My experience gaming Game Improvement irons as a Mid Handicapper

[nostatic]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @Nessism said:

> > HMP are distance players irons, not GI irons. The MOI is not particularly high, although more so than your blades, so off center strike forgiveness is not into the realm of modern true GI irons. In terms of how much the clubs may benefit your game, that depends on what your miss is. If you miss heavy or thin I doubt the clubs will help, but if you miss off the sweet spot then they should.

> >

> > Back when I was playing blades my first foray into CB irons was a failure because the clubs didn't suit me. I went back to blades and swore to never stray again. Eventually I broke my promise and tried some more suitable CB irons and liked them, but the real mean shift came with a set of G10's purchased on a lark. I was just flabbergasted with how easy they were to hit and I'll never go back to hard to hit clubs again, other than just for fun now and again.

>

> I can second this about the HMPs. It's not the most forgiving of clubs and they are cast, so I do feel like the payoff when you do hit it pure is not as good as with a forged club. That said, I can tell perfectly well where it hit on the face so I can't say that's been an issue for me.

> But you do have to spend time (and maybe money) finding the right GI set. I tried the real large head SGI irons for awhile and ironically, my problem was not with bad, off center shots (because they still pretty much flew although they were mishit terribly) but with good shots that felt flush and perfect but flew far forward and far off target. Although I don't like the strictness of the true blades, I didn't feel like a shot that wild should have felt that good.

 

I hit a number of different GI, Players Distance, and Players irons. Some worked for me, others didn't, And it didn't really correlate with GI being the "easiest/best". For instance I just didn't like the AP1 at all. I also didn't care for the Hot Metal. But for whatever reason (probably offset), the Hot Metal Pro I like a lot. Not all irons within a category hit/feel the same.

[IamMarkMac]

> @nostatic said:

> > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > @Nessism said:

> > > HMP are distance players irons, not GI irons. The MOI is not particularly high, although more so than your blades, so off center strike forgiveness is not into the realm of modern true GI irons. In terms of how much the clubs may benefit your game, that depends on what your miss is. If you miss heavy or thin I doubt the clubs will help, but if you miss off the sweet spot then they should.

> > >

> > > Back when I was playing blades my first foray into CB irons was a failure because the clubs didn't suit me. I went back to blades and swore to never stray again. Eventually I broke my promise and tried some more suitable CB irons and liked them, but the real mean shift came with a set of G10's purchased on a lark. I was just flabbergasted with how easy they were to hit and I'll never go back to hard to hit clubs again, other than just for fun now and again.

> >

> > I can second this about the HMPs. It's not the most forgiving of clubs and they are cast, so I do feel like the payoff when you do hit it pure is not as good as with a forged club. That said, I can tell perfectly well where it hit on the face so I can't say that's been an issue for me.

> > But you do have to spend time (and maybe money) finding the right GI set. I tried the real large head SGI irons for awhile and ironically, my problem was not with bad, off center shots (because they still pretty much flew although they were mishit terribly) but with good shots that felt flush and perfect but flew far forward and far off target. Although I don't like the strictness of the true blades, I didn't feel like a shot that wild should have felt that good.

>

> I hit a number of different GI, Players Distance, and Players irons. Some worked for me, others didn't, And it didn't really correlate with GI being the "easiest/best". For instance I just didn't like the AP1 at all. I also didn't care for the Hot Metal. But for whatever reason (probably offset), the Hot Metal Pro I like a lot. Not all irons within a category hit/feel the same.

Yeah, the GI argument is difficult when you have a grooved swing and are used to a particular kind of club. The technically easiest club to hit could conceivably become a hook monster or something when your strike is consistent.

 

[ALIF]

So for years I played a set of re-shafted 1949 Tommy Armour MacGregor irons (985). I’ve also played both 1961 and1962 Staff Dynapower irons. Also played 1999 HoganApex for 8 years. I played well with all of them. I have mostly played a set of Ping Eye 2’s since 2012. I have a G700 5 iron which goes as far as the Eye 2 three iron. I’m also going to replace the Eye 2 four and 5 irons with the G 700 six and 7 irons. I can hit any shot I want with the Pings that I can hit with the butter knives. Offset doesn’t matter to me. I could wake up one morning and play either set. I just prefer the Pings. I like the ball flight, feel, spin, setup, etc with the Eye 2’s. The G700’s are like cheating they are so easy to hit. They cover my 225-190 yard range. I might possibly even replace my Eye 2 six iron with a G700 eight iron. Most likely will replace my remaining Eye 2 irons with the i210 this summer or early fall. Honestly, I only care about what my scorecard looks like, not my bag setup. Look at what some of the best players in the world do. Titleist TMB long and mid irons, i500 long irons, hybrids, 7 woods, etc. Sure, I could keep playing the less forgiving, lower launching irons but why? Nostalgia? I have a classic bag setup if I ever want to go play a round with persimmon and blades. I find the GI irons not only are easy to hit, forgiveness, etc, but they instill confidence in me. I think the mental benefit they give me is almost important as the physical benefit they give me.

[rxk9fan]

I want the GI to do for me what it has for chiva. I feel like the most important attribute...the why I am doing this for me....the why for choosing a GI needs to be confidence. When a am sitting in the fairway and 100 yards out, I feel like the course now owes me. I am that confident that I will hit a shot that will give me a putt I have at least a good chance to make. With the old blades, I had that confidence through the 9i, and I was confident I would hit the green at least through the 7i. I was hoping a GI would give me at least another clubs distance with this confidence to always at least hit the green because if nothing else the loft of the 7i would be close to my old 6i but with a 7i length shaft.

Maybe today it will start to happen :-)

[craz-e]

I am straying from MB’s currently but shush don’t tell anyone, I have a set of 718 CB’s in the bag and so far I am impressed especially with the 4 and 5 iron stupid easy to hit.

Maybe a combo set is in my future as I miss the feeling I get with a blade in my hand especially with the scoring clubs.

[Tree Levino]

> @craz-e said:

> I am straying from MB’s currently but shush don’t tell anyone, I have a set of 718 CB’s in the bag and so far I am impressed especially with the 4 and 5 iron stupid easy to hit.

> Maybe a combo set is in my future as I miss the feeling I get with a blade in my hand especially with the scoring clubs.

 

The CBs are fantastic and I feel they are 99% of what the MBs are in the short irons.

[ALIF]

> @rxk9fan said:

> I want the GI to do for me what it has for chiva. I feel like the most important attribute...the why I am doing this for me....the why for choosing a GI needs to be confidence. When a am sitting in the fairway and 100 yards out, I feel like the course now owes me. I am that confident that I will hit a shot that will give me a putt I have at least a good chance to make. With the old blades, I had that confidence through the 9i, and I was confident I would hit the green at least through the 7i. I was hoping a GI would give me at least another clubs distance with this confidence to always at least hit the green because if nothing else the loft of the 7i would be close to my old 6i but with a 7i length shaft.

> Maybe today it will start to happen :-)

 

I feel similar. And really, from 180-225+, I'm just hoping to get the ball anywhere on the green or pin high on the edge. I'm not expecting to hit it stiff from 205. Most guys on tour aren't either.

[rxk9fan]

Today was SO much better. A course I had never seen before with a slope of 122 was on tap. 70 degrees and a light breeze with overcast skies made the perfect golf day for myself and one of the assistant pros at my home course. On the range he commented I was a little steep. I flattened it out and presto, through the turf the HMP went (though not a slice like the Srixon V sole). I could not keep up with his 71 (par 72), but my 75 felt like heaven after my mid nineties a few days back.

While I still don't consider the feel of these great, I was hitting the ball much better and the club had some feel to it.

The distance was very strong for me and controllable. I tried both the TP5 and the Bridgestone BXS. The TP5 may have stopped a tiny bit quicker but both had enough stopping power to keep me close enough to my divot to feel right. The one thing that I still need to work on is the partial PW. I think my tendency is to get a little steep with a partial wedge and the sole on these don't tolerate that well on a very tight lie.

Thanks for the great comments. I am a happy golfer today and way more pleased with my new GI's or distance irons whatever the definition should be.

The club design&lofts have probably given me more distance per number on the sole than I have ever had. Today that translated into some really nice shots from the 135 to 175 yard range. And, I have just got to tell about a par 3, 217 yard hole with all water for the carry. My 19 degree baffler FW put it to about 20 inches. Off topic but WOOHOOO.

[Crankenstein]

> @rxk9fan said:

“I tried both the TP5 and the Bridgestone BXS. The TP5 may have stopped a tiny bit quicker but both had enough stopping power to keep me close enough to my divot to feel right.”

 

So you’re happy with the rollouts? Recall the distances per iron? I’m using the same shaft as you, but not getting a high trajectory... kind of mid to slightly low. Wondering if I need a lower kick point or different AoA?

 

[rxk9fan]

> @Crankenstein said:

> > @rxk9fan said:

> “I tried both the TP5 and the Bridgestone BXS. The TP5 may have stopped a tiny bit quicker but both had enough stopping power to keep me close enough to my divot to feel right.”

>

> So you’re happy with the rollouts? Recall the distances per iron? I’m using the same shaft as you, but not getting a high trajectory... kind of mid to slightly low. Wondering if I need a lower kick point or different AoA?

>

 

Good morning,

I am getting higher ball flight for one and both balls were acting well. There were a few things different at the course I played from my home course.. The greens were very firm but a bit slower than home. They were in great health, almost difficult to fix divots on being so healthy and firm if that makes any sense. There was a ton of elevation in both directions. On one par 3 it was at least 200 feet down hill and the whole was playing 163. I hit an 8i that felt like it would never come down but finally thudded on the green. The ball ended about 1 foot from the divot. I slung one 7 iron to an elevated pin at 171 yards. It released probably 15 feet, but it was a draw to work around a bunker into a very firm green.

That one surprised me a bit but it worked out well.

I call the ball flight with these clubs medium to medium high. I will try to get on a monitor sometime pretty soon to get some spin numbers and work on gaps. The ability to stop the ball seems adequate to me and I much prefer what I saw yesterday than zipping balls back like crazy.

The ball, club,shaft seems like a good match for my swing.

[revanant]

The Cobra F6 Baffler is the real unsung hero of this thread. : )

[edgerat]

just my thought, if you have to work at it, they aren't worth it.

[rxk9fan]

> @edgerat said:

> just my thought, if you have to work at it, they aren't worth it.

If I went that direction, I would not have a club in my bag :-)

 

[Exactice808]

> @rxk9fan said:

> > @puttingmatt said:

> > Never understood the reasoning of making an iron change that goes from one style of clubhead to the complete opposite, rather drastic move without considering your games individual needs. There are so many club choices, maybe the hmp was not a good choice. Sounds completely different from what you were playing. Subtle head design changes can be the ticket. Not certain what a 180 yrd 7 iron

> > Is good for,

>

> I agree with much of this Sir and it is looking like a poor move at this point. I did think I might be missing out on something better for my game so I decided to give it a try after so many threads here made the point that almost no one should be playing blades except for the best of the best. Where I would push back on your post a little is that I did not feel I went with a complete opposite style of clubbed. The Hot Metal Pro is chunky, but in no way a shovel. It has very little offset. It looks much closer to a Z series Srixon than a SGI offering from any of the OEM's. I do understand the point you are making and you may well be spot on. Thank you for your time!

>

> I have not given up though. I hit 2 buckets at my courses range before playing 18 Friday. Yesterday we had hard winds and 30mph plus gust all day so instead of playing I put 5 buckets down range. I am hoping I made some progress late yesterday though they are in no way grooved :-) at this point. I will get 18 more today and am taking off Monday for 18 more. That is a enough time for me to either work through this, or tell me I need to go to my coach (Rick Grayson-always rated a one of the top coaches in Missouri) and get a look at what I am doing. I will only give up on this whole idea the day Rick says I am swinging well but I don't get what I want out of the shot. Maybe I am in a funk...would not be the first one and real sure I will have a few more.

> Happy Sunday to all!

 

If I may add the thoughts

 

As there is a "ROOT" discussion to all these threads and similar threads.

 

Intent. The clubs by basis and designs have INTENT that should be met by the golfer.

 

What do I mean? (Blasphemy to come)

 

1) Can we PUT X100 tour issue on an SGI head? X100 Tour issue on a set of TM M6 heads?

2) Can we put some 55gr graphite A flex on a set of Titleist MBs?

we sure as hell can, BUT ego also deflates that......

 

Now take into account of the HEAD by itself?

SGI, wider soles, lager heads, increased offset, Generally stronger lofts per the printed number on the bottom of the club

GI, medium sole, more traditional head, closer to mid range lofts, reduced offset

CB/MB narrow, traditional shaped, traditional lofts and minimal offset

 

Now add the Head to the "standard" shaft offers

Many SGI are offered in light weight and regular to stiff flex. Certain Kick points for flight and X spin characteristics

While Many players GI and CB/MB may have more stiffer and flighted type shafts with x spin characteristics

a 19 year old kid that just starts golf that is athletic, will not benefit to learn right of the bat with a 55gr SGI in regular flex if they are naturally talented and have a PW swing speed of 80+mph, IT might be better to get them in an S300 125gr SGI?

 

If a player that has specified issued yet has the ability to strike the ball center greater and more often, with a large offset club. Why would they need to a more narrow soled club or a club with less offset? Now a player that evolves as lets admit the higher handicappers general slice often, the offset is to allow for enhanced face closure to mitigate a slice right? What happens when the player starts correct the generic fault that the SGI was intended to address (example, OTT move)? We can have them adjust with the SGI offset by aim or face angle. Or we can change to a reduced offset system. BUT as above now we change additional facets like sole interaction and LOFTS this now incorporates distance gaping. As well. This can mess things as lets face it a hotter SGI PW at 44* vs an traditional CB PW at 46* with and lets face it how many people have S300 or greater shafted in their SGIs like the M6's? compared to moving to a Players GI or CB or MB thats is shafted and minimum in an S300?

 

SO..... does the move benefit you and your intent or grovelling swing.

 

If you prefer a certain look and your intent or evolution of golf does NOT fit why move or FORCE a move?

 

I cannot NOT hit an SGI due to offset, because of the visual. So even if I start losing distance, it makes no sense to move to a "distance" iron in which it wont benefit me or net me a benefit?. suck it up if I cannot hit my PW 130 yards anymore, I just need to use a 9 iron..... thats life.

 

[edgerat]

> @rxk9fan said:

> > @edgerat said:

> > just my thought, if you have to work at it, they aren't worth it.

> If I went that direction, I would not have a club in my bag :-)

>

 

hehe fair enough! :)

[rxk9fan]

I am sorry, but I don't understand much from a couple of post back. Not to be argumentative, but some sentences are not sentences and I don't understand the basis of the whole post. Let me ask for clarity of:

"If a player that has specified issued yet has the ability to strike the ball center greater and more often, with a large offset club."

"SO..... does the move benefit you and your intent or grovelling swing."

 

I would like to better understand the intent so that if it applies to my OP, I can attempt to benefit from the post.

[BiggErn]

> @rxk9fan said:

> I am sorry, but I don't understand much from a couple of post back. Not to be argumentative, but some sentences are not sentences and I don't understand the basis of the whole post. Let me ask for clarity of:

> "If a player that has specified issued yet has the ability to strike the ball center greater and more often, with a large offset club."

> "SO..... does the move benefit you and your intent or grovelling swing."

>

> I would like to better understand the intent so that if it applies to my OP, I can attempt to benefit from the post.

 

I don’t understand what you’re asking here but I’ll try. Plenty of great ball strikers use GI/CB clubs and for many reasons. A person can pound the sweet spot of a GI/CB with great frequency and it doesn’t meant they should graduate to an MB. Maybe they occasionally have an off ball striking stretch. Maybe they don’t have a ton of time to practice. Maybe someone has very slight but consistent miss. In the end there is nothing wrong with long, high, straight, and forgiving. Also contrary to popular belief by the MB clan you can work the ball as much as you need to and I’d wager about 99.9% of them couldn’t hit a shot you called out to them on demand. I’m sure there are some fine ball strikers playing MBs but I doubt many frequent these threads.

[ldandrea]

> @rxk9fan said:

> > @gbartko said:

> > I think it's easier for one to "want" blades to prove to be better than it is to "want" GI to prove to be better. Probably an ego thing but I'm no psychiatrist.

>

> No Psychiatrist needed here, my inner self says to get the numbers on the score card as small as possible. I have enough ego for sure, but what my clubs look like does not play to it. Shooting a high number is what gets my egos attention in a real hurry. In fact, if I could win the City Championship with the ugliest clubs on the course....that would make the win feel that much better!

> I am sure their are posers that want to play what their favorite pro plays. For me, I enjoy a low score way more than a pretty set.

>

>

 

I feel the same way. Many of the guys I play with wont hit game improvement irons because they done want the stigma or shit talk that goes with playing them. My thought is your going to hear the same crap when you take back to back triples so who cares.

[third-times-a-charm]

> @ldandrea said:

> > @rxk9fan said:

> > > @gbartko said:

> > > I think it's easier for one to "want" blades to prove to be better than it is to "want" GI to prove to be better. Probably an ego thing but I'm no psychiatrist.

> >

> > No Psychiatrist needed here, my inner self says to get the numbers on the score card as small as possible. I have enough ego for sure, but what my clubs look like does not play to it. Shooting a high number is what gets my egos attention in a real hurry. In fact, if I could win the City Championship with the ugliest clubs on the course....that would make the win feel that much better!

> > I am sure their are posers that want to play what their favorite pro plays. For me, I enjoy a low score way more than a pretty set.

> >

> >

>

> I feel the same way. Many of the guys I play with wont hit game improvement irons because they done want the stigma or **** talk that goes with playing them. My thought is your going to hear the same crap when you take back to back triples so who cares.

 

I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

 

Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

[Nessism]

> @third-times-a-charm said:

>

> I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

>

> Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

 

Do you play hickory?

 

 

[third-times-a-charm]

> @Nessism said:

> > @third-times-a-charm said:

> >

> > I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

> >

> > Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

>

> Do you play hickory?

>

>

 

No - Did you get that from the fly fishing comment? You're misconstruing that comparison.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @third-times-a-charm said:

> > @ldandrea said:

> > > @rxk9fan said:

> > > > @gbartko said:

> > > > I think it's easier for one to "want" blades to prove to be better than it is to "want" GI to prove to be better. Probably an ego thing but I'm no psychiatrist.

> > >

> > > No Psychiatrist needed here, my inner self says to get the numbers on the score card as small as possible. I have enough ego for sure, but what my clubs look like does not play to it. Shooting a high number is what gets my egos attention in a real hurry. In fact, if I could win the City Championship with the ugliest clubs on the course....that would make the win feel that much better!

> > > I am sure their are posers that want to play what their favorite pro plays. For me, I enjoy a low score way more than a pretty set.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I feel the same way. Many of the guys I play with wont hit game improvement irons because they done want the stigma or **** talk that goes with playing them. My thought is your going to hear the same crap when you take back to back triples so who cares.

>

> I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

>

> Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

Seems kind of dumb to me but ok. I'm sure you can tell the difference between your ProV/X/AVX though slapping it around however though.

[Tree Levino]

This is an interesting thread bump as I’m talking with another member right now about iron choice. I’m having no real issue gaming blades, but I know something with more help would make a difference. I had a few shots yesterday that were minuscule miss hits that ended up not being scoring opportunities. I also made a couple of shots that would be considered elite level - see flighted 6 iron to a front pin from 185 with a 5 yard opening guarded by two very mean bunkers. Put it to 5 feet and made par. This was after an errant tee shot. Just because I am capable of these shots and my HC is trending to low singles, does that mean I should be playing blades? Probably not. I think this because I also hit a couple the same day that would have been on the green with more help. Many of the guys on here that shoot over 90 say blades make no difference in scoring or different shot results but how can they know that if they aren’t elite ballstrikers? I’m not saying I am consistently, but I am certainly capable of some high level shots. My 78 yesterday would have been 76 or 77 with a club like AP2 - of that I am sure. That said, how can I pass of the feel of the MP5.

[third-times-a-charm]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @third-times-a-charm said:

> > > @ldandrea said:

> > > > @rxk9fan said:

> > > > > @gbartko said:

> > > > > I think it's easier for one to "want" blades to prove to be better than it is to "want" GI to prove to be better. Probably an ego thing but I'm no psychiatrist.

> > > >

> > > > No Psychiatrist needed here, my inner self says to get the numbers on the score card as small as possible. I have enough ego for sure, but what my clubs look like does not play to it. Shooting a high number is what gets my egos attention in a real hurry. In fact, if I could win the City Championship with the ugliest clubs on the course....that would make the win feel that much better!

> > > > I am sure their are posers that want to play what their favorite pro plays. For me, I enjoy a low score way more than a pretty set.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I feel the same way. Many of the guys I play with wont hit game improvement irons because they done want the stigma or **** talk that goes with playing them. My thought is your going to hear the same crap when you take back to back triples so who cares.

> >

> > I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

> >

> > Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

> Seems kind of dumb to me but ok. I'm sure you can tell the difference between your ProV/X/AVX though slapping it around however though.

 

Sure can.

 

Are you telling me your golf game lacks the feel to be able to tell between a rock hard Volvik and a Gamer Soft?

[Kingcat990]

All things considered, among all other variables included in your comparison, if you had both sets of irons with the same MOI iron per iron, if it would draw a better conclusion for you, since this game is mostly played between the ears.

[chisag]

... It is and always has been so simple. Hit the ball in the center 99% of the time and it doesn't matter what you play. Miss a little from time to time and a Players Iron will produce better results especially in mid and long irons. Miss the center regularly and get all the help you can with either a GI or SGI. In the last 10 years I have probably been paired up with 100 or more MB players and I can count on one hand how many reaped their potential using them. I have played with mini tour players and several D1 players trying to make it on the PGA Tour and none of them used MB's. Fwiw, Players CB's was the over whelming choice. As one said about his Titleist CB's "The mid and long irons give me the feel of a MB and the playability of a GI."

 

... In the end nobody really cares what you play or why you play it. You wanna make the game more difficult than it already is? Knock yourself out. You think that feel is more important than results? Impossible to argue with that and nobody would refute the feel of a dense solid forged MB struck well. So stop being such big babies seeking validation for your choice. _**If you want to play MB's you absolutely should for any reason that you choose.**_ But again, don't p!ss on our leg and tell us it is raining.

[tsecor]

> @rxk9fan said:

> I have played blades or small cavity back my entire life and have been involved with multiple threads where seasoned posters here pretty much say anyone can benefit from a GI and almost everyone should be playing one. I have defended my blade choice with consistent distances and small head, no offset, etc. for forever it seems. Then their points slowly made progression in my head and I thought, well how stupid of me if they are right and I can be better by just going to a GI. The pro GI movement is strong on WRX and technology/marketing is heavy from the OEM's. Yesterday I went to the course without my latest blades, the Srixon Z945. In their place was a brand new set of Mizuno Hot Metal Pros with my favorite Recoil stiff shafts. I was on my home course where I have been playing pretty well with my HC bouncing around the 7 to 8 mark.

> Looking down at the HMP was fine. Not much offset and not a huge head. I had hit them pretty darn good on Demo Day...they are long and straight. My problem was they are not very long and straight on the course when you have uneven lies and the player does not get them through the turf properly. At least in the beginning, this is a strike against the wider sole for me. I seemed to grab a tiny bit of the toe or heel before or while compressing the ball which we know does not work well.

> Then the gap between by AW(50 degree Vokey) and the new PW was a lot. My Vokey is my stock 100 yard shot and I can squeeze another 5 out of it when needed in the right conditions. The HMP PW seems to be my 130 club even though the loft is not stupid strong.

> Then comes the issue of feel which is subjective. I had no idea where I was hitting the HMP on the face. I have played a lot of Mizuno irons but let me say, if this were their only iron we would have never heard "Nothing feels like a Mizuno". They feel just like a ton of other irons out their IMO, and that is not a game breaker for me. I really don't have to have that forged blade feel, but I do want to know where I am hitting it on the face.

> Yesterday was day one on the course for my transition to a GI. I owe it to myself to put at least a month into this change because it is a substantial adjustment. Yesterday was my highest score in the last 18 months. I am not saying it was the fault of the irons. What I am saying is that the "game Improvement" in them not only could not rescue my bad play, but my perception was added to it.

> More time will tell but for now I miss my skinny v-soled blades that cut through turf like butter and let me know exactly where I hit them on the face. I did hit one pretty down hill 180 yard 7i but it did not get in the hole any quicker than my old 180 yard 5i would have :-).

>

 

> @rxk9fan said:

> I have played blades or small cavity back my entire life and have been involved with multiple threads where seasoned posters here pretty much say anyone can benefit from a GI and almost everyone should be playing one. I have defended my blade choice with consistent distances and small head, no offset, etc. for forever it seems. Then their points slowly made progression in my head and I thought, well how stupid of me if they are right and I can be better by just going to a GI. The pro GI movement is strong on WRX and technology/marketing is heavy from the OEM's. Yesterday I went to the course without my latest blades, the Srixon Z945. In their place was a brand new set of Mizuno Hot Metal Pros with my favorite Recoil stiff shafts. I was on my home course where I have been playing pretty well with my HC bouncing around the 7 to 8 mark.

> Looking down at the HMP was fine. Not much offset and not a huge head. I had hit them pretty darn good on Demo Day...they are long and straight. My problem was they are not very long and straight on the course when you have uneven lies and the player does not get them through the turf properly. At least in the beginning, this is a strike against the wider sole for me. I seemed to grab a tiny bit of the toe or heel before or while compressing the ball which we know does not work well.

> Then the gap between by AW(50 degree Vokey) and the new PW was a lot. My Vokey is my stock 100 yard shot and I can squeeze another 5 out of it when needed in the right conditions. The HMP PW seems to be my 130 club even though the loft is not stupid strong.

> Then comes the issue of feel which is subjective. I had no idea where I was hitting the HMP on the face. I have played a lot of Mizuno irons but let me say, if this were their only iron we would have never heard "Nothing feels like a Mizuno". They feel just like a ton of other irons out their IMO, and that is not a game breaker for me. I really don't have to have that forged blade feel, but I do want to know where I am hitting it on the face.

> Yesterday was day one on the course for my transition to a GI. I owe it to myself to put at least a month into this change because it is a substantial adjustment. Yesterday was my highest score in the last 18 months. I am not saying it was the fault of the irons. What I am saying is that the "game Improvement" in them not only could not rescue my bad play, but my perception was added to it.

> More time will tell but for now I miss my skinny v-soled blades that cut through turf like butter and let me know exactly where I hit them on the face. I did hit one pretty down hill 180 yard 7i but it did not get in the hole any quicker than my old 180 yard 5i would have :-).

>

Maybe you need SGI Irons with a sole so fat, you cant cut into the turf at all..... I play a 712 CB and am going to move to the T100 or the Mizzy MP-20 MMC if either of them work out. we'll see. I am not a GI club guy because i have never hit a GI club that actually improves my score....

 

[BiggErn]

> @third-times-a-charm said:

> > @ldandrea said:

> > > @rxk9fan said:

> > > > @gbartko said:

> > > > I think it's easier for one to "want" blades to prove to be better than it is to "want" GI to prove to be better. Probably an ego thing but I'm no psychiatrist.

> > >

> > > No Psychiatrist needed here, my inner self says to get the numbers on the score card as small as possible. I have enough ego for sure, but what my clubs look like does not play to it. Shooting a high number is what gets my egos attention in a real hurry. In fact, if I could win the City Championship with the ugliest clubs on the course....that would make the win feel that much better!

> > > I am sure their are posers that want to play what their favorite pro plays. For me, I enjoy a low score way more than a pretty set.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I feel the same way. Many of the guys I play with wont hit game improvement irons because they done want the stigma or **** talk that goes with playing them. My thought is your going to hear the same crap when you take back to back triples so who cares.

>

> I Would not play GI irons if it made me shoot in the 70's all day long as opposed to the 80s or more. Its just not the kind of golf I want to play and its not the kind of golfer I want to be.

>

> Theres a reason I fly fish instead of using conventional rods, too.

 

What’s that? A good golfer? Weak comparisons as well. Why not a simple cane pole?

[revanant]

Personally, I'd be curious to hear about how this experiment ended. I think @rxk9fan wound up back in the P770 based on his current signature--would be interested in hearing what he liked/didn't like about the HMP over time.

 

> @balls_deep said:

> This is an interesting thread bump as I’m talking with another member right now about iron choice. I’m having no real issue gaming blades, but I know something with more help would make a difference. I had a few shots yesterday that were minuscule miss hits that ended up not being scoring opportunities. I also made a couple of shots that would be considered elite level - see flighted 6 iron to a front pin from 185 with a 5 yard opening guarded by two very mean bunkers. Put it to 5 feet and made par. This was after an errant tee shot. Just because I am capable of these shots and my HC is trending to low singles, does that mean I should be playing blades? Probably not. I think this because I also hit a couple the same day that would have been on the green with more help. Many of the guys on here that shoot over 90 say blades make no difference in scoring or different shot results but how can they know that if they aren’t elite ballstrikers? I’m not saying I am consistently, but I am certainly capable of some high level shots. My 78 yesterday would have been 76 or 77 with a club like AP2 - of that I am sure. That said, how can I pass of the feel of the MP5.

 

I totally get a lot of this. Personally, my current answer for "what equipment should I use" is to put into play the equipment I feel most confident in and that I enjoy playing the most. But, what I like may lead other folks to serious misery; I don't mind what other folks play, either in real life or on here.

 

I think @balls_deep put out a great example, and highlighted part of what drives some of us crazy. He can look back at his round and see a few shots where he thinks a different iron would have led to a better score. But, he now has a great memory of an elite shot that he hit. If he can only have one, which should he choose? Or better yet, maybe there's an iron out there that will give him everything he wants--looks, feel, and performance? And so, the search continues. : )

...

Personally, I had a bit of an eye-opening experience recently with the P-790. I was fooling around and got it into a setup with the Modus 105 in a 7 iron head. The net result was a club that had high spin, high launch, and a little more ballspeed on good and bad strikes, such that on my best strikes I effectively was hitting my 7 iron about one half club longer and higher, but without sacrificing spin. Thin strikes were still only about 8 yards short of good strikes, with respect to carry. Toe strikes still lost a lot of distance.

 

If I take a step back and quantify it, what I would say is that if every iron performed like the 7 iron, there's definitely a benefit to having higher ball speed without losing backspin. Essentially, I had an extra 2 mph/ 5 yards of distance with a little higher spin and potentially a little more stopping power. But, for a true test, I'd need to compare the P790 against my irons in the same shaft--it's something I'd be interested to do once the MP20 MB launches.

 

In the meantime, I'm happily sticking with what's in the bag, and taking one more club. : )

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tree Levino]

> @revanant said:

> Personally, I'd be curious to hear about how this experiment ended. I think @rxk9fan wound up back in the P770 based on his current signature--would be interested in hearing what he liked/didn't like about the HMP over time.

>

> > @balls_deep said:

> > This is an interesting thread bump as I’m talking with another member right now about iron choice. I’m having no real issue gaming blades, but I know something with more help would make a difference. I had a few shots yesterday that were minuscule miss hits that ended up not being scoring opportunities. I also made a couple of shots that would be considered elite level - see flighted 6 iron to a front pin from 185 with a 5 yard opening guarded by two very mean bunkers. Put it to 5 feet and made par. This was after an errant tee shot. Just because I am capable of these shots and my HC is trending to low singles, does that mean I should be playing blades? Probably not. I think this because I also hit a couple the same day that would have been on the green with more help. Many of the guys on here that shoot over 90 say blades make no difference in scoring or different shot results but how can they know that if they aren’t elite ballstrikers? I’m not saying I am consistently, but I am certainly capable of some high level shots. My 78 yesterday would have been 76 or 77 with a club like AP2 - of that I am sure. That said, how can I pass of the feel of the MP5.

>

> I totally get a lot of this. Personally, my current answer for "what equipment should I use" is to put into play the equipment I feel most confident in and that I enjoy playing the most. But, what I like may lead other folks to serious misery; I don't mind what other folks play, either in real life or on here.

>

> I think @balls_deep put out a great example, and highlighted part of what drives some of us crazy. He can look back at his round and see a few shots where he thinks a different iron would have led to a better score. But, he now has a great memory of an elite shot that he hit. If he can only have one, which should he choose? Or better yet, maybe there's an iron out there that will give him everything he wants--looks, feel, and performance? And so, the search continues. : )

> ...

> Personally, I had a bit of an eye-opening experience recently with the P-790. I was fooling around and got it into a setup with the Modus 105 in a 7 iron head. The net result was a club that had high spin, high launch, and a little more ballspeed on good and bad strikes, such that on my best strikes I effectively was hitting my 7 iron about one half club longer and higher, but without sacrificing spin. Thin strikes were still only about 8 yards short of good strikes, with respect to carry. Toe strikes still lost a lot of distance.

>

> If I take a step back and quantify it, what I would say is that if every iron performed like the 7 iron, there's definitely a benefit to having higher ball speed without losing backspin. Essentially, I had an extra 2 mph/ 5 yards of distance with a little higher spin and potentially a little more stopping power. But, for a true test, I'd need to compare the P790 against my irons in the same shaft--it's something I'd be interested to do once the MP20 MB launches.

>

> In the meantime, I'm happily sticking with what's in the bag, and taking one more club. : )

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

Yes that is certainly where fitting makes a difference. The thing I worry about, and maybe part of the reason we see so many next to new clubs being sold on the BST trade, is that my performance on sims is not perfectly representative of how I perform outdoors. I live within an hour of TXG and could go for a fitting easily, I just worry that I will spend a boat load on clubs and outside I’m getting a different experience. To be clear, I don’t believe the argument that blades are more workable - they are not. As long as the iron has a thin enough sole (like AP2, CB, 919T) you have all of the workability and more miss hit protection. In the case of your 790 experience, I would say if you played those on course you would probably see a drastic increase in scoring potential. I have no doubt that you’d probably shoot in the 80s with those clubs nearly instantly. The distance loss with blades is real and it is undeniable. That doesn’t mean my experiment is over. I can play them and shoot in the 70s with them so it’s not killing my game. The thing is though, I hit driver 300 and if I need a super accurate tee shot my 3 wood is still 275 so I’m not having to hit a lot of testing long irons very often. In the end, I imagine I’ll end up in a slim players CB for the long term.