Did David Duval just use Montes no turn cast concepts ??

[NCHACK85]

And then there was Mike Austin

 

Well he said things that wasn't accurate also, 90% of what he talked about isnt really right.

 

 

 

+1

 

Key question is more why wouldn't you release ASAP?!!! Unless you like spinning out and hitting off the back foot...

 

Get your lag from speeding the other elements up, not 'holding' anything.

 

Why would you want to impede energy and speed going into the clubhead?

 

People understand concepts wrong most of the time anyhow, that is why.

 

I think you are quite correct Golfbeat.

i like this thread because it begs (answers?) the most fundamental question in the golf swing.

How do you move the club head?

For example going back to Sam Snead,

its very instructive to just look at his release and simply ask, How does he do that?

And all this talk and people struggling to "get the club in front of you" is easily solved surely if they go back to Abe Mitchell and Harry Vardon, a self-taught mate does that and hits the ball VERY far (he is quite tall). lots and lots of right arm folding means lots and lots of release speed. But of course if you do that you will be sent to the naughty corner.

 

 

Not sure why you post a Over the top swing like Sam Snead had?

 

Anyhow none here on this forum can explain the concept "get the club in front of you". while they may know what its about, explaining so it make sense and what to do, wont work. Obviously.

The same is true with Mike Austins students and trainers as I shown them I can teach a real Mike Austin mechanic and they can not.

 

Someone stepped in the Bull ****.

[wmblake2000]

 

He explains it well.

 

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Thanks for posting this. It really cleared some things for me and made immediate positive impact.

[3eagles18]

Throw Throw Throw and then he swings. I see the drill but don't see the throw in the swing. Slo-mo would be great.

[Jasonic]

Throw Throw Throw and then he swings. I see the drill but don't see the throw in the swing. Slo-mo would be great.

 

Feel ain't real

[Pinsplitter59]

After practice the last 2 days i now disagree with myself.

[baudi]

Probably off topic but an important side step at least for me..

What Mr Zander/Duval show is quite different from Mike Malaska. Al be it that the chased goal may be the same: Get the club out in time.

Hardy/Zander/Duval explain the motion by a throwing action of the right hand.

Mike Malaska explains his idea by rotating the left arm in the downswing which acts as counterforce to tumble the clubhead outward over the hands.

Although Mr Malaska is very open about this idea which he learned to understand from a less known teaching pro he visited after his playing career. (Forgot his name).

 

There is a nice video in which Monte explains the contrary forces in the swing.

If I recall it simplistic it deals with the direction of the left arm and the direction of the right arm in te down swing.

My interpretation sort of stops here. What I would like to know: Do these moves of opposite direction reflect the above stated concepts of

- A right arm throwing motion (HARDY c.s.)

- A left arm rotating motion (Malaska)

 

Perhaps Monte can chime in and illuminate and explain whether or not these concepts can be blended. in one swing.

[Pinsplitter59]

Now i reckon getting the club way behind you is the way to go.

Malaska's thing is ridiculous.

Rory knows how to do it. Its all about the right hand, one of the oldest swing tips in golf.

 

[3eagles18]

Tried Zander/Duval today. Everything was left of left. Can't figure out how to square the face. Obviously not doing it correctly.

[LONG&STR8]

Tried Zander/Duval today. Everything was left of left. Can't figure out how to square the face. Obviously not doing it correctly.

 

I think most of us take the advice/instruction and do more of the moves than needed. Malaska talks more about the path of the hands in the DS which is more straight down than towards the ball like in the pull the handle swing. You also want to have your BS be more flat as has been mentioned which for me is "deeper" hands. Once you "tumble the club" you continue the turn and keep the club head going left after impact so you don't flip as the club head has already been squared up as opposed to the other swing where you are still trying to square it through impact. Hope this helps and isn't too confusing as I'm definitely not an instructor.

[bigseanc12]

Tried Zander/Duval today. Everything was left of left. Can't figure out how to square the face. Obviously not doing it correctly.

He addressed this in a Q/A. I also had this issue. If you start with your L shoulder you will snap hook out of control. I had best results when I felt like I kept my back facing to the target as my hands were hitting the ball.

[jgonz69]

Now i reckon getting the club way behind you is the way to go.

Malaska's thing is ridiculous.

Rory knows how to do it. Its all about the right hand, one of the oldest swing tips in golf.

 

troll

[Hstead]

Tried Zander/Duval today. Everything was left of left. Can't figure out how to square the face. Obviously not doing it correctly.

 

There are a lot of pieces that have to match, more than just the right hand throw Duval was demonstrating. I have read the Hardy book and if you have what he terms a LOP release and try to simply add this flexion move of the right hand, it is going to be worse than bad. The face is going to be closing crazy fast if you try to combine this with parts that do not fit.

 

I learned quite a bit from the book. Hardy explained some things that others have wanted me to try to do but in a much different way. Made me understand better what some of the guys I have worked with were trying to get me working towards. I am very glad I read it.

[ago33]

Hey monte-

 

I think your YouTube channel is great. One of the best golf YouTube channels out there. Keep up the good work.

[Golfbeat]

Tried Zander/Duval today. Everything was left of left. Can't figure out how to square the face. Obviously not doing it correctly.

 

Once in a while, I have this as well. Either I throw it too late (body already started to move) or the forearms rotate. Forearms really should not rotate until well into the finish.

[MK7Golf21]

Tried Zander/Duval today. Everything was left of left. Can't figure out how to square the face. Obviously not doing it correctly.

 

Once in a while, I have this as well. Either I throw it too late (body already started to move) or the forearms rotate. Forearms really should not rotate until well into the finish.

 

I had a level 3 hardy guy try to teach me it a long time ago, o connell actually worked under this guy. Some of the first in person lessons I had. I too was hitting left of left when first trying it out. The hardy guys are big on swinging left which was good for me at the time, I had a push for a miss following SnT and every lesson it seemed he was trying to steepin my swing

[MK7Golf21]

btw- way he fixed it for me was a few drills to limit the forearm rotation which I had. Dont really follow these release methods anymore but they are interesting

[arjanpetersen80]

Now i reckon getting the club way behind you is the way to go.

Malaska's thing is ridiculous.

Rory knows how to do it. Its all about the right hand, one of the oldest swing tips in golf.

 

 

Are you a troll?

[arjanpetersen80]

Tried Zander/Duval today. Everything was left of left. Can't figure out how to square the face. Obviously not doing it correctly.

 

That is normal. And also something which Mike addresses in some of his movies, and he said that you should be happy when you start hooking it. It is because you learned to close the face way too early.

[Millbrook]

Probably off topic but an important side step at least for me..

What Mr Zander/Duval show is quite different from Mike Malaska. Al be it that the chased goal may be the same: Get the club out in time.

Hardy/Zander/Duval explain the motion by a throwing action of the right hand.

Mike Malaska explains his idea by rotating the left arm in the downswing which acts as counterforce to tumble the clubhead outward over the hands.

Although Mr Malaska is very open about this idea which he learned to understand from a less known teaching pro he visited after his playing career. (Forgot his name).

 

There is a nice video in which Monte explains the contrary forces in the swing.

If I recall it simplistic it deals with the direction of the left arm and the direction of the right arm in te down swing.

My interpretation sort of stops here. What I would like to know: Do these moves of opposite direction reflect the above stated concepts of

- A right arm throwing motion (HARDY c.s.)

- A left arm rotating motion (Malaska)

 

Perhaps Monte can chime in and illuminate and explain whether or not these concepts can be blended. in one swing.

 

In Hardys RIT the right hand throws but the left hand comes in. If the left hand didn't then H says you would miss the ball. So the inward movement of the left hand is part of Hardy ethos for the RIT. It is inward rather than over rotating though.

[JustTheTips]

These guys are on these forums, if that's not already crystal clear at this point. I've seen a few of Monte's ideas in particular completely copied with no recognition of where they got it from.

 

I am pretty sure all of Monte's ideas predate him by 20+ years:) What Monte does explain them a terms that are pretty understandable.

 

The problem with random golf instruction is that we all have different problems. Half the world is on top of plane, the other half is under. Half the world has too much body action, the other doesn't have enough. Fixing a problem you don't have isn't the road to good golf.

[Pinsplitter59]

I'm not really a troll, like any seeker of truth my ideas change daily as does my golf swing.

This throwing thing really goes back to Ben Hogan with his static demonstrations of the positions.

What I personally find with a throwing motion is that its weak and slappy and very off-plane for me.

There is only one way it works for me, and when it works it makes hitting the ball ridiculously simple.

That key for me is how the arms are set at finish of backswing, and how to get that set has been something i can't find very often,

but when its there its just there, you feel it and feel so ready to hit the ball with your right forearm/hand.

So, i am just saying that don't forget that to do a throw motion you need to be in backswing position that allows you to do it.

I find that how you move the club away is vitally important to how your arms set.

[jgonz69]

For you what works doesnt work for others. You came into this thread as an antagonist and dropped a bomb, and didnt post for days. That makes you a troll.

Now youre trying to sound reasonable, it rings hollow.

[Pinsplitter59]

ouch!!

[Miuralovechild]

I wish he would retire from golf and broadcasting.

[scopek]

I'm not really a troll, like any seeker of truth my ideas change daily as does my golf swing.

This throwing thing really goes back to Ben Hogan with his static demonstrations of the positions.

What I personally find with a throwing motion is that its weak and slappy and very off-plane for me.

There is only one way it works for me, and when it works it makes hitting the ball ridiculously simple.

That key for me is how the arms are set at finish of backswing, and how to get that set has been something i can't find very often,

but when its there its just there, you feel it and feel so ready to hit the ball with your right forearm/hand.

So, i am just saying that don't forget that to do a throw motion you need to be in backswing position that allows you to do it.

I find that how you move the club away is vitally important to how your arms set.

 

I'm actually finding something similar with this type of release. When I "find it", it is effortless and works great. But it's been tough for me to be consistent.

[Hilts1969]

The Duval video.

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/gca-david-duval-driver-downswing-tips/

 

Are we just talking of feeling like you release your angles earlier here? At the moment I keep my left heel raised as long as possible and straighten my right arm down(feel)as quickly as possible. It's been working very well with the irons through to the 3 wood. I do have a bit of work to do with the driver to develop a constant fade. At the range tomorrow so will give it a whirl to see how it affects the flight.

 

So I tried this move with the driver, did the pre shot drill which is the same as a mark crossfield video I saw. I had to feel that I started flipping straight away before my body moved. The clubhead in the practice swing actually got in front of my arms and body. Anyhow my driver open face problems dissapeared on the first go which amazed me and contact was great as was the ball flight. However boy did I lose distance. It probably went as far as my hybrid about 210 if that.

 

It feels like the only speed I'm getting is from the flipping. If I try to put any conscious arm or body movement in I drag the handle again.

 

Any ideas?

[Golfbeat]

The Duval video.

 

http://www.golfchann...downswing-tips/

 

Are we just talking of feeling like you release your angles earlier here? At the moment I keep my left heel raised as long as possible and straighten my right arm down(feel)as quickly as possible. It's been working very well with the irons through to the 3 wood. I do have a bit of work to do with the driver to develop a constant fade. At the range tomorrow so will give it a whirl to see how it affects the flight.

 

So I tried this move with the driver, did the pre shot drill which is the same as a mark crossfield video I saw. I had to feel that I started flipping straight away before my body moved. The clubhead in the practice swing actually got in front of my arms and body. Anyhow my driver open face problems dissapeared on the first go which amazed me and contact was great as was the ball flight. However boy did I lose distance. It probably went as far as my hybrid about 210 if that.

 

It feels like the only speed I'm getting is from the flipping. If I try to put any conscious arm or body movement in I drag the handle again.

 

Any ideas?

 

You are probably too careful. Swing harder. 85% of the speed comes from the arms.

[Hilts1969]

Your probably right just can't seem to do it unless I isolate the flip motion. It feels really weird to see the club head during the swing. You were right about it not leading to hooks I was wrong about that

[SunkTheBirdie]

He explains it well.

Wow.

super great video. Thanks.

 

For me, this throwing motion just happens without conscious thought and it comes from my left leg straightening in the DS and my left hip going backwards. I think a throw feeling would overcook it and I'd be going left of left.

[SunkTheBirdie]

The Truth About Lag

 

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Uploaded on Dec 6, 2007

 

Everything is a remix.