Slow Play

[bassman1308]

wkuo3 is correct. It's up to the course management to educate people about the proper pace of play. It can't be that difficult to hand out information regarding this. I know nobody wants to be the 'bad' guy, but this CAN be done tactfully. Unfortunatlly, my course is not tactfull at all. The owner has ran off a lot of ppl with his gruffness. However, I can play almost anytime without a t-time and in under 4 hrs. Unfortunatlly, he keeps raising the membership fees to make up for the lost revenue from the ppl he's ran off. I wonder if everyone would be willing to pay 50% extra to make up for the loss business if management ran off all the slow players. I know a lot of the members at my course are talking about going elsewhere if we get another big increase even though we have little slow play problems.

[wkuo3]

Several of our Muni courses had logged in more than 100,000 rounds played annually on an 18 hole layout. Still able to keep the condition very good at that rate. I'm assuming any golf course having more than 60,000 rounds annually qualified as a busy golf establishment. At a reasonable green fee for everyone.
Your management team need new talent to figure out a way to keep most of the golfers happy.
They're getting paid to do this, and if they fail, some young talent with more ambition would take over.

[quote name='bassman1308' post='827250' date='Dec 16 2007, 11:14 PM']wkuo3 is correct. It's up to the course management to educate people about the proper pace of play. It can't be that difficult to hand out information regarding this. I know nobody wants to be the 'bad' guy, but this CAN be done tactfully. Unfortunatlly, my course is not tactfull at all. The owner has ran off a lot of ppl with his gruffness. However, I can play almost anytime without a t-time and in under 4 hrs. Unfortunatlly, he keeps raising the membership fees to make up for the lost revenue from the ppl he's ran off. I wonder if everyone would be willing to pay 50% extra to make up for the loss business if management ran off all the slow players. I know a lot of the members at my course are talking about going elsewhere if we get another big increase even though we have little slow play problems.[/quote]

[wkuo3]

I guess when your career and livelihood is at stake, you'll have a bit more patience and live and let live so to speak of the slow play. This is entirely different than recreational play.
They also have slow playing rule now for tournament play, if the groups ahead plays slow, you could request tournament officials to stop-watch them for penalty.

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='826973' date='Dec 16 2007, 07:50 PM']Thats cool now here comes the big question.

Every place I have ever played tournament play is slower way slower than regular play.

This screams my question [b]"What the hell do you do when its a tournament?"[/b][/quote]

[nightwalker]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='826973' date='Dec 16 2007, 07:50 PM']Its sounds like to me its not the carts that are the problem but the operators. At my home course if anything slows up play its usually walkers. Then again eighty percent of the play is in a cart.




Now lets get into the second part of the question.

Many of you have stated "I hate waiting between shots - I lose concentration and rhythm and focus. " In a nutshell we have about twenty of you saying the same thing it ruins focus kills your rhythm etc etc etc.


Thats cool now here comes the big question.

Every place I have ever played tournament play is slower way slower than regular play.

This screams my question [b]"What the hell do you do when its a tournament?"[/b][/quote]

You do bring up a couple of good points in your post. Much of the "waiting" is a matter of perspective when you start mixing carts and walkers. Walkers spend time waiting for the cart(s) to bounce between both players to hit their shots, however, the carts are out of range faster. Riders think walkers are slow because the carts race up to their shots, and they have to wait for the walkers to get out of range. Both perspectives give the illusion of "waiting" between shots but in reality, neither are faster (provided all players involved are "golfers" and the round is shorter than 4.5 hours). Learning to pace ourselves a little bit more can help break this waiting time and improve rhythm.

As far as tournament play, pace really depends on the tournament and whether there are penalties imposed for slow play. Here's 2 examples from this last year (course was tournament only/no public play before events):

Average Times:

Golf Channel Amateur Tour: Carts Only, Foursomes, 9 minute times: 5 Hours 50 Minutes
Travelers Champ. Monday Qualifier: Walking Only, Threesomes, 9 minute times: 4 hours 30 Minutes

At the end of the day, all the complaining won't change a thing until the players themselves decide that 5-6 hour rounds hurt everyone, and that they are not the center of the universe.

[againstthegrain]

I have actually had some good rounds playing slow when I accept that it's going to be slow. I have also had some really frustrating times due to slow play which did force me to find another club. The cost of changing was enormous, but now I am at a place where we have a 3:50 max time before 8am(no guests) on weekends and 4:10 max for other times with the exception of Sunday afternoons which is family time.

One thing I would recommend is that you make sure you don't let the wife or girlfriend put you on such a short leash.

[Swingtheclub]

seriously most young men are without a pair when it comes to their significant other.

I have said for years that my wife (of 29 years ) knows better than to ask me too choose between her and golf. Seriously I would probably choose her but she does not know it.

I don't ask my wife if I can play golf or how long I will be gone I tell her.

Still got mine

[Ogre41]

[quote name='ClubHoUno' post='826326' date='Dec 16 2007, 09:56 AM']Instead of being annoyed over something you/we obviously can't do anything about, why not play 9 holes instead of 18 and use a total of 4-4½ hours including practice and a beer at the club house after the game - and then be able to get home to the girlFriend/wife and kids ?

I often choose to play 9 holes, if I only have 4 hours total (including practice, beer at club house and transport to and from the club).
This calms me down and I don't worry too much, if the course is flooded with slow playing 'golfers' that particular day.

Remember that golf is not considered a sport by many, but a game.

I know a lot of older guys (60+ years old) at my club, that play golf for the fun of it and [b]ALSO[/b] because they get to walk around in a beautiful scenery, which they feel they can enjoy and look at, while playing golf.
When these guys bump into the fast playing low handicap golfers, that play golf to score low and not to look at the trees, they sometimes let them through, sometimes not.[/quote]



I am all about the 9 hole round if time is tight. but some of my friends are the 18 or nothing group, yet they still whine about time. it's nice to see another person who can see golf as a 9 hole activity that can be called a game.

[MKGolfer]

If slower groups would just learn to let faster ones play through, everyone would be happy. Everyone deserves a chance at golf, but if you aren't ready for the course, take some lessons and hit the range.

Slow play penalizes the rest of us that live for the game, and prefer to play in rhythm. I've played with plenty of 50 or 60 yr old guys that play by the honor system, shoot 80's or 90's, and still finish in 4 hours. It's called ETIQUETTE. It shouldn't be considered rude if you're bunching up behind someone. After three or four holes... TAKE A HINT!! It's time to let them play through.

[iskysoma01]

If anyone has to worry about pissing of the foursome he is playing with on more than one or two rounds is a slow player, doesn matter if he hits his approach shots quickly, waiting while one does everything from plum bobbing, walking around the green, etc is the most annoying aspect of golf. If you want to do that do it at a tournament. All these preshot crap can be done while getting to the green. If you need to smell the roses go to the flower store, were here to play golf.

[Swingtheclub]

[quote name='iskysoma01' post='833328' date='Dec 21 2007, 06:46 PM']If anyone has to worry about pissing of the foursome he is playing with on more than one or two rounds is a slow player, doesn matter if he hits his approach shots quickly, waiting while one does everything from plum bobbing, walking around the green, etc is the most annoying aspect of golf. If you want to do that do it at a tournament. All these preshot crap can be done while getting to the green. If you need to smell the roses go to the flower store, were here to play golf.[/quote]


Worst advice I have ever heard from anyone save it for a tournment.

The secret to playing well in a tournament is playing your practice rounds the same way you play your tournament rounds.


You do not show up at a tournament and say ok today I am actually going to think about what I am doing trust me it does not work.

I have never known anyone that could play golf at any type of competive level without a preshot routine and are you serious you do not believe in reading putts.

I have stated several times in this thread I started I am not advocating slow play. But I do not want the game to be a marathon either and indeed I want to enjoy my time on a golf course smell the roses if you will . Simply put there is no place I would rather be.

I see guys all the time ruin there rounds because they think play is a little slow, and they become adjutated by it.

These same guys if they play a round in four hours complain that it should have been three and a half If they play in three and a half it should have been three.

Then they finish and sit around the clubhouse and drink beer for two hours.

[MKGolfer]

I hear what you're saying, but there's no need to be waiting to hit shots on the golf course. Once you get to your next shot, all you should be thinking about is where and how you want to hit it. Not what the f*&# the guys ahead are still doing there.

Enjoying your time, and not "hurrying" on the golf course definitely makes sense. It's just bothers me when you see guys go back and forth 80 yards at a time, who have no idea that there are 2 groups behind them on the same hole. If there is someone slow in your group, or if they are irritable when the round can run 30 minutes faster, just don't play with them any more.

Slow play sucks. Keeping pace, while enjoying the roses, and maintaining a nice smooth tempo is just fine. Do what you do in a tournament during regular rounds. But if it means making the rest of us wait while you rack up your 90+ round, save it for the hackers' tour. We don't need that on the golf course.

[Swingtheclub]

[quote name='MKGolfer' post='833493' date='Dec 21 2007, 09:50 PM']I hear what you're saying, but there's no need to be waiting to hit shots on the golf course. Once you get to your next shot, all you should be thinking about is where and how you want to hit it. Not what the f*&# the guys ahead are still doing there.

Enjoying your time, and not "hurrying" on the golf course definitely makes sense. It's just bothers me when you see guys go back and forth 80 yards at a time, who have no idea that there are 2 groups behind them on the same hole. If there is someone slow in your group, or if they are irritable when the round can run 30 minutes faster, just don't play with them any more.

Slow play sucks. Keeping pace, while enjoying the roses, and maintaining a nice smooth tempo is just fine. Do what you do in a tournament during regular rounds. But if it means making the rest of us wait while you rack up your 90+ round, save it for the hackers' tour. We don't need that on the golf course.[/quote]



Last I looked my handicap was 2.1 and I was winning tournaments in Texas before you were born so I doubt you will have to worry about me shooting ninety.

Then again maybe we should only allow golf for single digit handicappers are you a single digit?

Then again if we did not let these people that can not break ninety to play I doubt any of us could afford to play.

Last I heard about 85 percent of the people that play golf can break ninety.


Again I am not advocating slow play , I am advocating more learning to live with it, trust me it is here to stay.

I play with guys that if they have to wait twice in and 18 hole round they have a fit. Let the course be busy and its a really slow round like say four hours and a half , they can not handle it. It ruins there game they can not slow down. Naturally whent hey play in a tournament and its slow they can not even play. So they catch a day when its slow they b**** for eighteen holes and go in the club house and drink beer , go back out for another nine or go home and sit on the couch.

[Golfdog]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='833511' date='Dec 21 2007, 10:17 PM']Again I am not advocating slow play , I am advocating more learning to live with it, trust me it is here to stay.[/quote]

That is the kind of attitude that perpetuates slow play IMO. If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

Your friends have a problem. I don't b**** and moan when I have to wait. I calmly endure it. But I sure as hell don't like it, and could play in 3-1/2 hours (walking) without feeling rushed in the least.

[MKGolfer]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='833511' date='Dec 21 2007, 09:17 PM']Last I looked my handicap was 2.1 and I was winning tournaments in Texas before you were born so I doubt you will have to worry about me shooting ninety.

Then again maybe we should only allow golf for single digit handicappers are you a single digit?

Then again if we did not let these people that can not break ninety to play I doubt any of us could afford to play.

Again I am not advocating slow play , I am advocating more learning to live with it, trust me it is here to stay.

I play with guys that if they have to wait twice in and 18 hole round they have a fit. Let the course be busy and its a really slow round like say four hours and a half , they can not handle it. It ruins there game they can not slow down. Naturally whent hey play in a tournament and its slow they can not even play. So they catch a day when its slow they b**** for eighteen holes and go in the club house and drink beer , go back out for another nine or go home and sit on the couch.[/quote]

Last time I checked, this board is full of single digit hcps, including myself. In fact, there are plenty of guys here that are better than a 2.1, who win golf tournaments for a living. I don't think any of them like slow play.

Maybe in the old days when golfers used old hickory sticks, and before I was born they didn't care about slow play. You asked why we hate slow play, and I gave you my answer. Not sure why you're almost defending it.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here but just using this thread to vent off some steam about why I hate slow play. There's no reason for it, and having to stop and smell the roses, NOT BY CHOICE, at the expense of spending time with my wife and kid is not worth it. When a round of golf goes to 5 hrs, it's only due to ignorant people on the course.

I can shoot a good score in 4 hours, or 5 or 6 hours, so why delay? Go home early, be happy with it, and live to play another day.

[Swingtheclub]

I did the making a living at it once to and cashed some tournaments .

Thats part of the point boy playing tournaments is now and always has been slow.

This thread is more about how you deal with slow play.

As far as being part of the solution. Other than when I get on the green I am a very fast player. I am a bit slow on the greens but not so much that I slow anyone down much. Give me and empty course and I can play nine in about thirty minutes in a cart without rushing myself.

When I say slow down much, I am that poor bastxxx that has to take his time over short putts, they are not tap ins to me outside six inches or so.

The point of this thread was to get people to regognize what they do to their own games getting annoyed by slow play.

If your convinced you can't play at that pace you got no chance. I wanted players to read this thread and have it dawn on them that they are hurting there own games by not having a game plan for slow play.


Now like I said threads ago I seldom have to deal with a five or six hour round outside of tournaments. But when it does happen it does not affect my game.

At my club the rounds last 3 and a half to four hours if they go anylonger we have guys that pull there hair out and boy do they hack when it gets slow.

Ha ha actually its made me a lot of money.

[Swingtheclub]

I think I give up the point of this thread was to point out how some guys let slow play ruin the one thing they want to be doing.

To point out to them that it was their atitude about it not the slow play that was running there scores up.

The thread was never about advocating slow play , but learning to deal with it.


That was my mission , obviously I have failed.

[Boba]

God Damn! This thread is taking for ever!!!

Joking aside, in response to "Slow Play, why do you hate it?" Slow play sucks because waiting sucks. Do you like to sit in rush hour traffic? Do you enjoy waiting in line at the airport while a monkey waves a metal detector around an 80year old woman? Do you enjoy the 12 minutes in line behind someone preparing for [s]Armageddon[/s] Christmas dinner at the supermarket & all you have to buy is a bag of coffee, a few bananas & some bagels?

Aside from the masochists on this site, people in general don't enjoy waiting. The wait for slow players is a wait for ignorant people, people who are oblivious to the 3 hole gap in front as well as those behind them.

[Solutions Etcetera]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='833750' date='Dec 22 2007, 05:22 AM']I think I give up the point of this thread was to point out how some guys let slow play ruin the one thing they want to be doing.

To point out to them that it was their atitude about it not the slow play that was running there scores up.

The thread was never about advocating slow play , but learning to deal with it.


That was my mission , obviously I have failed.[/quote]
There is just too much attitude to overcome. The guys that need to get done in three + hours to get back to the ball and chain... The ignoramuses that feel slower players that need 30 more strokes than themselves are ignorant. They all have their excuses for behaving badly.

If you want to complete a round in under four hours, you are not the norm, and you have no reason to expect to do so on a course you don't own.

This whole "slow play" concept is way out of hand and you folks need to relax. While I rarely run into this after leaving the city munis and mostly playing on weekdays, I still run into this. Second to the last Saturday outing I played we had not come up on anyone until the seventeenth (we get on the tee, folks are in the fairway). No one has come up on us all day until 18 (because we waited at 17 and 18). We're in the fairway waiting for the green to clear. Three A**holes on the 18 tee hit while we're in the fairway and as I turn around and look back at them (still waiting for the green to clear) they yell "c'mon guys, what are you doin!".

These guys were lucky that day. But when that day comes when I am diagnosed terminally ill I am gonna play golf every day. And when one of these guys gets behind me then, I am gonna pull a varmint rifle from my bag and shoot him in the left knee

[Golfdog]

[quote name='Boba' post='833754' date='Dec 22 2007, 08:32 AM'][b]God Damn! This thread is taking for ever!!![/b]

Joking aside, in response to "Slow Play, why do you hate it?" Slow play sucks because waiting sucks. Do you like to sit in rush hour traffic? Do you enjoy waiting in line at the airport while a monkey waves a metal detector around an 80year old woman? Do you enjoy the 12 minutes in line behind someone preparing for [b][s]Armageddon[/s] Christmas dinner[/b] at the supermarket & all you have to buy is a bag of coffee, a few bananas & some bagels?

Aside from the masochists on this site, people in general don't enjoy waiting. The wait for slow players is a wait for ignorant people, people who are oblivious to the 3 hole gap in front as well as those behind them.[/quote]

Boba you gave me a couple LOLs there. Good post!

[iskysoma01]

By the way I said preshot crap not pre shot routine, there is a difference.

[steventoo]

[quote name='Solutions Etcetera' post='833786' date='Dec 23 2007, 12:02 AM']If you want to complete a round in under four hours, you are not the norm, and you have no reason to expect to do so on a course you don't own.[/quote]
That may be the case where you live and play, but I can assure you that slow play is one of the most pressing issues at my club and at the clubs I visit. A round of golf shouldn't take all day, and trying to turn a three or four hour activity in to something that takes twice as long is both tedious and frustrating, and not at all enjoyable.

It is normal for me to want to complete a round in under four hours where I play, and I am certainly not in the minority. We, and especially I, don't hand over thousands of dollars a year to spend our time on the course sitting around waiting... we can do that at home in front of the TV. We're there to play golf.

[Swingtheclub]

[quote name='Boba' post='833754' date='Dec 22 2007, 08:32 AM']God Damn! This thread is taking for ever!!!

Joking aside, in response to "Slow Play, why do you hate it?" Slow play sucks because waiting sucks. Do you like to sit in rush hour traffic? Do you enjoy waiting in line at the airport while a monkey waves a metal detector around an 80year old woman? Do you enjoy the 12 minutes in line behind someone preparing for [s]Armageddon[/s] Christmas dinner at the supermarket & all you have to buy is a bag of coffee, a few bananas & some bagels?

Aside from the masochists on this site, people in general don't enjoy waiting. The wait for slow players is a wait for ignorant people, people who are oblivious to the 3 hole gap in front as well as those behind them.[/quote]


Boba I don't like it I just smile and deal with it. I get stuck in a line I strike up a conversation with whomever is in line with me.

[BENNYSUPREME]

this come back to the thread i almost killed someone, by hole #12 we were all ready over 3 hour all the retire military folk do not like that, they are there on a mission and want to get home to the old lady..... just keep the play at around 4 hours and 15 and nobody complains ( well you still have that thew that think there playing polo)

[blkdiamond]

Sometimes slow play is just part of the round. Allowing it to affect you negatively will reflect on your game. If the course is busy, I know that chances are I am going to be waiting on most if not all shots, if this is the case I will take my time more on my own shots, engage in more conversations with those I am playing with and really try to not let the slow play bother me. I work to keep pace with the group in front of me. The second they put the flag back in the cup I get setup so once they are off the green I can take my shot.

 

Now slow play does become an issue when someone behind me gets upset, or tries to play through when there is nothing I can do about the pace of play due to the group in front of me. I have had groups want to play-through and we will let them, then when we get to the next tee-box they haven't even tee'd off yet due to having to wait for the group that was in front of me. If the course is busy, and everyone is having to wait, allowing groups to play-through just causes traffic jams. Now if the course isn't busy, then by all means let the faster groups play through.

[andechr]

If slower groups would just learn to let faster ones play through, everyone would be happy. Everyone deserves a chance at golf, but if you aren't ready for the course, take some lessons and hit the range.

 

Slow play penalizes the rest of us that live for the game, and prefer to play in rhythm. I've played with plenty of 50 or 60 yr old guys that play by the honor system, shoot 80's or 90's, and still finish in 4 hours. It's called ETIQUETTE. It shouldn't be considered rude if you're bunching up behind someone. After three or four holes... TAKE A HINT!! It's time to let them play through.

 

EXACTLY! I actually don't mind playing at just about any pace, but nothing kills a round for me more than having a group breathing down my neck while I'm waiting for an extremely slow group ahead that won't let anyone play through. Yesterday we were on a par 5 and just as I'm hitting my second shot (laying up because the group ahead of us was still on the green) a ball comes soaring over my head from the group behind us. Then as we are putting out a guy from the group behind puts his ball about 5 feet off the green. Meanwhile the group ahead of us is still blasting their third and fourth provisional tee shots OB. If someone is putting pressure on me from behind I'll let them play through. But if there's nowhere for them to go the problem is just going to keep compounding itself.