side saddle putters - what putter are you using?

[bluedot]

21 hours ago, Joe Duffer said:

B-Dot, out of your many side saddle options, have you decided on your gamer? F-22?

Long answer to a short question:
 

For several months now, I’ve been going back and forth between the F22, the DF 2.1, and the Mezz XL.  With all 3, I’m putting ok in terms of consistently two putting, but I am not making many makeable birdie putts.  All 3 are great putters, and I’m putting in a ton of really purposeful practice time with each.
 

Switching ANY club this way is very much unlike me, but I’ve been working really hard on my putting and I’m trying to get it right.  I’m a couple of years into dealing with some vision issues because of damage to my right eye, and I just don’t see subtle slopes on the green the way I used to.  No real problems with the full swing, but I’ve had to rework EVERYTHING in my short game because of really poor depth perception.  
 

My whole life, I tended to miss on the high side; now I don’t.   So I’ve been working with alignment sticks, AimPoint, and heavy duty spot putting trying to find a reliable work-around; even went to a sports vision specialist looking for help.  ( The only”help” I was able to get was the knowledge that I would tend to miss to the side of my very dominant left eye, all other things equal. Which seems to be true, though I’m not sure quite what to do with that info.) The putter switching has been to try to figure out if one of those will be a better fit for my particular issues.  

[bluedot]

Question:  Are any of you putting left handed because of eye dominance in order to get your dominant eye more over the line of the putt?

 

[RANGERS032]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

Question:  Are any of you putting left handed because of eye dominance in order to get your dominant eye more over the line of the putt?

 

Yes, Face on Left handed and left eye dominant.  I've played and putted conventionally right handed for 45 years.  Switched to face on putting left handed a month ago.  I'm allready as good or better than I ever was as a righty. Maybe because I am left handed, or maybe it's the eye thing.

[willwagner]

I'm face-on left handed as a right-handed golfer.  I throw left handed too so it made sense for me to do face on that direction.

 

I do think the left eye dominant was a big reason I was alway streaky and made traditional putting for me harder.  My alignment was always a bit off, the ball too forward in my stance, etc.  I probably could have done better if I had gotten fitted for a putter.

 

I like having my left eye close to the target line at address too.

[BigEx44]

On 11/2/2022 at 8:12 AM, bluedot said:

Twice in the last month, I’ve been in the same senior tournaments with two other veteran side saddle guys, both of whom are VERY good putters, and both of whom were using putters I hadn’t seen before, at least as side saddle options.

 

The first one was a Hogan Big Ben Bettinardi, and the second was a Bobby Grace MacGregor V Foil.  The guy using the BG had been in Bobby’s shop in Highlands, NC and the V Foil was actually a trade in that Bobby had bought back.  He loved it; said it’s the best he’s ever used, and he’s been side saddle for over 10 years now.  The other guy using the Hogan has been putting side saddle for over 20 years.

 

Its always refreshing and reinforcing to run across another side saddle guy, and to see what they’re doing in terms of grip, setup, and the putter they’re using.  And it also helps to see that EVERY side saddle guy that I run into is a very, very good putter.

 

 

Lol.....I have both of those putters!

(from back in my day when I was experimenting with long putters)

The Bettinardi is a bit too light for me.

The BG V Foil IS a great putter but is a bit too long for me.  I bought the putter at 48 inches.  I like to sidesaddle with a 46 inch putter.

I haven't cut the V Foil down because I'm keeping it as an option should I ever decide to go longer.

 

[Joe Duffer]

 

On 11/2/2022 at 5:12 AM, bluedot said:

Twice in the last month, I’ve been in the same senior tournaments with two other veteran side saddle guys, both of whom are VERY good putters, and both of whom were using putters I hadn’t seen before, at least as side saddle options.

 

The first one was a Hogan Big Ben Bettinardi, and the second was a Bobby Grace MacGregor V Foil.  The guy using the BG had been in Bobby’s shop in Highlands, NC and the V Foil was actually a trade in that Bobby had bought back.  He loved it; said it’s the best he’s ever used, and he’s been side saddle for over 10 years now.  The other guy using the Hogan has been putting side saddle for over 20 years.

 

 

Blue, did either/both of these Side Saddle guys putt with a vertical shaft? 

IIRC, that V-Foil had a pretty aggressive tri-sole design, which would lend itself nicely to a 90° stroke.

[Joe Duffer]

For decades I've putted Side Saddle with Matzie Golf Charles Owens "Slim Jim" putters, but after witnessing all of the high praise bestowed on the Bobby Grace F-22 here on this thread, I gave in and grabbed one off eBay last week. The price seemed more than fair and the length was ideal for me. Its overall weight is 813g @ 48". It has seven weight ports, with (5) 13g and (2) 30g weights. The 30g weights came located in the wings. Hopefully I got the right one, as BlueDot doesn't post images and Big's appears to be gold??

Wish me luck boys... I guess we'll see if an old dog can learn new tricks! 😂

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Joe Duffer

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, Joe Duffer said:

 

Blue, did either/both of these Side Saddle guys putt with a vertical shaft? 

IIRC, that V-Foil had a pretty aggressive tri-sole design, which would lend itself nicely to a 90° stroke.

You’re right; the guy with the V-foil was more vertical than the guy with the Hogan.  But fwiw neither one had their putter completely soled.  The V-Foil sole looks VERY much like the F22.

[bluedot]

28 minutes ago, Joe Duffer said:

For decades I've putted Side Saddle with Matzie Golf Charles Owens "Slim Jim" putters, but after witnessing all of the high praise bestowed on the Bobby Grace F-22 here on this thread, I gave in and grabbed one off eBay last week. The price seemed more than fair and the length was ideal for me. Its overall weight is 813g @ 48". It has seven weight ports, with (5) 13g and (2) 30g weights. The 30g weights came located in the wings. Hopefully I got the right one, as BlueDot doesn't post images and Big's appears to be gold??

Wish me luck boys... I guess we'll see if an old dog can learn new tricks! 😂

 

I think/hope you like it; it’s really a great club for anyone, but especially for what we do.  I think the two big advantages are the way the sole allows you to get close to 90* w/o much loss of sweet spot, and the really tight roll it puts on the ball.  

 

I’ve never thought that the 90* thing was a big deal in terms of the stroke itself, but now with some major right eye issues and being left eye dominant to a crazy extent, I’m finding that the F22 lets me get into a stance that comfortably puts my eyes looking straight down my intended line.  And that IS a big deal for me at this point.
 

 

[BigEx44]

18 hours ago, Joe Duffer said:

For decades I've putted Side Saddle with Matzie Golf Charles Owens "Slim Jim" putters, but after witnessing all of the high praise bestowed on the Bobby Grace F-22 here on this thread, I gave in and grabbed one off eBay last week. The price seemed more than fair and the length was ideal for me. Its overall weight is 813g @ 48". It has seven weight ports, with (5) 13g and (2) 30g weights. The 30g weights came located in the wings. Hopefully I got the right one, as BlueDot doesn't post images and Big's appears to be gold??

Wish me luck boys... I guess we'll see if an old dog can learn new tricks! 😂

 

You have the right one.

I love the F22's so much - I bought a second as a backup.

One is the black color like in your pictures.

The other is gold.

They're identical other than the color.

The only changes I made to my F22, was replacing the front 30g weights with the lighter 13g weights.

[Joe Duffer]

Regarding the F-22, does anyone know what weights come installed initially from Bobby's shop?

Is the original weight distribution similar to what mine shows (5@13g and 2@30g w/ the 30g weights in the wings)?

I also looked on Bobby's website but couldn't find any reference to the loft. - Can anyone provide a link to where this is listed?

 

 

 

[bluedot]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:22 PM, Joe Duffer said:

Regarding the F-22, does anyone know what weights come installed initially from Bobby's shop?

Is the original weight distribution similar to what mine shows (5@13g and 2@30g w/ the 30g weights in the wings)?

I also looked on Bobby's website but couldn't find any reference to the loft. - Can anyone provide a link to where this is listed?

 

 

 

On mine, all four corners, plus the two back center weights were 30g.  The only one I’m not sure about is the front center sole weight because I couldn’t get it out to weigh it, but I’m assuming it also is a 30g weight.

 

I believe that if you have 13g weights anywhere, the previous owner bought those from BG put them in.  I replaced the original front corner weights on mine with 13g weights, and like it a lot better on fast greens.  
 

Fwiw, when this discussion came up a couple of years ago, I emailed BG to ask him whether it was better to replace the front or back corners with the 13g weights to lighten the club, and he said the front corners.

 

I can’t answer the loft question, though I have 1* stuck in my head.  I believe that there is something about the radius of the insert that reduces the effective loft from the static loft, but I’m just not sure.  Sorry…

[dixiethunder]

As many others on here have said, thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I've never tried SS before but have a F-22 on its way as speak. I've actually been putting with  Bobby Grace putter for a long time and he was nice enough to take a backup in as a trade towards a SS putter which made it a little easier to pull the trigger. Excited to get some work in this winter and see where it goes.

 

One thing I find interesting having read this entire thread, when I called Bobby to discuss SS he strongly recommended a putter that is shorter than it sounds like most on here are using. I'm 6'1 and he recommended the putter at 43. I didn't realize how many people on here were playing theirs closer to 48. I trust Bobby so I'm going to going with it but nice to know there are other options if I find that too short. 

[Horseshoe2]

I have a Honu putter head on the way which I will fit with a long shaft. It is balanced like L.A.B.  So it will be interesting. Will post once I have tried.

[bluedot]

20 hours ago, dixiethunder said:

As many others on here have said, thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I've never tried SS before but have a F-22 on its way as speak. I've actually been putting with  Bobby Grace putter for a long time and he was nice enough to take a backup in as a trade towards a SS putter which made it a little easier to pull the trigger. Excited to get some work in this winter and see where it goes.

 

One thing I find interesting having read this entire thread, when I called Bobby to discuss SS he strongly recommended a putter that is shorter than it sounds like most on here are using. I'm 6'1 and he recommended the putter at 43. I didn't realize how many people on here were playing theirs closer to 48. I trust Bobby so I'm going to going with it but nice to know there are other options if I find that too short. 

Bobby isn’t the only one who likes a shorter putter.  Juan Elizondo, who makes and sells the JuanPutt and has been a putting coach for a number of Tour pros, also talks about it in one of his videos.  He uses the phrase “Get low to go low”, I believe.

 

I’ve settled at 44”, which isn’t short at all but IS shorter for my height (6-1) than most of the side saddle manufacturers recommend.  
 

This is, of course, one of the issues that probably keeps more players from giving side saddle a try; you can’t walk into Golf Galaxy and try out the side saddle putters to see what specs suit you best.  My hall closet is a museum of side saddle putters, WAY more than I ever had with conventional putters.

 

Good luck with this.  The F22 is a great piece of equipment.

[BigEx44]

4 hours ago, bluedot said:

Bobby isn’t the only one who likes a shorter putter.  Juan Elizondo, who makes and sells the JuanPutt and has been a putting coach for a number of Tour pros, also talks about it in one of his videos.  He uses the phrase “Get low to go low”, I believe.

 

I’ve settled at 44”, which isn’t short at all but IS shorter for my height (6-1) than most of the side saddle manufacturers recommend.  
 

This is, of course, one of the issues that probably keeps more players from giving side saddle a try; you can’t walk into Golf Galaxy and try out the side saddle putters to see what specs suit you best.  My hall closet is a museum of side saddle putters, WAY more than I ever had with conventional putters.

 

Good luck with this.  The F22 is a great piece of equipment.

Length is so subjective.  It's whatever feels right for you.

Because on the other end of the spectrum is PR Dionne (from GP Putter) who recommends a 49" length putter for someone who is 6'0 or 6'1'.

I have settled in on a 46.5 inch putter and I'm 6'0".

But I like standing just a bit taller and I find it easier on my back.

Whatever works!

[Joe Duffer]

So... how about mirrors for sidesaddle? 

Has anyone used a putting mirror to help with setup and alignment consistency?

 

[BigEx44]

9 hours ago, Joe Duffer said:

So... how about mirrors for sidesaddle? 

Has anyone used a putting mirror to help with setup and alignment consistency?

 

 

I think the putting mirror is a practice tool not needed or relevant to sidesaddle putting.

It's main purpose for traditional putting is to make sure someone sets up with enough bend at their waist to ensure their eyes are on the target line (or over the ball)

With sidesaddle putting our eyes are behind the ball and we're using binocular vision to already see the line much better (vs traditional putting).

So I'm not sure what purpose a putting mirror would serve for sidesaddle?

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, BigEx44 said:

 

I think the putting mirror is a practice tool not needed or relevant to sidesaddle putting.

It's main purpose for traditional putting is to make sure someone sets up with enough bend at their waist to ensure their eyes are on the target line (or over the ball)

With sidesaddle putting our eyes are behind the ball and we're using binocular vision to already see the line much better (vs traditional putting).

So I'm not sure what purpose a putting mirror would serve for sidesaddle?

I think you are spot on, BigEx.  I’ve looked ar the mirror devices but haven’t been able to see how they would apply to what I’m doing.
 

The only device I’ve used for side saddle is the putting track Juan Elizondo sent with the JuanPutt I bought years ago, and I use a version of that still with alignment sticks laid parallel on the green on a straight, flat putt to make me focus on releasing down the line. 

[BigEx44]

15 minutes ago, bluedot said:

I think you are spot on, BigEx.  I’ve looked ar the mirror devices but haven’t been able to see how they would apply to what I’m doing.
 

The only device I’ve used for side saddle is the putting track Juan Elizondo sent with the JuanPutt I bought years ago, and I use a version of that still with alignment sticks laid parallel on the green on a straight, flat putt to make me focus on releasing down the line. 

 

Yes, a putting track is a good training aid.

 

The only other thing I could see as helpful would be something that ensures the putter face is square to the target line at setup or contact.  Something like a laser (for setup).  Or simply hitting into a block of wood and feeling if the putter face is square (at contact).

[bluedot]

12 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

 

Yes, a putting track is a good training aid.

 

The only other thing I could see as helpful would be something that ensures the putter face is square to the target line at setup or contact.  Something like a laser (for setup).  Or simply hitting into a block of wood and feeling if the putter face is square (at contact).

Both great ideas.

[BigEx44]

9 hours ago, bluedot said:

Both great ideas.

I forgot to add:  On the practice putting mat I have in my cellar - there's a "T" painted where you'd setup.  Allows me to see if my putter face is square to the hole at setup.

[Joe Duffer]

On 12/3/2022 at 2:41 AM, BigEx44 said:

I think the putting mirror is a practice tool not needed or relevant to sidesaddle putting.

It's main purpose for traditional putting is to make sure someone sets up with enough bend at their waist to ensure their eyes are on the target line (or over the ball)

With sidesaddle putting our eyes are behind the ball and we're using binocular vision to already see the line much better (vs traditional putting).

So I'm not sure what purpose a putting mirror would serve for sidesaddle?

 

On 12/3/2022 at 4:16 AM, bluedot said:

I think you are spot on, BigEx.  I’ve looked at the mirror devices but haven’t been able to see how they would apply to what I’m doing.
The only device I’ve used for side saddle is the putting track Juan Elizondo sent with the JuanPutt I bought years ago, and I use a version of that still with alignment sticks laid parallel on the green on a straight, flat putt to make me focus on releasing down the line. 

 

- So at address both of you guys have your eyes "behind the ball"? - If so, why and how far behind the ball are they?

- How far is the heel of your putter (F-22) from the edge of your shoe while you're making a stroke?

- Have you ever grazed your shoe while making a stroke or instinctively altered your stroke slightly to avoid hitting your foot?

- Have you ever made what felt like a good stroke, but the ball started left or right of your intended line?

- At address, if your dominant eye was positioned slightly left or right of your intended starting line, do you suppose that would have any effect on where the ball starts?

- Right behind the ball, If we had a T-square set up perfectly to our intended starting line, would that help with face alignment?

 

These are just questions that came to mind well considering the value of a putting mirror...

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Joe Duffer

[BigEx44]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:25 PM, Joe Duffer said:

 

 

- So at address both of you guys have your eyes "behind the ball"? - If so, why and how far behind the ball are they?

- How far is the heel of your putter (F-22) from the edge of your shoe while you're making a stroke?

- Have you ever grazed your shoe while making a stroke or instinctively altered your stroke slightly to avoid hitting your foot?

- Have you ever made what felt like a good stroke, but the ball started left or right of your intended line?

- At address, if your dominant eye was positioned slightly left or right of your intended starting line, do you suppose that would have any effect on where the ball starts?

- Right behind the ball, If we had a T-square set up perfectly to our intended starting line, would that help with face alignment?

 

These are just questions that came to mind well considering the value of a putting mirror...

 

 

Here's a visual example of my setup:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/63r4wre6hmy88pa/VID_20180614_201330493.mp4?dl=0

 

-I would say my eyes are a few inches behind the ball.  Helps me to see the line better.  Also, the ball in a slightly forward position ensures I'm hitting it with a slight "upstroke".

-My putter is about 1/2 inch outside my right foot on my backswing.  I like to think of my right foot as a putter guide that encourages me to use a straight back straight thru stroke.  It's like having a "training aid" on the course while I'm playing!

-Yes, I can sometimes open or close the putter head during the stroke or accidently setup that way.  I'm certainly not a machine....lol.....

-I'm right eye dominant and not sure how the other eye being dominant would effect my setup or stroke.

-"T" would definitely help!  I practice with T square all the time.

Edited December 21, 2022 by BigEx44

[Horseshoe2]

Just got a new toy. I have a traditional Honu putter and love the feel, just can’t seem to put regular without pulling things left, therefore , always revert back to face on. The folks at Honu Putters do not make a long shaft but they worked with me to give me a 400g head drilled at 79 degrees. I installed a long 46” shaft and am off and running. A little adjusting for my stroke since my most recent putter has been the Bomar Blaze, this head is a bit wider but not as wide as the F22 which I got rid of due to hitting my foot due to width.  So far good results! Has the best feel of any putter I ever had.

[bluedot]

11 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

 

Here's a visual example of my setup:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/63r4wre6hmy88pa/VID_20180614_201330493.mp4?dl=0

 

-I would say my eyes are a few inches behind the ball.  Helps me to see the line better.  Also, the ball in a slightly forward position ensures I'm hitting it with a slight "upstroke".

-My putter is about 1/2 inch inside my right foot on my backswing.  I like to think of my right foot as a putter guide that encourages me to use a straight back straight thru stroke.  It's like having a "training aid" on the course while I'm playing!

-Yes, I can sometimes open or close the putter head during the stroke or accidently setup that way.  I'm certainly not a machine....lol.....

-I'm right eye dominant and not sure how the other eye being dominant would effect my setup or stroke.

-"T" would definitely help!  I practice with T square all the time.

I'm very similar to this.  It's a couple of inches between my right foot to the putter as it swings back; if I've ever hit my foot (and I must have?) I don't remember it, and it absolutely isn't a concern.  I'd guess that my head, like BigEx, is behind the ball by a few inches.  The ball is almost a foot in front of my right foot, but I'm leaning forward onto my right foot a bit, so I think my head is probably a bit in front of my right foot.

 

My primary difference from BigEx is that I am not only left eye dominant, but my right eye is basically useless now; very poor vision and greatly reduced field of vision, so I've really sort of been playing with one eye from the last couple of years.   With putting, I think I was lucky that I'd already converted to face on. 

 

I lean a bit to my right until I'm sure that my head and left eye is positioned so that I'm looking down the line I've picked (I'm a spot putter; always have been) BEFORE I drop my right hand down to the putter grip so that my right arm is hanging straight down and the elbow isn't sticking out.  (I'm a retired basketball coach; elbow in is gospel for shooters, and putting face on "feels" like the setup and stroke of shooting free throws, just flipped on a different plane.)

 

I've sort of "evolved" to that sequence so that I get my left eye as well-positioned as possible; otherwise, I tend to miss left, especially on shorter putts that are breaking left anyway.  I tend to under-read right to left break on shorter stuff where AimPoint doesn't work as well. I was warned by a ophthalmologist with a specialty in sports vision that I'd tend to miss toward the side of my (very) dominant eye, so this is sort of a workaround for me.

[Ripper212]

On 12/20/2022 at 7:17 AM, BigEx44 said:

 

Here's a visual example of my setup:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/63r4wre6hmy88pa/VID_20180614_201330493.mp4?dl=0

 

-I would say my eyes are a few inches behind the ball.  Helps me to see the line better.  Also, the ball in a slightly forward position ensures I'm hitting it with a slight "upstroke".

-My putter is about 1/2 inch inside my right foot on my backswing.  I like to think of my right foot as a putter guide that encourages me to use a straight back straight thru stroke.  It's like having a "training aid" on the course while I'm playing!

-Yes, I can sometimes open or close the putter head during the stroke or accidently setup that way.  I'm certainly not a machine....lol.....

-I'm right eye dominant and not sure how the other eye being dominant would effect my setup or stroke.

-"T" would definitely help!  I practice with T square all the time.

Not sure you actually meant inside right foot. That would be straddling. Unless I'm reading this wrong.

[BigEx44]

4 minutes ago, Ripper212 said:

Not sure you actually meant inside right foot. That would be straddling. Unless I'm reading this wrong.

 

Oops....I meant "outside" of my right foot......

[Joe Duffer]

On 12/20/2022 at 4:17 AM, BigEx44 said:

-I would say my eyes are a few inches behind the ball.  Helps me to see the line better.  Also, the ball in a slightly forward position ensures I'm hitting it with a slight "upstroke".

-My putter is about 1/2 inch outside my right foot on my backswing.  I like to think of my right foot as a putter guide that encourages me to use a straight back straight thru stroke.  It's like having a "training aid" on the course while I'm playing!

-Yes, I can sometimes open or close the putter head during the stroke or accidently setup that way.  I'm certainly not a machine....lol.....

-I'm right eye dominant and not sure how the other eye being dominant would effect my setup or stroke.

-"T" would definitely help!  I practice with T square all the time.

Big, are you "OK" with adding in that extra 5-6° of loft at impact? 

Could that possibly lead to putts starting to the right of your aim line?

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Joe Duffer

[BigEx44]

5 hours ago, Joe Duffer said:

Big, are you "OK" with adding in that extra 5-6° of loft at impact? 

Could that possibly lead to putts starting to the right of your aim line?

 

I don't think I'm adding an extra 5-6* of loft with my setup.

And even if I was, I don't think it would impact ball direction at all.  It would impact the roll (I would get a bounce from hitting the top of the ball....)