Recap: LIVE Q&A with Adams Golf from Wed April 23, 2014

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='juice93' timestamp='1397833834' post='9118875']
I would like to know which current Adams irons are most like the cb1 and cb2 irons from the past. I am looking for something similar to either one of these to shaft up with a set of TT xp105 shafts. Thanks in advance
[/quote]

The CB brand was a fun program for us at Adams, it had a great cult following that was fun to watch. At this time, we do not have a plan to release an Iron set under the “cb” brand. If you are a fan of cb1, XTD forged is a great candidate with improved performance and if you are a fan of CB2 stay tuned for Ernie El’s XTD Tour -JG

[ImBurningStarIV]

Can you guys, give an update on any new YES offerings. The Callie-Fc is still my favorite putter, would love to see a new forged putter line.

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='ckay' timestamp='1397834303' post='9118931']
I remember the days of Hank Haney's infomercials of the original Tight Lies and thinking "Oh boy, another gimmick!" until my dad and I tried one, and he made the purchase for himself as I was probably 13 years old at the time. Inverted club design and all, was moreso a hybrid than a fairway wood so talk about innovation! Now when I think hybrid, I think Adams and Adams only.

We have seen the Tight Lies, and the introduction of more compact hybrids to driving irons(again). We are already seeing equipment come full circle with smaller drivers breaking the 300cc mark the other way. Where do you see the next innovations being made in the golf world?
[/quote]

Golf is an interesting market and so much is based on timing or introduction of new technologies. We will continue to chase CT or COR for another decade because there is still a lot of runway there for us. We have only scratched the surface here and distance is very important to how we play golf. I think the golf ball will continue to evolve and when that happens we have to react at the club level to make sure the performance is there. We are exploring different manufacturing techniques which will allow us to hit new performance characteristics that we cannot achieve today given the limitations of investment casting. -JH

[birdiebuster72]

Can you explain in further Adams partnership with Southwest Airlines? I see the PGA Players sporting those cool staff bags everywhere!

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='brent' timestamp='1397834735' post='9118993']
Any plans for a CMB type game improvement iron? Those are some of the greatest players irons ever made IMO. Maybe something with CMB looks and feel or does the XTD line take care of that aspect?
[/quote]

Thanks for the great feedback. The CMB irons are one of my favorites as well! Actually the new XTD Forged irons are the next generation of the CMB irons with added technology in the same chassis or body. We added a full floating face with slot to a forging which is an industry first and allowed us to achieve 230+ CT on a forged iron. We spent a lot a time working on the feel and sound of this iron because adding slots and increasing the speed of the face usually have a negative impact on sound. I think we landed it a really good spot on both sound and feel. -JH

[jwm1]

Will the bulge and roll in the new hybrids reduce my ability to toe-hook hybrids off the planet? I am hoping they will act like fwy woods which I tend to find more forgiving.

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='MaydayGSXR' timestamp='1397835081' post='9119063']
Good deal, love when these companies hold these Q&A sessions.. hope to be here for it, but in the meantime;

I see your Pro Hybrid line has both slots in the sole and crown, and you've stated it helps to more readily "catapult" the ball off the face (as is given with slot technology). Does this make the entire face hotter in a sense, top and bottom? With clubs that have slots in the bottom, the manufacturers generally state that it helps with mishits low on the face, so does the velocity slot help with "mishits" high on the face as well as low? Because I am known to find both spots on the face with my hybrid, lol. Thanks in advance!
[/quote]

You and me both, I too need forgiveness across the face! In traditional club head design, the sole and crown are very rigid bodies that create large amounts of stress around the perimeter of the face. Even with a thin crown, the shape of the crown creates the rigidity, the more rigid the perimeter of the face is the less spring like effect the face will have decreasing the distance we both need on off center hits low and high on the face! -JG

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='jongalt55' timestamp='1397835929' post='9119167']
Thanks for doing this. Two questions:

1) Does Adams see itself as one of Taylormade's competitors or do Adams and Taylormade attempt to be synergistic in their product offerings?
2) We've seen certain Taylormade offerings show up in Adams product (the loft sleeve being the most recent example). It is my understanding that Taylormade has tried to take as much of a hands-off approach with Adams as possible. Do the two companies still share R&D and tech advancements?
[/quote]

[i]1) [/i][i] Part of the reason TaylorMade wanted to partner with Adams is because they felt Adams targeted a different group of golfers than they did. In addition, as great and as big as TaylorMade golf gets, for some reason or another some people just wont play their clubs. Adams golf is a much more approachable brand that has a strong business in hybrid iron sets and is very innovative in all other categories. The goal is for Adams to target the players TaylorMade isn’t and then in the categories we make similar products we go after the golfers who just aren’t going to buy TaylorMade. This is what we would do if we were one company of not. [/i]
[i]So in short we do compete in some categories, but TaylorMade is focused on being the #1 driver on tour and Adams is focused on Owning the second shot. Any products that cross over between the two brands, as a strategy at Adams we make sure that we are meeting consumer needs that TaylorMade isn’t, so golfers can have multiple options from the two companies. As I stated before if we make the same products as TaylorMade and just put Adams on them, we aren’t offering anything different to the consumer and we won’t sell too many[/i]

[i]2) [/i][i]The product and R&D team for Adams Golf is all here in North Dallas and runs independently. For the most part besides the hosel sleeve we haven’t used any TaylorMade technologies. We used the hosel sleeve mostly because we wanted to change the bit on our wrench to the standard one everyone was using and it was an easy change. We don’t really share technology, but on the product side one of the biggest benefits to the partnership is that we no longer need to worry about infringing on TaylorMade’s patents. All companies have a collection of patents which block companies from doing certain things. Most of these patents are very broad and very detailed and can make making golf clubs difficult at times. It takes our patent attorney almost two months to clear a design we are creating to ensure we aren’t infringing on anyone’s patents. While we haven’t really used any of TaylorMade’s technologies directly, it is nice not to have to worry about infringing on their patents during our design process. I’m sure TaylorMade would say the same thing about our collection of patents and that having one less company to worry about infringing on their patents only makes it easier. -Fox[/i]

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='burniemac' timestamp='1397836829' post='9119293']
What has been the biggest change in R & D since the merger with Taylormade and how has it benefited Adams overall? Thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions that you can.
[/quote]

Really good question and a lot of you out there are probably wondering the same thing. Truthfully with any acquisition there is always a lot of anxiety because of the unknown that exists in your future. When Taylormade bought us, Mark King made it very clear that Adams was going to stay Adams and keep our identity as well as our location in Plano, Texas. To be honest the merger has been great in every aspect and now we leverage some of the key technologies that Taylormade has to include Inverted Cone Technology and their Loft-Sleeve adjustable hosel technology. The same can be said on the other side as Taylormade can now leverage Adams key technologies. The end result is better golf equipment from both manufacturers! -JH

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='azam14' timestamp='1397838312' post='9119455']
How do you go about choosing the stock shaft in any club, but mainly in your hybrids since that's what your known for?
[/quote]

[i]We chose the Aldila ATX shafts in this years line of Pro hybrids first because with our three different Pro hybrids, we wanted to produce three different launch conditions for each product. The second reason is because the ATX hybrid shafts are the #1 on the PGA tour and had a lot of buzz. Whats great with the ATX line is you can order the Tour Red, Blue or Green in any of our Pro hybrids in custom at no up-charge to get the right flight and shaft for you. (Fox)[/i]

[i]This is the perfect time for this question because between this week and last week we will meet with 6 of the top shaft manufacturers to start to determine what shafts will go in the 2015 line of products for Adams Golf. [/i]
[i]The process for choosing a shaft for a product typically goes as follows. However keep in mind this is a general process overview as there are a number of more meetings, steps and tests I’m skipping over.[/i]
· [i]We provide almost all the shaft manufacturers with our product plan for 2015, which includes the position of each product, the target market for each product, our desired weight ranges and the cost of the product. [/i]
· [i]A couple months later the shaft guys come back and present the shafts, which they feel will go best for each project.[/i]
· [i]Based on how we feel these shafts will work with the product, Justin will typically then request structure samples of each shaft for his team to test. [/i]
· [i]After we have all the test results the product, design and development teams will have discussions about the shafts which tested well for the golfer we are targeting with that club. We will discuss the performance along with the brand strength of the shaft and the overall coolness of the shaft. [/i]
· [i]Then we will run a few cosmetic samples and show our top choice or top two choices to our leadership team to get the okay.[/i]

[i]Adams has always prided itself on using “Real Deal” shafts in our products and that’s not going anywhere. Shaft selecting is fun because we make it a point to play at least one round with each of the products we are considering for a new product. Yesterday we got to try the new Project X shafts and tomorrow we are all playing with the new Aldila shafts. (Fox) [/i]

[MaydayGSXR]

The DHy's are marketed as having low launching, penetrating flights. As a driving iron, I can see the 18° or even possibly the 21° as being viable for the job, but what about the 24° and 27°? Are the higher lofted clubs to be used more as iron replacements than driving irons?

Also, the face bulge design for improved dispersion and forgiveness is very intriguing to to me because it sounds like I could hit them confidently, but the DHy's are also described as extremely workable (which can scare me off sometimes as a mid-high handicap player). Is the face bulge technology and benefits independent of the workability factor (i.e., you can shape shots if you want to like most any other club, but the face bulge will really help with shot dispersion regardless of how you are shaping the shot)?

I also just read one of your replies stating the DHy and Pro Mini are more fade biased, does that mean the Pro is draw biased? Or is it just more neutral?

[ORUTRAVIS]

[quote name='AdamsGolf' timestamp='1398275728' post='9152755']
[quote name='ORUTRAVIS' timestamp='1398274700' post='9152585']
How much golf do you guys get to play and who is the best of the guys in your office?
[/quote]
The amount of golf played at Adams seems to be directly connected to the amount of children you have. The group of single 20 year old guys we have in the office averaged over 130 rounds last year and just got back from 7 rounds in Bandon in the last 4 days. Our leader was 177 rounds last year. The 30 & 40 year old married guys still manage to get there golf in, but it is much more limited. I played 50 rounds last year, but am getting married in two weeks so I am on the decline.

In the end we work in the golf business because we love playing golf and we make time for it. One of the benefits of being in Texas versus Carlsbad is we don't have to fight the other companies for tee times, so getting out isn't a problem.

The best player in the office is up for heavy debate as we haven't had our Company Championship yet this year. Ask again towards the end of the year, but its going to be a battle.
-Fox-
[/quote]

Thats awesome that you guys are getting that much golf in. I been married ten years and it will definitely cut down on the golf time. Put it your vows(golf time).

[Mustng5]

To hear that my shafts for my SLDR will work with your head is very exciting. I am very impressed with the tolerances for CT control on the XTD driver but what are your tolerances for loft on your drivers? If I buy a 9 degree am I really getting an 11?

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='DRGJR72' timestamp='1397836862' post='9119299']
When do you expect the XTD Tour version of the irons to be available for purchase?

Can you elaborate on the differences between this version and the current available XTD iron?
[/quote]

This set slotted to launch mid to late September.

Both sets are being used by the best players in the world! Kenny Perry loves the current XTD iron while Ernie Els is currently rocking the XTD Tour irons. The differences will be in the shape. Relative to XTD cross cavity iron, the profile will be more compact with less offset while incorporating the same Cross Cavity design. -JG

[TPG1971]

I own an Original Tight Lies Tour fairway wood, and I used it for many years. I am currently in the market for a new Hybrid. The original Tight Lies fairway wood seemed to be a miracle worker back then. What would the benefit be to trying one of your hybrids vs. the standard hybrid that is currently offered by other manufacturers? The second part of my question would be, Are the new Hybrids as easy to launch as that old fairway wood used to be? I realize they are different beasts, but any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks!!

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='jwm1' timestamp='1398276462' post='9152897']
Will the bulge and roll in the new hybrids reduce my ability to toe-hook hybrids off the planet? I am hoping they will act like fwy woods which I tend to find more forgiving.
[/quote]
Actually, all of our hybrids have bulge and roll on them (and have for a while)! As far as the hooking problem, that is a problem that many people experience with many of the hybrids that are out on the market today. They are designed with extreme draw bias so people don't 'slice them off the planet'. Our hybrids are designed to be pretty neutral but specifically the Pro DHy and Pro Mini have a bit more fade bias to them so you shouldn't have as much problem with the hooks.
-Matt Neeley @mattneeley

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='Paul Booij' timestamp='1397844997' post='9120253']
Also, could you send equipment to Mark Crossfield to review on his YouTube channel. Love his video reviews.
[/quote]

[i]You’re in luck because in addition to my product duties I am also in change of PR. We have a media list of over 500 domestic outlets, including a number of which are exclusively on YouTube. Mark has never reached out to request product, but if he is interested in reviewing our products and he has some nice reach we would be happy to send him clubs. Thanks- fox[/i]

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='happygolfer' timestamp='1397851123' post='9120951']
Do you have a Kingdom or an Oven? Any plans on having a performance lab personalized type fitting?

I'd be more likely to be interested in the XTD's if Barney Adams was hitting them in a commercial. I just don't identify with Kenny Perry giggling after hitting a 200 yard 6 iron. How is Barney doing? I always loved him in the Adams commercials.

Are you trying to target older demographics since you use Kenny Perry?

Are/were there any participants on the Big Break that have an all Adams bag? (other than the season winner when they are offered an endorsement deal)

Thanks.
[/quote]

We have a launch lab (indoor) where players can get fit by our certified fitters. We also have a range near the office where product testing is done.
Kenny is a great representative for our company and we love having him in our commercials. We think he appeals to a wide range of ages and skill levels in the game. Golf is supposed to be fun and we love Kenny’s laugh (and he still hit’s it really long!).
Barney is doing very well. He splits his time between Dallas and Palm Springs and spends most of his time playing golf or going on exotic fishing excursions. He still finds time to share his ideas for golf clubs development too.
Yes, there are some Big Break participants who play an all-Adams bag, but a majority of them, like most aspiring young players without equipment deals, play very mixed bags of equipment. They tend to play the clubs that help them fulfill their dreams. -SB

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='someon3' timestamp='1397854574' post='9121229']
My question is for either Scott Blevins or Jeff Wood:
"Can you please give me a good reason to spend $250 on a new Adams xtd hybrid that will help me sell it to the girlfriend?" Thanks!
[/quote]

We can help here. Just tell her, “when you came along I didn’t want to settle for less and found the absolute best woman to make me a better man … same with the XTD hybrid – it’s the best of the best and will make me a better golfer.” Then buy her some nice jewelry on your way to the golf shop. -SB

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='Paul Booij' timestamp='1397844760' post='9120231']
Thanks Adams for the conversation with us golfers. I had a chance to swing the new XTD forged irons and just loved them. How can you improve at all on such awesomeness?
[/quote]

That is the first thing I think about when I get out of bed every morning. We look at ourselves as leaders in innovation which means we take more risks (on the product acceptance side) than some larger companies. We have an underdog mentality here at Adams Golf and this means we are not afraid to be different if there is a reason to do so. We like pushing the envelope on product design and performance and you will see more of that in the near future.- JH

[Puppetmaster]

In light of the ugly comments from many of us here and your Youtube video, when designing the cross cavity irons, did anyone at all see a Matrix/Transformers resemblance? Any inside jokes you can share?

More seriously, Adams has led the way in hybrids for years, anything special you guys do to test the designs in terms of turf interaction, feel/sound, aerodynamics, etc?

Thanks for the Q&A.

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='Hairpie' timestamp='1397855900' post='9121347']
I still play the original idea pro as I've yet to find anything like better. Its ease of use and consistency have prevented me from switching since its inception. Its getting a bit long in the tooth so I'm starting to seriously consider a replacement. Could you convince me why the new hybrids would be a suitable replacement with respect to possible distance gains as well as versatility from a variety of lies? Also which would be more comparable to the original, the Pro or the Pro DHY?
[/quote]

The Idea Pro is a great hybrid and one of the best hybrids of all time. What you are saying is very similar to what I have heard over the past 5 years from tour players and amateur golfers alike. Up until 2 years ago the Idea Pro hybrid was still the #1 model on tour. The reason so many were in play was it just plain worked and players don’t like to change unless they see an improvement. My goal over the past 3 years was to eliminate the Idea Pro hybrid on tour and replace it with new hybrid designs. We accomplished this 2 years ago with the a12 Pro then the Super Pro (tour only) and recently with the PRO hybrid family. Just as recent as last week the new PRO hybrid was our #1 hybrid model on the PGA, Champions and LPGA tours. I would say the new PRO hybrid is the most comparable to the original Idea Pro hybrid. - JH

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='Mustng5' timestamp='1398276670' post='9152923']
To hear that my shafts for my SLDR will work with your head is very exciting. I am very impressed with the tolerances for CT control on the XTD driver but what are your tolerances for loft on your drivers? If I buy a 9 degree am I really getting an 11?
[/quote]

<Justin Honea> Appreciate your comments here. Typical loft tolerances are +/-1* on drivers and this is the standard industry average. We are looking into ways to reduce this tolerance without impacting cost.

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='dtowngolf' timestamp='1397843698' post='9120081']
I am a better player looking for the most forgiveness but still with a higher launch and a less left bais? the pro launches the highest out of the three correct?
[/quote]

You are correct! Hybrids have a tendency to be left bias. The bias in the Pro hybrid is neutral and should work very well for you. With the upside down Technology, it is also the highest launching hybrid in the Pro hybrid family! -JG

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='Boogaloo_Jones' timestamp='1397857778' post='9121499']
When Taylormade bought Adams, how were product lines adjusted so that cannibalism of product sales between both companies were prevented? Do the Adams line and Taylormade products share similar technology?

Finally, with the popularity of the "distance iron", what type of current or upcoming technology will allow golfers to gain a bit more distance while maintaining control and forgiveness of their shots?
[/quote]

[i]: If you go back a few answers you can see the response to the TaylorMade partnership. I don’t want to copy it again otherwise your distance iron question may get lost. [/i]

[i]The big distance technologies in irons are cut-thru slots and thin faces. Both of these help to provide ball speeds like we’ve never seen before. In one year we have gained almost 10 yards over our previous Super S iron without adjusting loft at all. The Cross Cavity design on the XTD irons is what controls these monsters. They move the CG off the face to help create more corrective spin on off-center hits. I played with Justin Girard, the designer of these clubs yesterday and he hit a 6 iron 210 uphill right over the green on a Par 3. You knew as soon as he hit it, that that thing was never coming down. We haven’t played together in about 6 months and we both kept saying how much better the other one had gotten, until we both realized it was the new XTD irons. Now that’s technology. Thanks (Fox)[/i]

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='gophers79' timestamp='1398097885' post='9136921']
Thank you for taking the time to talk with us!

I just this winter got a set of CMBs and LOVE them so far! I grew up playing blades, and part of what drew me to the CMBs was the more "classic" look of the clubs, along with the fact that they flat-out perform. It seems like the more current offerings in both irons and woods / drivers place a premium on "technology you can see" with things like the cross-cavity, crown-slot and sole slot. Is Adams planning on some product lines that would target a player like me that likes the technology "under the hood" instead of out in the open?
[/quote]

This is certainly a fine line we walk at Adams, but for us to differentiate ourselves in the industry, we can’t spare hiding our technology. We are always coming up and considering ways to improve the look without hurting performance. Are you sure that technology “under the hood” is really there? - JG

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='yumbrownies' timestamp='1397860805' post='9121701']
For the marketing folks: What was the reasoning behind the drastic change to the Adams Golf typeface? Was there a particular feel or message you hoped to convey to consumers by moving to a hand script style?
[/quote]

We wanted to refresh our brand and add a new, consistent look since we really had two different logos and typefaces being used at the time (our tour hats with the arching Adams and our red triangle with the italicized typeface).
With a renewed commitment to being a fun, friendly and inviting golf company, we wanted a way to communicate that with a logo/typeface. After looking at 100+ concepts and taking into consideration a variety of factors (ie. Tour and TV exposure, fit on clubs, colors, apparel, etc) we decided on the new script Adams and the standalone A seen on our tour hats.
The response on tour has been phenomenal. We hope you like it as well. -SB

[fishstix94]

[quote name='AdamsGolf' timestamp='1398276104' post='9152829'][quote name='fishstix94' timestamp='1397831396' post='9118537']
Thanks for the opportunity! Does adams have any plans in the future of releasing blades for those who prefer the traditional look and feel (possibly forged) of blades?
Fish
[/quote]

[i]If you like a blades you can’t get much more traditional sizing than the XTD forged irons, which are out right now and are a steal at $1,099 with two DHs, C-Taper shafts and iomic grips. [/i]

[i]If you are asking if we are going to make a muscle back iron, Justin H. and I are trying to sell making one to the rest of the team, but unfortunately the only people that play muscle back irons are typically getting them for free because there on tour or there getting them at a discount because they work in golf somewhere. It costs tens of thousands of dollars to make tooling for a forged iron and if you are going to sell less that 1000 sets at full price its not always worth it. With that being said we are still going to push hard to make one and your request will help fuel our case. Thanks (Fox)[/i][/quote]
Awesome I didn't know those irons came stock with c tapers and iomic grips! I will check them out!

[MaydayGSXR]

[quote name='AdamsGolf' timestamp='1398276502' post='9152901']
[quote name='MaydayGSXR' timestamp='1397835081' post='9119063']
Good deal, love when these companies hold these Q&A sessions.. hope to be here for it, but in the meantime;

I see your Pro Hybrid line has both slots in the sole and crown, and you've stated it helps to more readily "catapult" the ball off the face (as is given with slot technology). Does this make the entire face hotter in a sense, top and bottom? With clubs that have slots in the bottom, the manufacturers generally state that it helps with mishits low on the face, so does the velocity slot help with "mishits" high on the face as well as low? Because I am known to find both spots on the face with my hybrid, lol. Thanks in advance!
[/quote]

You and me both, I too need forgiveness across the face! In traditional club head design, the sole and crown are very rigid bodies that create large amounts of stress around the perimeter of the face. Even with a thin crown, the shape of the crown creates the rigidity, the more rigid the perimeter of the face is the less spring like effect the face will have decreasing the distance we both need on off center hits low and high on the face! -JG
[/quote]

So it really helps to give some much needed distance forgiveness to the top of the face? Good deal. Forgiveness on the bottom is great when you're on a nice lie such as a fairway and there's no real chance that you're going to be hitting it high on the face, but when you find yourself in some thick stuff and the ball is awkwardly propped up somehow it can be a different story. I cringe when I see it, because I know there's a good chance I'll be popping one straight up in the air, haha.

Thanks!

[AdamsGolf]

[quote name='radiman' timestamp='1397864412' post='9121985']
Lol, I just got off twitter and immediately had to come here. Love the video. Which kind of leads to my question, why not a more understated look? Is the point to have the technology easily recognizable?

Also, I am a huge fan of the Adams equipment from 2+ years ago (before the slot made its way to the crown) Any chance of getting similar performance from a more traditional looking hybrid/FW/Driver in the future? All I want is a new 9015D that is more forgiving than the original!

One last question, why the departure from the LDA competitions? Was it a contractual thing? Or did Adams just decide to pursue a different demographic?

Thanks!
[/quote]

[i]We all love an understated look as it reminds of the blades that fathers of the game used to play and we feel that if we use an understated iron we are playing the game like they did. The reason we struggle to go understated is there is not a lot of real-estate to hide technology and if you really want to improve a golf club you need technology. The part for us we will never falter on is at address. As long as it looks good at address, who cares whats making it go in the back. [/i]
[i]Also, the issue with an understated look is when you look at a sea of irons on the wall understated doesn’t stick out. If you want an understated look, then you have Mizuno, but for us to stick out we need to create a club that when you look at it you say “I don’t know if I like that yet, but I really need to try it.” When we created the CB3 or the Super S, which were very understated we couldn’t get anyone to try them. Trial is not an issue with the new XTD irons and once you try those you are locked in. [/i]

[i]The 9015D was a great driver, but its nothing compared to the new XTD driver. We used a lot of our knowledge on aerodynamics and spin on the 9015D on the XTD Driver. [/i]

[i]Answer: [/i][i]We had a great relationship with the LDA (Long Drivers Assoc.) and our driver development benefitted from LDA player testing. Striving to grow our leadership in the Second Shot club categories made us take a look at investments like the LDA and we decided our focus and energy will be better used in other areas.-Fox[/i]