The 2016-2017 NBA basketball thread

[porkpistol]

Just lol @ the fake 1 seed Celtics. What a joke. Getting pummeled at home by the Bulls.

[Loomis13]

While agree the Celtics arent a one seed. I also don't think the Bulls are an 8 seed plus look at what the Celtics are dealing with. The bulls have talent just can't seem to get it together. But right now they are playing very well

[MtlJeff]

Celtics can't generate offence beyond Thomas right now. A lot of rushed shots. They don't really have a ton of creators and that always gets exposed in the playoffs.

 

Not that Toronto is lighting it up (I think they are poorly coached) but they have more guys who can just get buckets

 

 

[porkpistol]

Celtics can't generate offence beyond Thomas right now. A lot of rushed shots. They don't really have a ton of creators and that always gets exposed in the playoffs.

 

Not that Toronto is lighting it up (I think they are poorly coached) but they have more guys who can just get buckets

 

This was the Celtics all year long. Their entire offense is IT. A combination of Rondo/Bulter are shutting that down.

[Peanut191]

Celtics can't generate offence beyond Thomas right now. A lot of rushed shots. They don't really have a ton of creators and that always gets exposed in the playoffs.

 

Not that Toronto is lighting it up (I think they are poorly coached) but they have more guys who can just get buckets

 

This was the Celtics all year long. Their entire offense is IT. A combination of Rondo/Bulter are shutting that down.

 

Well, they didn't exactly shut him down in game 1. 33 points on 10 of 18 shooting.

[MtlJeff]

I'd like to see the Raptors go big against the Bucks. I feel like they don't realize how versatile and talented they are, and they are just rehashing the same old offense they have the past couple of years. It works fairly well because they are good after all....but they really should be beating the Bucks in 5 games. Even yesterday they choked their butts off and were bailed out by a super high degree of difficulty shot by Lowry

 

There's no one on the Bucks that can cover Valenciunas. The JV/Ibaka frontcourt works because Ibaka can hedge out on guys too. And they are big burly gents who can rebound. They talked about JV on the Lowe podcast prior to the series too. You should be getting JV 20 shots a game in this series, just dump it into him. He's a legit post player and the Bucks are going small. Give it to him and have Ibaka crash the boards for putbacks. Make them adjust to you, not vice versa

 

I feel like the Raps will win in 7 with their usual brand of "we're the better team but we're gonna brick our way to the ugliest wins ever"....They should be pounding these fools with JV/Ibaka/Tucker for 35 minutes

[porkpistol]

Celtics can't generate offence beyond Thomas right now. A lot of rushed shots. They don't really have a ton of creators and that always gets exposed in the playoffs.

 

Not that Toronto is lighting it up (I think they are poorly coached) but they have more guys who can just get buckets

 

This was the Celtics all year long. Their entire offense is IT. A combination of Rondo/Bulter are shutting that down.

 

Well, they didn't exactly shut him down in game 1. 33 points on 10 of 18 shooting.

 

The 2nd game they did. Can't win with just IT playing hero ball.

[Peanut191]

Celtics can't generate offence beyond Thomas right now. A lot of rushed shots. They don't really have a ton of creators and that always gets exposed in the playoffs.

 

Not that Toronto is lighting it up (I think they are poorly coached) but they have more guys who can just get buckets

 

This was the Celtics all year long. Their entire offense is IT. A combination of Rondo/Bulter are shutting that down.

 

Well, they didn't exactly shut him down in game 1. 33 points on 10 of 18 shooting.

 

The 2nd game they did. Can't win with just IT playing hero ball.

 

Oh, I agree with that. If they are going to have any chance in the series, he'll have to put the team on his back offensively(and shoot over 50% in those games with more assists). It's just a tough matchup for him in this series and they will not be able to win with him just playing hero ball. (I mean, they couldn't even pull out the first game with him going 10-18 for 33, at home no less)

 

Speaking of hero ball, did you guys see how many shots Westbrook took last night?

[porkpistol]

Celtics can't generate offence beyond Thomas right now. A lot of rushed shots. They don't really have a ton of creators and that always gets exposed in the playoffs.

 

Not that Toronto is lighting it up (I think they are poorly coached) but they have more guys who can just get buckets

 

This was the Celtics all year long. Their entire offense is IT. A combination of Rondo/Bulter are shutting that down.

 

Well, they didn't exactly shut him down in game 1. 33 points on 10 of 18 shooting.

 

The 2nd game they did. Can't win with just IT playing hero ball.

 

Oh, I agree with that. If they are going to have any chance in the series, he'll have to put the team on his back offensively(and shoot over 50% in those games with more assists). It's just a tough matchup for him in this series and they will not be able to win with him just playing hero ball. (I mean, they couldn't even pull out the first game with him going 10-18 for 33, at home no less)

 

Speaking of hero ball, did you guys see how many shots Westbrook took last night?

 

lol yes, ridiculous.

Reggie Miller complaining he has no help. Well when you go 3-17 in the 4th quarter you aren't looking to your teammates too much as it is.

[MtlJeff]

The Thunder played defensive lineups in the 4th, they didn't play Kanter or abrines. Oladipo shot 4/14 and 1/7 from 3. The other players on the floor were not really offensive creators and we're playing for defence.

 

The group was out there for Russell to play hero ball by design. He didn't shoot it well in the 4th yesterday and maybe they need to bit the bullet and play Kanter, who harden torches on screens

 

Should be noted that in 41 minutes Westbrook was +11 and they went -15 in the 7 minutes he sat

 

The most significant moment was when he went to the bench with 2 minutes left in the 3rd for rest and they blew a 13-14pt lead before the quarters end

 

Obviously he could've passed more in the 4th. But the plan was for a Russ heavy offense given the personel and oladipo struggling

[Peanut191]

The Thunder played defensive lineups in the 4th, they didn't play Kanter or abrines. Oladipo shot 4/14 and 1/7 from 3. The other players on the floor were not really offensive creators and we're playing for defence.

 

The group was out there for Russell to play hero ball by design. He didn't shoot it well in the 4th yesterday and maybe they need to bit the bullet and play Kanter, who harden torches on screens

 

Should be noted that in 41 minutes Westbrook was +11 and they went -15 in the 7 minutes he sat

 

The most significant moment was when he went to the bench with 2 minutes left in the 3rd for rest and they blew a 13-14pt lead before the quarters end

 

Obviously he could've passed more in the 4th. But the plan was for a Russ heavy offense given the personel and oladipo struggling

 

You would think that they could at least get Adams(who is turning into a pretty damn good player) and Gibson some more touches. Not blaming Russell for the +/- with him on/off the court, but they should have done better or had some other game plan when Russell wasn't hitting shots in the 4th quarter.

[MtlJeff]

Adams strength is on screen and role, issue is the reason it works so well for Harden /Capella is because they can space the floor with shooters and create a lane. With the lineup OKC had on and Oladipo shooting poorly too, Houston can cram the lane with dudes. That's why Roberson gets these looks where he has 15 seconds to shoot LOL

 

It's tough, Adams should be utilized more I agree, but they have to get creative in getting him touches. Last year they did that by having him baseline cut using Durant on the wing as a decoy for example. These things don't work when no one respects your shooting

 

I think OKC needs more help. Russ could pass more and make critics go easier on him, but I'm not sure the results would be different

 

They need Blake Griffin!

[porkpistol]

Adams strength is on screen and role, issue is the reason it works so well for Harden /Capella is because they can space the floor with shooters and create a lane. With the lineup OKC had on and Oladipo shooting poorly too, Houston can cram the lane with dudes. That's why Roberson gets these looks where he has 15 seconds to shoot LOL

 

It's tough, Adams should be utilized more I agree, but they have to get creative in getting him touches. Last year they did that by having him baseline cut using Durant on the wing as a decoy for example. These things don't work when no one respects your shooting

 

I think OKC needs more help. Russ could pass more and make critics go easier on him, but I'm not sure the results would be different

 

They need Blake Griffin!

 

lol someone always needs more help

[MtlJeff]

I should specify offensive help LOL.

 

Big Raptors game tonight!

[F171615]

Adams strength is on screen and role, issue is the reason it works so well for Harden /Capella is because they can space the floor with shooters and create a lane. With the lineup OKC had on and Oladipo shooting poorly too, Houston can cram the lane with dudes. That's why Roberson gets these looks where he has 15 seconds to shoot LOL

 

It's tough, Adams should be utilized more I agree, but they have to get creative in getting him touches. Last year they did that by having him baseline cut using Durant on the wing as a decoy for example. These things don't work when no one respects your shooting

 

I think OKC needs more help. Russ could pass more and make critics go easier on him, but I'm not sure the results would be different

 

They need Blake Griffin!

 

lol someone always needs more help

 

They will never get as much help as they lost with Durant. What OKC needs to do is change how they play.

[MtlJeff]

They need the right players to do that. No amount of trusting teammates or pace and space is going to make André Roberson a shooter or Taj Gibson a stretch 4.

 

I agree though that they absolutely cannot go into next year with this same formula because it does not work against good teams.

 

To your prior points though, I wonder if they could sign a patty mills type, who can shoot, and play Westbrook off the ball more, combined with Sabonis becoming more useful, if that would help

[Peanut191]

I thought Sabonis had a skill set that would translate fairly well to the next level, but it doesn't seem to be taking hold. I know the game is faster and more physical, but I would have thought he would have adjusted better. Not that he's completely useless right now, but I thought we'd see more out of him(yeah, I know he's a rookie and he needs time to develop, just thought he would be a little more useful).

 

Jeff, you're right on no amount of pace and space helping Roberson or Gibson becoming a stretch 4. With their offensive formula not working very well against good teams this year, I'm surprised they didn't try to go with a kill the pace type of game(somewhat like the Cavs have done in the last 2 finals with GS) against these teams, or at least try it. Maybe, by mucking it up a little, it would get the other teams out of rhythm and not really effect the Thunder as much, since it's basically the Westbrook show on offense.

[MtlJeff]

I just want to say i don't think Russ is the best player in the league or anything. I defend him a lot because i'm a fan....but i think KD, Curry, Kawhi, Lebron....they are better players than him. I just don't like the narrative that he's selfish and submarining the team by shooting a lot, there just aren't many offensive options there.

 

Harden and Westbrook i see as even, in a tie for 5th best player in the league IMO. Harden has a team where they can spread the floor with shooters, Westbrook has a team that is built on defense and rebounding. So Harden gets to dish to shooters and look like an unselfish star, whereas Westbrook has to carry more offensive burden and looks like a ball hog- which he is- but by design.

 

Eric Gordon can't defend like Roberson. And Roberson will never shoot like Eric Gordon. Ditto Ryan Anderson vs Taj Gibson. But overall i think the Rockets are a better 2-way team independent of their stars (i think if you flip Westbrook and Harden the teams would have finished the same) and will win the series. Remember last year Harden was called selfish when he was running with Howard and Co.

 

Anyway. I hope the Thunder can find some better balance. It's what's best for Westbrook and them

 

And with that said....they'll be eliminated soon and we can watch teams that play much more attractive basketball

[MtlJeff]

Typical Raptors early on....brick after brick from the perimeter. Then going small to match up with the Bucks and taking JV out. Did Valenciunas have 4 of their first 8 points? Of course. He bullied Maker and missed a gimme, than dunked on him, than drew a foul and made the FT's....than bobbled a pass, so they took him out.

 

And why not? Because watching the perimeter guys build a house with bricks is a way better plan of course.

 

NO ONE ON THE BUCKS CAN STOP VALENCIUNAS

 

They are down 24-10 right now. He's 1/2 with 2 FT's....rest of team 2/13

[porkpistol]

Typical Raptors early on....brick after brick from the perimeter. Then going small to match up with the Bucks and taking JV out. Did Valenciunas have 4 of their first 8 points? Of course. He bullied Maker and missed a gimme, than dunked on him, than drew a foul and made the FT's....than bobbled a pass, so they took him out.

 

And why not? Because watching the perimeter guys build a house with bricks is a way better plan of course.

 

NO ONE ON THE BUCKS CAN STOP VALENCIUNAS

 

They are down 24-10 right now. He's 1/2 with 2 FT's....rest of team 2/13

 

And he ends 3/9 for 11 points, but nobody can stop him lol.

 

33%FG for the entire team, horrid.

[MtlJeff]

Sarcasm aside, the Raptors got killed yesterday for sure. But their not using Valenciunas to exploit smaller players dates back to last season as well, when they would not get him the ball against the smaller pacers despite having success.

 

Maker can not cover JV, he is giving up too much size. They gave Valenciunas the ball 3 times early on and he drew a foul, dunked on him, and missed a bunny. Then they took him off for a while and when he came back in they were down 25pts. Some of the misses yesterday were poor shots late in the clock

 

It wouldnt have mattered yesterday, but I wish the Raptors would use him more against mismatches, because he is a genuine post threat who doesn't kill you defensively. But they, game after game, choose to brick away from the perimeter

[MtlJeff]

If they lose this series though I would imagine Lowry is not resigned, and Delon Wright becomes the new point guard... And they change their approach

[porkpistol]

Rondo out indefinitely with a fractured thumb. That is going to hurt the Bulls bad the rest of this series. PG behind him are utter garbage. Defensively MCW is good but can't shoot, handle the ball, or facilitate an offense. Grant will be starting and is pretty much just as bad as MCW unless he can get a 3-ball going.

[MtlJeff]

Interesting that both Zach Lowe and Kevin Arnovitz said today they cast their official MVP vote for Kawhi Leonard

 

I'm interested in seeing how well he does. I really don't think he will win it, i would love to see a guy like him win it, but i doubt. Just interesting that two really knowledgeable guys picked him. Both those guys if you ever listen to their podcasts together, really know their stuff

 

Here's the most recent one if anyone is interested

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=19202947

[MtlJeff]

Valenciunas zero shots in the first quarter, came off the bench, covered by Greg Monroe.....zero shots

 

Raptors shoot 40% in first and score 19 points

 

Keep doing what you're doing Toronto!

[MtlJeff]

Westbrook, lou Williams and Harden blatantly chasing foul calls on three pointers late in this game and getting them.

 

Honestly my least favourite play in basketball now. It's just so unnatural. Harden in particular just holds the ball in his right hand, sticks his left arm under the defenders left arm and than jumps up and acts like he got tangled up. It's such a nonsense play

 

Westbrook and Williams went the more traditional way of just jumping into guys.

 

I wish refs would stop calling this and let these guys just embarrass themselves with airballs. That would stop it quick

[devinh821]

Couldn't agree more Jeff! It's unbelievable on how many times someone is just holding their hand out in the area and they rip it thru acting like they are taking a shot and 3 free throws. Dang crap drives me crazy!

 

I would really love harden if it wasn't for that. But I just can't get on the Westbrook wagon. Just too selfish. It's the NBA everyone is pretty dang good

[MtlJeff]

The end of the game was just brutal, OKC's offense the last 2 minutes was Russell iso's that resulted in him trying to draw fouls on 3's. They set one screen with Roberson that led to a layup. But they only did it once and the rest with iso-ball.

 

I thought Donovan's strategy at the end was suspect. Other Thunder players were shooting well and they went away from it, it wasn't all Westbrook checking off guys, they clearly weren't running anything. No Adams screens, they had Oladipo standing in the corner.

 

Plus he stayed with Roberson too long when Houston started fouling him. I know he does a great job on Harden but you could've slid Oladipo onto him and hoped for the best. They lost 4-5 possessions when the game was close

[xxio]

It's just an extension/variation of the Durant "raking" move.

 

The league is really offense biased.

 

Hard to find the balance.

 

[MtlJeff]

Raptors/Bucks needs to be watched at really low volume, otherwise the sound of balls hitting the rim really hard can be distracting