Some ideas about the trail arm straightening

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416353762' post='10469227']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416349636' post='10468853']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1416349338' post='10468821']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416349254' post='10468809']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416348833' post='10468773']
It's saying the same thing. Nobody is just a swing or hitter. Everyone use both throughout the swing. I know this complicated and tough for you to understand.
[/quote]

Yea, I'm trouble seeing how if I execute a 3 barrel TSP Swing with a passive right triceps, it somehow gets fired anyway. Must be some inner demon acting against my will.
[/quote]

Do you extend your arm in your swing? If so, you're firing your triceps. Hell, unless your arm is completely flexed your triceps are firing just to stabilize
[/quote]

Thats the part I brought up earlier which he ignored. I asked him to show me a single two handed golfer who didn't fire the triceps coming down.

If the right arm straightens at all the tricep is firing. Just because you aren't intentionally firing doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's not an inner demon its facts and you know physics and anatomy. Which you show aren't your strong suits in this thread.

So please explain to everybody how you can straighten your right arm without your tricep firing. I can post the picture of the shovel again if you want. The more you talk the dumber you look and the bigger hole you are digging.
[/quote]

Resorting to insults proves that's all you got. The arms are extended in the follow through, not through the impact interval, after ball separation, so make no contribution to ball speed. Which is why the 3 barrel Swing has no # 1 PA, just as Homer said. You should use that shovel to clean up the crap you post posing as an expert, who knows all the lies in TGM. You should attend one of Lynn Blake's workshops and clue him in on Swinging and Hitting, now that would be great entertainment
[/quote]

they are definitely extended at impact. if you kept the same amount of R arm flexion, you'd have to have your chest parallel to the ground to have the clubhead anywhere near the vicinity of the ball. Something can be extended without being fully extended.

[gwlee7]

***shows age by having to google Patches O'houlihan***

[bph7]

Homer Kelley was a genius in one regard: he managed to write a book where everything was purposely obfuscated enough that no one could get it, so he was the only authority on it originally, which enabled him to appear to be an authority on the subject in spite of his laughable lack of qualifications. From there, he introduced an accreditation system to give the program more legitimacy, and from there was able to develop quite a following in spite of no one ever vetting the book. Essentially, he did what every leader of any cult ever has done, and to this day you still have the mizuno joes of the world who think that a random employee of Boeing with no formal education in the subject to speak of somehow figured out the golf swing where no one else could. For this, homer Kelley deserves credit because he knew that a sucker was born every minute and was smart enough to exploit said suckers.

[JPGolf FL]

There is a lot of good in the book but it is not gospel. It is written from an engineer's perspective. If anyone has ever seen how easily engineers can have a disconnect between paper and real world application it's easy to see why some if it is not applicable.

[northgolf]

[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1416358937' post='10469655']
There is a lot of good in the book but it is not gospel. It is written from an engineer's perspective. If anyone has ever seen how easily engineers can have a disconnect between paper and real world application it's easy to see why some if it is not applicable.
[/quote]

Start with 1-L and you are hosed as far as reality is concerned, at least from this engineer's perspective.

[GAL007]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416348101' post='10468667']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416346427' post='10468515']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416331939' post='10467111']
He can't post a picture because it wouldn't look like a backswing and the left wrist wouldn't be cocked. He said he does it so he should be able to post a picture of himself with a fully cocked left wrist but a level right wrist.
[/quote]

Wow. Extend both arms up to the top of the TSP with a level, bent right wrist and partially cocked, flat left wrist. Now bend the right elbow to your max til the upper right arm is against the torso, cocking the left wrist. I get 90 degs with short arms, so someone with long arms should get 90 degs before the upper arm reaches the torso.

The purpose of this is to get a direct equivalence between left wrist c0ck and right elbow c0ck. Then you can reduce the swing to simply swinging the right forearm, which, with the bent, level right wrist, is in perfect impact alignment. Homer Kelley called this THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM.
[/quote]

Again post a video or photo of you with a fully cocked left wrist and a level right wrist.

I know what homer says. And I know what happens in all players I've ever seen measured with 3d equipment. Again where is the swing with a level right wrist at the top of the swing. Gay and Trevino are the closest but still cocked. Neither also set the club anywhere near 90* in the backswing.

I've offered evidence. Even disapproving with evidence the guys you say have level wrist when in fact they are cocked. I even showered when and where they changed from level to cocked. Again you keep dodging questions like you're Patches O'Hoolighan
[/quote]


DODGE. DUCK. DIP. DIVE. DODGE. If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball

[pinhigh27]

I don't get how the hitters and swingers thing gets so much press. It's no different than saying people are either a square or a triangle and then you have to ask them which one they are because there's no actual way to tell from an outsider's perspective. It just sounds like a completely arbitrary thing he made up because it sounds cool?

[mikah]

[quote name='Rodabodem' timestamp='1416281004' post='10464637']
I don't see how someone can hinge their wrists without cocking the right wrist/hand.... I have rather tight wrists due to martial arts injuries and still c0ck my right wrist..
[/quote]


Try pronating your left arm going back and cupping the left wrist. Never heard that before? LOL

Left wrist cocks, right wrist doesnt.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416365774' post='10470211']
[quote name='Rodabodem' timestamp='1416281004' post='10464637']
I don't see how someone can hinge their wrists without cocking the right wrist/hand.... I have rather tight wrists due to martial arts injuries and still c0ck my right wrist..
[/quote]


Try pronating your left arm going back and cupping the left wrist. Never heard that before? LOL

Left wrist cocks, right wrist doesnt.
[/quote]

then your hand won't stay on the grip... you can't have the hands facing 90 degree different angles without making significant grip compensations

[pinhigh27]

I don't see how this is hard for you guys conceptually. Put your L hand at the top of your swing with a c0cked wrist. now put your R hand at the top of your swing with an unc0cked wrist. they'll be perpendicular to each other.

just post a picture of 1 c0cked and the other not. until you can do that, you have nothing.

[mikah]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1416366433' post='10470281']
I don't see how this is hard for you guys conceptually. Put your L hand at the top of your swing with a c0cked wrist. now put your R hand at the top of your swing with an unc0cked wrist. they'll be perpendicular to each other.

just post a picture of 1 c0cked and the other not. until you can do that, you have nothing.
[/quote]


[color=#282828]then your hand won't stay on the grip... you can't have the hands facing 90 degree different angles without making significant grip compensations [/color]




Maybe why Ben Hogan wrote that it was his secret.
Are you really saying you cant pronate your left arm and cup the left wrist in one motion?

PS Visit , Lefty's range, in S cal. the Mrs, makes, great chili dogs.

[pinhigh27]

Show me a picture of pronated L arm, cupped left wrist, and c0cked r wrist with 10 fingers on the golf club

[mikah]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1416367734' post='10470377']
Show me a picture of pronated L arm, cupped left wrist, and c0cked r wrist with 10 fingers on the golf club
[/quote]


check, 5 L, Ben Hogan

SAY MY NAME

[pinhigh27]

ok show me the picture

[pick it up]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416368013' post='10470403']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1416367734' post='10470377']
Show me a picture of pronated L arm, cupped left wrist, and c0cked r wrist with 10 fingers on the golf club
[/quote]


check, 5 L, Ben Hogan

SAY MY NAME
[/quote]


Right wrist is still cocked if you pronate the left arm and cup the left wrist. You would have to supinate the left arm and cup the left wrist to do what you say... but then you would have the club hanging in front of your face with a palmar flexed right wrist...not exactly the best position for a B.S....LOL!

[pick it up]

 

 

 

Sort of like Jimmy Bruen at the top ...but even he cocked the right wrist and was a fabulous striker of the ball.

[chrisgilly09]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416368013' post='10470403']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1416367734' post='10470377']
Show me a picture of pronated L arm, cupped left wrist, and c0cked r wrist with 10 fingers on the golf club
[/quote]



check, 5 L, Ben Hogan

SAY MY NAME
[/quote]

russc

[northgolf]

[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1416370472' post='10470585']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416368013' post='10470403']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1416367734' post='10470377']
Show me a picture of pronated L arm, cupped left wrist, and c0cked r wrist with 10 fingers on the golf club
[/quote]



check, 5 L, Ben Hogan

SAY MY NAME
[/quote]

russc
[/quote]

Now you're insulting russc

[Biomateur]

Evolution'j job was to adjust all the joints to the most common human activities. Playing golf was not any of them. Otherwise joints would enable us to be on one plane with sweetspot facing the ball all the time.

[Tax Man Golfeth]

 

 

 

Sort of like Jimmy Bruen at the top ...but even he cocked the right wrist and was a fabulous striker of the ball.

 

Lol. Michael Breed has no doubt spent a lifetime fixing swings like this. But imagine if his show had been on 70 years ago. We'd have a Bruen special where he breaks down his swing and shows us how to cross the line with a level right wrist for extra distance.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416354948' post='10469315']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416353762' post='10469227']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416349636' post='10468853']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1416349338' post='10468821']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416349254' post='10468809']

Yea, I'm trouble seeing how if I execute a 3 barrel TSP Swing with a passive right triceps, it somehow gets fired anyway. Must be some inner demon acting against my will.
[/quote]

Do you extend your arm in your swing? If so, you're firing your triceps. Hell, unless your arm is completely flexed your triceps are firing just to stabilize
[/quote]

Thats the part I brought up earlier which he ignored. I asked him to show me a single two handed golfer who didn't fire the triceps coming down.

If the right arm straightens at all the tricep is firing. Just because you aren't intentionally firing doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's not an inner demon its facts and you know physics and anatomy. Which you show aren't your strong suits in this thread.

So please explain to everybody how you can straighten your right arm without your tricep firing. I can post the picture of the shovel again if you want. The more you talk the dumber you look and the bigger hole you are digging.
[/quote]

Resorting to insults proves that's all you got. The arms are extended in the follow through, not through the impact interval, after ball separation, so make no contribution to ball speed. Which is why the 3 barrel Swing has no # 1 PA, just as Homer said. You should use that shovel to clean up the crap you post posing as an expert, who knows all the lies in TGM. You should attend one of Lynn Blake's workshops and clue him in on Swinging and Hitting, now that would be great entertainment
[/quote]

So you're saying your right arm is bent the exact same amount at the top of the swing as it is at impact?

Again I know reading comprehension is difficult but straighten the right arm isn't the same as a straight right arm. To straighten means to become more straight or in other words less bent. If the right arm straightens at all the tricep is firing.

I'm not spewing any crap and I'm not the one with reading comprehension issues. You still didn't answer either question.

How can right arm straighten, or for you become less bent, without firing right tricep?

How can both wrist be level at address, and then you c0ck one wrist without cocking the other wrist (without moving hands on the grip)? How can you have the wrist action of one have no affect on the other?
[/quote]

Talk about lack of reading comp! The more right elbow bend at a deep release point the better. Ever heard of a pitch elbow delivered to the right hip from the top, the elbow bend can even increase with down cocking. No competent teacher would have to led by the nose like this.

The right arm is thrown through impact by the right shoulder in a cf Swing and straightens without the right triceps, just as it straightens when throwing a baseball using the shoulder and forearm muscles. Only girls use the triceps to throw a ball, or maybe unathletic guys? The triceps is for Hitting or the shot put in T &F. Again, any competent instructor wouldn't have to ask these sophomoric questions.

That last question is getting old and has already been answered several times, but yet again shows why your glass ceiling was a GSEB, and you didn't get up to it.

[JPGolf FL]

If you are going to lock in as a TGM nazi at least understand it. Extensor action is present in a "cf swing" per TGM. What muscle produces extensor action? The right tricep. Keep digging, this is too easy.

[Rodabodem]

It isn't anatomically possible to straighten your right arm without using your tricep. Ever wonder Why people with torn triceps can't straighten their arm?

[iteachgolf]

I never tried to go past GSEB. And again the more you say the more ignorant you prove yourself to be.

For the right arm to straighten the triceps must contract. Therefore to straighten the arm the triceps must fire. The long head part of the triceps is also responsible for adduction which brings the arm closer to the midline of the body. Aka pitch elbow. So when you using pitch elbow you are definitely 100% firing the triceps. The arm also straightens which again is firing the triceps. Btw in baseball the arm is adducting and straightening. The triceps are being fired and being fired hard.

I'm not asking sophomoric questions. The questions are designed to show and highlight your ignorance. Which is painfully obvious. Wanna keep digging your hole even deeper. And if you wanna argue competence you are the one saying the right arm doesn't straighten in the downswing. And can even be more bent, which can happen in transition but then it has to straighten faster and harder later in the downswing. You know firing the triceps even more.

Btw I pitched at a very high level when younger

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416414463' post='10472379']

Talk about lack of reading comp! The more right elbow bend at a deep release point the better. Ever heard of a pitch elbow delivered to the right hip from the top, the elbow bend can even increase with down cocking. No competent teacher would have to led by the nose like this.

The right arm is thrown through impact by the right shoulder in a cf Swing and straightens without the right triceps, just as it straightens when throwing a baseball using the shoulder and forearm muscles. Only girls use the triceps to throw a ball, or maybe unathletic guys? The triceps is for Hitting or the shot put in T &F. Again, any competent instructor wouldn't have to ask these sophomoric questions.

That last question is getting old and has already been answered several times, but yet again shows why your glass ceiling was a GSEB, and you didn't get up to it.
[/quote]

lol next you're going to say only unathletic people bench with their triceps. if your elbow is anything besides full flexed (ie touching your fingertips to your shoulder), you're using your triceps. your muscles have to stabilize the position of your joints/appendages or they'd just completely move in one direction. if the muscles of one side of your tongue are paralyzed, your tongue will completely deviate to that side. same thing here.

[mikah]

[quote name='Rodabodem' timestamp='1416415474' post='10472517']
It isn't anatomically possible to straighten your right arm without using your tricep. Ever wonder Why people with torn triceps can't straighten their arm?
[/quote]


Jaime explains how Babe, retained Lag, behind him
WITHOUT straightening the trail elbow.(2:30)

Largest Area of Impact. ... best Slot position and best impact position, as per Jaime.(4:34)

ditto for Ben Hogan. .. same angle , back arm well bent... bat MASS(5:10,back arm well bent)

'didnt flip the wrists', no rollover( due to swing mechanics) ..due to back arm. Back arm not extending, until 10 oclock(5:30)

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bUvU4gH1GI"]https://www.youtube....h?v=1bUvU4gH1GI[/url]

so why worry about triceps. Its all about the bicep of our dominant arm. you throw a punch with your tricep?
(Hans and Franz style)
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Zk2vUmjpk"]https://www.youtube....h?v=I5Zk2vUmjpk[/url]

Lets get this out there.

Only 'girlie men' straighten their trail arms.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416418348' post='10472785']
[quote name='Rodabodem' timestamp='1416415474' post='10472517']
It isn't anatomically possible to straighten your right arm without using your tricep. Ever wonder Why people with torn triceps can't straighten their arm?
[/quote]


Jaime explains how Babe, retained Lag, behind him
WITHOUT straightening the trail elbow.(2:30)

Largest Area of Impact. ... best Slot position and best impact position, as per Jaime.(4:34)

ditto for Ben Hogan. .. same angle , back arm well bent... bat MASS(5:10,back arm well bent)

'didnt flip the wrists', no rollover( due to swing mechanics) ..due to back arm. Back arm not extending, until 10 oclock(5:30)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bUvU4gH1GI
[/quote]

Hogans right arm straightens more than 45* coming down. Straighten doesn't mean straight. It means to become less bent.

Show me a single golfer or baseball player who doesn't straighten their trailing arm from top to impact. Show me one. Just one.

[iteachgolf]

Babe Ruth

 

[Rodabodem]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416418348' post='10472785']
[quote name='Rodabodem' timestamp='1416415474' post='10472517']
It isn't anatomically possible to straighten your right arm without using your tricep. Ever wonder Why people with torn triceps can't straighten their arm?
[/quote]


Jaime explains how Babe, retained Lag, behind him
WITHOUT straightening the trail elbow.(2:30)

Largest Area of Impact. ... best Slot position and best impact position, as per Jaime.(4:34)

ditto for Ben Hogan. .. same angle , back arm well bent... bat MASS(5:10,back arm well bent)

'didnt flip the wrists', no rollover( due to swing mechanics) ..due to back arm. Back arm not extending, until 10 oclock(5:30)

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bUvU4gH1GI"]https://www.youtube....h?v=1bUvU4gH1GI[/url]

so why worry about triceps. Its all about the bicep of our dominant arm. you throw a punch with your tricep?
(Hans and Franz style)
[/quote]

I think you misunderstood what I am trying to say. I'm not talking about feel or intention. I'm saying that it is literally impossible for your arm to straighten without the tricep firing. That's all.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416418348' post='10472785']
Only 'girlie men' straighten their trail arms.
[/quote]

Considering the time window of a downswing...in golf/baseball...To think the trail arm is not straightening but you are holding up an object implies that your are supporting the club/bat with the bicep muscle. So you mean to say that these elite strikers of balls only decided when to hold on to the handle longer and straighten after impact? There is a combination of loading/unloading of many joints/muscles. How much of each...and which joints/muscles???? Enough, and the correct joints/muscles.

If your bicep is primarily firing then the hands get progressively/incrementally closer to your body in the downswing and continue this motion after impact. You are looking at still images and trying to create a generalization on an action that is a movement through space. I cant believe Im actually replying to this crap.