Do you throw or twist?

[GreatStrike]

Ric,

 

Hand-eye-coordination is definitely important but it is crucially important with a 'swinging' action golf swing. The reason why hand-eye-coordination is so important with a 'swinging' action golf swing is because a 'swinging' action requires the golfer to have perfect timing of the [so-called] "release". That timing makes the difference between a good or decent strike and a miserable strike. When you 'swing' a golf club it is the timing of the "release" or uncocking of the flail (lever) that is critical. Do it (or force it) too soon and you cast with dead clubhead speed or you flip or hit fat. Do it too late (by holding back) and you have dead clubhead speed or block it with an open clubface. This is why a 'swinging' action golf swing takes so much work and constant maintenance to maintain the feel and perfect timing that is needed.

 

Some of us humans are better at timing the release than others are. Mechanical robots, like Iron Byron or PING Man, have a totally passive lever joint so its "release" is always perfectly timed. For us humans however, combine a healthy dose of a dominant right hand hit to the swinger's action "release" and chances of a decent strike fall to near zero. Why is that? Because a 'swinging' golf swing action requires a passive "release" of the lever but attempting to add some hit force with the dominant right hand totally destroys a swinging action. It would be like swinging a weight around on the end of a string with your left hand and then suddenly adding right hand force and movement action - the result of which is complete destruction of an orbiting object and total swing discombobulation. 

 

So, to your point of inquiry, Ric, this is why a 'hitting' action in which the dominant side and hand controls the force and the force direction (without the need of a passive "release" like is needed with a 'swinging' action) is far easier to learn and to keep in good form. Most everybody has the innate ability to perfectly 'time' our maximum 'hitting' action force using their dominant side arm/hand. This is true whether we are using a hammer to drive a nail into wood or to connect with a forceful, thrusting right hand cross to someone's head in a boxing ring...or slap our hand against a wall or to return a volleyball over the net...  

 

If your swing tempo resembles a pendulum motion you aren't getting the benefit of the dominant side/hand hitting force. If your swing is spoiled when you try to add dominant side/hand hitting force, you are most likely attempting to use a 'swinging' action but the dominant side hit force interferes with the swing action and totally destroys it. You need to pick one method - either a 'swinging' action  or a 'hitting' action. Trying to use both actions is the curse of amateur golfers and never works out well.     

 

                         

Edited April 17, 2023 by GreatStrike
orthography

[GreatStrike]

@eddie3392 - Eddie, yes!  Holding that until it releases itself through impact is a way to accomplish it. It's not for everyone, but as a lefty playing right-handed it sounds like it works for you...

 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by GreatStrike
orthography

[jcrews5508]

Having spent years modeling my swing after Adam Scott, Tiger and Rory can you confirm which pattern they tend to fall more into. I work a lot with AMG but have recently started following Tyler Farrell so I want to confirm their teachings are the same. I’ve been taught for years to supinate and shake hands with the target but have also had just a touch of early extension/breakdown of the left wrist just at impact or slightly before but still play pretty well with a draw or sometimes a pull. Starting to think it’s a supination issue from using shoulders too much closing the face too rapidly. 
 

My confusion really stems from looking at the best players post impact on video. It seems a lot of what is promoted here is that the right wrist should maintain some extension post impact but what I see really at p8 almost exclusively is a flat or slightly bowed right wrist that stays in the manner till the end of the follow through. Maybe this is because I’m looking 2d or maybe it’s just that their speed is so great that the extension comes out faster but it’s really confusing. Also looking at hackmotion data it appears most Pros left wrist gets to extension fairly quickly post impact which also does pair not well with an extended right wrist. 
 

Release has always been a mystery to me and while I’ve gotten much better I would still say I don’t fully understand it. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by jcrews5508

[GreatStrike]

1 hour ago, jcrews5508 said:

Having spent years modeling my swing after Adam Scott, Tiger and Rory can you confirm which pattern they tend to fall more into. I work a lot with AMG but have recently started following Tyler Farrell so I want to confirm their teachings are the same. I’ve been taught for years to supinate and shake hands with the target but have also had just a touch of early extension/breakdown of the left wrist just at impact or slightly before but still play pretty well with a draw or sometimes

a pull. Starting to think it’s a supination issue from using shoulders too much closing the face too rapidly. 
 

my confusion really stems from looking at the best players post impact. It seems a lot of what is promoted here is that the right wrist should maintain some extension post impact but what I see really at p8 almost exclusively is a flat or slightly bowed right wrist that stays in the manner till the end of the follow through. Maybe this is because I’m looking 2d or maybe it’s just that their speed is so great that the extension comes out faster but it’s really confusing. Also looking at hackmotion data it appears most Pros left wrist gets extension fairly quickly post impact which also does pair not well with an extended right wrist. 
 

Release has always been a mystery to me  and while I’ve gotten much better I would still say I don’t fully understand it. 

 

You'll have to inquire with AMG and Tyler Farrell to learn if their teachings are the same. 

 

You'll typically see a slightly bowed right wrist at post impact with a 'hitting' action where clubhead rotates only a half turn as it is powered and controlled by the right arm/hand. Left wrist extension it typical with handicap amateurs but an elite player with left wrist extension is usually indicative of a passive 'swinging' action swing.    

[jcrews5508]

Where would Adam Scott fall on the release spectrum? 

[GreatStrike]

On 4/19/2023 at 7:10 PM, jcrews5508 said:

Where would Adam Scott fall on the release spectrum? 

 

@jcrews5508, 

 

I would say that Adam Scott powers his golf swing and controls his clubface with his dominant side right arm/hand and uses opposing force of/from his non-dominant left arm/hand beautifully for a wonderfully formed backstroke and likewise to create his wide unhurried downstroke arc. Note that Adam's swing doesn't have a lot of clubshaft/clubface rotation, which is indicative of powering the swing with a 'hitting' action that drives the clubshaft/handle and clubface as opposed to a 'swinging' action with lots of quick lead arm and clubshaft/clubface rotation. His 'hitting' action means he'll rarely hit a shot far offline or with too much unintended curve. Note in the slow motion video how little lead arm and clubshaft/clubface rotation there is in the late downstroke though the impact zone - maybe a half turn depending on his shot shape and trajectory  Adam's golf swing action produces an unhurried, wonderfully smooth swing with a lot of force on the golf ball that really compress it. It's one of the most admirable and best golf swings, no doubt...            

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by GreatStrike
orthography

[GreatStrike]

 

Luke,

 

Thanks for the message. 

 

When you try to swing a golf club the way most teach the golf swing you are expected to use primarily your lead, non-dominant, side. Your relatively weak and less coordinated left arm and hand is called on to control the golf club, which includes control of the clubface. Most people can easily imagine the inferior results of trying to swing a golf club with just the non-dominant, left side while trying to keep the dominant right side at bay. For most people it just doesn't work! A golfer that can't control the clubface isn't going to play or score well. 

 

It's no wonder why people's stronger right side tries to take over from the weaker side, which causes all sorts of problems like swinging over-the-top, casting, flipping, not being able to square the clubface, etc.

 

So, why not use a 'hitting' action to swing the golf club by using your stronger and better coordinated right side against the resisting opposition force from your weaker left side? This actually makes perfect sense from a Kinesiology standpoint. 

 

I hope you find that pushing away with the trail arm against the resisting opposition force of the weaker left hand is a magical and valuable method that literally guides the hands and club on the proper arc path without intervention or manipulation while keeping the left arm straight. The key to using this opposing force is having the proper connection of your right hand's lifeline on the upper base of your left thumb. Let's see if it has the effect that most people get when making the change to a much preferred 'hitting' action.

 

Here's a video to help you understand how pushing the trail arm against the left thumb accomplishes this.

 

 

I suggest giving the 'hitting' action method a try. You don't need to be concerned with forearm rotation or squaring the clubface because your dominant right arm/hand is much better able deliver the clubface precisely as desired on the ball, being so much more highly skilled.

 

With a 'hitting ' action the clubface doesn’t open as much as with the 'swinging' action during the backswing and doesn’t close as much in the downstroke. 'Hitting' naturally produces what can be call a ‘Half Roll’ of the clubface. When you look at the clubface at both arms straight, you should see the clubface looking 45 degrees left (for righties) instead of 90 degrees left like with the 'swinging' action (full roll, clubface closed). This ‘Half Roll’ of the clubface produces a nice, solid no-roll feel instead of a difficult to manage full roll that a 'swinging' action has.

 

As you have said, you have nothing to lose because swinging with primarily the left side isn't working out well at all...

     

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by GreatStrike
orthography

[iacas]

9 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

So, why not use a 'hitting' action to swing the golf club

 

Because there's no such thing as "hitting" or "swinging"? And even you said "why not use a hitting action to swing the golf club?"

 

And I don't know about others, but I don't teach the golf swing as "primarily the lead, non-dominant side."

[Nels55]

10 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

 

Luke,

 

Thanks for the message. 

 

When you try to swing a golf club the way most teach the golf swing you are expected to use primarily your lead, non-dominant, side. Your relatively weak and less coordinated left arm and hand is called on to control the golf club, which includes control of the clubface. Most people can easily imagine the inferior results of trying to swing a golf club with just the non-dominant, left side while trying to keep the dominant right side at bay. For most people it just doesn't work! A golfer that can't control the clubface isn't going to play or score well. 

 

It's no wonder why people's stronger right side tries to take over from the weaker side, which causes all sorts of problems like swinging over-the-top, casting, flipping, not being able to square the clubface, etc.

 

So, why not use a 'hitting' action to swing the golf club by using your stronger and better coordinated right side against the resisting opposition force from your weaker left side? This actually makes perfect sense from a Kinesiology standpoint. 

 

I hope you find that pushing away with the trail arm against the resisting opposition force of the weaker left hand is a magical and valuable method that literally guides the hands and club on the proper arc path without intervention or manipulation while keeping the left arm straight. The key to using this opposing force is having the proper connection of your right hand's lifeline on the upper base of your left thumb. Let's see if it has the effect that most people get when making the change to a much preferred 'hitting' action.

 

Here's a video to help you understand how pushing the trail arm against the left thumb accomplishes this.

 

 

I suggest giving the 'hitting' action method a try. You don't need to be concerned with forearm rotation or squaring the clubface because your right arm/hand is much better able, being so skilled.  As you have said, you have nothing to lose because swinging with primarily the left side isn't working out well at all...

     

 

Lead arm or trail arm control are swing thoughts that may or may not have an effect on swing mechanics.  I can swing with either thought and sometimes one or the other can work well.  If there are serious mechanical problems with the way the body is moving neither swing thought is likely to help much.

[RoyalTroon]

14 hours ago, iacas said:

Because there's no such thing as "hitting" or "swinging"?

 

Sure there is, and they are both allowed by the game of strokes.

[PracticeSwinger]

14 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Because there's no such thing as "hitting" or "swinging"? And even you said "why not use a hitting action to swing the golf club?"

 

And I don't know about others, but I don't teach the golf swing as "primarily the lead, non-dominant side."

 

4 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

Sure there is, and they are both allowed by the game of strokes.

Let me grab some popcorn.

[GreatStrike]

On 4/22/2023 at 6:49 PM, iacas said:

 

Because there's no such thing as "hitting" or "swinging"? And even you said "why not use a hitting action to swing the golf club?"

 

And I don't know about others, but I don't teach the golf swing as "primarily the lead, non-dominant side."

 

@iacas - Of course there is 'hitting' and 'swinging'!

 

Apparently you are oblivious of the absolute fact that a pulling action (a.k.a. 'swinging') can be used to swing a golf club and also a pushing action (a.k.a. 'hitting')  can be used to swing a golf club. Both actions power a swinging motion of a golf club, yet they are powered by quite different forces.   

 

Your comments suggest that you believe there is only one action or way to swing a golf club.  

 

I'm guessing you are probably also unable to see or comprehend that it is actually the horse's pushing force that is used in order to move the rider's buggy, carriage or wagon that travels behind it!

 

 

 

It's a real shame that such valuable knowledge has been hidden from you in plain sight!  Sadly, after all these years you can only imagine how improved your golf related career could have been if only you had known...   

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by GreatStrike
orthography

[Carlito]

Mind the sand trap😉

[iacas]

  

8 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

@iacas - Of course there is 'hitting' and 'swinging'!

 

And both are used on virtually every golf swing. At best, they're feels or intents, not "reality."

 

8 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

Apparently you are oblivious of the absolute fact that a pulling action (a.k.a. 'swinging') can be used to swing a golf club and also a pushing action (a.k.a. 'hitting')  can be used to swing a golf club. Both actions power a swinging motion of a golf club, yet they are powered by quite different forces.

 

Not oblivious. I just see little value in pretending that a golf swing is almost exclusively one or the other when just about every full golf swing is a blend of both.

 

8 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

Your comments suggest that you believe there is only one action or way to swing a golf club.

 

No, sir, they do not. Your comments may suggest that you believe there are only two ways, though.

 

8 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

I'm guessing you are probably also unable to see or comprehend that it is actually the horse's pushing force that is used in order to move the rider's buggy, carriage or wagon that travels behind it!

 

Nope, sorry to disappoint. I've got a pretty good understanding of physics.

 

8 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

 

It's a real shame that such valuable knowledge has been hidden from you in plain sight!  Sadly, after all these years you can only imagine how improved your golf related career could have been if only you had known...

 

Yeah, if only I'd read my yellow book from the 80s more thoroughly than the fifteen or so times I've read it. Then I too could talk about or teach things that were dispelled decades ago. 😛

 

On 2/19/2011 at 8:53 AM, mikestloc said:

Hitting and swinging at best are feels.....EVERYONE who can a hit a driver over 180 yards does a combination of both

 

On 2/19/2011 at 8:57 AM, KevCarter said:

I think it's more of a feel and intent thing. In the full swing to play the modern game of golf, I think we all need a little of both.

 

On 2/19/2011 at 9:31 AM, Lake said:

Visited the Fujikura Enso room at the PGA Show and their system measures the loading action of each swing... They verified TGM's longitudinal & radial loading of the club...the rep said he sees most people do both w/ some more or less in each category. The drag at the top longitudinal and the right arm straightening radial.

 

On 2/19/2011 at 9:47 AM, Lake said:

[quote name='mikestloc' timestamp='1298144738' post='2992765']
[quote name='lake' timestamp='1298143861' post='2992737']
the rep said he sees most people do both w/ some more or less in each category.[/quote]

most people do both?

how about all
[/quote]

all http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/... except those missing a right arm

  

Thanks for the reply. Have a good day.

[GreatStrike]

18 hours ago, iacas said:

  

And both are used on virtually every golf swing. At best, they're feels or intents, not "reality."

 

Not oblivious. I just see little value in pretending that a golf swing is almost exclusively one or the other when just about every full golf swing is a blend of both.

 

 

No, sir, they do not. Your comments may suggest that you believe there are only two ways, though.

 

 

Nope, sorry to disappoint. I've got a pretty good understanding of physics.

 

 

Yeah, if only I'd read my yellow book from the 80s more thoroughly than the fifteen or so times I've read it. Then I too could talk about or teach things that were dispelled decades ago. 😛

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply. Have a good day.

 

 

@iacas - Thank you for your input.

 

In an effort to be more clear; I think whether a golfer with a sound golf swing uses 'primarily' their lead, non-dominant side to perform the backstroke and downstroke or uses 'primarily' their trail, dominant side to perform the backstroke and downstroke I definitely think both sides contribute - it's just that the golfer finds that one side plays a more important or 'primary' (dominant) role for him to perform the action of making his golf swing. And to add a little bit more, this preferred side a golfer uses includes the golfer's arm and hand to provide the majority impetus and to control the clubface.     

 

I suspect you would probably agree that there's no need in digging too deep into golf swing semantics, because it would likely be a never-ending discussion with no real clear acceptable accord. That seems to be the reality for the matter...  

 

Thanks again for the dialogue. You have a good day too...  
 

 

 

 

  

Edited April 25, 2023 by GreatStrike
orthography

[GreatStrike]

I think Cordie Walker, working with Dr. Sasho MacKenzie in this video, exudes what I believe to be him using primarily right side pushing (a.k.a. 'hitting') with right arm straightening in his golf swing as opposed to a pulling action (a.k.a. 'swinging') from the left arm (side). Linear motion vs Angular motion

 

Cordie's grip and arm/hand mannerisms/movements/actions throughout the video (while hitting balls and also while talking with Sasho) appear to typify that he favors using his dominant trail (right arm/hand) side for both impetus and control of the golf club.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by GreatStrike
orthography

[Carlito]

Quote

GreatStrike

This twist contortion takes place in the final movement of the wrist c0ck. This final wrist movement (twist) is kinda like latching the hammer on a revolver because the latching is the last action in the process, or is kinda like pulling the string of a compound archer bow over-the-cam because that consolation of getting on the other side of the cam is the last action in the process. The twist part of the wrist/hand/twist technique is the final action in the process of the wrist c0ck procedure. The wrist c0ck process is made up of right wrist bending-back, right wrist cocking or hinging, and (finally as the last action) a further twisting of the right hand where the right hand is rolled or twisted so the palm points more skyward in lieu of just pointing outward. The final 'twisting' where the palm is twisted to face more skyward completes the wrist c0ck set process and is similar to the analogy of setting or latching the hammer on a revolver. The right wrist is now locked and loaded - ready to fire! It is locked (hammer pulled back and ready to fire) and in order to fire it requires only one thing to take place - that one thing is the right wrist to uncock (unhinge). That uncocking is now fully and easily retained until either the club head's weight naturally uncocks the right wrist or the golfer physically uncocks it earlier.

 

Quote

This is all that is needed to acquire the hand action most elite golfers enjoy! It’s actually quite easy to learn and to accomplish, and to make it an element of every swing you make. Beyond swinging on-plane and having good fundamentals two very important keys are required: (1) soft or relaxed/loose wrists & (2) around 10 degrees of intentional bend or extension already employed just before impact at the point where the lead hand and lead forearm align. The combination of soft or relaxed/loose wrists and around 10 degrees of intentional bend or extension already employed just before impact is a trigger of sorts that promotes the hand action to start happening. Then it's just a matter letting it happen. The golfer should ‘allow’ and 'let' his hand action (roll/rotation/twirl) go ahead and happen without any muscular help or interference. You'll have probably around 45 degrees or more of lead wrist hinge at the P8 release position. Not as much hinge or bend as a flip would give but a significant amount of hinge/bend. So, your lead wrist begins intentionally hinging slightly before impact and is 'allowed' to hinge further through the impact zone.  Forget about having a flat left wrist (FLW) from P6 through P8. Forget about cocking your wrist (radial deviation) at the base of your lead thumb. You'll be using your freely-moving wrist hinging in a way that provides a top notch hand action release.        

 

 

@GreatStrike this are my favourite posts in this thread with over 1,6 Mio.  of views. Hand action with rotation of the arms and wrists! 

Thank you so much.... helped so much and still works like a charm. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Carlito

[GreatStrike]

Terry,

 

You are describing what is probably one of the most vexing or unmanageable things about a 'swinging' golf swing - that you'll have to learn not to actually focus on the golf ball. Instead, with a 'swinging' golf swing you're probably better off having a fuzzy or burred unfocused vision of the ball. I'm sure you know how it is when you're looking at something but you're really not seeing it - maybe you're thinking about something else or looking beyond it in your mind. It kind of a wide-eyed state-of-mind condition in which there is an awareness, but really no defined attention to detail about it. The reason why golfers with a 'swinging' action are better served with this fuzzy or blurred unfocused vision of the golf ball when they make their swing is because the typical golfer with a 'swinging' action golf swing has the intention for his ball to literally get in the way of his speeding clubhead, therefore it's best not to even see the golf ball with perfect vision. 

 

Contrary to that facet of 'swinging' is the golfer with a 'hitting' action golf swing. The 'hitter' finds it far more favorable and usually to his personal preference for precision and exactness which calls on him to intently focus on the golf ball. He prefers for a clear minds-eye mental image so he can figure out exactly how and what his body needs to do (arms and hands in particular) to lay a pinpoint spot of his clubface on his golf ball with the exact loft and squareness he desires when making contact and compressing the ball. One is a fuzzy blur of the ball when 'swinging' - the other is a surgeon-like precision focus of the ball when 'hitting'.      

 

Think of it this way; when 'swinging' you're actually swinging the clubhead out on the end of the clubshaft a bit wildly and out of control (compared to 'hitting') and you're counting on your golf ball to get in the way of the speeding clubhead and for your clubface to be lofted and angled somewhat correctly to produce a good or decent outcome. This is a whole body adventure that depends a lot on rotation. It's a bit like throwing a roundhouse haymaker punch and hoping your opponent's jaw is going to get in the way of your fist! But when 'hitting' you're in much more focus and much more control of things. The 'hitter' can dictate the amount of delofting and shaft lean with total precision. He can make ball contact precisely on his club's sweet spot exactly 3 grooves-up on every single swing he makes. He can deliver a perfectly square or slightly open or slightly closed clubface to the ball on command every single time. He becomes almost machine-like. He is a master at precision and exactness - every bit as much as you are a master at hitting a 10-penny nail dead smack square flush on the nail head every single time you want to drive a nail perfectly straight and deep into a piece of wood. A 'hitter' has no interest in having his golf ball get in the way of a wristy-made, slinging clubhead golf swing that may be 4° open and slightly laid-back at impact with one swing and then 5° closed and coming in to impact over-the-top from the outside with the next swing he makes. 

 

As you are apparently learning, most coordinated men feel they can apply more force to compress the ball to the absolute maximum and also to be more precise with how they want to deliver the clubface to the ball by making a 'hitting' action golf swing - using primarily their dominant side (arm and hand) to drive the clubshaft instead of slinging the clubhead out on the end of the clubshaft with a 'swinging' action.   

 

So, what you are finding out by experimenting with both 'swinging' and 'hitting' is very understandable. Choose your poison as they say! 

 

Best to you, and thanks for the nice words. I appreciate it...       

 

               

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by GreatStrike
orthography

[Golf_Goof]

On 4/24/2023 at 10:18 AM, GreatStrike said:

 

@iacas - Of course there is 'hitting' and 'swinging'!

 

Apparently you are oblivious of the absolute fact that a pulling action (a.k.a. 'swinging') can be used to swing a golf club and also a pushing action (a.k.a. 'hitting')  can be used to swing a golf club. Both actions power a swinging motion of a golf club, yet they are powered by quite different forces.   

 

Your comments suggest that you believe there is only one action or way to swing a golf club.  

 

I'm guessing you are probably also unable to see or comprehend that it is actually the horse's pushing force that is used in order to move the rider's buggy, carriage or wagon that travels behind it!

 

 

 

It's a real shame that such valuable knowledge has been hidden from you in plain sight!  Sadly, after all these years you can only imagine how improved your golf related career could have been if only you had known...   

 

 

 

This doesn’t fit any definition of push that I’ve ever read. 

[GreatStrike]

On 4/30/2023 at 8:31 PM, Golf_Goof said:

This doesn’t fit any definition of push that I’ve ever read. 

 

I'm sorry you are unable to understand how the horse pushes into its collar so his work can pull the buggy. You are missing out on an exciting golf swing concept that is hidden much like what you are unable to understand about the horse pushing into it collar to pull the buggy.    

 

If you are unable to understand this horse pushing into its collar concept then you're also probably unable to understand the concept of how a golfer can use his much better suited dominant arm and hand to more effectively swing his golf club as opposed to pulling on the golf club with his much weaker, less suited non-dominant arm and hand.    

 

It's really very simple to understand if you'll just open your mind to become able to understand different ideas or ways of thinking. 

 

A golfer can very easily and effectively create a tremendous pulling force on his golf club by pushing on his left thumb as he grips the golf club's handle by straightening his right arm. This pushing force drives the club in a very structured and defined arc enforced by the golfer's straight left arm that is actually kept straight by the right arm straightening, which applies push force from the lifeline of his right hand on his left thumb. The entire arm/hands/club structure is solidified and driven by the primary use of the golfer's dominant side arm and hand. This is totally unlike the 'swinging' action golf swing that most amateur golfers are taught that primarily uses his weaker left side arm and hand to pull on the club's handle...and somehow try to square the clubface and present desired loft without destroying the delicate weak-side pulling swinging action.         

 

The picture below shows how the horse pushes forward with its hindquarters into it collar which allows his work to pull the buggy, carriage or wagon. 

 

 

[Nard_S]

The horse is pulling, front wheel drive cars are more efficient because the power pulls, where RWD pushes. There's Newtonian physics that break all that down.

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, Nard_S said:

The horse is pulling, front wheel drive cars are more efficient because the power pulls, where RWD pushes. There's Newtonian physics that break all that down.

Put the cart before the horse!  LOL I don't hear that saying much anymore...

[GreatStrike]

13 hours ago, Nard_S said:

The horse is pulling, front wheel drive cars are more efficient because the power pulls, where RWD pushes. There's Newtonian physics that break all that down.

 

@Nard_S - No, anatomically the horse is pushing in order to move (pull) the cart. The collar allows the horse to use its full strength when pulling a load, essentially by enabling the animal to push forward with its hindquarters into the collar. 

 

Newtonian physics pertains to rigid body mechanical events, which is irrelevant to this topic. Locomotor biomechanics or body physics is more pertinent to this particular topic.   

 

Anatomically, is how I am trying to convey the message that a golfer can push by straightening his dominant arm and hand onto his non-dominant arm and hand that is gripping the club's handle in order to move (pull) his golf club to make his golf swing. It just takes an open mind to be able to understand different ideas or ways of thinking. Sorry you don't get it!   

 

I think the concept of pushing to create a pulling reaction/movement for a golf swing (it is the golf swing that is the subject matter here, isn't it?) was conceptionally lost for you in favor of your decision to taunt. Sorry that you are unable or unwilling to understand the basis of my use of the horse and buggy as an example to show how pushing can absolutely provide a pulling reaction and movement of the golf club. 

 

Have a good day...

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by GreatStrike
orthography

[iacas]

8 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

It just takes an open mind to be able to understand different ideas or ways of thinking. Sorry you don't get it!

Dude.

[metrybill]

Super Senior Alert - The described method for a flattish backswing is a home run and much easier to time than the twist method. It is a trail, dominant side method but does require a "deep" backswing. It works very well with stack-and-tilt, which greatly facilitates getting to the left side at impact. There IS some early twisting involved. Check out Tom Saguto golf, too. 

 

Turn the face down by hip high by Rick Smith. Per Kevin Roman, the shaft and the right arm match up. 

 

[Golf_Goof]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:21 AM, GreatStrike said:

 

I'm sorry you are unable to understand how the horse pushes into its collar so his work can pull the buggy. You are missing out on an exciting golf swing concept that is hidden much like what you are unable to understand about the horse pushing into it collar to pull the buggy.    

 

If you are unable to understand this horse pushing into its collar concept then you're also probably unable to understand the concept of how a golfer can use his much better suited dominant arm and hand to more effectively swing his golf club as opposed to pulling on the golf club with his much weaker, less suited non-dominant arm and hand.    

 

It's really very simple to understand if you'll just open your mind to become able to understand different ideas or ways of thinking. 

 

A golfer can very easily and effectively create a tremendous pulling force on his golf club by pushing on his left thumb as he grips the golf club's handle by straightening his right arm. This pushing force drives the club in a very structured and defined arc enforced by the golfer's straight left arm that is actually kept straight by the right arm straightening, which applies push force from the lifeline of his right hand on his left thumb. The entire arm/hands/club structure is solidified and driven by the primary use of the golfer's dominant side arm and hand. This is totally unlike the 'swinging' action golf swing that most amateur golfers are taught that primarily uses his weaker left side arm and hand to pull on the club's handle...and somehow try to square the clubface and present desired loft without destroying the delicate weak-side pulling swinging action.         

 

The picture below shows how the horse pushes forward with its hindquarters into it collar which allows his work to pull the buggy, carriage or wagon. 

 

 

 

The horse is pushing into the ground - as I would when pulling a rope in a tug of war. 

 

Quote

It's really very simple to understand if you'll just open your mind to become able to understand different ideas or ways of thinking.

 

Alternatively, you can make a convincing argument. 

 

Quote

This is totally unlike the 'swinging' action golf swing that most amateur golfers are taught that primarily uses his weaker left side arm and hand to pull on the club's handle

 

That's nice. So, I can pull the handle if it happens to be my dominant arm? Wouldn't want to apply push force with my weak arm now would I? 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Golf_Goof

[Nels55]

You know I really don't believe that how a horse pulls a cart has anything to do with a golf swing...  Just saying...

[iacas]

57 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

You know I really don't believe that how a horse pulls a cart has anything to do with a golf swing...  Just saying...

 

Pshaw!

[RoyalTroon]

On 4/24/2023 at 4:12 PM, Carlito said:

Mind the sand trap😉

 

Some sand traps are such a hot mess even Donald Ross would fire up the bulldozer.

[Golf_Goof]

8 hours ago, Nels55 said:

You know I really don't believe that how a horse pulls a cart has anything to do with a golf swing...  Just saying...

Apparently, it would be more efficient for the horse to push the cart from behind,,,