Maltby TS2

[Cwebb]

59 minutes ago, Fellaheen51 said:

Interesting with Popeye's comment on the lineage of the TS3's to the TE's.  And the subsequent mention of the mass down low (VCOG) of the TS3's.  When I tested a demo TE 7 iron for a full season a few years back, the trajectory was way to high.  As in moonshots.  And despite trying three different shafts, couldn't tame it.  Lost a full club compared with the irons that were going to be replaced (only 1* loft difference).   Unacceptable for me to go backwards in distance realized.  

 

Have been following along here, considering a possible replacement for the TS1's.  They've been very good irons.  But at a point where utilizing irons that are less demanding would be beneficial.  Plus, it's time to switch to LW graphite shafts (age and SS).  But that VCOG of the 3's makes me nervous.  I recalled the TE's when I first read the number.  While a single data point doesn't tell the whole story, it remains a pause for concern.  Perhaps mitigated in some measure by the stronger lofts.   A demo club would certainly have to be evaluated before proceeding with an entire set.  

 

FWIW.  The Max could be a suitable candidate.  But do to fitting factors, play irons +1" (36.5" PW) and 3* up at the added length.  Not sure the Max can be bent that much.  And by some reports, a PITA to do so.  

 

So continue to read the tea leaves here attempting to figure out a path forward.  

 

Don't forget about the KE4 "Tour", which has an AVCOG of .785" vs the .693 and .675" of the TS3 and TE.  Seems to be an overlooked design in the Maltby lineup, but it's a very good one.   Easy to hit overall and extremely forgiving towards the toe...

https://www.golfworks.com/maltby-ke4-tour-iron-heads/p/ma0261/

[ode]

23 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

Don't forget about the KE4 "Tour", which has an AVCOG of .785" vs the .693 and .675" of the TS3 and TE.  Seems to be an overlooked design in the Maltby lineup, but it's a very good one.   Easy to hit overall and extremely forgiving towards the toe...

https://www.golfworks.com/maltby-ke4-tour-iron-heads/p/ma0261/

The main drawback of the TE and KE4 Tour+ is the lack of sole grind.  Fairly flat sole and sharp leading edge, at least on the TE.....been a while since I played the Tour (it was the black version when I had it in the the bag), but don't remember there being much relief.  Fine for a picker, but dicey the steeper the swinger!

[Cwebb]

24 minutes ago, ode said:

The main drawback of the TE and KE4 Tour+ is the lack of sole grind.  Fairly flat sole and sharp leading edge, at least on the TE.....been a while since I played the Tour (it was the black version when I had it in the the bag), but don't remember there being much relief.  Fine for a picker, but dicey the steeper the swinger!

 

Options are good for different players that play in various conditions

[jfrank]

On 2/18/2023 at 7:25 PM, Therty said:

Ts-3, X100. This is going to be hard to beat.

 

popeye not kidding about the feel.

Nice shot, strange that it spun back after that distance - is that a 7iron?  Are you seeing consistent launch with the TS3?  I know you're playing a lower launch shaft, but I was curious about the low COG with a higher swing speed.  

[iamlowsound]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:57 PM, moorebaseball said:

I have never played a component set of clubs. If one was looking to enter the game which irons would you steer me towards? I’m currently playing Srixon ZX7s with Nippon 120x.

I play the TS1 irons and love them. I haven't tried the ZX7 but I did a direct side by side comparison last week with the ZX5 in the simulator. They performed almost identically but the TS1 didn't lose as much distance on a toe strike. I hit both off the toe beyond the grooves and the TS1 lost about 15 yards and was pretty straight while the ZX5 lost a bit more than 20 yards but was still straight. The ZX5 has a slightly larger head and a wider sole but look pretty similar behind the ball. The TS1 felt worse on the toe strike but better on a flushed strike. 

[iamlowsound]

4 hours ago, Therty said:

As someone who whacks the toe often, the TS3 feels way better than the TS2 outside of the grooves (lol), for whatever that is worth. Time will tell if it performs as admirably as the TS2 long irons have for me over the years, though - I’ve certainly hit the front of some greens I’ve had no business being close to….

 

 

Oh man, the TS1 feels terrible outside of the grooves but still performs, maybe a 10% loss. I actually like how terrible it feels out there, pressures you to hit them better. 

[jfrank]

On 2/16/2023 at 10:50 PM, Cwebb said:

 

Yeah, the TE/DBM are also less than 1".  So with these, sometimes we need to soft-step, if wanting to get closer to a flex match compared to an iron design with the a higher BBGM

In this scenario, would a ProMODUS3 shaft for a given TS3 iron play a little stiffer since you are butt trimming less?  Or would the shaft not be long enough to get to playing length (probably not since I'm standard length)?  A little stiffer might be good, since I'm somewhere on the verge of S/XS. 

[omegafett]

3 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

So lets take a look at the COG for a few of the heads. 

The Highest to the Lowest

TS-2    .796

KE4.    .783

TS-1.   .750

STi2.   .743

TS3.    .691

TE.      .675

 

So to put this in context. The TS-1 is 24/32" or 3/4"

TS3 is 22/32"

Not that much of a difference in reality. 

 

 

From top to bottom, the spread is only 0.121". When compared to a 1.68" golf ball, its insignificant. 

[GolfinEngineer]

Alright I got TS3 7i in the house. I'm going get it glued up and compare to my TS1s (gamer) PTM, and TE(6i so comparable loft). What do you all want to know? 

Also below is a top line view of the 4 clubs plus an MP-33 for scale(I know I'm not good enough to play these but they are just so pretty to look at and pure) I will agree that the Maltbys don't photograph the best but I did fear the topline being to thick to my eye and it is much better then expected.

 

Take your best guess what order they are in? (MP-33 is the thinnest)

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by pozzit

[ode]

Muzzy - TE - TS1 - PTM - TS3

[Cwebb]

8 minutes ago, omegafett said:

From top to bottom, the spread is only 0.121". When compared to a 1.68" golf ball, its insignificant. 

 

Nope.  The reference point is the .840" center of a golf ball, when sitting on a tight lie. 

 

Iron heads and golf balls are small objects, therefore the differences can be very small between decent contact, pure contact, and marginal or a "thin" strike.

 

While 2-4 millimeters sounds very small and insignificant, it's enough of a difference with the same swing, for one head design to produce a marginal strike and another design to have a very solid strike.

 

One of the worst choices a player can make who is a sweeper or picker, is an iron design that is near or above .840".....and plenty of other players can gain "playability" or "easier to hit" by making sure the AVCOG is not on the higher side.

 

Precise pure contact is a game of millimeters.  Might as well stack the odds in our favor

[Cwebb]

39 minutes ago, jfrank said:

In this scenario, would a ProMODUS3 shaft for a given TS3 iron play a little stiffer since you are butt trimming less?  Or would the shaft not be long enough to get to playing length (probably not since I'm standard length)?  A little stiffer might be good, since I'm somewhere on the verge of S/XS. 

 

It always depends on what we are comparing it to.  The general idea (all else equal), is a that head design with a lower Bottom of Bore to Ground Measurement will make the same shaft play somewhat stiffer...and vice versa.  Figure that a 1/2" difference in BBGM is about a "1 step difference" in terms of soft or hard stepping with discreet length shafts (usually .355" taper) or a 1/2" tip trim difference for parallel shafts

[SE Gamer]

1 hour ago, iamlowsound said:

Oh man, the TS1 feels terrible outside of the grooves but still performs, maybe a 10% loss. I actually like how terrible it feels out there, pressures you to hit them better. 

 

I don't think it feels terrible on off center hits. But I'm also coming from blades. 

I will say that well struck shots with the TS1 feel amazing. I picked up a set of Rogue ST Pro (just too good a deal to pass up). Great irons, but the TS1 feels better on a flushed shot. Not that the ST Pro is bad. But there's just something different about the TS1.

[SE Gamer]

25 minutes ago, ode said:

Muzzy - TE - TS1 - PTM - TS3

 

Can we assume this was correct?

While I'm sure I could deal with the size, the top 2 are much larger to my eye than I'd prefer.

[Nideda24]

Was able to have a quick comparison session on the sim today to test 2 different TS3 7 irons setups against my current TS-1. 
 

Off the bat, the pure strikes of the TS3 felt amazing. As @Popeye64 mentioned, it’s that kind of feel that you want to keep chasing when you flush it. The TS-1s are no slouch in the feel department, but the TS3s felt softer which I loved. 
 

From a performance perspective, I saw slightly lower launch from the TS3s ~19°, 120-121 mph ball speed carrying about 180-185. The TS-1s were a little faster, 121-123 ball speed and launched a little higher ~20-21° carrying about 183-187. I would expect the margin to narrow as I hit more. 
 

TS3 was better for me in terms of dispersion and consistency, though that could be because the shaft felt more comfortable (Modus 105x in the TS3 and TT DG X100 in the TS-1). 
 

Testing was limited, but I’m eager to bite the bullet and complete the set of TS3s this season. TS-1s will be a backup or get posted in BTS. 
 

If anyone is interested in a TS3 7 iron with a TT DG 120 X100, I’ll be looking to offload that as the Modus was better for me. 

[iamlowsound]

1 hour ago, SE Gamer said:

 

I don't think it feels terrible on off center hits. But I'm also coming from blades. 

I will say that well struck shots with the TS1 feel amazing. I picked up a set of Rogue ST Pro (just too good a deal to pass up). Great irons, but the TS1 feels better on a flushed shot. Not that the ST Pro is bad. But there's just something different about the TS1.

Compared to a flushed shot they feel terrible out past the grooves. Heel shots don't feel bad, toe shots easily feel the worst. Maybe it's the added super clicky sound they have on toe strikes that makes it terrible. The performance out of the toe is extremely impressive though. 

[SE Gamer]

1 minute ago, iamlowsound said:

Compared to a flushed shot they feel terrible out past the grooves. Heel shots don't feel bad, toe shots easily feel the worst. Maybe it's the added super clicky sound they have on toe strikes that makes it terrible. The performance out of the toe is extremely impressive though. 

 

Could be that my miss is heel side. Very rare that I catch one out towards the toe.

[Therty]

4 hours ago, jfrank said:

Nice shot, strange that it spun back after that distance - is that a 7iron?  Are you seeing consistent launch with the TS3?  I know you're playing a lower launch shaft, but I was curious about the low COG with a higher swing speed.  

Yea, 7i. It was in a sim round I would read to much into the total distance number, I think I landed in a downslope.

 

It’s a constant fight for me to get launch below 20 degree. TS3 launch has been consistent, but the TS1 in my gaming bag is also consistent. I just have a flippy tendancy. Ts3 launch is better on the thin ones,but i dont have any more issue launching low than any iron I play. My r10 id say skews low on the launch, but 14 is a very good number for me.

 

fwiw i played in the sim today and hit 3 7i : 17.0, 16.8, 20.1 launch

 

im going to make some direct TS1 / TS3 7i comparisons for myself later this week. Ill share some of the data.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Therty

[GolfinEngineer]

2 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Can we assume this was correct?

While I'm sure I could deal with the size, the top 2 are much larger to my eye than I'd prefer.

Yes that is the correct. And I was too but its honestly the pictures its weird I took a quick measurement and its 6.2mm which is exactly what Mizuno Mp HMB & JPX forged models are.

[SE Gamer]

6 minutes ago, pozzit said:

Yes that is the correct. And I was too but its honestly the pictures its weird I took a quick measurement and its 6.2mm which is exactly what Mizuno Mp HMB & JPX forged models are.

 

Guess the only thing to do is pick one up for testing. Absolutely will be trying the TS1-IM (already have a 7i in the OG TS1). And then probably will have to throw in the TS4 for good measure. And maybe the KE4 Max while I'm at it, lol.

[GolfinEngineer]

2 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Guess the only thing to do is pick one up for testing. Absolutely will be trying the TS1-IM (already have a 7i in the OG TS1). And then probably will have to throw in the TS4 for good measure. And maybe the KE4 Max while I'm at it, lol.

Yes I want to keep an eye on the TS-IM and TS4. Its entertaining that KE4 isn't to thick cause she is "confidence inspiring" 

 

I picked up a KE4 MAX 4i to try to replace my current 4i and gap 2i to 5i a little better.

[GolfinEngineer]

For reference topline thickness

TE 6i = 4.8mm

Ts1 7i = 5.5mm

PTM 7i = 6.3mm

TS3 7i = 6.3mm

KE4 Max 4i = 7.4mm

[marktheblake]

4 hours ago, omegafett said:

From top to bottom, the spread is only 0.121". When compared to a 1.68" golf ball, its insignificant. 

 

however consider the size of the COG is about 0.001" (rounded) its not hard to miss and gear effect kicks in regardless of how small.   

 

i doubt we want to miss the COG by more than 0.5"  thus that range from top to bottom is important, we golfers really should choose the optimal one.

[Bryceslu]

3 hours ago, Nideda24 said:

Was able to have a quick comparison session on the sim today to test 2 different TS3 7 irons setups against my current TS-1. 
 

Off the bat, the pure strikes of the TS3 felt amazing. As @Popeye64 mentioned, it’s that kind of feel that you want to keep chasing when you flush it. The TS-1s are no slouch in the feel department, but the TS3s felt softer which I loved. 
 

From a performance perspective, I saw slightly lower launch from the TS3s ~19°, 120-121 mph ball speed carrying about 180-185. The TS-1s were a little faster, 121-123 ball speed and launched a little higher ~20-21° carrying about 183-187. I would expect the margin to narrow as I hit more. 
 

TS3 was better for me in terms of dispersion and consistency, though that could be because the shaft felt more comfortable (Modus 105x in the TS3 and TT DG X100 in the TS-1). 
 

Testing was limited, but I’m eager to bite the bullet and complete the set of TS3s this season. TS-1s will be a backup or get posted in BTS. 
 

If anyone is interested in a TS3 7 iron with a TT DG 120 X100, I’ll be looking to offload that as the Modus was better for me. 

I might be interested in that ts3 7i. Those are the shafts I am looking to play. I’ll PM you. 

[SE Gamer]

8 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

What do you mean by shovel like iron?   Is that a somewhat thicker top-line and larger size, in general?

 

Keeping in mind that there are no truly small sized irons in the Maltby lineup.  They don't do shorter blade lengths, like a traditional Mizuno blade for example

 

Sorry, didn't see this quoted earlier. 

 

Combo of the top-line and overall footprint. Think the thicker top-line of the TS3 also makes the toe look clunkier to my eye. Not incredibly sensitive to blade length. Top-line is really the thing I look at.

How it's designed does make a big difference visually though. For instance, the Rogue ST Pro set I have is actually thicker than the TS1. But the ST Pro looks slimmer at address. Even right next to each other. Maybe it's the bevel? I really don't know. 

[S.A. OSO]

10 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

The TS-2 was at the top of my bag for quite a while. I had them blended with the TS-1. 

But for what ever reason I noticed a continued issue for me with the TS-2. I would hit a random and out of nowhere knuckle ball. When at the range pounding balls it will arise. Worse it would show up on course. I assume it's higher VCOG was in play along with a high on the face strike. Yet that was the only club it would happen with. So at some point I abandoned them. 

The TS3 will go under some serious testing starting the end of this week. But right off the bat the TS3 has a lot more mass down low. Feel wise across the face seems far better than the TS-2. The TS-2 is far from being a bad feeling iron. The TS3 is just in a whole other class. 

Sometime next week after pounding countless balls I'll certainly have more to post and say. 

Thanks for the information. Your feedback is enlightenting and have a few questions.....

 

What do you mean by Knuckle ball? And what did you swap out the TS-2 for? Are you considering going TS-3 throughout the whole bag?

 

Thanks again.

[gioreeko]

9 hours ago, Fellaheen51 said:

Interesting with Popeye's comment on the lineage of the TS3's to the TE's.  And the subsequent mention of the mass down low (VCOG) of the TS3's.  When I tested a demo TE 7 iron for a full season a few years back, the trajectory was way to high.  As in moonshots.  And despite trying three different shafts, couldn't tame it.  Lost a full club compared with the irons that were going to be replaced (only 1* loft difference).   Unacceptable for me to go backwards in distance realized.  

 

Have been following along here, considering a possible replacement for the TS1's.  They've been very good irons.  But at a point where utilizing irons that are less demanding would be beneficial.  Plus, it's time to switch to LW graphite shafts (age and SS).  But that VCOG of the 3's makes me nervous.  I recalled the TE's when I first read the number.  While a single data point doesn't tell the whole story, it remains a pause for concern.  Perhaps mitigated in some measure by the stronger lofts.   A demo club would certainly have to be evaluated before proceeding with an entire set.  

 

FWIW.  The Max could be a suitable candidate.  But do to fitting factors, play irons +1" (36.5" PW) and 3* up at the added length.  Not sure the Max can be bent that much.  And by some reports, a PITA to do so.  

 

So continue to read the tea leaves here attempting to figure out a path forward.  

get forged, like the TS3, would be able to bend that much

[Therty]

1 hour ago, pozzit said:

For reference topline thickness

TE 6i = 4.8mm

Ts1 7i = 5.5mm

PTM 7i = 6.3mm

TS3 7i = 6.3mm

KE4 Max 4i = 7.4mm

TS3 looks worse in pictures than down by the ball… but i was playing TS2 6i and 5i which are huge by comparison.

 

TS3 just needed a tiny bevel along the back of the top line and it would look perfect

[Popeye64]

29 minutes ago, S.A. OSO said:

Thanks for the information. Your feedback is enlightenting and have a few questions.....

 

What do you mean by Knuckle ball? And what did you swap out the TS-2 for? Are you considering going TS-3 throughout the whole bag?

 

Thanks again.

The 'Knuckle Ball' I would hit with the TS-2 would get up quickly have an erratic flight and then fall out of the air. 

It only happens with the TS-2. Outdoors on the range is where it's most prevalent. Contact would feel high on the face when it happens. 

The TS-2s remained at the top of the bag till the KE4 Max came out. I don't hit a ton of shots with my 4,5,6. The overall performance of the KE4 Max won out the entire bag. It's an iron design I wouldn't normally even consider yet they work and work well. I've gone very low consistently with those all last year. 

I have an entire set of the TS3s already made up. So as soon as I can I'll be doing on course and range testing. I expect a lot of head to head shots on course, TS3 vs KE4. 

I hope to get on a Trackman setup this week as well as the normal Flightscope. 

 

[Nels55]

23 minutes ago, Popeye64 said:

The 'Knuckle Ball' I would hit with the TS-2 would get up quickly have an erratic flight and then fall out of the air. 

It only happens with the TS-2. Outdoors on the range is where it's most prevalent. Contact would feel high on the face when it happens. 

Knuckle balls with range balls only or with a urethane ball also?