The ball doesn't matter! (Formerly, the Ultimate Ball Test)

[thug the bunny]

I haven't looked at this thread in ages, but there were some new posts and I stubbled back to it.

 

It's interesting that almost no one in the thread has mentioned "score", which is theoretically why we ball golf.

 

Everyone talks about "balls stopping on the green" or "spinning on chips" ... that's not score.

 

People post about "softness" or "feel" ... that's not score.

 

Somewhere approaching 90% of the average amateur's approach shots, are short of pin. Why do you guys need a ball that stops quickly?

 

On a 30 yard chip, the typical amateur is perfectly happy if their ball stops within 10' of the green ... that's a +/- "miss ratio" of 10%. A high spinning ball is as likely to hurt you as often as it helps you.

 

In the US, we learn to play "air golf" and it's "cool" to watch a ball check up on the green. Curiously enough, it's so cool for many golfers, they don't even care if the ball lands 10 yards short.

 

In areas of the world where the prevalent golf methodology is "along the ground", no one much cares about a ball checking up, they just want it to get to the flag.

 

I think if people were honest about their game, they'd admit that "more roll" and "less checking" would get them way closer to the pin. Call me crazy, but that's likely to improve your score.

 

So with a ball that runs how do you hit a 30 yd chip to a front pin? Or to any short sided situation? Or a chip downslope? How about over a bunker? How about a short sided downslope bunker shot?

[BrianL99]

So with a ball that runs how do you hit a 30 yd chip to a front pin? Or to any short sided situation? Or a chip downslope? How about over a bunker? How about a short sided downslope bunker shot?

 

Not many 10 handicappers can't hit any of those shorts consistently, on their best day.

 

& certainly can't consistently impart sufficient spin, to make "stopping power" a major issue.

[Tanner25]

I haven't looked at this thread in ages, but there were some new posts and I stubbled back to it.

 

It's interesting that almost no one in the thread has mentioned "score", which is theoretically why we ball golf.

 

Everyone talks about "balls stopping on the green" or "spinning on chips" ... that's not score.

 

People post about "softness" or "feel" ... that's not score.

 

Somewhere approaching 90% of the average amateur's approach shots, are short of pin. Why do you guys need a ball that stops quickly?

 

On a 30 yard chip, the typical amateur is perfectly happy if their ball stops within 10' of the green ... that's a +/- "miss ratio" of 10%. A high spinning ball is as likely to hurt you as often as it helps you.

 

In the US, we learn to play "air golf" and it's "cool" to watch a ball check up on the green. Curiously enough, it's so cool for many golfers, they don't even care if the ball lands 10 yards short.

 

In areas of the world where the prevalent golf methodology is "along the ground", no one much cares about a ball checking up, they just want it to get to the flag.

 

I think if people were honest about their game, they'd admit that "more roll" and "less checking" would get them way closer to the pin. Call me crazy, but that's likely to improve your score.

 

So with a ball that runs how do you hit a 30 yd chip to a front pin? Or to any short sided situation? Or a chip downslope? How about over a bunker? How about a short sided downslope bunker shot?

Atleast for a higher capper, you gain a shot by spinning it and lose a shot by having it check up early. But, the spinning shot is sure fun!

[SadTrombone]

I haven't looked at this thread in ages, but there were some new posts and I stubbled back to it.

 

It's interesting that almost no one in the thread has mentioned "score", which is theoretically why we ball golf.

 

Everyone talks about "balls stopping on the green" or "spinning on chips" ... that's not score.

 

People post about "softness" or "feel" ... that's not score.

 

Somewhere approaching 90% of the average amateur's approach shots, are short of pin. Why do you guys need a ball that stops quickly?

 

On a 30 yard chip, the typical amateur is perfectly happy if their ball stops within 10' of the green ... that's a +/- "miss ratio" of 10%. A high spinning ball is as likely to hurt you as often as it helps you.

 

In the US, we learn to play "air golf" and it's "cool" to watch a ball check up on the green. Curiously enough, it's so cool for many golfers, they don't even care if the ball lands 10 yards short.

 

In areas of the world where the prevalent golf methodology is "along the ground", no one much cares about a ball checking up, they just want it to get to the flag.

 

I think if people were honest about their game, they'd admit that "more roll" and "less checking" would get them way closer to the pin. Call me crazy, but that's likely to improve your score.

 

So with a ball that runs how do you hit a 30 yd chip to a front pin? Or to any short sided situation? Or a chip downslope? How about over a bunker? How about a short sided downslope bunker shot?

 

You accept your 20' par putt, hope to make it, and move to the next hole with a bogey. The chip or pitch wasn't the problem, it was getting into that position to begin with.

[baaron008]

Golf balls don't matter to hackers like me. To someone like Jordan Spieth, however, I'll bet would lose 2-3 strokes a round using a surlyn ball.

[just plain bill]

what a fun debate...lol...we use the ball we use cuz we think, or know from trial and error, it's the best ball for our game...i keep trying different balls, but i always come back to pinn gold cuz i know it works best for me...i also try different drivers, and almost bought another one sunday, but i always seem to come back to the ping rapture v2 12* i got for $25 at gsmith...it just suits my game...i'll keep looking, tho...lol...

[DLiver]

There are a lot of ridiculous generalizations in this thread. Here's what I want: a ball that flies flat and deep (for me) off the driver on both solid hits and slight misses. I want something that spins consistently off the irons, doesn't roll out on the greens, doesn't back up (much) with wedges, and spins consistently when chipping. I don't care about softness, "clickiness" (a weird aversion IMO). Those are real characteristics and they will affect my score. Now, they won't change my score 5 shots a round, but if I botch a chip or get a yardage wrong, that does show up in my handicap.

[BillyZ2]

I must be playing with the wrong people or on the wrong courses or something, because I never see anybody back there ball up stop it on a dime or those sorts of things. I play in casual tournaments and so on and no one impresses me with how they spin their golf ball on the green. Then I come into these forums and everybody and their brother backs the ball up 10 12 feet? I'd sure like to meet some of you out on the golf course maybe you could give me a lesson or two? But where are you guys? As for me, I do quite well without being able to spin the ball backwards or even stop it on a dime, my approach shots are very high and fall to the green and usually stop where they land not because of spin but because of the height of the approach.

[thug the bunny]

So with a ball that runs how do you hit a 30 yd chip to a front pin? Or to any short sided situation? Or a chip downslope? How about over a bunker? How about a short sided downslope bunker shot?

 

Not many 10 handicappers can't hit any of those shorts consistently, on their best day.

 

& certainly can't consistently impart sufficient spin, to make "stopping power" a major issue.

 

I can hit 30 yd shots that check using a urethane ball and I'm a 9.

[propman]

The group I play with (about 6 of us) range in hcps from 8 to 15. Once in a blue moon, I see balls on the green spinning back (maybe a foot - max) with premium balls, Do I see " 1 bounce and check shots"? Yes, alot and I see these shots with both urethane and surlyn covers.

 

I must be playing golf with the wrong crowd :taunt:

 

I, myself like to chip and run. If I short side myself, I take out my 58 degree lob wedge, choke up and hopefully hit a soft shot. Do I expect it to be close to the hole? No, but every so often I get lucky. If the ball stays on the green and I have a 15 ft putt, I expect 2 putts from there for a bogey.

[Imp]

I think if people were honest about their game, they'd admit that "more roll" and "less checking" would get them way closer to the pin. Call me crazy, but that's likely to improve your score.

And this is exactly how I play. I don't play a check shot. Never have, never will. I will always play for below the pin on most greens in New England, because Donald Ross. And prefer to be short with a chip and roll, than long and off the back with a downhill put.

 

--kC

[Imp]

I haven't looked at this thread in ages, but there were some new posts and I stubbled back to it.

 

It's interesting that almost no one in the thread has mentioned "score", which is theoretically why we ball golf.

 

Everyone talks about "balls stopping on the green" or "spinning on chips" ... that's not score.

 

People post about "softness" or "feel" ... that's not score.

 

Somewhere approaching 90% of the average amateur's approach shots, are short of pin. Why do you guys need a ball that stops quickly?

 

On a 30 yard chip, the typical amateur is perfectly happy if their ball stops within 10' of the green ... that's a +/- "miss ratio" of 10%. A high spinning ball is as likely to hurt you as often as it helps you.

 

In the US, we learn to play "air golf" and it's "cool" to watch a ball check up on the green. Curiously enough, it's so cool for many golfers, they don't even care if the ball lands 10 yards short.

 

In areas of the world where the prevalent golf methodology is "along the ground", no one much cares about a ball checking up, they just want it to get to the flag.

 

I think if people were honest about their game, they'd admit that "more roll" and "less checking" would get them way closer to the pin. Call me crazy, but that's likely to improve your score.

 

So with a ball that runs how do you hit a 30 yd chip to a front pin? Or to any short sided situation? Or a chip downslope? How about over a bunker? How about a short sided downslope bunker shot?

Play for the middle and 2 putt.

 

--kC

[just plain bill]

yup! and, man, does it pay to practice putting a bunch before a round!

[BrianL99]

So with a ball that runs how do you hit a 30 yd chip to a front pin? Or to any short sided situation? Or a chip downslope? How about over a bunker? How about a short sided downslope bunker shot?

 

Not many 10 handicappers can't hit any of those shorts consistently, on their best day.

 

& certainly can't consistently impart sufficient spin, to make "stopping power" a major issue.

 

I can hit 30 yd shots that check using a urethane ball and I'm a 9.

 

You apparently need to improve the rest of your game or have those chips, check closer to the hole.

[just plain bill]

lol

[thug the bunny]

So with a ball that runs how do you hit a 30 yd chip to a front pin? Or to any short sided situation? Or a chip downslope? How about over a bunker? How about a short sided downslope bunker shot?

 

Not many 10 handicappers can't hit any of those shorts consistently, on their best day.

 

& certainly can't consistently impart sufficient spin, to make "stopping power" a major issue.

 

I can hit 30 yd shots that check using a urethane ball and I'm a 9.

 

You need to improve the rest of your game, apparently.

 

Ha. You might have a point. You're saying if I can hit the ball cleanly enough to do 30 yd pitches that check, then why am I hitting 30 yd pitches at all, right? Here's a list of reasons: layup par 5, long par 4 into big wind, punch out from trees, gouge out from 4" rough or fescue, bad lie in a fairway bunker, chunked approach shot, and my wife being more than normally distracted during any one round. So, yeah, I guess there are other issues that bring about these circumstances. But I still maintain that I regularly check balls anywhere from 150 in, hit properly. It's not that hard.

[golfcaddy1969]

To make this issue more complicated I present the following.

 

I changed driver set ups this year. Ping G ls Tec. with a Veylix Arcane shaft. This is the lowest spinning set up that I have ever tried. One shaft was too low as certain golf balls seemed to fall out of the sky. now I was a Callaway Super soft user for the last 2 seasons. It was a little tricky when the course was dry and fast. Also the ball could rocket off the face of your putter at times. I wanted to move to a better spin ball for these reasons. I have tried so many balls in the last 2 weeks that my head is full. TM Tour X,Titleist Pro V,Titleist NXT tour S,Srixon ZXV,Callaway Chrome soft,bridgestone b330rx,Pinnacle Golf and Rush,wilson elite 50. yes there are many more that I could try. It can be confusing because I have found much different launch angles with these balls. Some launch high,mid or lower. I have not found a huge difference in distance. A few tests had the pinnacle rush 10 yards longer but that was only one swing. most of the time each ball was within 2 or 3 yards of each other. Furthermore I have not noticed any ball being much straighter in terms of flight. now I do prefer a softer ball. I was hoping to love the Chrome soft but I do not. After all of this I feel that the Bridgestone b330rx and the Zstar XV gives me more of what I need. it is as long as anything that I have tried and it does not launch higher off the driver than I want. the spin around the green is more than enough. I may still try a few other balls but at this point that is what I need.

[manima1]

So with a ball that runs how do you hit a 30 yd chip to a front pin? Or to any short sided situation? Or a chip downslope? How about over a bunker? How about a short sided downslope bunker shot?

 

Not many 10 handicappers can't hit any of those shorts consistently, on their best day.

 

& certainly can't consistently impart sufficient spin, to make "stopping power" a major issue.

 

I can hit 30 yd shots that check using a urethane ball and I'm a 9.

 

You need to improve the rest of your game, apparently.

 

Ha. You might have a point. You're saying if I can hit the ball cleanly enough to do 30 yd pitches that check, then why am I hitting 30 yd pitches at all, right? Here's a list of reasons: layup par 5, long par 4 into big wind, punch out from trees, gouge out from 4" rough or fescue, bad lie in a fairway bunker, chunked approach shot, and my wife being more than normally distracted during any one round. So, yeah, I guess there are other issues that bring about these circumstances. But I still maintain that I regularly check balls anywhere from 150 in, hit properly. It's not that hard.

 

I agree with you. I'm only a 13 and 150-in the ball checks, it's not difficult. It's much easier to fly a 30-50 yard pitch to the hole and make the ball stop than to try to roll it up. You are essentially taking one variable away by flying it close and stopping it. You still have to make clean contact to bump and run it effectively, but you also have to rely on the ball rolling cleanly to the hole. I don't see why anyone wouldn't take advantage of using a urethane cover ball if you can consistently make good contact with your wedges.

 

To make a statement that only scratch / low cappers can really take advantage of one ball over another is not accurate. I'm a 13 because I don't hit enough fairways and still seem to have 1 or 2 "blow-up" holes per round. Shooting rounds like 45-37 (did this twice last year) are typical as a result of these "blow-ups".

 

Switching to a Urethane cover last year brought me from a 16 to a 13 handicap. No other equipment or swing changes were made and I didn't play any more or less than previous years. It gives me the confidence around the green that the ball will stop and that confidence translated to better short game play.

[just plain bill]

z star xv spin is a great ball...just behind pinn gold, lol... having a/b'd everything, i would play the xv spin if pinn gold disappeared...really great ball...

[thug the bunny]

 

 

I agree with you. I'm only a 13 and 150-in the ball checks, it's not difficult. It's much easier to fly a 30-50 yard pitch to the hole and make the ball stop than to try to roll it up. You are essentially taking one variable away by flying it close and stopping it. You still have to make clean contact to bump and run it effectively, but you also have to rely on the ball rolling cleanly to the hole. I don't see why anyone wouldn't take advantage of using a urethane cover ball if you can consistently make good contact with your wedges.

 

To make a statement that only scratch / low cappers can really take advantage of one ball over another is not accurate. I'm a 13 because I don't hit enough fairways and still seem to have 1 or 2 "blow-up" holes per round. Shooting rounds like 45-37 (did this twice last year) are typical as a result of these "blow-ups".

 

Switching to a Urethane cover last year brought me from a 16 to a 13 handicap. No other equipment or swing changes were made and I didn't play any more or less than previous years. It gives me the confidence around the green that the ball will stop and that confidence translated to better short game play.

 

Well put. In my mind, there are too many variables associated with allowing for ball release. Especially if the pin is up. I would rather take a little more swing or a little more club and get the ball to the pin. If you hit it decently, a good urethane ball will do its job.

 

The Maxfi U6s are spin insane. I actually don't use them because of too many times when I landed maybe a little short and then it spun back an extra 10 ft. Plus the distance off the driver wasn't great for me.

[wfrogge1]

Lots of talk about spin with irons. Everybody is different with different AoA, club speed, etc so not fair to generalize that nobody but tour pros spin the ball back because you don't see those results yourself or with playing partners. Also all courses are different. You put me on bent grass and ill back a ball up for you. Other grasses I can occasionally back one up but can consistently drop and stop except for older/hard greens. This is where the premium balls shine... They are consistent from 150 yards in.

[calhoun.co]

Interesting test, I'm curious what you'll find. I'm also curious how you will use these results, if the "found balls" come out better, will you use them? I think it comes down more to personal preference and what you have the most confidence with and if that doesn't matter to you, then I think it won't matter what ball you play.

[propman]

Last Sunday in the back nine one of my buddies looked at my ball ( a Top Flite Gamer soft) and said "Where to buy these balls - at Walmart "? My response - " Well, when you become a scratch golfer, maybe I'll listen to your rec on what is the best one".

 

I still find it amazing how golfers are easily brain washed when it comes to brands. They see commercials on tv, spend a boatload of money and their game does not improve at all. Guess that's what makes marketing such a powerful thing.

[BillyZ2]

Last Sunday in the back nine one of my buddies looked at my ball ( a Top Flite Gamer soft) and said "Where to buy these balls - at Walmart "? My response - " Well, when you become a scratch golfer, maybe I'll listen to your rec on what is the best one".

 

I still find it amazing how golfers are easily brain washed when it comes to brands. They see commercials on tv, spend a boatload of money and their game does not improve at all. Guess that's what makes marketing such a powerful thing.

For most of us, I think your comment is very true. But for the scratch golfers and those in that area of skill level, I think Pro v1's and the likes work well for them. But for the majority of golfers I think they would be better suited with a ball that has less side spin then the premium urethane golf balls. 300 yards into the woods will not help your score.

[gopherguts]

Last Sunday in the back nine one of my buddies looked at my ball ( a Top Flite Gamer soft) and said "Where to buy these balls - at Walmart "? My response - " Well, when you become a scratch golfer, maybe I'll listen to your rec on what is the best one".

 

Wow. You really told HIM !!! :taunt:

[propman]

Last Sunday in the back nine one of my buddies looked at my ball ( a Top Flite Gamer soft) and said "Where to buy these balls - at Walmart "? My response - " Well, when you become a scratch golfer, maybe I'll listen to your rec on what is the best one".

 

Wow. You really told HIM !!! :taunt:

 

Well, it was effective as he did not respond and I scored better than him so it was a win win,

[gopherguts]

Last Sunday in the back nine one of my buddies looked at my ball ( a Top Flite Gamer soft) and said "Where to buy these balls - at Walmart "? My response - " Well, when you become a scratch golfer, maybe I'll listen to your rec on what is the best one".

 

Wow. You really told HIM !!! :taunt:

 

Well, it was effective as he did not respond and I scored better than him so it was a win win,

 

:rolleyes: :cheesy:

[thug the bunny]

Last Sunday in the back nine one of my buddies looked at my ball ( a Top Flite Gamer soft) and said "Where to buy these balls - at Walmart "? My response - " Well, when you become a scratch golfer, maybe I'll listen to your rec on what is the best one".

 

I still find it amazing how golfers are easily brain washed when it comes to brands. They see commercials on tv, spend a boatload of money and their game does not improve at all. Guess that's what makes marketing such a powerful thing.

For most of us, I think your comment is very true. But for the scratch golfers and those in that area of skill level, I think Pro v1's and the likes work well for them. But for the majority of golfers I think they would be better suited with a ball that has less side spin then the premium urethane golf balls. 300 yards into the woods will not help your score.

 

I agree that sticky urethane balls will magnify side spin off the tee. But, if you can manage a decent number of FIRs, any hc can benefit from a ball that checks. Put it this way, if I want some roll out with a sticky ball, I just club up. I love bumping a little 8i from 3ft off the green with 30ft of roll. But I still have the option of flying it with some check if I want in certain situations with a sticky ball.

[BillyZ2]

"But, if you can manage a decent number of FIRs, any hc can benefit from a ball that checks."

I really think if a golfer can hit the fairways consistently they are probably not high cappers? but who am I to say, I am a 15 hc, lol. Funny, today, I played a Pro v1x on the back nine when did quite well with it. I drove the ball quite well without any more noticeable side spin than normal and actually had one drive carry 245 yards with it, when most of my drives avg 220 carry. In other words my drives were very straight with the pro v1x, go figure.

[thug the bunny]

"But, if you can manage a decent number of FIRs, any hc can benefit from a ball that checks."

I really think if a golfer can hit the fairways consistently they are probably not high cappers? but who am I to say, I am a 15 hc, lol. Funny, today, I played a Pro v1x on the back nine when did quite well with it. I drove the ball quite well without any more noticeable side spin than normal and actually had one drive carry 245 yards with it, when most of my drives avg 220 carry. In other words my drives were very straight with the pro v1x, go figure.

 

I actually find ProVs to be quite long. But, I guess I'm saying that regardless of your hc, you're always going to be faced with shots 150 in where you have to decide am I going to skip it up or land the ball somewhere around the hole? I choose the latter.