SEX Change? Should men be allowed to play in Womens

[christhebigsmokemoss]

Events after a sex change?

The long drive finals were held last week, and the USGA ruled in favour for a competitor to compete after a sex change in the ladies division. I also know of the same ruling for the ladies European Tour.

I would like to know what everyone thinks of this, not just for golf but all sports.

This is not a sexist topic, but a valid topic for open discussion, so please do not comment unless you have something worthwhile to say.

[wedgetoafoot]

I would say no. The operation doesn't change the bone structure and muscle make up of the person as well, but it would probably be pretty awkward for the person to still have to play mens events after the operation.

[DaveyH]

it is illegal for the person not to.

when you have a sex change your personal data is changed and you are now classed as a woman..

if you cant play thats sex descrimination and im sure the players case would win.

[bstevens2008]

NO, DNA. change your dna and then yes.

[DaveyH]

NO, DNA. change your dna and then yes.

If you have a sex change it IS OFFICIAL

you are officially a woman if you have a sex change..

therefore sex descrimination

i did this in law class last week about a similar case where a male transexual was applying to join a womens football team in the wpl and she/he won.

[christhebigsmokemoss]

The human rights card! I hate it, but thats a different chat for a different place (Pub Chatter). But i know what you mean the world these days would pull this card, but just because it may say on their personal data that they are now a woman if does not effect their make up (excuss the punn) i.e. the skelton and muscle mass.

[DaveyH]

muscle mass doesnt prevent you from being able to play on the womens tour.

its all about equal rights regardless of stature and muscle or how far this he/she hits it.

they are still legally recognised as a woman.

Just because they have a bigger muscle mass and body doesnt mean theyll be any better at putting.

[christhebigsmokemoss]

She doesnt have to putt when competing for long driving!

Muscle mass helps quite a bit when it comes to smashing the ball over 300!

[JDorfler]

I would say no. The operation doesn't change the bone structure and muscle make up of the person as well, but it would probably be pretty awkward for the person to still have to play mens events after the operation.

 

Actually it changes a lot. Bone structure, no. But due to the hormone replacement, and smaller amounts of testosterone the body loses a lot of muscle mass and becomes more feminine. I wouldn't know why someone would want to do this, but biologically a man that becomes a woman can be considered way more female than a real female due to the amount of estrogen pumped into the body.

[bstevens2008]

NO, DNA. change your dna and then yes.

If you have a sex change it IS OFFICIAL

you are officially a woman if you have a sex change..

therefore sex descrimination

i did this in law class last week about a similar case where a male transexual was applying to join a womens football team in the wpl and she/he won.

 

read the original question and post. "What do you think?" I am not sure what either the pga or lpga has in their by-laws, regarding born a female or born a male. It's like running for President of the U.S. you must be born in the U.S. Not sure but they might have something that says you must be born a female. It's a private company, not a state funded school.

[christhebigsmokemoss]

Agreed, but consider this: what happens when she wants to increase her distance a little; all she has to do is stop taking the injections and start working out. I think it is stupid that the tours have allowed this, they dont know where its going to end.

 

Are drug tests going to include hormone levle checks for the women?

[JDorfler]

Agreed, but consider this: what happens when she want to increase her distance a little; all she has to do is stop taking the injections and start working out. I think it is stupid that the tours have allowed this, they dont know where its going to end.

 

Are drug tests going to include hormone levle checks for the women?

 

In this case, they should.

[DaveyH]

my posts are what i think encorporating the law.

The putt thing was a joke!!

If the other women dont like it maybe they should train harder!

If they did that it every sport and bickered because someone was better and built stronger i dont think boxing would exist along with a few other sports.

[christhebigsmokemoss]

If the other women dont like it maybe they should train harder!

If they did that it every sport and bickered because someone was better and built stronger i dont think boxing would exist along with a few other sports.

 

Slight advantage though dont you think!

[DaveyH]

it is but a woman is a woman

both have equal rights im sure if there wasn't the legal aspect to deal with the ''woman'' wouldnt be able to compete.

[bstevens2008]

it is but a woman is a woman

both have equal rights im sure if there wasn't the legal aspect to deal with the ''woman'' wouldnt be able to compete.

 

women is a women, O.K. sex change women give birth!

[hoganfan924]

it is but a woman is a woman

both have equal rights im sure if there wasn't the legal aspect to deal with the ''woman'' wouldnt be able to compete.

 

Indeed, but I believe there is a very strong case for the definition of a woman being based on Chromosomes, not genetalia and synthetic hormones. So if the person has two X chromosomes they're a woman. How do you classify hermaphrodites? Should they be legally allowed to be both male and female?

What about boys who accidentally had their penises severed in circumcision accidents (there have been reported cases) that were then castrated and converted as infants to female genitalia? What are they? What if they "feel" like they are still men when they grow up? (I have seen reports of such a case).

What about pre-surgical transsexuals? (they can always change their minds and stop taking their hormones)

What about people who have a sex change and then change back again (but don't change their "legal" gender)? (seen a case of this on TV a few years ago)

 

Where do you draw the line?

 

If people are willing to take performance enhancing drugs knowing that it could severely shorten their lives, why should we not think that a very good male golfer (say top mini-tour player) wouldn't resort to a sex change for an edge and a chance to play on the LPGA? It only takes one.

 

If chromosome testing is the standard, then these gray areas are no longer gray.

[victor2000]

it is but a woman is a woman

both have equal rights im sure if there wasn't the legal aspect to deal with the ''woman'' wouldnt be able to compete.

 

women is a women, O.K. sex change women give birth!

 

From a legal perspective, you might be right but we all know that laws are the lowest form of ethics. I guess my question is this, "If a woman is a woman, would you date this "woman""????

 

If you say yes, then I am willing to admit that I may be wrong.

[EnglishBob]

If you have a sex change it IS OFFICIAL

you are officially a woman if you have a sex change..

therefore sex descrimination

i did this in law class last week about a similar case where a male transexual was applying to join a womens football team in the wpl and she/he won.

 

That may be true in the US, but in the UK, a gender transformation does not make you legally a woman. Men who have had the chop go to MALE prisons, not womens.

 

The Olympics will also not allow someone to compete under a different sex to which they were born.

[idrive400yards]

Having that sex change really didn't help, he/she still lost to a "real" female competitor. There were quite a few callouts when this person hit.

[Viking Golfer]

We have a danish man/lady, that plays on the Ladies European Tour - she used to be a he:

 

http://www.ladieseuropeantour.info/profiles/120149.htm

 

Mianne Bagger is her name.

 

[handmadeaddicted]

I loved asking a few guys at work if she was hot then revealing she was a dude before.

[oregongolf]

I loved asking a few guys at work if she was hot then revealing she was a dude before.

LOL

 

:cheesy:

 

:good:

 

:cheesy:

 

How mean... but terribly funny.

[gentles]

hahahaha, there was a reality show about that wasn't there? "There's Something About Miriam"

 

I bet you can't guess what the 'something" is.... :good:

[Viking Golfer]

hahahaha, there was a reality show about that wasn't there? "There's Something About Miriam"

 

I bet you can't guess what the 'something" is.... :cheesy:

 

Yeahhh....but the Mianne Bagger has nothing to do with the girl Mirian in the soap - Mirian actually looked great.......model potential......but with a tap :good: :cheesy:

Mianne Bagger has no tap anymore......... :cheesy:

[christhebigsmokemoss]

She didnt win, but almost did, was knocked out in the semis after hitting 313! If she won, it would discrace the sport. All she has to do is work out a wee bit and she will be winning it next year!

 

WRONG! Sod what the laws and rights say, you should only be allowed to play with what youve got!

[d0n]

Theres a documentary on the National Geographic Channel about the/a former Thailand kickboxing champion who had a sex change. Once he turned into she, she was no longer allowed to compete in any class. Within a short period of time a lot of her muscle mass and strength were gone due to the change.

 

Google'd it and found this story/summary:

 

He is now a she. In real life, Nong Toom’s dream has come true after undergoing a sex-change operation in 1999.

 

Now a model, actress and Muay Thai teacher based in Bangkok, Nong Toom can no longer fight in the ring as women are not allowed in professional boxing rings for men in Thailand.

 

Born into a poor family of nomads, Nong Toom spent his childhood traveling around the country with his family before settling down in Chiangmai province in the Northern part of Thailand. Prior to his big match in Bangkok in February 1998, he'd won 20 out of 22 matches in many provinces. He's feared by his opponents for his trademark swooping kicks, flying elbows and stinging uppercuts. His deadly prowess in the ring made it hard for the public to understand his ambition of becoming a woman.

 

Undoubtedly one of Thailand's best known kickboxers, Nong Toom is admired by many for his courage and despised by others who accused him of tarnishing the masculine image of Thai kickboxing.

[larrybud]

it is but a woman is a woman

both have equal rights im sure if there wasn't the legal aspect to deal with the ''woman'' wouldnt be able to compete.

 

Legally she might be a woman, but biologically, she's not. She still has the XY cromosome, thus, is biologically still a man.

 

At what point do you believe that the man becomes the woman? When the unit is cut off? When estrogen levels get to a certain point?

 

There needs to be an OBJECTIVE standard. The chromosomes are an objective measure.

[Debit]

There have been a few law suits claiming discrimination when someone who has had sex-change surgery has applied for membership/participation in a women's only competition. The verdicts have pretty much overturned the "female by birth" or "born female" clauses among the qualifications. It was explained (at length) elsewhere that, due to the hormone treatment required, after two years an individual that has undergone sex change no longer possesses the muscle mass, and her skeleton actually becomes lighter and less dense. I cannot imagine anyone being so stupid and boneheaded as to undergo this kind of mutilating surgery, intense psychiatric examination, and the risks of hormone therapy (stroke, heart attack, breast cancer) just to be able to maybe play women's sports. Personally, I have my doubts, that such an individual should be allowed to compete against those of us born female.

[BEND OF THE RIVER GC]

Very simple yet confusing. If Michelle Wie can play in Men's events than a woman, who WA