DG x7 spin too much

[GoTime]

and how is it you're getting 1.49 smash with an iron?

[Golfrnut]

> @Spongeb0b said:

> and how is it you're getting 1.49 smash with an iron?

 

High COR, low spin loft. Nothing unachieveable.

[Howard_Jones]

> @Dreamsofgolf said:

> > @chiva said:

> > Spin is your friend

>

> Maybe in a different climate, I play regularly in high winds(links courses) so IV found spin to be something to avoid. I see it all the time with great players who spin the ball too much and completely lose control once the ball reaches its max height and get blown around.

> The players that do well here all have very low penetrating flights.

> I have competed in Spain before and the opposite is true there as pretty much every day was calm or a bit breezy

 

> @Dreamsofgolf said:

> > @chiva said:

> > Spin is your friend

>

> Maybe in a different climate, I play regularly in high winds(links courses) so IV found spin to be something to avoid. I see it all the time with great players who spin the ball too much and completely lose control once the ball reaches its max height and get blown around.

> The players that do well here all have very low penetrating flights.

> I have competed in Spain before and the opposite is true there as pretty much every day was calm or a bit breezy

 

Ive been living on one o the best Golf Courses in Spain since 2016, a couse designed by the legend Jack Nicklaus in person, and i can tell you one thing, if that Trackman report was a 7 iron? you want be able to play close to your handicap with that amount of spin, you will find you ball in the lake or in a bunker...trust me, ive been making equipment for both European PGA and LPGA players on the highest level, and 7500 for a #7 iron like AP2 on that club speed is just as expected.

 

If that report was a #7 iron, Flightscope optimizer say roll out on a fast fairway becomes 15.2 yards, and thats acceptable for a 3 iron, never a #7.

 

For typical European conditions, (better courses), with 7-10 m/sec of wind, you NEED this stopping power to make it.

PW - full stop

#9 max 2 meters

#8 max 4 meters

#6 max 6 meters

#5 max 8 meters

#4 max 10 meters

#3 max 12 meters or about 13 yards, if you cant stop your #3 iron on that distance, never go after the greens here with it, then it becomes a distance club, and quite useless on long par 3 holes, what shall you use then?

 

About PTR or Smash factor and irons it can be explained.

First of all, not even Trackman is 100% on everything, but close, but we should be able to trust BALL SPEED as "accurate", so the factor that could be judged wrong is Club speed, meaning it might have been higher than the return value, and that means actual PTR value is lower. The highest PTR ive seen on my Trackman for a IRON with a NON - HIGH COR Face is 1.50 with 21* loft. The club head was Titleist CB 710 #3, shaft was DG TI X100 #3, a 20 yr old Danish PGA pro back then.

 

Next who explains the high PTR value is head position at impact. He makes impact with a face angle thats almost square to path, so this ball flight will have no tilt on the spin axis from a center of the face impact, all energy is used for ball speed, launch and back spin, and he makes impact about the bottom of the swing where head path (the club heads COG) and target comes "in line", so again we have a "pure power transfer vs direction", and no energy goes lost from any sources.

 

At this club speed, a pure impact like that will cause maximized ball compression = Low launch, so the higher ball compression is, the lower is the ratio from Loft to Launch angle., but a AP2 head will spin a lot on this club speed unless lofts is taken down, i would have tried that before i gave up on them.

[MountainKing]

> @Golfrnut said:

> > @Spongeb0b said:

> > and how is it you're getting 1.49 smash with an iron?

>

> High COR, low spin loft. Nothing unachieveable.

 

For sure but those numbers don't look possible with a 4 iron, the numbers look more like something you'd see with a driver. They make sense and work out for a driver, not a 4 iron. Then again, why would somebody come on here and lie about something meaningless.

 

Food for thought, PGA avg smash factor with a 4iron is 1.43.

[Golfrnut]

> @MountainKing said:

> > @Golfrnut said:

> > > @Spongeb0b said:

> > > and how is it you're getting 1.49 smash with an iron?

> >

> > High COR, low spin loft. Nothing unachieveable.

>

> For sure but those numbers don't look possible with a 4 iron, the numbers look more like something you'd see with a driver. They make sense and work out for a driver, not a 4 iron. Then again, why would somebody come on here and lie about something meaningless.

>

> Food for thought, PGA avg smash factor with a 4iron is 1.43.

 

Comparing a strong lofted/high COR iron against the PGA tour average really isn’t really a fair comparison

 

[Hack Daddy]

So where are we at with this?

Is OP lying? Truth? Sadlowski's little brother?

[Krt22]

> @Golfrnut said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > > @Golfrnut said:

> > > > @Spongeb0b said:

> > > > and how is it you're getting 1.49 smash with an iron?

> > >

> > > High COR, low spin loft. Nothing unachieveable.

> >

> > For sure but those numbers don't look possible with a 4 iron, the numbers look more like something you'd see with a driver. They make sense and work out for a driver, not a 4 iron. Then again, why would somebody come on here and lie about something meaningless.

> >

> > Food for thought, PGA avg smash factor with a 4iron is 1.43.

>

> Comparing a strong lofted/high COR iron against the PGA tour average really isn’t really a fair comparison

>

 

Indeed, also need to look at AoA. He is hitting those things damn near level with lower spin while tour players hit more down with higher spin since they are more interested in controlling distance than they are in max distance.

[Dreamsofgolf]

> @pinhigh27 said:

> > @Dreamsofgolf said:

> > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > @BM5D said:

> > > > > @Dreamsofgolf said:

> > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > Most likely the head design difference, but if you're hitting a different shaft better then it's well worth testing it further, even if it's not a flex and weight you would normally assume would fit

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeh i I'll try out some different configurations tomorrow and see how i get on. Head design is more influential than I thought.

> > > > > > @"Howard Jones" said:

> > > > > > > @Cwebb said:

> > > > > > > Most likely the head design difference, but if you're hitting a different shaft better then it's well worth testing it further, even if it's not a flex and weight you would normally assume would fit

> > > > > >

> > > > > > His spin level is not unexpected at 95 mph with a #7 iron, but AP2 is both high launch and spin, on the other hand, 5500 rpms of spin from a #7 iron on that club speed is too little unless you get a descent angle up in the area of 50, if not you want be able to stop the ball on the green, and with a #7 iron, we should not have much roll, so dont get blinded of distance alone, look at both dispersion and stopping power.

> > > > >

> > > > > I didn't so my homework when I got the ap2's as I didn't realise they were a high launch hi spin.. i will try them on the course tomorrow along with some others to get a better idea of how they play as trackman numbers only tell half the story. Your right about stopping the ball as I play alot of links golf with firm greens so that is a very important part, I think my launch and height should still be able to hold the green but I won't know till I experiment > @Valtiel said:

> > > > > > Yeah it is not likely that the shafts themselves are causing any spin problems, rather what is happening with your swing as a result of either their stiffness or weight. X7's are extremely similar to Project X 7.0's and are some of the absolute stiffest shafts you can buy. At 95mph you are not overpowering the shaft, therefore it is not adding the extra dynamic loft necessary to create more spin, something else is going on. As Cwebb said, head design also probably plays a factor as well, but it would be worth trying out a different, lighter shaft in one of your AP2's to see what the difference is.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think my lack of strength now Vs when I got the shafts plays a big part with the weight. I am going to try some lighter shafts and keep hold of the x7s for when I get my strength back up

> > > > > Regarding head designs I have just been reading up on the p790s (speedfoam, hollow cavity etc) and seems the was design can have a big influence on distance and spin not just the loft! > @chiva said:

> > > > > > Head design IS the #1 factor.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think you are right! Certainly seems that way from the comments and the bit of reading if done since I posted.. I just thought in terms of blades, mbs, cavity backs but alot more goes into the designs.>

> > > > > @BM5D said:

> > > > > > I'd question the simulator numbers and/or the lofts. You aren't hitting a 4 iron 255 with a 95mph 7 iron swing. Secondly you should pay attention to the spin loft because you might be flipping at impact to get that much spin with a 7.

> > > > > We have a trackman 4 so it's about a accurate as you can get. With the lighter shafts I was averaging 98mph, if I went flat out it was around the 101mph by I rarely ever hit a 7 iron that hard. The x7s are ABIT heavy for me now so can't generate as much speed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Interesting the 4 iron I hit 255 was only 101mph. But IV never and a smas factor like that with an iron!

> > > > > I hit some with 103/4 speeds that didn't go any further.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the comments, very knowledgeable group of guys here .. I will look forward to tinkering tomorrow and get a new set in play..

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Trackman produces misreads indoors all the time. Outdoors it's much more accurate. That is a misread. You aren't getting 1.49 smash with a 4 iron and the spin is artificially low.

> > >

> > > Those look more like driver numbers with the dynamic loft, launch angle, smash factor (I'm not even sure 1.49 is possible with an iron??)

> > >

> > > Anyway, 5500 is not enough spin for a 7 iron, better with irons to error a little over than under.

> >

> > Why is 5500 not enough spin for a 7 iron? If I can still launch it high and get a steep descent? Just curious to know.

> > I have a friend who fits clubs for a living and he suggested that I should be looking for 1000rpm under the iron(6000 for a 7iron, 3000 for a 4 iron) to produce the shots im looking for and to stop the ball spinning up.

> >

> > Again this isn't my area of expertise, just looking to expand my knowledge

> >

> > Regarding the low high SF, that's just the difference in club and ball speed so surely if you have a hot faced iron( hollow,speedfoam,strong lofts) it would be able to come off the face very fast particularly with a high club head speed

>

> That's too low of spin. 5500 with your speed isn't going to stop. It's going to bounce and roll probably. If anything you should be over 7000.

 

I see your point. > @chiva said:

> > @Dreamsofgolf said:

> > > @chiva said:

> > > Spin is your friend

> >

> > Maybe in a different climate, I play regularly in high winds(links courses) so IV found spin to be something to avoid. I see it all the time with great players who spin the ball too much and completely lose control once the ball reaches its max height and get blown around.

> > The players that do well here all have very low penetrating flights.

> > I have competed in Spain before and the opposite is true there as pretty much every day was calm or a bit breezy

>

> Not to sound condescending, but that’s why you hit a knockdown shot. A little “3” fingered shot to take something off it and control the trajectory and spin. Almost never a full swing into the > @"Howard Jones" said:

> > @Dreamsofgolf said:

> > > @chiva said:

> > > Spin is your friend

> >

> > Maybe in a different climate, I play regularly in high winds(links courses) so IV found spin to be something to avoid. I see it all the time with great players who spin the ball too much and completely lose control once the ball reaches its max height and get blown around.

> > The players that do well here all have very low penetrating flights.

> > I have competed in Spain before and the opposite is true there as pretty much every day was calm or a bit breezy

>

> > @Dreamsofgolf said:

> > > @chiva said:

> > > Spin is your friend

> >

> > Maybe in a different climate, I play regularly in high winds(links courses) so IV found spin to be something to avoid. I see it all the time with great players who spin the ball too much and completely lose control once the ball reaches its max height and get blown around.

> > The players that do well here all have very low penetrating flights.

> > I have competed in Spain before and the opposite is true there as pretty much every day was calm or a bit breezy

>

> Ive been living on one o the best Golf Courses in Spain since 2016, a couse designed by the legend Jack Nicklaus in person, and i can tell you one thing, if that Trackman report was a 7 iron? you want be able to play close to your handicap with that amount of spin, you will find you ball in the lake or in a bunker...trust me, ive been making equipment for both European PGA and LPGA players on the highest level, and 7500 for a #7 iron like AP2 on that club speed is just as expected.

>

> If that report was a #7 iron, Flightscope optimizer say roll out on a fast fairway becomes 15.2 yards, and thats acceptable for a 3 iron, never a #7.

>

> For typical European conditions, (better courses), with 7-10 m/sec of wind, you NEED this stopping power to make it.

> PW - full stop

> #9 max 2 meters

> #8 max 4 meters

> #6 max 6 meters

> #5 max 8 meters

> #4 max 10 meters

> #3 max 12 meters or about 13 yards, if you cant stop your #3 iron on that distance, never go after the greens here with it, then it becomes a distance club, and quite useless on long par 3 holes, what shall you use then?

>

> About PTR or Smash factor and irons it can be explained.

> First of all, not even Trackman is 100% on everything, but close, but we should be able to trust BALL SPEED as "accurate", so the factor that could be judged wrong is Club speed, meaning it might have been higher than the return value, and that means actual PTR value is lower. The highest PTR ive seen on my Trackman for a IRON with a NON - HIGH COR Face is 1.50 with 21* loft. The club head was Titleist CB 710 #3, shaft was DG TI X100 #3, a 20 yr old Danish PGA pro back then.

>

> Next who explains the high PTR value is head position at impact. He makes impact with a face angle thats almost square to path, so this ball flight will have no tilt on the spin axis from a center of the face impact, all energy is used for ball speed, launch and back spin, and he makes impact about the bottom of the swing where head path (the club heads COG) and target comes "in line", so again we have a "pure power transfer vs direction", and no energy goes lost from any sources.

>

> At this club speed, a pure impact like that will cause maximized ball compression = Low launch, so the higher ball compression is, the lower is the ratio from Loft to Launch angle., but a AP2 head will spin a lot on this club speed unless lofts is taken down, i would have tried that before i gave up on them.

 

Is it la Torre you are at? I have played there and I found the greens to be grainy and soft, could hit a full w

[Dreamsofgolf]

*couldn't hit a full wedge into a green without it spinning off the front . This has been my experience at most of the courses I have played in Spain . But I'm sure there might be some with firm greens.

Good explanation of the science behind the smash factor. Not given up on the ap2's yet, will deloft them and see how I go.

As I said, it is the heavy shafts i am having trouble generating speed with so I am going back to lighter shafts until my strength is back. I was getting on well with the x100 SL's today, what are your thoughts on this shaft?

[Dreamsofgolf]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @Golfrnut said:

> > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > @Golfrnut said:

> > > > > @Spongeb0b said:

> > > > > and how is it you're getting 1.49 smash with an iron?

> > > >

> > > > High COR, low spin loft. Nothing unachieveable.

> > >

> > > For sure but those numbers don't look possible with a 4 iron, the numbers look more like something you'd see with a driver. They make sense and work out for a driver, not a 4 iron. Then again, why would somebody come on here and lie about something meaningless.

> > >

> > > Food for thought, PGA avg smash factor with a 4iron is 1.43.

> >

> > Comparing a strong lofted/high COR iron against the PGA tour average really isn’t really a fair comparison

> >

>

> Indeed, also need to look at AoA. He is hitting those things **** near level with lower spin while tour players hit more down with higher spin since they are more interested in controlling distance than they are in max distance.

 

The tour average AoA is -1.7 for a 4 iron so my -1.1 isn't to far away from that..

I also didn't have max distance in mind when hitting that shot. I could have got more out of it distance wise but don't like swinging as fast as I can with any iron

Also, that is not my club and not my normal numbers

[Dreamsofgolf]

> @MountainKing said:

> > @Golfrnut said:

> > > @Spongeb0b said:

> > > and how is it you're getting 1.49 smash with an iron?

> >

> > High COR, low spin loft. Nothing unachieveable.

>

> For sure but those numbers don't look possible with a 4 iron, the numbers look more like something you'd see with a driver. They make sense and work out for a driver, not a 4 iron. Then again, why would somebody come on here and lie about something meaningless.

>

> Food for thought, PGA avg smash factor with a 4iron is 1.43.

 

Thankfully that isn't my driver I am hitting on that trackman picture. I know of several people who also hit a 4 iron 235ish , now give any of them a p790 (which is really a 3 iron compared to tour lofts) and they would likely produce similiar numbers

 

[Dreamsofgolf]

> @Golfrnut said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > > @Golfrnut said:

> > > > @Spongeb0b said:

> > > > and how is it you're getting 1.49 smash with an iron?

> > >

> > > High COR, low spin loft. Nothing unachieveable.

> >

> > For sure but those numbers don't look possible with a 4 iron, the numbers look more like something you'd see with a driver. They make sense and work out for a driver, not a 4 iron. Then again, why would somebody come on here and lie about something meaningless.

> >

> > Food for thought, PGA avg smash factor with a 4iron is 1.43.

>

> Comparing a strong lofted/high COR iron against the PGA tour average really isn’t really a fair comparison

>

 

Great point

[Krt22]

> @Dreamsofgolf said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @Golfrnut said:

> > > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > > @Golfrnut said:

> > > > > > @Spongeb0b said:

> > > > > > and how is it you're getting 1.49 smash with an iron?

> > > > >

> > > > > High COR, low spin loft. Nothing unachieveable.

> > > >

> > > > For sure but those numbers don't look possible with a 4 iron, the numbers look more like something you'd see with a driver. They make sense and work out for a driver, not a 4 iron. Then again, why would somebody come on here and lie about something meaningless.

> > > >

> > > > Food for thought, PGA avg smash factor with a 4iron is 1.43.

> > >

> > > Comparing a strong lofted/high COR iron against the PGA tour average really isn’t really a fair comparison

> > >

> >

> > Indeed, also need to look at AoA. He is hitting those things **** near level with lower spin while tour players hit more down with higher spin since they are more interested in controlling distance than they are in max distance.

>

> The tour average AoA is -1.7 for a 4 iron so my -1.1 isn't to far away from that..

> I also didn't have max distance in mind when hitting that shot. I could have got more out of it distance wise but don't like swinging as fast as I can with any iron

> Also, that is not my club and not my normal numbers

 

Closer to -4 and likely more for the higher speed guys

[Howard_Jones]

@DreamsofGolf.

La Torre is not a good course (IMO), im living on Jack Niklaus Signature Course, the Condado de Alhama, its a desert style course, and quite different from La Torre who looks like a city park in between some houses. If one of you ever get to this area, this course is a must play, it was designed to arrange European PGA tournaments, but the Hotel needed was never built, so they will never come, but professionals from all over the world is using the place as training camp since the course is fantastic, but the tempo around it layed back, so they feel comfortable coming here for practice rounds, often large groups like national teams who is here quite often.

 

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=c0MMXZfnOIWxrgTAs6iIAg&q=Jack+Niclaus+signature+course+Alhama+de+murcia&oq=Jack+Niclaus+signature+course+Alhama+de+murcia&gs_l=img.3...38834.61889..64012...2.0..1.1071.8759.2j24j1j2j0j1j2j2......0....1..gws-wiz-img.....0..35i39j0i67j0j0i30.G3Ho-mD_Awg