My experience gaming Game Improvement irons as a Mid Handicapper

[chippa13]

I've been working a draw into my game recently with my Rocketbladez to complement my natural fade and I'm no all-star. Don't tell me GIs aren't workable.

[Tree Levino]

> @chippa13 said:

> I've been working a draw into my game recently with my Rocketbladez to complement my natural fade and I'm no all-star. Don't tell me GIs aren't workable.

 

Shot shaping isn't just left and right.

[Nessism]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @chippa13 said:

> > I've been working a draw into my game recently with my Rocketbladez to complement my natural fade and I'm no all-star. Don't tell me GIs aren't workable.

>

> Shot shaping isn't just left and right.

 

Maybe not only, but mostly. And trust me, low balls can be hit with GI irons. Come play sometime and I'll show you how to hit a G410 LOW.

 

 

[North Butte]

> @Nessism said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @chippa13 said:

> > > I've been working a draw into my game recently with my Rocketbladez to complement my natural fade and I'm no all-star. Don't tell me GIs aren't workable.

> >

> > Shot shaping isn't just left and right.

>

> Maybe not only, but mostly. And trust me, low balls can be hit with GI irons. Come play sometime and I'll show you how to hit a G410 LOW.

 

Kinda of like how I can work the ball in either direction. You just have wait and let me tell you which way I was working it after I see where it goes.

 

Or my buddy who can hit a "draw" or a "fade" with a driver. The "draw" starts out over the tree line down the right side and hooks 40 yards clear across the fairway by the time it stops rolling. The "fade" starts out just inside the treeline down the right side and hooks 20 yards back into the middle of the fairway.

 

But seriously, I will agree to one thing about "working" trajectories with GI vs. old-style clubs. I've recently switched back from using the "set" wedges (GW, SW, LW) to my long-time favorite Vokeys. Even a hack like me has a fighting chance of keeping a Vokey 50-degree gap wedge shot under an overhanging tree branch a few yards ahead of me. For whatever reason, the same loft cavity-back "set" wedge seems to always get up just little quicker and manage to rise just high enough to clip a limb.

 

Maybe it's mental but I think a punchy mid-trajectory shot is pretty difficult to keep down with SGI type short irons and wedges.

[Tree Levino]

> @Nessism said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @chippa13 said:

> > > I've been working a draw into my game recently with my Rocketbladez to complement my natural fade and I'm no all-star. Don't tell me GIs aren't workable.

> >

> > Shot shaping isn't just left and right.

>

> Maybe not only, but mostly. And trust me, low balls can be hit with GI irons. Come play sometime and I'll show you how to hit a G410 LOW.

>

>

 

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Nessism said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > @chippa13 said:

> > > > I've been working a draw into my game recently with my Rocketbladez to complement my natural fade and I'm no all-star. Don't tell me GIs aren't workable.

> > >

> > > Shot shaping isn't just left and right.

> >

> > Maybe not only, but mostly. And trust me, low balls can be hit with GI irons. Come play sometime and I'll show you how to hit a G410 LOW.

>

> Kinda of like how I can work the ball in either direction. You just have wait and let me tell you which way I was working it after I see where it goes.

>

> Or my buddy who can hit a "draw" or a "fade" with a driver. The "draw" starts out over the tree line down the right side and hooks 40 yards clear across the fairway by the time it stops rolling. The "fade" starts out just inside the treeline down the right side and hooks 20 yards back into the middle of the fairway.

>

> But seriously, I will agree to one thing about "working" trajectories with GI vs. old-style clubs. I've recently switched back from using the "set" wedges (GW, SW, LW) to my long-time favorite Vokeys. Even a hack like me has a fighting chance of keeping a Vokey 50-degree gap wedge shot under an overhanging tree branch a few yards ahead of me. For whatever reason, the same loft cavity-back "set" wedge seems to always get up just little quicker and manage to rise just high enough to clip a limb.

>

> Maybe it's mental but I think a punchy mid-trajectory shot is pretty difficult to keep down with SGI type short irons and wedges.

 

Really good comments here. I totally agree that you can hit low shots with SGI irons - I have no issues knocking them down. That said, the other day I had 140 over a pond to a very wide but thin green (maybe 15 paces from front to back but 30-40 yards wide), a touch of breeze in the face, I decided to go for a flighted 9 instead of a full PW. I am much more comfortable with that shot using blades rather than big chunky clubs. I'd worry about going long with a chunky monkey. That's just me, maybe you're more skilled than I am and would have no issue with that shot but I put it close and made a bird. Same experience when I used to play a Ping UW vs my 50 degree vokey - lower shots of all kinds are easier.

[Nessism]

> @third-times-a-charm said:

> > @Nessism said:

> > > @third-times-a-charm said:

> > >

> > > I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

> > >

> > > Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

> >

> > Do you play hickory?

> >

> >

>

> No - Did you get that from the fly fishing comment? You're misconstruing that comparison.

 

I'm not misconstruing, just being snarky. Sorry for that.

Truth is your comment is off topic for this discussion because you apparently select clubs based on personal bias. On the other hand, and this is BIG, there are a HUGE % of players that do just like you; purchase clubs based on looks, feel, coolness, and whatever personal values someone attaches to a set of clubs. Everything else tends to go out the window. To each their own of course. My only hang up relative to this is when people try to claim the superiority of small players clubs over GI clubs when their scoring/handicap suggest less than elite ball striking abilities. And yes, we all know that scoring is not always directly linked to the skill one has with an iron in their hand (but most of the time is it).

[mahonie]

> @Nessism said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @chippa13 said:

> > > I've been working a draw into my game recently with my Rocketbladez to complement my natural fade and I'm no all-star. Don't tell me GIs aren't workable.

> >

> > Shot shaping isn't just left and right.

>

> Maybe not only, but mostly. And trust me, low balls can be hit with GI irons. Come play sometime and I'll show you how to hit a G410 LOW.

>

>

 

Topping it doesn’t count ;-)

[Tree Levino]

> @Nessism said:

> > @third-times-a-charm said:

> > > @Nessism said:

> > > > @third-times-a-charm said:

> > > >

> > > > I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

> > > >

> > > > Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

> > >

> > > Do you play hickory?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > No - Did you get that from the fly fishing comment? You're misconstruing that comparison.

>

> I'm not misconstruing, just being snarky. Sorry for that.

> Truth is your comment is off topic for this discussion because you apparently select clubs based on personal bias. On the other hand, and this is BIG, there are a HUGE % of players that do just like you; purchase clubs based on looks, feel, coolness, and whatever personal values someone attaches to a set of clubs. Everything else tends to go out the window. To each their own of course. My only hang up relative to this is when people try to claim the superiority of small players clubs over GI clubs when their scoring/handicap suggest less than elite ball striking abilities. And yes, we all know that scoring is not always directly linked to the skill one has with an iron in their hand (but most of the time is it).

 

Do you not agree that it is possible for someone to hit an AP2 better than an AP1 all other things such as shaft equal? Sole, club balance (head included), etc make a huge difference and it is very possible a 10HC may make consistently better contact with AP2 and therefore score better. Not all the time, but sometimes.

[North Butte]

> @balls_deep said:

> Do you not agree that it is possible for someone to hit an AP2 better than an AP1 all other things such as shaft equal? Sole, club balance (head included), etc make a huge difference and it is very possible a 10HC may make consistently better contact with AP2 and therefore score better. Not all the time, but sometimes.

 

Sure but only if he really wants and expects to hit the AP2 better. Golf isn't a double-blind scientific experiment.

 

If a guy looks down at an AP1 and says, "I'm not going to be able to hit that, too chunky" then more often than not he will not hit it well. Nothing to do with swing mechanics or the physics of club/ball interaction. He just does what he thinks he's going to do because he "knows" what will happen.

 

If a 10hcp makes consistently better contact and scores better with a physically smaller, less forgiving iron then the reason is 100% mental. Which isn't to say it doesn't exist, just that it is a cognitively mediated.

 

Man is not a rational creature. Man is a rationalizing creature. Golfers even moreso!

[mahonie]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @Nessism said:

> > > @third-times-a-charm said:

> > > > @Nessism said:

> > > > > @third-times-a-charm said:

> > > > >

> > > > > I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

> > > > >

> > > > > Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

> > > >

> > > > Do you play hickory?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > No - Did you get that from the fly fishing comment? You're misconstruing that comparison.

> >

> > I'm not misconstruing, just being snarky. Sorry for that.

> > Truth is your comment is off topic for this discussion because you apparently select clubs based on personal bias. On the other hand, and this is BIG, there are a HUGE % of players that do just like you; purchase clubs based on looks, feel, coolness, and whatever personal values someone attaches to a set of clubs. Everything else tends to go out the window. To each their own of course. My only hang up relative to this is when people try to claim the superiority of small players clubs over GI clubs when their scoring/handicap suggest less than elite ball striking abilities. And yes, we all know that scoring is not always directly linked to the skill one has with an iron in their hand (but most of the time is it).

>

> Do you not agree that it is possible for someone to hit an AP2 better than an AP1 all other things such as shaft equal? Sole, club balance (head included), etc make a huge difference and it is very possible a 10HC may make consistently better contact with AP2 and therefore score better. Not all the time, but sometimes.

 

Anecdotal I know...I’ve played 2 scratch matches recently against guys playing AP2s. Both guys had better handicaps than me...one was off 7, the other off 8. So, as an 11, I’m giving up 4 and 3 shots respectively. The match against the 7 finished all-square, I won against the 8, 1-up. Yes I had home advantage, but what I noticed was that the difference in our respective levels of play wasn’t down to the quality of our ball-striking with irons, there were variations across all aspects of our games. I was definitely straighter off the tee than both guys, but not quite as long. Both were better than me from 100 yards in but that is not difficult, but I probably edged in putting.

 

Interestingly, they both thought that I was within a stroke of their handicaps. Would the results have been better had I been playing more forgiving irons? I honestly don’t think it would make any difference. Most lost holes were due to a wayward tee shot or won with a holed putt, not because of the forgiveness level of the respective irons.

 

Some people get hung up on “playing at golf” rather than just “playing golf.”

[Tree Levino]

> @mahonie said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @Nessism said:

> > > > @third-times-a-charm said:

> > > > > @Nessism said:

> > > > > > @third-times-a-charm said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you play hickory?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > No - Did you get that from the fly fishing comment? You're misconstruing that comparison.

> > >

> > > I'm not misconstruing, just being snarky. Sorry for that.

> > > Truth is your comment is off topic for this discussion because you apparently select clubs based on personal bias. On the other hand, and this is BIG, there are a HUGE % of players that do just like you; purchase clubs based on looks, feel, coolness, and whatever personal values someone attaches to a set of clubs. Everything else tends to go out the window. To each their own of course. My only hang up relative to this is when people try to claim the superiority of small players clubs over GI clubs when their scoring/handicap suggest less than elite ball striking abilities. And yes, we all know that scoring is not always directly linked to the skill one has with an iron in their hand (but most of the time is it).

> >

> > Do you not agree that it is possible for someone to hit an AP2 better than an AP1 all other things such as shaft equal? Sole, club balance (head included), etc make a huge difference and it is very possible a 10HC may make consistently better contact with AP2 and therefore score better. Not all the time, but sometimes.

>

> Anecdotal I know...I’ve played 2 scratch matches recently against guys playing AP2s. Both guys had better handicaps than me...one was off 7, the other off 8. So, as an 11, I’m giving up 4 and 3 shots respectively. The match against the 7 finished all-square, I won against the 8, 1-up. Yes I had home advantage, but what I noticed was that the difference in our respective levels of play wasn’t down to the quality of our ball-striking with irons, there were variations across all aspects of our games. I was definitely straighter off the tee than both guys, but not quite as long. Both were better than me from 100 yards in but that is not difficult, but I probably edged in putting.

>

> Interestingly, they both thought that I was within a stroke of their handicaps. Would the results have been better had I been playing more forgiving irons? I honestly don’t think it would make any difference. Most lost holes were due to a wayward tee shot or won with a holed putt, not because of the forgiveness level of the respective irons.

>

> Some people get hung up on “playing at golf” rather than just “playing golf.”

 

Another anecdote, I've seen more average golfers playing blades than scratch golfers. Most of my scratch buddies play AP2, Srixon 7x5, Apex Pro, CB etc.

[North Butte]

The best player I get to play with more than once in a blue moon switched from blades to forged cavity backs about 15 years ago and would never even consider going back. The teaching pro I take lessons from has, I believe, the Epic irons. If not them, then one of the recent Callaway models with the full-on high tech. He says any shot he can't hit with the the Callaways he probably couldn't hit with any club.

[mahonie]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @mahonie said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > @Nessism said:

> > > > > @third-times-a-charm said:

> > > > > > @Nessism said:

> > > > > > > @third-times-a-charm said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Do you play hickory?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > No - Did you get that from the fly fishing comment? You're misconstruing that comparison.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not misconstruing, just being snarky. Sorry for that.

> > > > Truth is your comment is off topic for this discussion because you apparently select clubs based on personal bias. On the other hand, and this is BIG, there are a HUGE % of players that do just like you; purchase clubs based on looks, feel, coolness, and whatever personal values someone attaches to a set of clubs. Everything else tends to go out the window. To each their own of course. My only hang up relative to this is when people try to claim the superiority of small players clubs over GI clubs when their scoring/handicap suggest less than elite ball striking abilities. And yes, we all know that scoring is not always directly linked to the skill one has with an iron in their hand (but most of the time is it).

> > >

> > > Do you not agree that it is possible for someone to hit an AP2 better than an AP1 all other things such as shaft equal? Sole, club balance (head included), etc make a huge difference and it is very possible a 10HC may make consistently better contact with AP2 and therefore score better. Not all the time, but sometimes.

> >

> > Anecdotal I know...I’ve played 2 scratch matches recently against guys playing AP2s. Both guys had better handicaps than me...one was off 7, the other off 8. So, as an 11, I’m giving up 4 and 3 shots respectively. The match against the 7 finished all-square, I won against the 8, 1-up. Yes I had home advantage, but what I noticed was that the difference in our respective levels of play wasn’t down to the quality of our ball-striking with irons, there were variations across all aspects of our games. I was definitely straighter off the tee than both guys, but not quite as long. Both were better than me from 100 yards in but that is not difficult, but I probably edged in putting.

> >

> > Interestingly, they both thought that I was within a stroke of their handicaps. Would the results have been better had I been playing more forgiving irons? I honestly don’t think it would make any difference. Most lost holes were due to a wayward tee shot or won with a holed putt, not because of the forgiveness level of the respective irons.

> >

> > Some people get hung up on “playing at golf” rather than just “playing golf.”

>

> Another anecdote, I've seen more average golfers playing blades than scratch golfers. Most of my scratch buddies play AP2, Srixon 7x5, Apex Pro, CB etc.

 

I’ve never seen a good ball-striker playing AP2s...with the exception of Spieth.

 

I’ve tested them against the MP4s and Ping S55s. On the launch monitor, I couldn’t separate the MP4s or the Pings, AP2s are probably the most disappointing irons I’ve hit. Felt very harsh, suffered more on mishits, overall not great. Biggest surprise was the fantastic feel of the Pings...almost on a level with the MP4s.

 

Make no mistake, if the AP2s had offered any advantage over the MP4s, I’d be playing them now...they just didn’t come anywhere near. The really disappointing part is that they were on close out and I could have had a brand new set at half retail price. Being someone who struggles to turn a bargain down, it was really frustrating. As the AP2s are toted as the best of both worlds in terms of forgiveness and feel, I’ve never had the inclination to try any of the other offerings...bearing in mind that I was a long time player of the Nike Split Cavities before moving on to the MP4s and scoring better after the switch.

[chisag]

> @"North Butte" said:

> The best player I get to play with more than once in a blue moon switched from blades to forged cavity backs about 15 years ago and would never even consider going back. The teaching pro I take lessons from has, I believe, the Epic irons. If not them, then one of the recent Callaway models with the full-on high tech. He says any shot he can't hit with the the Callaways he probably couldn't hit with any club.

 

... I played with 2 Club Pro's in the early 40's out in Phoenix last winter and one of them was using some Titleist MB's and the other G400's. Pro with the MB's shot an 83 and the Pro with the G400's shot a 67. I shot a 71 using my P760's right between the two, although at 66 I was playing 6500 and they were playing 7000. I asked him why he wasn't using Player Irons and he shrugged and said "Why would I? I'll take all the forgiveness I can get. I missed several iron shots today but they ended up just fine.". The other Pro said "I should be playing shovels but hate the look and the lack of feel. But I am gonna start playing a CB soon. Very soon." His friend laughed and said "No you won't. You will never give up your blades." He grinned and said " A guy can dream can't he?"

 

[rxk9fan]

It has been a great golf year. I was just looking at my GHIN, and I have posted 20 scores since 5/25/2019. This is as much golf as I have ever played. FINALLY in the last month I have reached a point where I feel like I might go low at anytime. I have finally made it past equipment and swing thoughts, and it has came down to course management.

My (choices:

1. As for the Hot Metal Pros and the G410's, nothing about them improve my game. I might be able to bag them in a 4 and 5 iron, but the wide soles are a hindrance to my ability to score.

2. Irons for me come down to sole width and shaft. A really narrow soled iron hurts me in the long irons, and too stiff of a shaft destroys my trajectory control.

3. I have played a lot of rounds this summer with the Srixon 9 series and 7 series. I can tell very little difference between the two on the course. I love them both. I don't know why, but the TM P770 is my favorite iron of all time. It fits my game for whatever reason and once I built my own set with a 95gm shaft and all built to a D2 swing weight, my scores have finally made a significant shift lower. I have not been out of the 70's since getting them back in the bag.

 

I guess we all know that in the end, there is no club/shaft that is right for everyone. Me trying to generalize for others now seems arrogant and misguided. It is impossible for me to know what club gives someone else the best chance to score. I also feel it is unlikely I can build a crosswalk between handicap and iron class that would be dependable.

I have enjoyed this thread as I am always interested in many aspects of this game. I was able to play 63 holes this week on really good courses with a lot of different players. I saw some great shots from poor players, some horrible shots from strong players, and I paid close to zero attention to what irons anyone was playing. No one commented on mine.

My course management was poor at times and it held me back. Having said that, my game was otherwise strong and 79 was my worst round. As for equipment, all I know is what I can and can not play. It feels good to be working on my shots instead of working on my bag :-).