Older clubs VS new clubs

[ima_golfer]

It seems like club makers are coming out with "newer and better" models of their brand every few months. I've been looking on eBay and ran across an old set of paying ISI beryllium copper clubs. What is your opinion on grabbing a set like that versus going out and buying a new set or finding a nice used set? I played to a scratch handicap about 20 years ago and I'm at about a 6-8 right now but I'm still very particular about the clubs I play.

['53 Precision]

I am currently playing these clubs 3-W with an Eye 2 W for a gap and and Eye 2 SW. This set up works well as the ISI wedge is 47*, the Eye 2 wedge is 50.5* plus or minus and the Sand Wedge is 57.7* these gaps work for me...these irons will stand up to virtually any iron on the market today in my opinion, further unless you grossly overpay your investment is fairly safe. I got my set ridiculously cheap, $50.00, so I have no reference for what they should cost, others will most likely chime in soon. Btw, they are all BeCu, along with the 1 and 2 iron Eye 2's to round out the set.

[stevemcgee99]

I'm pretty sure the 1956 clubs I use don't hold me back in any way at all. I don't believe the 6-month product lifecycle of golf clubs is justified in any way (for the player).

Moore's Law doesn't apply to golf clubs.

[oldschoolrocker]

If the shoe fits, wear it.

[Robb]

Well, let me add I play a vast amont of clubs. kinda new to unknown oldees. I started collecting old MB clubs which has grown to: Wilson Tom Kite;s, Macgregor MSX (?), and lately a set of Spaling's Star Flite which I am currently playing. Yes, I get harrased by fellow players to come into the 21 st Century...LOL!
(Yes, I have a set of Nike's Machspeeds which I play time to time.)
Have old putters, real wood woods,
This game is such a trip. I find it a blast playing with older stuff when the mood strikes.
When I play with friends and we settle around the car after our round they say what ya play. Numbers go around while I poudly say: I played a vintage set of Spaldings!
Enjoy the game with whatever you play with...

[Code-RED]

I use Ping EYE2 1-9, PW, SW and I wouldn't trade them for anything. Watch all these guys go crazy with their silly hybrids when I hit the 1 iron. It's not worth spending a grand on new clubs when the old clubs are better, unless you just wanna impress somebody and have all the nice new stuff. I know lot of guys that look like they belong on the pga tour but I outplay them with my 30 year old clubs.

[scomac2002]

[quote name='Code-RED' timestamp='1437313718' post='11977638']
I know lot of guys that look like they belong on the pga tour but I outplay them with my 30 year old clubs.
[/quote]

I outplay myself with thirty year old clubs! I have exactly one decent round with modern clubs since I put my vintage bag together! Conversely, I've had many satisfying rounds with my vintage clubs regardless of the score on the card. For me, the best of both worlds is to use a modern driver with a vintage set. That combo has resulted in my best scores to date.

[Fellaheen51]

Scomac, agree 100% with what you have been experiencing. I can play multiple different sets of classic irons, putters, wedges, fairways about equally. Different yes, but not to the point of impacting scores (positively or negatively) in a meaningful manner. Crazy, this is not suppose to be the case based on my layman's understanding of what golf equipment is suppose to be, or do for your game. But I don't even think much about it anymore. Others wonder why I'm always playing something different. Simple answer is because I want to.

The clubs I least enjoy playing, the ones I seemingly hit poorly all the time now, are the modern irons. They're Pings, and verified on spec. for me. We've both posted about this on several occasions. Very confusing. And I've yet to get along very well, to date, with a persimmon D. So, like you, give me a modern metal D than I'm comfortable with, along with the current classic club flavor of the day for everything else and I'm good to go.

Strange, alternative golf universe we have seemingly entered here. Really have no other explanation.

[scomac2002]

[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1437327254' post='11978728']
Scomac, agree 100% with what you have been experiencing. I can play multiple different sets of classic irons, putters, wedges, fairways about equally. Different yes, but not to the point of impacting scores (positively or negatively) in a meaningful manner. Crazy, this is not suppose to be the case based on my layman's understanding of what golf equipment is suppose to be, or do for your game. But I don't even think much about it anymore. Others wonder why I'm always playing something different. Simple answer is because I want to.
[/quote]

Hah! That's exactly what happened to me this morning when my playing companion said to me: [i]"Those are different clubs you've got there. What's the matter; are you confused?"[/i] I didn't offer a response, but I did think to myself that I was looking for an answer , which I found after a fashion.

With respect to the Pings you mention; I am in the very same boat. They are fitted to my exact spec. I can't hit mine at all anymore either. The last time I used them I hit the worst iron shots I've ever hit with those clubs!

[BIG STU]

[quote name='Code-RED' timestamp='1437313718' post='11977638']
I use Ping EYE2 1-9, PW, SW and I wouldn't trade them for anything. Watch all these guys go crazy with their silly hybrids when I hit the 1 iron. It's not worth spending a grand on new clubs when the old clubs are better, unless you just wanna impress somebody and have all the nice new stuff. I know lot of guys that look like they belong on the pga tour but I outplay them with my 30 year old clubs.
[/quote]For me personally it is confortable I am playing the type of clubs (blade irons) that I grew up with and they have a certain feel and familiarity to me. I have people ask me all the time "why do you carry a 7 wood and 9 wood and also carry a 4 and 5 iron?" My answer is because I hit different shots with each of those clubs. Now under certain conditions I will pull out the 4 iron and put the 1 iron in.
Last week I had that PGA Tourist experience for 9 holes (thank God only 9 holes) I got paired with some out of towners (nice enough folks) and this one guy looked like he just stepped off a TMag Tour Van! He was checking out my old Macs in my old Cleveland stand bag kind of wrinkling his nose at my stuff. He announced we are playing off the blue tees ok I will get back there with ya. Now the front 9 of my course I can get away with that just have to change my game plan a little. What the heck it was a practice round anyhow. First hole he procceded to put 2 OB par 5 he took a 9. That was an example I made par. His buddy with new Cally gear was as bad. I shot 39 which is +3 which aint too bad for an old fart like me. They quit after 8 holes citing they had to take the family out to dinner. It was hot and I had the whole back 9 to myself and played from the mids practicing several shots which was what I intended to do to begin with and went to the front again and played 4 holes until I saw a possible storm coming up. I went in satisfied

[oldschoolrocker]

Nice show Stu. Keep hydrated!!! Having the late afternoon thunderstorms down my way, which is leading to more humidity during the next day. A real sauna so far this summer. I did pickup a cheap vintage bag boy pull cart, so I will not be attempting to carry again.
I was on the range early this morning and I heard the term "mad scientist" used. Thought you might like that.

[BIG STU]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1437523454' post='11995606']
Nice show Stu. Keep hydrated!!! Having the late afternoon thunderstorms down my way, which is leading to more humidity during the next day. A real sauna so far this summer. I did pickup a cheap vintage bag boy pull cart, so I will not be attempting to carry again.
I was on the range early this morning and I heard the term "mad scientist" used. Thought you might like that.
[/quote]Trust me I stay hydrated. I took a sports medicine class back when I was a Volunteer Fireman and it also helped with my car racing. I drink 2 cups of coffee in the morning and then the rest water even at meals. I keep a large cooler in the back of my pickup loaded with ice and water at all times. I carry 2 Playmate coolers in the cab of my 18 wheeler stocked with ice and water. I sweat like a prostitute in a Baptist Church anyhow. Lately I have been drinking between 9 and 12 bottles a day when I am out working.
Last Saturday I decided to do short game practice and it was as hot as Hades no one was playing much even the tourists were absent. I bummed a cart for the range threw my clubs and big cooler on it. Stayed out 6 hours no problem.
As far as "mad Scientist" that fits me to a tee---- but there is a method to my madness!!

[TimV]

"[color=#282828] I sweat like a prostitute in a Baptist Church anyhow. "
I will be stealing this Sir. [/color]

[scomac2002]

[quote name='TimV' timestamp='1437602566' post='12002236']
"[color=#282828] I sweat like a prostitute in a Baptist Church anyhow. "
I will be stealing this Sir. [/color]
[/quote]

You're not the only one -- that's a classic!

[oldschoolrocker]

Stu,
Have sweated many a day when I was young from both sides of the pulpit of a Southern Baptist Church.

[BIG STU]

[quote name='TimV' timestamp='1437602566' post='12002236']
"[color=#282828] I sweat like a prostitute in a Baptist Church anyhow. "
I will be stealing this Sir. [/color]
[/quote]Cool! My Old Man used to say that now to be truthful I cleaned it up some from his version. You know this is supposed to be a "G" rated forum

[BIG STU]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1437606534' post='12002562']
Stu,
Have sweated many a day when I was young from both sides of the pulpit of a Southern Baptist Church.
[/quote]And probably like me it was not only due to the fact we did not have A/C either

[Pigems]

Newer is definitely not always better, I play woods now that are older than the ones they replaced and absolutely love them

[Shambles]

So I'm not the only one and, judging from this thread, would not be the lonely one if I were in that part of the world. However I do sometimes see the close looks my clubs get and sometimes even the quiet mention that they have such and such clubs somewhere at home and might bring them out to try them one of these days.

Life happens.



Shambles

[fluffy265]

Given the title of this thread, Am I the only one here who still thinks that late 80's & early 90's gear is modern equipment?

[TimV]

[quote name='fluffy265' timestamp='1437653355' post='12004946']
Given the title of this thread, Am I the only one here who still thinks that late 80's & early 90's gear is modern equipment?
[/quote]

Eh, I consider my 86 Mizzy blades vintage...
but that just may be because I want to. I play them with "real" woods so???

[Shambles]

[quote name='TimV' timestamp='1437658039' post='12005300']
[quote name='fluffy265' timestamp='1437653355' post='12004946']
Given the title of this thread, Am I the only one here who still thinks that late 80's & early 90's gear is modern equipment?
[/quote]

Eh, I consider my 86 Mizzy blades vintage...
but that just may be because I want to. I play them with "real" woods so???
[/quote]

Fluffy265 isn't that far off. However, I'm more inclined to believe the late 80's and early 90's were a transition period brought about by Karsten Solheim and his successful suit against the USGA. It was actually after the end of that suit that clubs exploded in variations and experimental designs especially as the USGA and others had become gun shy and hesitant to exercise the powers they had been invested with by golfers in general. After all, they do rule with the permission of the ruled.

I play the Eye 2's and if a close look were made one would see that many of it's features actually existed in various clubs that preceded it. What Karsten did was pick and choose the best features for a golfing market he had decided would be a good target market, and combined them adjusted for that market. He also invested in some very expensive machinery to produce his product and explored some alternative materials. Before the Eye 2's aluminum woods with larger heads, a bending shaft for the pitching wedge that could be straightened out by hand immediately after use, a comb like wedge intended for use when the ball went into the water, a wood driver made with a lot of holes intended to speed up your swing speed or some other use I no longer remember... there were many innovations and experiments over the years. Many were also defined non conforming by the governing powers and many were simply failures. I think the Eye 2's were made to conform but someone in the USGA declared it non conforming and used as proof a convoluted means of measurement that would find a difference in the Eye 2 and only the Eye 2. It was only after the USGA and other governing bodies became gun shy that manufacturers went wild with innovations.

Other factors are the development of the computer at a more affordable cost which tool made a lot of designing possible more quickly at a much reduced cost. There are a lot of computations involved in producing a new model golf club and club designers needed to learn programming to be able to take advantage. It was a period of innovation and more than Golf Clubs took advantage of that new tool. Anybody else remember when portable computers had to be carried in luggage carts, or Cel phones were the size of bricks ? Now both exist in a phone the size of a pocketbook and only because anything smaller becomes too difficult to read the screen on.

The tools for change became more affordable sometime in the nineties and many many products, including Golf, took advantage of those tools. Before then, he computers were too slow and needed too much expensive ram to be a lot of use for most. That time was good for the writers and accountants but I don't think many others could take much advantage until the 90's were well on their way.



Shambles

[BIG STU]

Shambles you got that dead on. Karsten was so far ahead of his time engineering wise that the USGA could not keep up with him. Look at his innovations to name a few The Ping Anser putter the most copied putter of all time now. He even reverse engineered the popular 8802 Wilson and his new and improved version was called the Sedonia. He invented a lot of great putters too. Eye2 irons probably the most classic club in play today even among those folks that do not consider themselves classic golfers like we do. I know one guy that has played Eye2s ever since they came out and has 5 spare sets. Heck he bought 2 sets from me when we had the shop. Karsten set the bar high and got smart engineering types to thinking and that is where we are today

[Danny Young]

Love reading these posts , its seems there is a lot of wise people

[Woodrow]

[quote name='ima_golfer' timestamp='1437259999' post='11974768']
It seems like club makers are coming out with "newer and better" models of their brand every few months. I've been looking on eBay and ran across an old set of paying ISI beryllium copper clubs. What is your opinion on grabbing a set like that versus going out and buying a new set or finding a nice used set? I played to a scratch handicap about 20 years ago and I'm at about a 6-8 right now but I'm still very particular about the clubs I play.
[/quote]

Go for it. The caveat being most clubmakers don't work with copper anymore especially with re shafting so make sure the dot is correct for your height.

[Woodrow]

I play a classic blade from a now defunct Canadian Company. Accuform. My driving hit the skids with the graphite shaft. Saying that I play an older Taylor head, the 520 with a heavier older graphite shaft. Wood's are laminate with steel shafts. Of course my putter is a 40 year old Acushnet. I bent the shaft on the putter to produce a flat lie.

Here's the thing. I absolutely hate the jacked up irons. Hate it. I hit the older 7 iron 150 yds. That club today is an 8 or 9 iron. Today I can play 4-pw, and only carry a 58 degree sand iron. To bring that make up into focus, Tom Watson plays a 58 in the bunkers.

And have you noticed that some players are putting steel shafts in their metal heads for MORE control. This is apparently a 'new' thing.

Finally graphite manufacturers are producing heavier graphite shafts to offer the accuracy of steel. I do have a number of sets re shafted with heavier graphite because it is far easier on the joints.

But this adjustable driver, jacked up lofts crap will seemingly last forever. And of course the player who has 4 wedges in the bag. Not sure what I'd do with a 62 degree wedge. Perhaps weed the garden.

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='scomac2002' timestamp='1437324967' post='11978540']
[quote name='Code-RED' timestamp='1437313718' post='11977638']
I know lot of guys that look like they belong on the pga tour but I outplay them with my 30 year old clubs.
[/quote]

[...] For me, the best of both worlds is to use a modern driver with a vintage set. That combo has resulted in my best scores to date.
[/quote]

I agree. From a pure performance point of view, I have no concerns going out to play with 30 year old irons, wedge and putter. Driver is an R1, which if score or carry distance is paramount, has the edge. But if I'm out myself for fresh air, practice and pleasure, I still prefer steel shafted persimmon.

[quote name='Woodrow' timestamp='1441674304' post='12278212']
I play a classic blade from a now defunct Canadian Company. Accuform. My driving hit the skids with the graphite shaft. Saying that I play an older Taylor head, the 520 with a heavier older graphite shaft. Wood's are laminate with steel shafts. Of course my putter is a 40 year old Acushnet. I bent the shaft on the putter to produce a flat lie.

Here's the thing. I absolutely hate the jacked up irons. Hate it. I hit the older 7 iron 150 yds. That club today is an 8 or 9 iron. Today I can play 4-pw, and only carry a 58 degree sand iron. To bring that make up into focus, Tom Watson plays a 58 in the bunkers.

And have you noticed that some players are putting steel shafts in their metal heads for MORE control. This is apparently a 'new' thing.

Finally graphite manufacturers are producing heavier graphite shafts to offer the accuracy of steel. I do have a number of sets re shafted with heavier graphite because it is far easier on the joints.

But this adjustable driver, jacked up lofts crap will seemingly last forever. And of course the player who has 4 wedges in the bag. Not sure what I'd do with a 62 degree wedge. Perhaps weed the garden.
[/quote]

I'm with you on the iron lofts thing. Within reason, I'll bend irons back into line with what I find useful. That's at least 50*, preferably 52* PW and 4* gaps up the set from there. If pushed, I'll accept more modern clubs being basically 1 club strong and I then have a nice 52* Vokey that can slot in as a second, "true" pitching wedge. One of the disappointments of my equipment junkie life is the set of Hogan Apex Edge Pros that I acquired. I got 3 - 9 irons, but that set is based on a 46* PW - so what I really need there is a second, "true" 9 iron.

I like adjustable drivers though. I'm probably using it backwards though. I set mine to maximum loft, which is 12* or so and left it there for months as I didn't find it flying too high. Only this summer, with burnt out running fairways and some fairly fresh breezes, did I adjust it downwards a notch. Can't beat the forgiveness of a generously lofted driver and anything over 10.5* is rare to find in a market that is seemingly more concerned with the risk of "moonballs" and every last yard of driving distance.

[scomac2002]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1441711169' post='12279770']
Can't beat the forgiveness of a generously lofted driver and anything over 10.5* is rare to find in a market that is seemingly more concerned with the risk of "moonballs" and every last yard of driving distance.
[/quote]

I think this is pretty funny too! Anyone that I have ever played with that was legitimately long off the tee hit the ball high. It's the only way you're going to get carry -- you can't get distance without carry! I played last week with an older retired chap who I would peg in his early 70's -- lithe, athletic build; he was a legit 250+ off the tee carry and hit the ball very high using a TM R9 Superdeep -- same fellow that I mentioned playing the Otey Chrisman. It was impressive; a beautiful draw never missing the fairway. Sometimes I think people don't realize how high pros hit the ball even from the tee with a driver.