Just got GHIN...Posting old scores but no dates?

[illmatik53]

Don't be mad, I searched the forums high and low for posting old scores, with no luck. So here I go.

 

I just decided to pay for a GHIN this year. Just got it today in fact and am trying to post old scores. Problem is, I got some old cards and don't have the dates... how would I go about posting scores if I didn't have the date on the card? I'm talking just casual play nothing tournament. Eventually I'd like to play tourney and post tourney scores... but until then, I'm trying to get a legit handicap so I can enter some tournaments.

 

Has anyone had any experience with posting old scores that didn't have a date on them?

 

If so, what date did you end up putting?

 

If not, what did you do about your old scores?

 

or are you just going to start basing your handicap on what you're shooting from here on out?

 

Has anyone ever transitioned from keeping scores on an app and then going official GHIN?

 

If so, did you re-enter all your old scores? Or did you start fresh?

 

Anyhow I'm sure some people will say I'm dumb for asking, but this is my first time actually getting a GHIN...before now I've used GolfShot for a little while then stopped when 'pulling out my phone' was distracting me from actually focusing on playing... so I went back to just carding my scores... unfortunately I didn't always put a date...stupid me.

 

I appreciate the help fellow golfers, anyone who's mad that I'm asking, please don't bother wasting your time posting. Thanks in advance!

[mark m]

First of all, relax and don't worry about the idiots. You are asking good questions.

 

Regarding your old scores: I understand you don't have dates, but do you at least know the order of the last few scores?

 

That would help. Once you have 5 scores in the system, you will get your first Index on the following revision date.

[bk52]

First of all, relax and don't worry about the idiots. You are asking good questions.

 

Regarding your old scores: I understand you don't have dates, but do you at least know the order of the last few scores?

 

That would help. Once you have 5 scores in the system, you will get your first Index on the following revision date.

 

This is good advice. As long as you have them in exact or roughly exact date order, the specific date means little. Just enter a date that puts them in proper order.

 

Before you do that, however, review the ESC process [ https://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=9 ] and make sure your scores are properly adjusted. Since you do not have a handicap, the system states you should use the maximum. If you have an unofficial online index, I might use that for determining your ESC limit.

 

Also, no scores made while playing alone should be used.

 

Best of luck keeping that handicap index low!

[illmatik53]

Thanks a lot!

 

So I did read about ESC before... ESC is determined by your handicap... but your handicap is determined by your scores... how can you determine your ESC if you don't know your handicap? Or from the get go, do you start assuming max handicap, and then adjust after that?

 

it seems like a chicken vs the egg thing...

 

When do you start applying ESC to your scores?

 

I always assumed the system would calculate your ESC for you... esp if you were inputting scores hole by hole, i.e. golfshot. Does that mean I need to actually adjust my score before entering just the raw number of strokes? I've input 18 scores already...

 

I signed up for GHIN so I could get an established handicap to start playing in some tournaments and what not... now I feel like I opened pandoras box trying to figure out how to properly score myself. hahaha

 

Last thing i want to do is put the wrong score or be inconsistent. I've always counted every stroke...regardless of ESC (never bothered since I wasn't sure what my handicap was). Confusing I know. This whole thing just got more confusing. haha.

 

In my case:

 

I've played a bunch of golf. I've got about 50 rounds over the last 2-3 years maybe... In all the cards, I've always counted no more than double par on any hole.

 

To be consistent, should I just continue to enter scores this way? Or should I correct the scores based on an assumed ESC?

 

Is there a limit to how far back I should go in posting up scores?

[illmatik53]

First of all, relax and don't worry about the idiots. You are asking good questions.

 

Regarding your old scores: I understand you don't have dates, but do you at least know the order of the last few scores?

 

That would help. Once you have 5 scores in the system, you will get your first Index on the following revision date.

 

Yeah, I think I have some roundabout dates for most of them. I mean, if it comes down to it, there's 52 weeks in a year, and I only have 50+ cards over the last two years... just do them once a week or once every two weeks apart. Some of them are the cards for my golfshot app, so I am pretty sure I have the dates in that app since I entered it when I played. Golfshot gave me a 'handicap' at one point, but I don't think it's legit because I am not paying and my scores aren't posted to any national system.

[bk52]

 

I've played a bunch of golf. I've got about 50 rounds over the last 2-3 years maybe... In all the cards, I've always counted no more than double par on any hole.

 

To be consistent, should I just continue to enter scores this way? Or should I correct the scores based on an assumed ESC?

 

Is there a limit to how far back I should go in posting up scores?

 

Don't input more than 20 rounds (18 hole or 20 9-hole rounds). The index is only computed on the most recent 20 so extra older scores are tossed.

 

The handicap manual says to use the maximum (10 a hole). If you have an online unofficial handicap, I would use that but to be strictly within the guidelines, a "10" max is the rule.

[illmatik53]

Thanks, that's good to know! Appreciate the info. After a revision, I'll wait to see what they calculate me at and then use that to determine how I should score myself (based on ESC) in future rounds.

[Augster]

The GHIN app makes posting a breeze. It's all I ever use anymore.

 

When posting, you need to ESC your own scores. Since you don't have a cap, you "can" post up to a 10 on any hole. But if you've had an online cap for a while, you know your index. They use the same formula. For accuracy, you "should" ESC to whatever you project your cap to be. You don't have to, but you should.

 

The next revision is Saturday, so you'll know your cap for sure then.

 

It's simple. Post scores after ESC. And only post scores when playing with at least one other person. If you're playing by yourself, don't post.

 

And as mentioned above, you only need to post the last 20. Unless you want the data in the app like all of your scores at your fingertips, how many rounds, score average for the year, etc.

 

Welcome to the club!

[illmatik53]

Thanks a lot! im going to keep pushing to get down to the single digits. I'm almost there.

 

Does the GHIN app have the ESC guide built in?

[BobHatcher]

Thanks a lot! im going to keep pushing to get down to the single digits. I'm almost there.

 

Does the GHIN app have the ESC guide built in?

 

There is a hole-by-hole feature in the GHIN app but I've never used it. That does have the ESC built in. Most people just know their max for each hole and record it on their scorecard.

[DaveLeeNC]

I am a little late to the party here, but there is an exception to the "only the last 20 scores matter". And that is "Tournament Scores" (see the Q/A about 2/3'rds the way down at http://www.usga.org/Handicapping/publications-25483/questions-and-answers-about-handicapping-001c75df.html ). In this case you need to designate rounds that are T score rounds when you post (it will be a posting option) and you need to include all T scores for the past year.

 

It sounds like this won't apply to the OP here, but for the sake of completeness ....

 

dave

[Augster]

I am a little late to the party here, but there is an exception to the "only the last 20 scores matter". And that is "Tournament Scores" (see the Q/A about 2/3'rds the way down at http://www.usga.org/Handicapping/publications-25483/questions-and-answers-about-handicapping-001c75df.html ). In this case you need to designate rounds that are T score rounds when you post (it will be a posting option) and you need to include all T scores for the past year.

 

It sounds like this won't apply to the OP here, but for the sake of completeness ....

 

dave

 

You, of course, are correct. Total oversight. I should have mentioned that but spaced it.

 

Good add.

[illmatik53]

When it comes to tournaments, do you include scrambles and better ball? If so, how would you even calculate those scores?

[Augster]

When it comes to tournaments, do you include scrambles and better ball? If so, how would you even calculate those scores?

 

Scrambles, no. Never.

 

To receive a "tournament" designation is pretty rare. Even men's club events throughout the year aren't considered "T scores". Just the "big" events are T-scores. Like a club championship and/or a member-guest.

 

Best ball events, fourball really, match or medal, are also postable. In simplified terms, on holes that you "pick up" instead of finishing out, you post your "most likely score" up to your ESC.

 

http://www.usga.org/Handicapping/handicap-manual.html#!rule-14379

 

 

[illmatik53]

interesting, I remember reading about "most likely score". How do you really judge yourself on that? or would you always post the ESC?

[Sawgrass]

interesting, I remember reading about "most likely score". How do you really judge yourself on that? or would you always post the ESC?

 

You estimate what you'd score from that position more than 59% of the time. Usually esc works.

[DaveLeeNC]

interesting, I remember reading about "most likely score". How do you really judge yourself on that? or would you always post the ESC?

 

https://www.usga.org...er.asp?FAQidx=7 is the USGA definition/description.

 

dave

 

ps. While I do not have a better proposal, this whole 'most likely score' is not exactly a strength of the USGA system.

[Augster]

interesting, I remember reading about "most likely score". How do you really judge yourself on that? or would you always post the ESC?

 

Most likely score only really comes in competition when you play a hole so bad you are in your pocket and using your partner's score, or when an opponent concedes a putt.

 

On good holes when bad things happen, it's pretty easy.

 

I have a PW in from 125 for my 3rd shot on a par 4, good lie. My opponent holes out for eagle. We want to keep play moving as weather is approaching so I'm inclined to pick up. I'd bet I hit that green 70% of the time. So I'd "most likely" hit the green. Then give me 2 putts. I record a 5 and go to the next tee box.

 

I have a 6-footer for bogey that is directly on my partner's line for birdie. So I don't show my partner the line, our opponents concede my putt. I can either write down a double, as I'd "most likely" 2-putt (5-feet is break even for amateurs), or I can wait until the hole is completed, then putt and try to make my bogey.

 

The "most likely score" is simple to figure out, especially when it is capped at ESC.

[illmatik53]

interesting, I remember reading about "most likely score". How do you really judge yourself on that? or would you always post the ESC?

 

Most likely score only really comes in competition when you play a hole so bad you are in your pocket and using your partner's score, or when an opponent concedes a putt.

 

On good holes when bad things happen, it's pretty easy.

 

I have a PW in from 125 for my 3rd shot on a par 4, good lie. My opponent holes out for eagle. We want to keep play moving as weather is approaching so I'm inclined to pick up. I'd bet I hit that green 70% of the time. So I'd "most likely" hit the green. Then give me 2 putts. I record a 5 and go to the next tee box.

 

I have a 6-footer for bogey that is directly on my partner's line for birdie. So I don't show my partner the line, our opponents concede my putt. I can either write down a double, as I'd "most likely" 2-putt (5-feet is break even for amateurs), or I can wait until the hole is completed, then putt and try to make my bogey.

 

The "most likely score" is simple to figure out, especially when it is capped at ESC.

 

So the pro at the course told me that you still card your raw score, but when you post on GHIN you post based on ESC. So wouldn't you still finish that hole out for your score to be legit? Or just take the max ESC for that hole?

 

Seems pretty subjective. I guess i'll have to make that determination myself when I come to it.

 

I only say this because let's say someone asked you "what did you shoot last week" and you had a couple holes like that where you said you put your 'most likely score', do you tell the guy "oh I shot an 85, but I estimated my score on 3 of those holes" or do you just say "my score isn't legit from last week because I didn't finish 3 holes" ? I know you can estimate and then post your card using ESC... But what stops a player from just choosing max ESC on a hole in order to help raise their handicap for an upcoming tournament or something? (Yes, I know it sounds far fetched).

 

Overall, I think I get it. Can't finish a hole, put the score you think you're most likely to get on that hole and call it a day. Picking up at double par is carding a double par, and then ESC of course. Picking up before par, well that's the estimate. Move on to the next hole.

[Sawgrass]

interesting, I remember reading about "most likely score". How do you really judge yourself on that? or would you always post the ESC?

 

Most likely score only really comes in competition when you play a hole so bad you are in your pocket and using your partner's score, or when an opponent concedes a putt.

 

On good holes when bad things happen, it's pretty easy.

 

I have a PW in from 125 for my 3rd shot on a par 4, good lie. My opponent holes out for eagle. We want to keep play moving as weather is approaching so I'm inclined to pick up. I'd bet I hit that green 70% of the time. So I'd "most likely" hit the green. Then give me 2 putts. I record a 5 and go to the next tee box.

 

I have a 6-footer for bogey that is directly on my partner's line for birdie. So I don't show my partner the line, our opponents concede my putt. I can either write down a double, as I'd "most likely" 2-putt (5-feet is break even for amateurs), or I can wait until the hole is completed, then putt and try to make my bogey.

 

The "most likely score" is simple to figure out, especially when it is capped at ESC.

 

So the pro at the course told me that you still card your raw score, but when you post on GHIN you post based on ESC. So wouldn't you still finish that hole out for your score to be legit? Or just take the max ESC for that hole?

 

Seems pretty subjective. I guess i'll have to make that determination myself when I come to it.

 

I only say this because let's say someone asked you "what did you shoot last week" and you had a couple holes like that where you said you put your 'most likely score', do you tell the guy "oh I shot an 85, but I estimated my score on 3 of those holes" or do you just say "my score isn't legit from last week because I didn't finish 3 holes" ? I know you can estimate and then post your card using ESC... But what stops a player from just choosing max ESC on a hole in order to help raise their handicap for an upcoming tournament or something? (Yes, I know it sounds far fetched).

 

Overall, I think I get it. Can't finish a hole, put the score you think you're most likely to get on that hole and call it a day. Picking up at double par is carding a double par, and then ESC of course. Picking up before par, well that's the estimate. Move on to the next hole.

 

Austeri has it right. Believe the Handicap Manual before you believe your pro.

[Augster]

Now you're getting too close to being incorrect by muddying the waters.

 

"Most likely score" is used primarily when playing match play as there are concessions and sometimes you just don't finish a hole because your partner is in with a better score or your opponent has already beat you on the hole.

 

Outside of match play, you'd only take "most likely score" on holes that you picked up for whatever reason. Holes that you'd be DQ in a formal competition if you didn't correct your error. But "most likely score" only applies if you pick up and quit the hole and go to the next tee. i.e. picking up an 8-inch putt and moving along. Or hit 2 OB or can't find your ball and tell your playing partners, "I'm done. I'm sitting the rest of the hole out."

 

Where "most likely score" does not apply, is when you have a lost ball, did not hit a provisional, and don't feel like going back to the tee. If you just say the heck with it and go to the next tee, you can post most likely score up to your ESC. BUT if you "drop where it went out" or "it's around here somewhere, I'll just drop", both illegal drops to keep play moving and not heading back to the previous spot, you have played the hole outside the Rules of Golf.

 

On holes where you do not play by the Rules, you post par plus any handicap strokes you would receive on that hole.

 

If you quit, you post most likely score. If you cheat, you post par plus any handicap strokes.

 

Other questions....

 

When I don't shoot a legit score, and someone asks what I shot, I say my number for handicap posting and let them know. "I shot an ESC'd 77 where I quit on 11."

 

As for what stops a player from using ESC max each hole? Easy, don't be a degenerate. There are plenty of handicap cheats out there and NONE of them cheat like that. The real cheats shoot 76, take all the money, and post 84.

 

That's the best way to cheat. Cheat all the way.

 

[illmatik53]

 

Outside of match play, you'd only take "most likely score" on holes that you picked up for whatever reason. Holes that you'd be DQ in a formal competition if you didn't correct your error. But "most likely score" only applies if you pick up and quit the hole and go to the next tee. i.e. picking up an 8-inch putt and moving along. Or hit 2 OB or can't find your ball and tell your playing partners, "I'm done. I'm sitting the rest of the hole out."

 

Where "most likely score" does not apply, is when you have a lost ball, did not hit a provisional, and don't feel like going back to the tee. If you just say the heck with it and go to the next tee, you can post most likely score up to your ESC. BUT if you "drop where it went out" or "it's around here somewhere, I'll just drop", both illegal drops to keep play moving and not heading back to the previous spot, you have played the hole outside the Rules of Golf.

 

 

Thanks for explaining that to me. I want to make sure I understand that last part clearly now that i'm trying to get a legit handicap. Please tell me if i'm incorrectly interpreting what you said.

 

If i'm playing on a Saturday morning with some random people, I go to the tee box, hit a ball lost track of it, hit a provisional. Go to look for either ball, can't find them. I should choose to quit, and post my ESC score to still be within the rules of golf right?

 

If I drive, find my ball, but lose my ball on the second shot, I should choose to quit and post my ESC score to still be within the rules of golf right?

 

I think I understand that part. So when does dropping a ball anywhere back on the line of the ball that got lost come into play? or is that only when the ball enters a hazard and is deemed unplayable?

 

To be honest, that description you gave about keeping play moving and wanting to actually finish a hole, most often would just drop near the point of entry, take a penalty stroke, and then keep going on. I see now that is the incorrect way to play that.

[Sawgrass]

Outside of match play, you'd only take "most likely score" on holes that you picked up for whatever reason. Holes that you'd be DQ in a formal competition if you didn't correct your error. But "most likely score" only applies if you pick up and quit the hole and go to the next tee. i.e. picking up an 8-inch putt and moving along. Or hit 2 OB or can't find your ball and tell your playing partners, "I'm done. I'm sitting the rest of the hole out."

 

Where "most likely score" does not apply, is when you have a lost ball, did not hit a provisional, and don't feel like going back to the tee. If you just say the heck with it and go to the next tee, you can post most likely score up to your ESC. BUT if you "drop where it went out" or "it's around here somewhere, I'll just drop", both illegal drops to keep play moving and not heading back to the previous spot, you have played the hole outside the Rules of Golf.

 

 

Thanks for explaining that to me. I want to make sure I understand that last part clearly now that i'm trying to get a legit handicap. Please tell me if i'm incorrectly interpreting what you said.

 

If i'm playing on a Saturday morning with some random people, I go to the tee box, hit a ball lost track of it, hit a provisional. Go to look for either ball, can't find them. I should choose to quit, and post my ESC score to still be within the rules of golf right?

 

If I drive, find my ball, but lose my ball on the second shot, I should choose to quit and post my ESC score to still be within the rules of golf right?

 

I think I understand that part. So when does dropping a ball anywhere back on the line of the ball that got lost come into play? or is that only when the ball enters a hazard and is deemed unplayable?

 

To be honest, that description you gave about keeping play moving and wanting to actually finish a hole, most often would just drop near the point of entry, take a penalty stroke, and then keep going on. I see now that is the incorrect way to play that.

 

Let's say that on the tee you decide to play two balls on just one particular hole. The posting rules still want you to post your round, so they have you exclude that hole (at which you deliberately violated the Rules of Golf). As a "fix" they tell you to substitute a score of par plus any handicap strokes you'd get on that hole. I trust that easily makes sense to you.

 

Now let's assume that you deliberately decide to violate the Rules of Golf during the play of a hole (dropping in a random place for instance instead of going back for a lost ball). The same "par plus strokes" posting rule applies. It might seem peculiar that you end up scoring low on that hole for handicap purposes, but I think it makes sense in the big picture. In a way, you're punished (with a potentially lower handicap in the future) for having violated the Rules.

[illmatik53]

Outside of match play, you'd only take "most likely score" on holes that you picked up for whatever reason. Holes that you'd be DQ in a formal competition if you didn't correct your error. But "most likely score" only applies if you pick up and quit the hole and go to the next tee. i.e. picking up an 8-inch putt and moving along. Or hit 2 OB or can't find your ball and tell your playing partners, "I'm done. I'm sitting the rest of the hole out."

 

Where "most likely score" does not apply, is when you have a lost ball, did not hit a provisional, and don't feel like going back to the tee. If you just say the heck with it and go to the next tee, you can post most likely score up to your ESC. BUT if you "drop where it went out" or "it's around here somewhere, I'll just drop", both illegal drops to keep play moving and not heading back to the previous spot, you have played the hole outside the Rules of Golf.

 

 

Thanks for explaining that to me. I want to make sure I understand that last part clearly now that i'm trying to get a legit handicap. Please tell me if i'm incorrectly interpreting what you said.

 

If i'm playing on a Saturday morning with some random people, I go to the tee box, hit a ball lost track of it, hit a provisional. Go to look for either ball, can't find them. I should choose to quit, and post my ESC score to still be within the rules of golf right?

 

If I drive, find my ball, but lose my ball on the second shot, I should choose to quit and post my ESC score to still be within the rules of golf right?

 

I think I understand that part. So when does dropping a ball anywhere back on the line of the ball that got lost come into play? or is that only when the ball enters a hazard and is deemed unplayable?

 

To be honest, that description you gave about keeping play moving and wanting to actually finish a hole, most often would just drop near the point of entry, take a penalty stroke, and then keep going on. I see now that is the incorrect way to play that.

 

Let's say that on the tee you decide to play two balls on just one particular hole. The posting rules still want you to post your round, so they have you exclude that hole (at which you deliberately violated the Rules of Golf). As a "fix" they tell you to substitute a score of par plus any handicap strokes you'd get on that hole. I trust that easily makes sense to you.

 

Now let's assume that you deliberately decide to violate the Rules of Golf during the play of a hole (dropping in a random place for instance instead of going back for a lost ball). The same "par plus strokes" posting rule applies. It might seem peculiar that you end up scoring low on that hole for handicap purposes, but I think it makes sense in the big picture. In a way, you're punished (with a potentially lower handicap in the future) for having violated the Rules.

 

I see. I get what you are saying. So it's almost regardless if you're not playing a hole by USGA rules, you take (par plus handicap strokes) on that hole.

 

When does the rule come into play about dropping the ball on the same line before you lost the ball? Is that specifically only for an instance when the ball enters a hazard? Then you have the option to drop anywhere back along the line of the ball?

[Sawgrass]

When taking relief from a water hazard or from an unplayable lie, you may drop on an imaginary line drawn from the flagstick to the point where your ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or the unplayable location -- and then extending further back. You keep the water hazard or the unplayable between you and the hole on these occasions. This option does not apply to lost balls or balls that are out of bounds.

[illmatik53]

thanks!