Unbelievably Unprofessional Behavior By a Pro

[jdub123]

delete

[dmboak]

Sounds normal for a pro who loses their game coming in.

[thusgone]

Sounds like you handled it right. I try to ignore stuff like that to the extent possible, but when a guy's flinging clubs all over the place something should be said just for the sake of safety.

It may be that he was embarrassed by your beating him and by his own misbehavior. Or he might just be a tool. Either way, you should try to rise above that kind of stuff, as a guy who will act like that is unlikely to take any comments on his lack of manners in good grace and if you were to try to straighten him out it would just make a bad situation worse.

[wkuo3]

He's so angry at himself losing it to a 17 year old ( like you said ).
Don't let his behavior bothers you, if he's not man enough to take the defeat, he's not going to be on the tour period.

[littlepingman]

Don't take it personal. I ran into similar situations quite often at your age. Its unfortunate, but its definitely not uncommon. Some people feel like their title makes them better or more important than someone else. In so many cases the opposite is true. I would take nothing but good thoughts from that. You basically put him in his place and he didn't like it. Good for you. Its obvious from his behavior that he deserved it.

It reminds me of a time playing with a local 'pro' at a course here in Augusta when I was near your age. I was beating him by a few strokes on the 17th hole when I hit a drive near an anthill(in the fairway). I proceeded to move my ball away from the anthill and hit my approach shot on the green. He commented about me moving the ball as if I had broken some rule. So I proceeded to take another ball out of my pocket, drop it on the ground, stomp it in the ground with 1/4 of the ball embedded and hit that shot on the green as well. Priceless.

[kamtile]

Something that took me a long time to learn and would have saved untold grief if I learned it sooner is "its not my job to educate anybody unless they ask". Everybody is a good example ,some people are a good example of how to behave and some are a good example of how not to behave ,but ,they are equally good examples.

[Swingtheclub]

You know if you care enough about this game sometimes you crack.

When I was a young assisstant I was always quite careful not to show my temper (yeah I had one) because I was trying to teach a bunch of juniors not too toss clubs and act up.

A couple in particular a kid that was a caddy and worked our bagroom and a members kid I was teaching had horrible spoiled brat temps and were always breaking clubs and getting lectured by me.

Anyway I take those two and another kid with me two caddy for myself and two members in a tournament ( I forget what it was)

Anyway I hit it inside fifteen feet nine of the first eleven holes. I was like two over and putting like a dog (nothing new for me)

I had a bout a six footer for birdie and hit a putt so bad I missed the hole by six inches and I snapped
.
I flung my putter about 75 feet away and then threw my ball at my bag. The bag was standing up and facing me and from about 40 feet I hit my name dead on and the bag fell over. I was toast after that and shot eighty something with no more incidents.

What do you think the news was when I got back to the club. Now they never saw my temper again but it was too late . I did learn a lesson though.

This guy could care less you beat him, but obviously he also does not care what you think of him. I dont think he commited mortal sin. But I do think he needs to grow up.

I did.

Ken

[jdub123]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='815018' date='Dec 6 2007, 08:53 PM']You know if you care enough about this game sometimes you crack.

When I was a young assisstant I was always quite careful not to show my temper (yeah I had one) because I was trying to teach a bunch of juniors not too toss clubs and act up.

A couple in particular a kid that was a caddy and worked our bagroom and a members kid I was teaching had horrible spoiled brat temps and were always breaking clubs and getting lectured by me.

Anyway I take those two and another kid with me two caddy for myself and two members in a tournament ( I forget what it was)

Anyway I hit it inside fifteen feet nine of the first eleven holes. I was like two over and putting like a dog (nothing new for me)

I had a bout a six footer for birdie and hit a putt so bad I missed the hole by six inches and I snapped
.
I flung my putter about 75 feet away and then threw my ball at my bag. The bag was standing up and facing me and from about 40 feet I hit my name dead on and the bag fell over. I was toast after that and shot eighty something with no more incidents.

What do you think the news was when I got back to the club. Now they never saw my temper again but it was too late . I did learn a lesson though.

This guy could care less you beat him, but obviously he also does not care what you think of him. I dont think he commited mortal sin. But I do think he needs to grow up.

I did.

Ken[/quote]



I are in some way justifying the throwing of clubs on any golf course? I think by throwing a club to the extent he did is absolutely inexcusable. I understand where you are coming from though.

[italianstallion]

I laugh at our assistant pro when he starts flinging clubs around, honestly, I think its hilarious. Hes all pissed when he flings it, but everytime I laugh, he starts laughing about it too.

But it sounds like you handled it good for the situation.

[floyd]

I've played with pro's like that, I think its reall funny, I am by no means a pro but my GHIN is +2.1 and when they start acting like that I get a kick out of it.

[Big Ben]

I think we have all had bad moments in this game when we feel like we haven't lived up to our own personal expectations. It takes maturity and true sportsmanship to accept the fact that we will get beaten and the better player won the match that day. Always tomorrow so don't let it bother you at all; golf is a wonderful game and teaches you a lot about character. Be a classy guy and you will always win!

[madi05]

i have never thrown a club , i have hit it into the ground and cracked my knuckle before and i have hit a tree with it and i have hit the side of the cart with it but i never have released it, i did hit my brother in the arm very hard mad, but he deserved it , he likes to pour salt on the wound when im playing bad and dont feel like talking , lol

madi05

[telluwhat]

You handled the situation with class.

May I suggest that you continue being the bigger man by not talking about it to anyone who knows who the pro is? A little discretion goes a long way.

[jdub123]

[quote name='telluwhat' post='815090' date='Dec 6 2007, 09:54 PM']You handled the situation with class.

May I suggest that you continue being the bigger man by not talking about it to anyone who knows who the pro is? A little discretion goes a long way.[/quote]


I don't think anyone here knows who the pro is... I never mentioned his name.

[jeremyblre21]

The majority of golfers think pro's are better than top amateurs. And the majority of young or new pros take this mind set as well. As if the title states "better" I thought the major difference was a pro earns money from the game of golf.

Majority of pro's seem upset and blame their lack of play. I don't think you should be a club pro if you think it will give you more opportunity to play. You should join for the love of the game and growing the game. IMO

Who hasn't heard of the PGA Professionals who claims they never have the chance to play or practice.

I'm fortunate enough to have run into some great respectable professionals on the golf course. But don't forget just because your an amateur it doesn't give you the right to act any way you want either.

You live and you learn. Something usually bad happens to those with a temper.

[Ace In The Hole]

Ya you did the right thing, I mean let the first one slide, but the second, is just not called for. Everyone is human, and some people vent there anger in different ways, funny how a guy who maybe throws his clubs at the course is viewed as a bad guy/ snap show. I myself have never thrown a club, and hope that I never do, I just don't see how it helps the situation at all, you risk breaking your equipment, or hurting someone, and it just makes everyone around you uncomfortable.

[NicholasP]

As a professional this is very disappointing to hear, having said that this man is obviously not a true professional. I say this because credentials aside, this is not how you should represent the game.

[Hungsolo]

why should it be hush hush? The pro is the face of the club. Does no one think he should be accountable for his poor sportsmanship? Golf is a game of honor, not for acting childish in front of a 17 year old.

I think the general manager should get an anonymous tip. I can understand why a 17 year old wouldn't want to go against the club pro, but his actions are inexcusable and reprehensible.

Think of what would happen to the 17 year old if the roles were reversed.

[thusgone]

[quote name='kamtile' post='815008' date='Dec 6 2007, 08:47 PM']Something that took me a long time to learn and would have saved untold grief if I learned it sooner is "its not my job to educate anybody unless they ask". Everybody is a good example ,some people are a good example of how to behave and some are a good example of how not to behave ,but ,they are equally good examples.[/quote]

Good post and good advice. Thanks.

[thusgone]

[quote name='jdub123' post='815023' date='Dec 6 2007, 08:58 PM'][quote name='kenk7us2002' post='815018' date='Dec 6 2007, 08:53 PM']You know if you care enough about this game sometimes you crack.

When I was a young assisstant I was always quite careful not to show my temper (yeah I had one) because I was trying to teach a bunch of juniors not too toss clubs and act up.

A couple in particular a kid that was a caddy and worked our bagroom and a members kid I was teaching had horrible spoiled brat temps and were always breaking clubs and getting lectured by me.

Anyway I take those two and another kid with me two caddy for myself and two members in a tournament ( I forget what it was)

Anyway I hit it inside fifteen feet nine of the first eleven holes. I was like two over and putting like a dog (nothing new for me)

I had a bout a six footer for birdie and hit a putt so bad I missed the hole by six inches and I snapped
.
I flung my putter about 75 feet away and then threw my ball at my bag. The bag was standing up and facing me and from about 40 feet I hit my name dead on and the bag fell over. I was toast after that and shot eighty something with no more incidents.

What do you think the news was when I got back to the club. Now they never saw my temper again but it was too late . I did learn a lesson though.

This guy could care less you beat him, but obviously he also does not care what you think of him. I dont think he commited mortal sin. But I do think he needs to grow up.

I did.

Ken[/quote]



I are in some way justifying the throwing of clubs on any golf course? I think by throwing a club to the extent he did is absolutely inexcusable. I understand where you are coming from though.
[/quote]

I don't think he was trying to justify the guy's bad behavior, rather he was giving some perspective on what might have been going on with the guy. It's possible to try to understand why someone does something without justifying or excusing it. You don't know what was going on with that guy, and his anger may have been related to something else entirely. Sometimes it's not about us, even though we think it is. The point I took from Ken's post is that while it's appropriate for you to disapprove of that kind of behavior (especially if you use the episode as an object lesson for your own on-course behavior), but it is not your place to judge anyone. Your job is to control yourself. If you do it right, it should leave little time or inclination for judging others.

That kind of sounds like the strange old guy in the woods in those USGA commercials, but I think it's good advice anyway.

[stage1350]

He probably doesn't care whether he throws them around because his clubs are either PUD or free. Since he doesn't have as many dollars invested in his equipment as some, he's less likely to exercise care with them. People do stupid things when they get free clubs sometimes.

[jeremyblre21]

I'm sorry I can't support a club pro who gets this angry when playing with a member. If a pro has something else going on in his life, he needs to not bring it to his work.

I can't think of another industry that would accept this behavior on or off the clock with a customer/ guest/member.

I hope for his own good whatever is going on with this PROFESSIONAL he gets over it for his own good.

[Keyser Soze]

i remember one incident where a pro was so disgusted with his clubs he dumped them on some poor kid on the 18th tee at the ginn championship. this poor kid had to throw these clubs up on ebay to get rid of the stigma associated with that pro's boorish behavior.

fortunately he was smart enough to tell us about them, disguising his greed with elation as he had them posted after the first "$1600 for the shafts alone" quote. i think there's a moral to the story, something about person without sin living in a glass house flinging poo with the monkeys. i think jesus said that.

[thusgone]

[quote name='jeremyblre21' post='815566' date='Dec 7 2007, 11:05 AM']I'm sorry I can't support a club pro who gets this angry when playing with a member. If a pro has something else going on in his life, he needs to not bring it to his work.

I can't think of another industry that would accept this behavior on or off the clock with a customer/ guest/member.

I hope for his own good whatever is going on with this PROFESSIONAL he gets over it for his own good.[/quote]

I don't disagree with you, but I was not suggesting that we support this guy's behavior.

He shouldn't have done it, nobody should do it -- regardless of the circumstances -- end of story. The next bit goes to how one should react when something like this happens. My position is that it is entirely possible to deplore the bad behavior while leaving open the possibility that it is (a) not directed at you personally, and (b) not the way the guy usually acts but is instead an aberration motivated by something you have no inkling of. This is emphatically NOT the same thing as supporting, justifying or excusing the fact that this pro made an unprofessional a** of himself. They are two different things.

I was also suggesting that, while rightfully deploring the behavior, the stand-up thing to do is to reserve judgment on the guy exhibiting it. It is good discipline to distinguish between the act and the actor (or sin and sinner, if you prefer), and I don't think I have the right or the authority to sit in judgment of someone else.

I would love to be able to say that I have conducted myself with the utmost courtesy and appropriateness in every situation I have ever found myself in for my entire life. But the truth is that I have not. I try to do the right thing and sometimes I succeed and sometimes I don't. I'm pretty sure everyone here has fallen short of his own standards of behavior a time or two. It's useful to remember our own failings, I think, when we're tempted to judge someone else. Again, I'm talking about reserving judgment on the [u]person[/u], not the behavior.

I also agree with you that the guy needs get over whatever is bothering him and stop acting like a jerk, especially in front of juniors, for whom he is supposed to be setting a good example. I'll go further and say that if this is his normal way of acting, he should find another line of work. But I agree with the poster who pointed out that it's not our job to teach lessons to adults we don't know.

[Jayhawk]

You can't fix stupid. - Bill Engvall

[thusgone]

[quote name='Keyser Soze' post='815571' date='Dec 7 2007, 11:17 AM']i remember one incident where a pro was so disgusted with his clubs he dumped them on some poor kid on the 18th tee at the ginn championship. this poor kid had to throw these clubs up on ebay to get rid of the stigma associated with that pro's boorish behavior.

fortunately he was smart enough to tell us about them, disguising his greed with elation as he had them posted after the first "$1600 for the shafts alone" quote. i think there's a moral to the story, something about person without sin living in a glass house flinging poo with the monkeys. i think jesus said that. [/quote]

You have opened my eyes, Keyser Soze and Ron Jeremy. This is not a discussion about morality or personal standards of behavior. It's about COMMERCE.

I've been looking at this thing the wrong way. The RIGHT thing for the pro to do would have been to give his entire bag and its contents, and maybe even his wallet and car keys to the plucky junior in recompense for his heinous moral failing, to be converted to cash at the enterprising youth's first opportunity. That way both the WRX and Ebay communities could have benefited from the pro's sterling example.

And because the pro did not cough up all his worldly goods to the golfing moppet, we should shun him from our community and fling poo at his reputation until he comes to his senses and gives the little shaver some free swag that he can speedily peddle for whatever the market will bear.

Thanks guys, I can see now that I made a category error in reading this thread.

[Keyser Soze]

[quote name='thusgone' post='815600' date='Dec 7 2007, 12:45 PM'][quote name='Keyser Soze' post='815571' date='Dec 7 2007, 11:17 AM']i remember one incident where a pro was so disgusted with his clubs he dumped them on some poor kid on the 18th tee at the ginn championship. this poor kid had to throw these clubs up on ebay to get rid of the stigma associated with that pro's boorish behavior.

fortunately he was smart enough to tell us about them, disguising his greed with elation as he had them posted after the first "$1600 for the shafts alone" quote. i think there's a moral to the story, something about person without sin living in a glass house flinging poo with the monkeys. i think jesus said that. [/quote]

You have opened my eyes, Keyser Soze and Ron Jeremy. This is not a discussion about morality or personal standards of behavior. It's about COMMERCE.

I've been looking at this thing the wrong way. The RIGHT thing for the pro to do would have been to give his entire bag and its contents, and maybe even his wallet and car keys to the plucky junior in recompense for his heinous moral failing, to be converted to cash at the enterprising youth's first opportunity. That way both the WRX and Ebay communities could have benefited from the pro's sterling example.

And because the pro did not cough up all his worldly goods to the golfing moppet, we should shun him from our community and fling poo at his reputation until he comes to his senses and gives the little shaver some free swag that he can speedily peddle for whatever the market will bear.

Thanks guys, I can see now that I made a category error in reading this thread.
[/quote]

no. i was actually making a point about karma. the memory had more to do with jdub123's posted experience than it did with bible camp. i was simply relaying that, highlighting that maybe he doesn't have too solid of footing on his moral high ground.

your story is nice enough though.

[thusgone]

[quote name='Keyser Soze' post='815612' date='Dec 7 2007, 11:54 AM'][quote name='thusgone' post='815600' date='Dec 7 2007, 12:45 PM'][quote name='Keyser Soze' post='815571' date='Dec 7 2007, 11:17 AM']i remember one incident where a pro was so disgusted with his clubs he dumped them on some poor kid on the 18th tee at the ginn championship. this poor kid had to throw these clubs up on ebay to get rid of the stigma associated with that pro's boorish behavior.

fortunately he was smart enough to tell us about them, disguising his greed with elation as he had them posted after the first "$1600 for the shafts alone" quote. i think there's a moral to the story, something about person without sin living in a glass house flinging poo with the monkeys. i think jesus said that. [/quote]

You have opened my eyes, Keyser Soze and Ron Jeremy. This is not a discussion about morality or personal standards of behavior. It's about COMMERCE.

I've been looking at this thing the wrong way. The RIGHT thing for the pro to do would have been to give his entire bag and its contents, and maybe even his wallet and car keys to the plucky junior in recompense for his heinous moral failing, to be converted to cash at the enterprising youth's first opportunity. That way both the WRX and Ebay communities could have benefited from the pro's sterling example.

And because the pro did not cough up all his worldly goods to the golfing moppet, we should shun him from our community and fling poo at his reputation until he comes to his senses and gives the little shaver some free swag that he can speedily peddle for whatever the market will bear.

Thanks guys, I can see now that I made a category error in reading this thread.
[/quote]

no. i was actually making a point about karma. the memory had more to do with jdub123's posted experience than it did with bible camp. i was simply relaying that, highlighting that maybe he doesn't have too solid of footing on his moral high ground.

your story is nice enough though.
[/quote]

I was actually trying to do the same thing (with notably less success, evidently). I remembered the earlier thread when I read your response, and was trying to amend my earlier good faith answer to the kid accordingly.

I liked your post as well.

[stage1350]

That Keyser Soze can spin a good yarn. I remember when he was telling me about being in a barber shop quartet in Skokie, Illinois. Good stuff!

[jeremyblre21]

I definately agree from all those who have posted here.

I don't care if its a professional or an amateur golfer I dread to play with those who make golf unpleasent for me or others. Who wouldn't???

We all get angry, happy, sad, etc etc out there and I'm not saying we should all be machines and act the same but it makes a big difference to ME if someone apologizes for their behavior. I can almost guarentee this post would not have started if the pro said after the round something like "I'm sorry for the way I acted and if it caused you guys any concern, I just am really passionate about this game and lost it." Personally I would have felt for the guy and related at some level.