Mac O'Grady: Off the Deap End?

[hayam]

Its not simply the equipments making the person a "Better" player. It changes the way the game have to be played. And the sets of skills required to play the game.

 

Mac Pointing out Tiger is as clear as an example that people can miss fairways yet long can still win the Major, it became a wedge and putting competition. The game no longer reward better ball striker and shot maker.

 

How is it fair to people who can hit find the short grass all the time, and better ball strikers, but lose out to the strayed long hitters?

 

Most of you here are just reacting to the Matchplay incidence, and not reading carefully. and Mac is not the first person who said this.

[2DOWN3TOGO]

I'm sure the old champions of past are glad that Tiger was not around then. Tiger would of smoked them back then too. O'grady is jealous and a nobody.

[jared]

How is it fair to people who can hit find the short grass all the time, and better ball strikers, but lose out to the strayed long hitters?

 

Angel Cabrera

Jim Furyk

Tiger Woods

Niclas Fasth

David Toms

Bubba Watson

Nick Dougherty

Scott Verplank

Jerry Kelly

Justin Rose

Stephen Ames

Paul Casey

Lee Janzen

 

Theres the top 13 finishers in the US open. The ones highlighted in bold are not known for distance being there fortay. The point is they "shorter hitters" are not losing out this is perfect evidence to support that. If you asked anyone on tour what Tiger Woods best attribute is do you think they would say distance? Not a single one would. In fact they would not say that about any of the top 10 in the world. These courses are not setup to reward crooked shots look at Furyks much discussed chip shot on 17 he could barely see the ball....you have to keep it in the fairway to win.

[Zach Heusser]

Ok guys I know people have strong opinions about Mac, but let's stay within the rules in this thread.

thanks Zach

[Dizz]

A set of mp60's, 905R driver, vokey wedges, a cameron putter, and a prov1x ball. I'll shoot you par or better on a good day.

 

A set of small blades, persimon woods, blade putter, and a balata ball(or worse). I 'll shot you a 82+ on a good day.

 

Technology has made us all better. Everything that has been made in the last 10 years has been made to help us hit it straighter and longer.

 

Golft courses haven't gotten that much longer. You are still playing the ole country club that your dad played and was built in 1945. Your just doing it with better equipment.

 

The PGA hypes it up. They play plenty of sub 7000 yards courses.

 

Completely whole heartedly disagree. You mean to tell me that equipment is the difference between scratch and a 12 handicaper? Your crazy. The length of the courses is just part of it my friend. The length of the rough the pin placements the speed of the greens all of these things have changed. If your statement was true half the players on tour would not be good enough to play on tour. I got news for you...Tiger etc etc would have been just as good 40 years as good as he is now. All equipment has done realistically is even the playing field letting shorter hitters hit the ball further. Thats why the fields are deeper there are more talented golfers than ever before. Look at Cabrera the guy was probably 100000-1 to win the Open, you never know who is going to step up that given week.

 

Look at golf circa 10 years ago when i played in college. I used a balata ball, I used a 1st generation GBB and ping eye 2's. I played a lot better back then.

 

 

I agree, no way does equipment make that big of a difference. Good players can play well with pretty much anything. The more they roll back grooves, drivers, balls, etc is only gonna help Tiger. He won a ton of college tournaments, US Junior AMs and the US Am using Mizuno blades, and the Professional 90/100, hes the best player in the world for a reason.

[thorsness]

Every sport is going to evolve, get over it.

[S70B]

Mac's just a loud mouth.

 

Jack said something before about Tiger : That his most advance and modern club is the one that gives him the most problem. So how do you justify that advancement in technology is what made Tiger sub-human?

 

What techonology did was made other not-so-great players now compete on a more level field with Tiger and that is why he's not winning by 9-15 shots anymore. Remember, his debatable best season was 1999-2000 and then Pro V1 came out.

 

I am playing alot better equipment then when I started in my junior years in the early 90s but the score's I'm shooting now are only about 5 shots better and its not becos I hit it better but its cos II'm a better putter than when I was younger.

[Sean2]

This swing could hit hickory shafted clubs and still win: http://www.nike.com/nikegolf/swingportrait...=usgf_em_062906

[dana dahlquist]

Ive played with Mac and have known him for a while. Sorry guys he can say what he wants. He still will hit it better than anyone on this forum with his 1979 Hogan personal's.

You guys may think he's a has been.

 

- Butch makes his teachers watch his lesson tapes learn. Because MAC is the real guru.

[hillster32]

I think Tech has definitely changed the game... for better or worse IDK. But if they scaled it all back on tour, I think Tigers dominance would only increase. Tech has help players get closer to him, It has not helped him become more dominant.

 

Personally, I wish they would scale it back on tour. I have no problem watching A-Rod swing a wood bat then going out and using my own aluminium bat when I play. I do not think it would hurt the popularity of the game at all if Pro's used 300cc drivers and deadened balls. Anybody who thinks they are playing the same game as Tiger is sadly mistaken anyway. The tech difference doesn't hurt the popularity of baseball. Of course, that sport has other "Tech" problems at the moment.

 

As far as O'Grady being "Off the deep End" ... Dissenting, "Crazy" opinions have led to some of the best innovations/ideas in history. Maybe his comments will lead to a response from Tiger in regards to equipment and that would really move the needle as far as the disscussion of Equipment on tour.

[roper1313]

My biggest problem with the article is not with Mac's stance on equipment, but with his evaluating of Tiger's talent. He rated Jack and Arnie a 9+ and Tiger a 1+. What a whack job. :bad:

[Ducky]

Bring back the hickory shafts!

[roper1313]

Ive played with Mac and have known him for a while. Sorry guys he can say what he wants. He still will hit it better than anyone on this forum with his 1979 Hogan personal's.

You guys may think he's a has been.

 

- Butch makes his teachers watch his lesson tapes learn. Because MAC is the real guru.

 

I have no problem with Mac making a statement about equipment. Why does he have to try and take a shot at one of the best players this game has ever seen.

 

IMO, we have 30,000 member on this board I'll take the field vs. MAC.

[hillster32]

Ive played with Mac and have known him for a while. Sorry guys he can say what he wants. He still will hit it better than anyone on this forum with his 1979 Hogan personal's.

You guys may think he's a has been.

 

- Butch makes his teachers watch his lesson tapes learn. Because MAC is the real guru.

 

I have no problem with Mac making a statement about equipment. Why does he have to try and take a shot at one of the best players this game has ever seen.

 

IMO, we have 30,000 member on this board I'll take the field vs. MAC.

 

 

43 Post and 917 views as of 9:29 EST - Thats why he took a shot at Woods and Wie. If he called out JP Hayes and Meg Mallon would there be this level of discussion?

[vthokie1157]

im sure im behind on this topic but i just wanna say it anyway- obviously after reading this i can only deduce that tiger woods and michelle wie are the only ones using new tech today. heck, i think im gonna go buy a square driver and get square grooves and join the tour if its that easy!

[villa]

That article really made me angry. Who the **** is Mac O'Grady and why does his opinion count for anything.

 

I'd have thought the bottom line is that the best players in the world will still be the best players in the world. He makes it sound like Tiger has vastly superior equipment to the rest of the players in the field.

 

Greg Norman annoyed me with his comments a while ago by saying that if Jack Nicklaus was playing modern equipment whilst in his prime, he'd be hitting it 400 yards. NO HE WOULDN'T!

 

Is Tiger better than Jack? We'll never know because equipment and courses have changed so much over that time.

 

Was Jack better than Bobby Jones or Ben Hogan? We'll never know because equipment and courses changed just as dramatically over that time but I don't hear Mac O'Grady making that argument.

[dana dahlquist]

Some times it takes some one to come out and stand for whats right. Mabey this will get Tiger to jump into the discussion on the tour level. He had to go with changes himself a few years back.

I still agree with Mac. When he was on the big stage he was in the top ten in overall driving distance out there.

What about the drug testing news? Notice how this has come up again, whom brought that up years ago?

 

Golf has ambassadors in many ways and many personalities, Mac is one of them. In today’s world it takes some shock to get peoples eyes and ears to notice.......

[dana dahlquist]

villa nice Avatar by the way......

[JuniorFinn]

New equipment has helped more Tigers opponents than Tiger. Tiger was hitting ball a mile before new technology shafts and 460cc heads.

 

And when Tiger was a youngster he played with "old school equipment" and STILL won over 250 juniour tournaments!

[bennycoop9882]

Guys, Tiger came on to the tour with a Cobra Deep faced steel headed driver. He had a X400 dynamic gold shaft tipped 2 1/2 inches down to 42 1/2" and he stepped on the first tee in 1996 and hit it 336 yards right down the middle. He was using a professional 90 I thnk. Maybe a tour balata. He was getting the significantly lower spin that everyone achieves with equipment now. He was significantly longer than anyone else at that time. The equipment started taking off and people started passing him in distance because of the technology. His tremendous advantage was lost. Back then, he was the only one hitting 6 iron's 200 yards and now its pretty common on tour. The other factor is all of the athletes that play golf now because of Tiger Woods. I would have stuck with baseball if not for watching Woods win the master.

[hayam]

USGA is trying their very best not to turn this game into a PUTT PUTT contest. Boom 300+ yards , pitch / chip and putt . Do everyone of you wants to see this game turn into Putt Putt? Remember how tennis became so boring during Pete Sampras era , shot seldom rally more than 5 shots?

 

I am sure Tiger would have issued a comment if he thinks Mac is not qualified to judge the state of the game.

[hoganfan924]

USGA is trying their very best not to turn this game into a PUTT PUTT contest. Boom 300+ yards , pitch / chip and putt . Do everyone of you wants to see this game turn into Putt Putt? Remember how tennis became so boring during Pete Sampras era , shot seldom rally more than 5 shots?

 

I am sure Tiger would have issued a comment if he thinks Mac is not qualified to judge the state of the game.

 

Hayam,

 

I agree with you but I think to Tiger, Mac isn't even on his radar screen. But to those of you who think Mac is a "nobody" think again. The man won twice on the PGA tour in spite of terrible putting and was admired by his peers as a great ballstriker, not to mention the guys who went to him as a swing coach, while he was still competing against them. No lesser players that Vijay Singh and Seve Ballesteros amongst many others. Mac has great admiration for Jack Nicklaus as both a player and a gentleman.

 

The writer of the article did a complete hack job on it and obviously misquoted Mac on a couple of occasions as was pointed out earlier so I think the entire article has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's quite possible when he said Jack was a 9 and Tiger a 1 he was talking about their relative "driving handicaps" Plus 1 for Tiger, Plus 9 for Jack. At least that's how I interpret that poorly written article.

 

Secondly, I had this very same technology discussion personally with Mac and I took the "devil's advocate" position of supporting the new technology. My position to him was that it can benefit everyone equally. Considering that Tiger was one of the last players to adopt a graphite shaft in his driver or a 460cc head and that he plays Nike blades, while other less talented players play game improvement irons, a good case I believe can be made that new technology makes it more difficult for Tiger to win because it brings more players into contention every week.

 

Mac's position is (for the pro tours):

 

Ban the 60 deg. lob wedge

Ban titanium drivers

Ban square grooves

 

Is this any different than allowing aluminum bats in college baseball but only wood bats in the pro's?

 

Why ban these clubs? Because as Hayam pointed out, this technology is turning professional golf into a bomb and gouge pitch and putt game and is severely reducing the importance of shotmaking and creative iron play. I think Johnny Miller shared the same sentiment last year as Mickelson almost won the darn US Open hitting 2 fairways on Sunday and I believe that's what he meant when he said "Ben Hogan has officially rolled over in his grave!"

 

Mac and I had a spirited debate. He went to his bag and pulled out a club, pulled the headcover off and it was an old Hogan persimmon driver. He hands it to me and says, "You think it's easy to hit one of these, give it a try!" Then he hands me three very old golf balls with that crummy "concentric dimple pattern" that he talked about in the article and says, "hit these!" With the rest of the class watching (all better players than me) I proceed to pipe all three right down the middle with about 235 of carry. I turn to him and say "that wasn't so tough." Kind of silenced Mac and ended our little debate and gave me a great story to share.

[right2left]

Back then, he was the only one hitting 6 iron's 200 yards and now its pretty common on tour.

 

Well....Davis Love might wanna have a conversation with you, because as far back as the late 80's, he was carrying his 6 iron 210. I've seen it live, as well as have it on tape.

 

I'm not sure why people insist on talking out there you-know-what, in order to attempt to make a point.

[hayam]

Great post Hoganfan.

 

Not to mention the longest drive in PGA is held by Austin using persimmon wood. and Shaun Fister's longest drive is using a Persimmon wood. I only understood from many article that Huge size titanium wood disguise Misses. not hit longer.

 

Tiger did say similar thing that they should ban Lob wedge and beyond too.

 

different balls, V grooves.. sounds promising..

 

Lets start to argue about how to solve the current situation than to bash Mac. I think they are better fun .

[Lake]

I am for anything that will help make this game more fun and attract more golfers to game. The PGA Tour, USGA, and R&A can make even par win whenever they want. Most of my members play from a tee box 5,500 yards long with a course rating of 67 and when they shoot their age or break 80 its like a first kiss all over again. I don't care if I host a two-club tournament with hickory shafts and gutta percha balls the best players still win the credit in the shop. However, they have a lot more fun swinging that PING Rapture with a Callaway Hot ball.

 

I don't know what to say about that article other than I'm glad to hear that he is still talking about a book. I think that will be good for the game of golf.

[Ducky]

When does this book come out? Has it even been written?

[trexx827]

Dana you got that right.

[trexx827]

Why do you want more golfers out there. There already is enough hacks and drunks taking up the tee times that good players cant get. The best thing that could happen is to go back to old equipment so all of these hacks would stay home and try other sports.

[2DOWN3TOGO]

Back then, he was the only one hitting 6 iron's 200 yards and now its pretty common on tour.

 

Well....Davis Love might wanna have a conversation with you, because as far back as the late 80's, he was carrying his 6 iron 210. I've seen it live, as well as have it on tape.

 

I'm not sure why people insist on talking out there you-know-what, in order to attempt to make a point.

 

And Davis was one of the last guy's to still use persimmon , right?

[trexx827]

Hey Matt. I will put mac and you together on the course and I will take mac and give you five shots a side. He would destroy you. He will probably end up making it on the tour again. He is that good. He is just fine tuning some things. He know more about the swing then anyone alive. And guys like johnny Miller and guys who have been there will agree.