up our machines.

 

Your fast and firm comes from the dormant turf, fast because the plant just simply isn't growing and firm because temperatures are generally falling and firming up the surface (also you're typically not running as much water). Would it work yeah, up there I simply do not know. It did in Florida, but again we really only had two-three weeks of no growth to worry about and once February arrived we knew we would be able to grow out of most of our problems. If you were to go with a strain of bermuda and not overseed, I would be extremely mindful of traffic because it wouldn't have the climatic factors to recover if needed which means you could be looking at damaged areas until spring arrives if you play year round.

[BNGL]

> @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

>

>

> So this is one of our typical drains and as you can see it is saturated from our recent heavy rains. I took those samples with a hole cutter and though I thought I took pictures of them, I guess I didn't or I can't find them. Anyway the growth around these drains is mostly poa anna, growing on about 3/8" of thatch, on top of a good inch of black, noxious ick, underneath which is a reasonable sublayer of sand (slightly finer than preferred but we can live with that. Below that, at about 8-10" is a clay deposit (to cap the landfill we are built on)

>

> Anyway what I think happens is the area around the drain is not aerated properly (to avoid hitting the drain) which leaves thatch. The thatch does not allow the water to move through it easily, so the water does not breach the surface, but instead floods the leaf, while keeping the roots drier. The plant sends the roots deeper in response, which only serves to thicken the thatch and slow down the water, further inhibiting drainage and increasing the problem. The original fescue grass is drowned out and out-competed by the poa anna, and half the drains on the golf course become little swamps.

>

> We have been cutting drain lines to these drains, (5cm perf. pipe in gravel) but I don't think that it will do a lot of good except in the immediate vicinity of the line because of how thick the thatch is. We literally have surface puddling a foot away from the drain.

>

>

> What would be your professional assessment and plan of action?

 

Just a hunch but that black noxious ick is more than likely black layer. All that means is that you have a solid layer metal sulphides that occur from hydrogen sulfide reacting with the metallic molecules in the soil. Ironically enough the fuel for the sulphur eating bacteria, which must be produced to release the hydrogen sulphide, are spurred on by water and organic matter. Which looking at the picture and your description, you have plenty of.

 

I would get a deep tine aerator in there as soon as possible, then pull cores and get some good sand in there. A dethatching treatment might not be a bad idea.

 

The next best thing to do is find better drainage, those corrugated pipes often collapse after some time and must be replaced. They can also be clogged in which case a dick head will need to be driven down there (a dick head is exactly what it sounds like, it is an attachment to a hose that is looped into a quick coupler and fed into the drainage line. It blows water at high pressure in a jet blasting away dirt and rock that maybe stuck in the pipe).

 

So just a quick recap; breakup that layer. Reduce thatch. increase drainage.

[augustgolf]

I'm surprised that your d-head is not censored.

 

I faced a similar issue where drain pipes clogged. I had to dig out collapsed/failed drain lines - replaced with an open ditch

 

No more "cleaning out." Happy to send pics. Too many to post here.

 

End result - a much more playable, drier fairway

[BNGL]

> @augustgolf said:

> I'm surprised that your d-head is not censored.

>

> I faced a similar issue where drain pipes clogged. I had to dig out collapsed/failed drain lines - replaced with an open ditch

>

> No more "cleaning out." Happy to send pics. Too many to post here.

>

> End result - a much more playable, drier fairway

 

I’m sure buzz will kill it momentarily...but that’s also the industry term!

[BNGL]

 

This is what we’re talking about in case anyone is curious...shoots a stream straight ahead and then blast last it back to help it feed through the pipe.

[BNGL]

https://jobs.gcsaa.org/jobseeker/search/results/

 

Augusta National and Pine Valley are looking for interns, graduates, 2nd assistants. If you are genuinely interested (and qualified) in furthering your professional turf career, it would be behoove you to apply for these positions. Pine Valley might be a more permanent position, but Augusta would be one to springboard you to anywhere.

[mallrat]

BNGL, do you know much about Augusta’s operations? I know a guy who did an internship at Augusta and regretted it. Didn’t get a ton of exposure to equipment and spent most of his time trimming bunker edges with those scissor things.

 

Just curious if this is a normal thing.

[BNGL]

> @mallrat said:

> BNGL, do you know much about Augusta’s operations? I know a guy who did an internship at Augusta and regretted it. Didn’t get a ton of exposure to equipment and spent most of his time trimming bunker edges with those scissor things.

>

> Just curious if this is a normal thing.

 

Yes that’s normal for interns (interns get the crap work anyways lol) I’d say. It’s not permanent position, your pay is maybe 11/hour and hours are what they are. But when I, or anyone else, sees ANGC on the resume he’s probably a pretty good employee who gets it and I don’t have to worry about at anytime.

[darpar1]

BNGL,do you recommend trimming the grass around green side sprinkler heads?

If so,how often and what do you use to do this normally time consuming task?

Thanks,from a volunteer worker at a local track!

[James the Hogan Fan]

At our course, once every 2-3 months. Usually 1-2 guys going at it all day.

We use a tool that somewhat resembles a hole-cutter but shallower with a 6" diameter and serrated teeth. Place over sprinkler, press, turn back and forth. We also have a power model. One must be careful not to it any control wires on/under the head.

Knife to clean the scraps, bucket to haul away.

[BNGL]

Depending on where you are, there’s power heads that attach to weed whips and it sets around it and edges it quickly. It tends to work better on sandy “lighter” soils. The other options are knives or even better the edgers with aerated teeth that just get twisted and turned around heads. Make sure to bring a bucket or blower to take care of the clippings.

 

my biggest pet peeve is detail work: edged and leveled sprinkler heads/valve boxes is number 1.

[mallrat]

I prefer using a knife. We do it every other month. Be careful with the edgers without serrated teeth, the grips will tear up your hands and I saw a knucklehead keep spinning it in one direction last year and ended up spinning the Can off the pipe.

[darpar1]

Thanks guys for the replies!

I've been in the process of designing/building a tool that will help speed up the time consuming process of trimming the grass around greenside sprinkler heads.At the course I volunteer at NOBODY wanted to do the task because the way they usually did it was by either using a carpet knife or a hand operated cutting tool....both very labor intensive,hard on the back and didn't always give the best results.

So in the last 8 months or so I've been testing/modifying and using my little creation with some pretty good success.Just last week I was able to trim all 18 holes greenside sprinkler heads, which total about 170 heads if you include the putting and chipping greens....in about 3-4 hrs. Of course the time depends on how busy the course and time of year....summer time takes a little longer as the grass naturally grows faster covering the heads a little more.

I can show the results of using the tool but I can't really show the tool itself,as I'm still testing it (mostly for it;s durability) and hopefully by spring time I'll probably apply for a patent. I've already been in contact with a patent att. The reason for posting this query is to see if there's even some potential,need,price point etc. for such a device and hopefully get a little feedback on my latest project.

Here's before and after pics of using it on some Toro 730 type sprinklers.

The same tool with a different cutter head (which takes about 30secs. to change), will also trim the Kirby style fwy. markers......14 holes takes less than 90mins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[darpar1]

Hmmmm,I was hoping for some feedback (good or bad) on what my little innovation/tool can do.It really is a time saver and in the golf course maintenance biz,time is $$.The super I work for is a real stickler for detail and can be a PITA to work for sometimes.But since I started working there about 8 mos or so ago,he pretty much leaves me alone to use and make modifications to the tool as I see fit....so I feel confident that I might be onto something that could work very well for others to use at their particular tracks,as long they have similar size and types of sprinkler heads.

Time will tell!

[James the Hogan Fan]

Well it' hard to leave feedback on something we can't see (as understandable as that is), but the cuts look good to start.

The critical thing for me would be weight. I was using the manual over the power auger because the power auger weighed in at 9 pounds and the manual about two.

And make sure it won't cut the control wires on a rainbird...

[mallrat]

Are the Rain Bird wires in a different location than Toros? I know of 1 guy cutting a wire trimming heads and I just don’t understand how.

 

i ask because I have only worked on Toro properties (with some Hunters thrown in)

[BNGL]

Ultimately it looks fine, if you can tighten up the edge it would be even better.

[darpar1]

Thanks guys for for the interest!

I wish I could display the tool, but on the advise of my attorney, showing pics of it on the internet would be a BIG mistake until I can get some form of protection from the USPTO....I hope you guys can understand my situation. As for the weight it's less than 6lbs. but now IT'S A TOOL THAT STANDS UP ON IT'S OWN,i.e. you don't have to lay it on the ground when you trim one head and remove the scraps of sod before moving on to the next sprinkler. I'm 68 yrs. old,and the first couple of versions DID lay on the ground and after cutting an average of 7-9 heads a green,by about the 10th hole I was worn out from having to bend over and pick this thing up off the ground.......... NO MORE OF THAT!.....I'll often go play 9-18 holes after I get done working.

At roughly $200 a sprinkler,I sure didn't want to screw any heads up or cut any solenoid wires.So I incorporated a feature that rides on the pop up and limits the depth of the cut.....it also helps to center the tool over each head making the trims more uniform and consistent....Also I've designed the cutter head to not only cut the outer circle of grass BUT it also removes most if not all of the sod between between the cut and the sprinkler head.So no need to use a knife to remove the remaining piece/pieces of sod in most instances.

Basically the more often you trim the heads,naturally the faster and better the results.I cut the greenside sprinkler heads,fairway markers and the tee box yardage markers each about once a month.The deal I have with the golf course requires me to volunteer just a couple hours a week in exchange for unlimited golf and range balls....probably saves me $5-6,000 a year.

Hopefully by springtime I'll have all the bugs/details worked out,and get this project moving forward with a viable/marketable product!

[James the Hogan Fan]

On our course the rainbirds are such that a little control solenoid is under the visor (for lack of a better word, the top disc that is wider than the rest of the housing) at the top of the housing. From ground movement or bad install apparently the little wires running this solenoid can get pushed out from under the protection of the visor and into the path of cutters if one goes too deep. I've never seen it done personally but our course apparently fired a guy over it.

[third-times-a-charm]

Bay Hill must use some sort of tool because the cuts around markers and sprinkler heads is always a perfect circle.

 

I was actually thinking about this the other day after seeing some really nice circle cuts around heads, and if the greens crew just walked around with deep-toothed hole-saws in various sizes it would get the job done quickly and easily. Cheaply, too.