Need some help scouting Wekopa Saguaro please

[Moe Norman Jr]

Hello Phoenix area golfers,

 

I play in a Ryder Cup style tourney every May with 15 of my friends (that is to say, 7 of them are my friends that weekend, 8 are temporary enemies). We have been doing it for 8 years and what started as very fun oriented, has grown into a very competitive weekend. So I am on here asking for some help from all of you.

 

This year we are playing the Saguaro course at We-ko-pa, just outside Phoenix. If anyone has any insights on the course, or any pics that would help my squad get more familiar with the course, we would all greatly appreciate it. And you could receive satisfaction, knowing that you helped the winning team.

 

The only specific questions I have at this time are: will the rough be dormant or awake and growing at the end of May (17-21)? Also, does the ball travel farther than normal (close to sea level) in Phoenix? Any other local and/or course specific knowledge would be amazing. Thank you very much.

[fore_life]

https://wekopa.com/golf/saguaro-course-layout/

 

https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/wekopagcsaguaro/maerial.htm

 

 

As far as distance, yes further than sea level, but not Denver or ABQ type insanity

[Moe Norman Jr]

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it. I have been using that layout on their website, as well as google earth to map it out. I've got the numbers. I guess what I'm looking for is to get a feel for the course. Are there a lot of swales and hollows on and around the greens? Is it dead flat or are there some elevation changes? Is it generally windy? Does anyone have any on course pictures? Does everything break towards Phoenix? That kind of thing. I've got the science of the course, I'm looking to add in the art, if that makes sense. I think some local knowledge could give my team a little leg up.

 

Update: just found a link to a photo tour of the course in another thread. Thank you @sabram!

[dlygrisse]

It’s a fun course just enjoy it! Fairways are wide but don’t miss them.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

May is one of the windier months here, the course is fairly exposed so wind can play a significant factor and IMO is the real defense of the course. Saguaro on a windy day is a different beast than when it is calm.

 

Hole by hole notes including prevailing wind directions

 

1 Left center of fairway, play to left or left center of green significant false front, almost better to miss just short than hit the green long if the pin is up front. Downwind

 

2: risk reward, not much payoff for taking the big risk of driving the green. Layup to a good wedge yardage. Green slopes back to front with a significant ridge on the left side center to left front that is very usefull in spinning the ball near a front right pin or even center right. Wind coming off the right

 

3 Cape hole, play as close to the left as you like for the more aggressive line off the tee to leave the shortest yardage in. Plays about half a club uphill green slopes back to front staying below the hole is good here. Into the wind tee shot approach wind off the left

 

4: Long par 5. If you have the carry distance take it over the center bunker otherwise left has a bit more room but right has better angle down the hill. Layup do your best to get it on top of the ridge at the bottom of the hill to have a good look. play 1/2 club less into the green DO NOT GO LONG on the approach. Downwind

 

5: Mid Iron par 3: Most severe green on the course all depends on tee shot. Green slopes back to front and severely from right to left. If pin back left play to center of green and aim at right center of green otherwise your ball will miss left. Do not go long. Significant false front. Back right pin missing green a touch right is better than hitting center green due to the slope. Wind into

 

6: Play to right center of fairway if fairways are rolling out often times anything left of center will roll out into fairway bunkers especially for draw players. Another false front green otherwise fairly level with slight back to front tilt. Wind into

 

7: Another short par 4 not a ton of reward for going for it. Usually 220-230 sets up a knockdown wedge into the green play to right side of fairway 1 often cart path only and 2 better angle down center of the green. Green flat in the first 1/4 then slopes front to back on back 2/3 if pin is in the back play for a little release even with a wedge. Wind into

 

8: Par 5 A good drive down the right sets up a chance to get home in two. 2nd plays significantly up hill. Better to miss the green short right than left or long right. 3 tiered green depending on where pin is slopes can be used to get ball closer to hole. Good distance control needed to get ball on proper tier to set up birdie putt vs defending for par. Wind into

 

9: Short par 3 green slopes back to front severely in the front 1/3 of the green. Front pin play short of pin. otherwise really really hard two putt awaits. Wind off left

 

10: Short par 4. IMO the best of the shorties. I almost always pull driver here. Big hitters may go less than drive and still reach especially if wind is up. My play is cut off the left greenside bunker if pin on left or cut off left side of center greenside bunker (devils toilet) if pin right two tiered green another where long is death. Downwind

 

11: Semi Long par 3 big green sloping left to right. Usually plays 1/2-1 club less before factoring in the wind speed. Balls landing on the green will work from left to right no need to take on the bunkers on the right. Downwind

 

12: first of the long par 4's This one plays every bit of its yardage if not more. Any long tee ball in the fairway is good, although left side gives better angle. Green is 55 yards deep so 2nd shot club selection is critical. Green slopes back to front with a few different swales. Wind left

 

13: Although same yardage as 12 hole is completely different Bite off as much as you can down the left side to shorten hole and give good angle, but be careful of the hidden left fairway bunker blind off the tee.

Green slopes from front to back the last 2/3rds irons are tough to hold on this green making back right pins very difficult even with short irons. I will actually purposely try to miss the green pin high right on back right pins very easy up and down instead of the ball bounding aways off the green if try to attack pin. Hole 12 usually have long iron to fairway wood for approach, but on this mid iron to wedge with a decent drive. Downwind.

 

14: Split fairway up hill par 5. Right fairway narrower but gives big hitter better route to get home it two. Left tons of room layup is harder than the tee shot. Green 3 tiers another significant false front. Distance control again critical to avoid having to defend putt for par. Wind off left

 

15: Long par 3 another massive green 55+ yards deep. Significantly downhill. Green slopes right to left speed slot starting middle right will feed balls to the back left pin position which IMO is the easiest pin even if it clocks in at 270+ The area just short of the green is often not as firm as you would think therefore balls hit short do not always chase on to the green. If green is missed to the right really pay attention to the slopes as it is very easy to hit what you think is a good pitch only to see the bull run out 10-15 yards more than you thought. Wind quartering off right and slightly into

 

16: Bogeys hole (RIP little buddy) Up hill par 4. Really big hitters can give this a go but an easy up and down is not likely. Aim left of center to avoid the nasty bunkers and desert on the right. Almost cant aim far enough left here. I usually hit 3 wood into the slope of the hill and wedge in. The approach does not play as much up hill as it seems. Green slopes from back to front and narrows at the front. Wave to my old dog bogey whose ashes are up on the hill above the green and 17 tee. Wind into and slightly off left Dont forget to look back down the hill as this is probably the best view point on property.

 

17: Mid length par 4 a good drive down the right center sets up the best angle Bigger hitter may need 3 wood here to avoid leaving themselves a partial wedge off a downslope. Green tilts pretty hard right to left with a bit of a false front. If you aim down the left of the tee you can use that right to left slope as a bit of a back stop or way to get the ball closer to the hole. Wind into and off right. Mostly off right with a bit of hurt

 

18 Long par 4. Into the wind. MUST be able to carry the massive ridge to have a look at the green. Left side is most aggressive but make darn sure you have enough firepower to carry the bunkers left otherwise just put an 8 on the card and crack a beer. The long 2nd favors a cut into the green as the green complex slopes right to left and the green back to front. Wind into and slightly off right

 

Green reading, the breaks are often very subtle and hard to pick up but even though the do not look severe often they can be. When I was first learning the greens looking at the hole from both sides was a big help which is something I usually do not do. Typically speeds that time of year will be 9.5-11 depending on weather etc. Don't but into any the ball breaks towards the valley "theory" out here trust your eyes and reads. follow the natural terrain angles.

 

One other thing, do not trust the distance you are hitting the range balls warming up. You will be hitting it much further on course. I dont know why but this seems to be a bigger issue here for me than at most other courses.

[vallygolf]

Tip of the cap OPB, you are a helpful gent.

[azgolfer44]

OPB knows the course better than nearly anyone. Fantastic review! My only comments are to go left on 14 and know where the Verde River is on your putts. I’ve found that putts tend to break toward the river, especially on the east side of the course.

[Moe Norman Jr]

Thank you so much OPB!! This is above and beyond what I was hoping for. This will really help my team. It is greatly appreciated.

 

Now, is there any way to block this thread from 8 specific guys?? I don't need my opponents getting their hands on this gold.

[teejaywhy]

ALL putts break 4" straight down at the end.