one club swing feels perfect, the rest of the bag is not. opinions, please.

[Neige]

I would like to hear some opinions on this. (My scores are in mid 90s, driver SS~105, playing for ~2 years).

 

At the driving range I noticed there is one club that I swing much better than others, the 3-hybrid. This started a few weeks ago, and every time I go back I am anxious to see if last times were just a fluke or a one-time thing, and this time I would not have the same feeling and would be hitting it similar to the rest of the clubs. However, since every time I manage to get back in the same groove with it after a few swings, I am now starting to wonder what really makes me swing 3H better.

 

The feeling I have with the 3H is as if I am just swinging the club and at the point of max speed somebody placed a ball, so it just happens to be there, and the face of the club smashes it, then proceeds as if nothing happened. Two more points on the swing with this club - I do tend to finish very nicely with it - balanced full swing, and I’m swinging without any fear of missing the ball from the very takeaway, in fact I am not even trying to hit it, the moment the club swings back, the motion is out of my hands. It is almost like a small miracle I actually hit the ball – quite exciting and feels great.

 

Neither of the above two points happen with the remainder of the bag. With the irons, I always have to slow down to ensure I hit the ball, i.e. the fearlessness is long gone. If I do not slow down, I often hit behind the ball or other mishits can happen. With the woods I try to extend my arms through the impact - working on avoiding chicken wing and slicing, and can not achieve the same very balanced finish because of this.

 

I think it is the club length and sole that make this club different. The swing weights are very similar (D3-D4) throughout the bag, all the clubs are the same stiff flex etc. One more note, this is all on the mats, I do not think I will swing the 3H that well on the course.

 

Has that happened to you? What I am trying to figure out is how to reproduce the same swing with the rest of the clubs.

 

They say it is the same swing with all the clubs – I just don’t see it: short irons are so short, driver is so long, the swings are quite a bit different for me. Why would I want to rotate my torso the same large amount for a 100 yard shot with the pitching wedge as when hitting a 240 yards drive... the sinwgs have different planes etc...

 

Thanks for your comments.

[Grumpy bumpy]

There are about 4 different questions. 1st. Your hybrid is just a perfect club for YOU. I would guess the others may be just enough different for them to be uncomfortable.
2nd. Same swing. Your wedges are a different animal than the long irons and driver. They are played different.
As far as driver, the swing should be different because you need to create a certain amount of spine angle tilt to hit with an ascending angle of attack. Your irons are descending. But as far as hip and torso rotation, this is a key factor to involve in all club swings. If your hips and torso do not rotate through the swing, the shots you hit will be very inconsistent and much less distant. Arm swinging does not generate club head speed and proper A of A. As far as how much to turn, depends on your shot selection, but your mechanics basically should remain the same.
The amount to turn for a full swing from a 3 iron to a wedge is the same. Your loft determines the distance not howuch you turn on a full swing.
A lot of your miss hits sounds like your not transferring your weight to your left side, this maybe because your torso and hip rotation timing is not right.

[Neige]

You could be correct on many or all points, and thank you for your response. I just find it a bit hard to accomplish - rotating the same amount on a (full) wedge swing as on a 3-iron swing, but that's what everyone seems to say one should be doing. It feels so simpler and more reliable to rotate a bit less for short distances...

here is how I feel I rotate:

wedges - very little rotation, more vertical swing, little weight transfer.

9,8-irons - little bit more rotation and weight transfer

7,8,6 - rotate more

5,4,3 - rotating even more, full weight transfer

3H, 5W, 3W, 1W - full rotation, weight transfer, good pace and wraparound of the arms at the end of the swing.

With the wedges and irons, I feel I consciously slow down the pace from the top of the downswing in order to hit the center of the iron face, and have perfect direction of the ball flight. While with the woods, I do not slow down.

When I try to have more rotation with wedges and up to mid irons, the shots are not as consistent I would like. Yes, once in a while there is a perfect shot, but there is typically too much of the dispersion.

[animalgolfs]

This also equates to MOI matching question. Post this Elsewhere

[Neige]

[quote name='oldflgolfer' timestamp='1394648663' post='8856735']
This also equates to MOI matching question. Post this Elsewhere
[/quote]
To make sure I understand, do you mean the whole post is not in a proper forum (if yes, then what is a proper forum), or do you mean that if I had MOI data of my clubs, I then need to post that data in a different forum?
Thanks

[animalgolfs]

Yes, post in tech forum for some more insight. Generally, if one clubs feels just right, MOI plays a significant part of the equation.

[Neige]

[quote name='oldflgolfer' timestamp='1394653134' post='8857285']
Yes, post in tech forum for some more insight. Generally, if one clubs feels just right, MOI plays a significant part of the equation.
[/quote]
I thought the length was the main reason - irons feel a bit too short for the same swing, while woods get too long for the same 3H swing it feels like. Also the sole feels to me plays the role for me - the sole of the 3H is more forgiving than the low bounce soles of the irons, which gives confidence. However, you could be correct about the MOI. At least, I should try to measure it over a few clubs. Sorry if this is answered somewhere, but how do I go about measuring MOI's - just take my clubs to a store?
Thank you.

[Stuart_G]

No way to tell for sure. Could be length, could be weight (static, SW, or MOI), could be flex/bend profile, or it could be any combination of them. Seeing a good quality fitter might be able to help you figure it out and possibly adjust other clubs to give you a similar feel.

BTW - this forum is fine. It is an equipment/fitting question. Tech is more for building type questions although it would be fine there as well.

[animalgolfs]

Stuart is correct, they're too many variables involved. I was just pointing out another. As far as MOI goes, have a look at Tom Wishon site.

[Neige]

[quote name='oldflgolfer' timestamp='1394654490' post='8857443']
Stuart is correct, they're too many variables involved. I was just pointing out another. As far as MOI goes, have a look at Tom Wishon site.
[/quote]
Ok, thank you for ideas everyone.

[homergolf]

The best thing about what's going on with the 3h is that it brings hope in for the rest of your clubs. My magic club used to be my 6 iron, not that I'm that great of a ball-stiker now, but I've gotten a lot better with everything else (14 hdcp). If you can do it with that club, you can do it with the others, especially the shorter clubs. If you got a good teaching pro, my guess is they would start in with irons and give you a clue on what you should do to get better. Nothing better than a great approach shot. With an improved and consistent swing, there is no reason the magic can't be spread to the other clubs, including the driver. Good luck.

[Neige]

[quote name='homergolf' timestamp='1394713290' post='8861593']
The best thing about what's going on with the 3h is that it brings hope in for the rest of your clubs. My magic club used to be my 6 iron, not that I'm that great of a ball-stiker now, but I've gotten a lot better with everything else (14 hdcp). If you can do it with that club, you can do it with the others, especially the shorter clubs. If you got a good teaching pro, my guess is they would start in with irons and give you a clue on what you should do to get better. Nothing better than a great approach shot. With an improved and consistent swing, there is no reason the magic can't be spread to the other clubs, including the driver. Good luck.
[/quote]

Exactly! This is why I became so excited about it - thinking there is a good opportunity here to learn from the 3H swing and try to do the same with the rest of the clubs. It actually worked, but only with the fairway woods. They are usually not that easy for me to hit, but by swinging in the same way as with the 3H, I definetely improved my shots with 5W and 3W. They, of course, happen to be not far off in terms of the shaft length from the 3H, which is why I think the length is playing a huge part here. However, my 3-iron is also a very close length to that of the 3H, but the same swing doesnt work as well, unfrotunately. This is even more so with shorter irons. The driver also improved - I have noticably (3-4 mph) increased the average swing speed without a large jump in dispersion it seems. The main reason behind the SS increase is the larger (but controlled) turn on the backswing when swinging "without the fear" so to speak, i.e. not trying to square the face with mind controlled swing.

Anyway, I'll keep working on this, but I thought others like you and me may have experienced similar experiences.

[apras]

Try to fine tune your iron swing weight. There is a thread on the club making forum started by Howard Jones on how to fine tune your clubs. Works wonder with me.

[wiley1kinobe]

[quote name='Neige' timestamp='1394719909' post='8862291']
[quote name='homergolf' timestamp='1394713290' post='8861593']
The best thing about what's going on with the 3h is that it brings hope in for the rest of your clubs. My magic club used to be my 6 iron, not that I'm that great of a ball-stiker now, but I've gotten a lot better with everything else (14 hdcp). If you can do it with that club, you can do it with the others, especially the shorter clubs. If you got a good teaching pro, my guess is they would start in with irons and give you a clue on what you should do to get better. Nothing better than a great approach shot. With an improved and consistent swing, there is no reason the magic can't be spread to the other clubs, including the driver. Good luck.
[/quote]

Exactly! This is why I became so excited about it - thinking there is a good opportunity here to learn from the 3H swing and try to do the same with the rest of the clubs. It actually worked, but only with the fairway woods. They are usually not that easy for me to hit, but by swinging in the same way as with the 3H, I definetely improved my shots with 5W and 3W. They, of course, happen to be not far off in terms of the shaft length from the 3H, which is why I think the length is playing a huge part here. However, my 3-iron is also a very close length to that of the 3H, but the same swing doesnt work as well, unfrotunately. This is even more so with shorter irons. The driver also improved - I have noticably (3-4 mph) increased the average swing speed without a large jump in dispersion it seems. The main reason behind the SS increase is the larger (but controlled) turn on the backswing when swinging "without the fear" so to speak, i.e. not trying to square the face with mind controlled swing.

Anyway, I'll keep working on this, but I thought others like you and me may have experienced similar experiences.
[/quote]

Couple of points to make here. My son similarly started playing a few years ago. Like you the 3 hybrid is his go to club. He hits it when he knows it's to much stick sometimes to avoid clubs he doesn't like. Typically the top end of the bag is tougher to hit. If you stepped up and swung, and got that magical feeling, Then the ball went sailing,,!!!! Your attitude toward that club changes and your mind almost wills you into hitting a good shot. You'll see post on here about folks talking about this or that iron because they felt confident at address or liked the look at address.

You must swing every club, not considered a wood, the same on full shots. If you do not turn on wedges like long irons you will get your hands involved. When your hands and arms get involved, now you have to many moving pieces in your swing and good impact depends greatly on timing. Got to minimize moving parts.

You also referred to bounce on your 3 hybrid more than your irons. Completely backwards. Hybrids have 0 bounce. PW- other wedges contain the most bounce. Go to your club manufacturers website to verify what I'm saying.

Don't be dismayed. While hitting a long iron/hybrid well as a starter is not common, it does happen. Short game is the hardest part of the game for most golfers including pros. Don't get discouraged

On irons that you hit fat, try moving them back in your stance, swing with your torso and look at the front of the ball.

Hybrids are designed to be easier to hit than long irons so the fact you can hit the hybrid better than your 3 iron is expected. The hybrid is a replacement. Take the 3 iron out.

The irons and hybrid swings should match. Your driver and fairway woods should match. Pick a golfer you respect for his or her driving ability and see how they finish. Try to look like them when you finish. Same with irons. Hands high on hybrid iron finish, lower and more around on woods. I suggest Adam Scott for woods and Jack Nicklaus for irons, but I'm old lol.

Think about this. If you make the same swing with the 3 hybrid, then with the PW, the shorter length of the PW shaft is going to make a sharp downward angle of attack. Ball will ride up the grooves and launch beautifully into the air. Giving you that magical feeling again.

This is all very simple stuff to try and think about but you know what they say KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. Golf is a hard game. Take heart, lots of folks would love to hit a hybrid like you.

Good luck and pick the brain of all these fine golfers here. They all want to see others do well. (unless they are playing you for money)!