Slow Play

[Swingtheclub]

why do you hate it

Most of us would rather be on a golf course than any place. Yet so many of you hate slow play.

Why can you not stop and smell the ross, whats the hurry

Ken

[Manywins]

Although everyone loves being on the golf course. I think I can speak for others that no one whats to spend 10-15 minutes in between shots. Also, as much as I would like to spend all day at the course. I cannot dedicate 5-6 hours of standing around to play 18 holes.

[wedgetoafoot]

Slow play is unnatural and takes away from the flow of the round. Plus it pisses off everyone's wife/girlfriend when you are gone for 6 hours on a weekend. That's the real reason it sucks if you ask me. I get away from home and the guilty feeling starts coming over me when I make the turn in 3 hours.

[larrybud]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='825604' date='Dec 15 2007, 02:54 PM']Most of us would rather be on a golf course than any place. Yet so many of you hate slow play.

Why can you not stop and smell the ross, whats the hurry[/quote]

I don't see why you equate not playing slow with hurrying.

Slow play prevents any kind of rhythm in a round. If I have to wait 5 minutes before I make every tee shot, you lose any kind of mojo you have from hole to hole, not to mention getting stiff.

[Swingtheclub]

I posted this thread from work and did not have a lot of time to post what I was thinking in creating the thread.

I think the need to play fast is almost as bad as playing to slow and can border on rudeness.

Now understand I do not take much time getting to my ball and play most of my shots fairly quickly. I have worked hard the last few years on a slightly slower routine but I am still quicker than average.

Where I get really slow is over a putt, I simply have a checklist I go through and will not putt till I am comfortable. My putting has improved tremendously since I slowed down.

Most weekend rounds at our club are four hours a little more or a little less give or take. If the guys I play with are held up they go nuts . You can actually see them rushing there shots like that will speed up the group we are following.

Whats really funny is when we get done and they have bitched the whole round and we finished under four hours. I point this out to them and they say well we could have done it in three and a half. They are never satisfied.

Whats really funny is when these guys get in a tournament and it slows down it destroys their games . I just laugh at them.

The bottom line is this thread is not to advocate slow play but to remind players to like I said use a little common courtesy and slow down and smell the roses.

Golf is not supposed to be a race. Look at the top players in the world do they get in a hurry.

So I am just saying the next time you think its slow just slow down a bit and it will not be so bad and you might even play better.

[Veritas]

I agree that often people are in too much of a rush out on the course; however, I know for me it's a matter of just not having 6 hours to spend on the course.

[BFC]

I love it when pro's b**** about a 5h pro am but don't see the irony of playing a 4 1/2 round in twosomes............

I don't like rush but I try to be ready to hit when my turn comes.

[stage1350]

A lot of it rests on the course managers and the design. When you are scheduling groups with 7 minute tee time intervals, everyone will wait on shots. Put one slow group in there and you will end up with 3-4 groups stacked up on EVERY par 3.

I've played 18 in less than 3 hours walking and usually shoot much better under those circumstances. Walk to the ball, select your club, one practice swing, and hit it. When I'm waiting for a green or landing area to clear, I start to get tense. You can only walk around and keep your mind occupied for so long before it pisses you off.

It doubles my anger when signs are clearly posted and it's stated on the scorecard that slow players should allow faster players to play through. When you have a hold open ahead of you, your group is a problem.

[Samsquanch]

Because I cant wait to hit my next shot, I have no time to waste smelling flowers! Besides, I'm on a mission from god xD

I do take in the beauty of the golf course though, while I am walking at a good pace

[nightwalker]

Not to piss anyone off, but the biggest problem with pace of play is that too many of the people who come to my course are not "golfers". By that I mean: The idea of a round is carts, beer, socializing, and when they find time, hit a ball. Not repairing divots and ball marks are a forgone conclusion. There is no concept of "ready golf" even though that was explained on the first tee and I haven't see a group "wave up" someone on a par 3 in years. It's mostly business people who took up the game because "businessmen play golf", but truely have no respect for the game and tradition. If it sounds like a rant, I am a golf pro at a higher end daily-fee course in Connecticut, and I have had to listen to slow play complaints constantly all season (and last), and the things mentioned above are always present when we try to address the issue. To improve pace of play, we spread out tee times and the only thing that changed was revenue and not pace. I'm sorry, but if you are one of these "golfers" that thinks 5-6 hours is acceptable, quit golf and do the rest of us a favor because the number one reason that people are leaving the game is pace of play issues, and that is an even bigger issue.

[Viking Golfer]

[b]I like to play fast, but as soon as I can see several groups in front of our group - I accept that this day will be another slow going day at the golf course.

I will then try to adjust my tempo a bit to the slow tempo in front of us by slowing my pace down a bit. Hit two practice shots instead of just one, read puts more thoroughly and son on..........this will help me for the rest of the day, so I can enjoy the day and still keep a steady rhythm going for the rest of the round.[/b]

[M-Grind]

Because it ruins my rhythm.

Having to wait over every shot causes more anxiety and gets annoying.

I hate slow play.

[Onebulldogs]

If you want to stand around a smell the roses, why not go to an arboretum?

Golf is a sport that demands concentration and a certain amount of tempo. Both are difficult to maintain when a round consists of 5 1/2 hours of:
1. Walk to ball - wait five minutes in the fairway
2. Putt out and find 2 groups waiting on the next tee. 20 minutes later you get to tee off.

Most slow golfers are selfish a-holes who should be banned from the course unless they let faster groups play through.

Everywhere else in the world, golf is a 3-4 hour event. In the U.S, a-holes have made it a 5 to 5.5 hour marathon I call the "waiting game."

[Swingtheclub]

[quote name='nightwalker' post='826175' date='Dec 16 2007, 03:57 AM']Not to piss anyone off, but the biggest problem with pace of play is that too many of the people who come to my course are not "golfers". By that I mean: The idea of a round is carts, beer, socializing, and when they find time, hit a ball. Not repairing divots and ball marks are a forgone conclusion. There is no concept of "ready golf" even though that was explained on the first tee and I haven't see a group "wave up" someone on a par 3 in years. It's mostly business people who took up the game because "businessmen play golf", but truely have no respect for the game and tradition. If it sounds like a rant, I am a golf pro at a higher end daily-fee course in Connecticut, and I have had to listen to slow play complaints constantly all season (and last), and the things mentioned above are always present when we try to address the issue. To improve pace of play, we spread out tee times and the only thing that changed was revenue and not pace. I'm sorry, but if you are one of these "golfers" that thinks 5-6 hours is acceptable, quit golf and do the rest of us a favor because the number one reason that people are leaving the game is pace of play issues, and that is an even bigger issue.[/quote]


So as a golf pro you would rather these people quit coming to your course? Unless your course is primarily walkers letting someone hit up on par 3's slows play down as much as anything, I am not sure it does not slow play down on walking courses.

Note in two sentences you talk about ready golf and tradition is not the honor and who is away part of golfs tradition.

How about we hire midgets with whips to chase groups around

Around here a slow day would be a tournament round that takes five hours or a regular round that takes four and a half.

Most of our rounds are about four hours and if the course is not crowded between three and three and a half.

So maybe I have got it made and do not know it. Just the same they piss and moan every day about slow play.

well it rained all night here and the wind is supposed to blow up to 30 miles and hour today. I sit here trying to make a decision to play or not.

[Onebulldogs]

[quote name='nightwalker' post='826175' date='Dec 16 2007, 03:57 AM']Not to piss anyone off, but the biggest problem with pace of play is that too many of the people who come to my course are not "golfers". By that I mean: The idea of a round is carts, beer, socializing, and when they find time, hit a ball. Not repairing divots and ball marks are a forgone conclusion. There is no concept of "ready golf" even though that was explained on the first tee and I haven't see a group "wave up" someone on a par 3 in years. It's mostly business people who took up the game because "businessmen play golf", but truely have no respect for the game and tradition. If it sounds like a rant, I am a golf pro at a higher end daily-fee course in Connecticut, and I have had to listen to slow play complaints constantly all season (and last), and the things mentioned above are always present when we try to address the issue. To improve pace of play, we spread out tee times and the only thing that changed was revenue and not pace. I'm sorry, but if you are one of these "golfers" that thinks 5-6 hours is acceptable, quit golf and do the rest of us a favor because the number one reason that people are leaving the game is pace of play issues, and that is an even bigger issue.[/quote]

I quit a round at a high-end daily fee course in CT this summer. Total time: 5 hours and 15 minutes and we were waiting on the 15th tee box. When you consider it takes 30 minutes to get there, 30 minutes to warm up, and 30 minutes to get home, the fiance/wife can get rightfully p'd off if I am gone for 8 hours on a Saturday.

[Golfdog]

These are the attitudes that perpetuate slow play. I hate having to wait between shots--whether it is for the group ahead or because one of my playing partners has a list to go through before he putts. Imagine playing a game of basketball where you had to stop for one minute between each possession. That would be ridiculous. Yet we accept these interminable pauses in golf. There's no reason that you can't play golf in 3-1/2 hours and still be comfortable, sociable and unrushed. Golf already takes too long. It would be nice to be able to get up early, go play and be back home by 10:30 am or 11 am rather than 1 pm or 1:30 pm (which can easily happen these days).

[Viking Golfer]

Instead of being annoyed over something you/we obviously can't do anything about, why not play 9 holes instead of 18 and use a total of 4-4½ hours including practice and a beer at the club house after the game - and then be able to get home to the girlFriend/wife and kids ?

I often choose to play 9 holes, if I only have 4 hours total (including practice, beer at club house and transport to and from the club).
This calms me down and I don't worry too much, if the course is flooded with slow playing 'golfers' that particular day.

Remember that golf is not considered a sport by many, but a game.

I know a lot of older guys (60+ years old) at my club, that play golf for the fun of it and [b]ALSO[/b] because they get to walk around in a beautiful scenery, which they feel they can enjoy and look at, while playing golf.
When these guys bump into the fast playing low handicap golfers, that play golf to score low and not to look at the trees, they sometimes let them through, sometimes not.

[alcap26]

I don't like slow play because it slows the natural ebb and flow of the game and my back tightens up if I have to do too much standing and waiting and afterwards I hurt.

[nightwalker]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='826234' date='Dec 16 2007, 07:36 AM'][quote name='nightwalker' post='826175' date='Dec 16 2007, 03:57 AM']Not to piss anyone off, but the biggest problem with pace of play is that too many of the people who come to my course are not "golfers". By that I mean: The idea of a round is carts, beer, socializing, and when they find time, hit a ball. Not repairing divots and ball marks are a forgone conclusion. There is no concept of "ready golf" even though that was explained on the first tee and I haven't see a group "wave up" someone on a par 3 in years. It's mostly business people who took up the game because "businessmen play golf", but truely have no respect for the game and tradition. If it sounds like a rant, I am a golf pro at a higher end daily-fee course in Connecticut, and I have had to listen to slow play complaints constantly all season (and last), and the things mentioned above are always present when we try to address the issue. To improve pace of play, we spread out tee times and the only thing that changed was revenue and not pace. I'm sorry, but if you are one of these "golfers" that thinks 5-6 hours is acceptable, quit golf and do the rest of us a favor because the number one reason that people are leaving the game is pace of play issues, and that is an even bigger issue.[/quote]


So as a golf pro you would rather these people quit coming to your course? Unless your course is primarily walkers letting someone hit up on par 3's slows play down as much as anything, I am not sure it does not slow play down on walking courses.

Note in two sentences you talk about ready golf and tradition is not the honor and who is away part of golfs tradition.

How about we hire midgets with whips to chase groups around

Around here a slow day would be a tournament round that takes five hours or a regular round that takes four and a half.

Most of our rounds are about four hours and if the course is not crowded between three and three and a half.

So maybe I have got it made and do not know it. Just the same they piss and moan every day about slow play.

well it rained all night here and the wind is supposed to blow up to 30 miles and hour today. I sit here trying to make a decision to play or not.
[/quote]

The short answer is yes because we lose several "regulars" every year to other facilities that are better at enforcing pace of play policies. Our mgmt. company doesn't have the stomach for it and our reputation has suffered. I wish I was in your shoes where a regular round takes 4.5 hrs and a tournament round takes 5, because I would have no reason to complain, hell, I would nearly give up my left arm for your pace of play. If you read some of the other posts, I don't think you will find anybody complaining about a 4.5 hour round. (By the way, the NGF determined that the average round of golf on a weekend at a public facility in the U.S. lasted nearly 5.5 hours). As to the poster that walked off the CT golf course, I think I know where you were playing, and if so, I hope either myself or someone else gave you a rain check.

[withdrew]

You guys don't know what slow is.

Try a New York City municipal course. The fastest rounds are 4-5 hours. I've played rounds over 6 hours easy.

Lots of good points are being made, but there is a world of difference between "smelling the roses" and playing behind guys that don't know when to pick up their ball.

When I started playing golf seriously, BEFORE I EVER PLAYED AN 18 PAR 72, I went to a pitch & putt probably 100 times in one season, ON WEEKDAYS to get my swing and confidence. Most of the time I had the course to myself, or with my playing partner. After I felt comfortable, I felt I had graduated to a 9 hole course (no par 5's) where I proceeded to play another 100 rounds of WEEKDAY golf.

Fast forward to last season, where I called up one of my friends (above average golfer, shoots in the 70's-80's consistently) and asked him if he wanted to shoot a round @ Dyker Beach GC (I believe the busiest public course in the Northeast, perhaps the US?)- and we set something up for a busy Saturday. I hadn't played with him since high school (I'm 31 now) so as far as he remembered, I wasn't very good.

Anyway, I shot a 90 that day, and he said he'd join me any time, anywhere for a round. He was pleasantly surprised (so was I actually) and he said I could pretty much play anywhere without making a fool of myself, and I was thrilled.

Moral of the story, PRACTICE on WEEKDAYS until you can get the ball consistently airborne before clogging up a round on a Saturday on a busy course.

[nightwalker]

[quote name='withdrew' post='826404' date='Dec 16 2007, 11:17 AM']You guys don't know what slow is.

Try a New York City municipal course. The fastest rounds are 4-5 hours. I've played rounds over 6 hours easy.

Lots of good points are being made, but there is a world of difference between "smelling the roses" and playing behind guys that don't know when to pick up their ball.

When I started playing golf seriously, BEFORE I EVER PLAYED AN 18 PAR 72, I went to a pitch & putt probably 100 times in one season, ON WEEKDAYS to get my swing and confidence. Most of the time I had the course to myself, or with my playing partner. After I felt comfortable, I felt I had graduated to a 9 hole course (no par 5's) where I proceeded to play another 100 rounds of WEEKDAY golf.

Fast forward to last season, where I called up one of my friends (above average golfer, shoots in the 70's-80's consistently) and asked him if he wanted to shoot a round @ Dyker Beach GC (I believe the busiest public course in the Northeast, perhaps the US?)- and we set something up for a busy Saturday. I hadn't played with him since high school (I'm 31 now) so as far as he remembered, I wasn't very good.

Anyway, I shot a 90 that day, and he said he'd join me any time, anywhere for a round. He was pleasantly surprised (so was I actually) and he said I could pretty much play anywhere without making a fool of myself, and I was thrilled.

Moral of the story, PRACTICE on WEEKDAYS until you can get the ball consistently airborne before clogging up a round on a Saturday on a busy course.[/quote]

You actually bring up a point that could be an entire new thread. The accessibility (or lack thereof) of short courses that are either par 3 or executive lengths to help develop new players or to give options to those who are short on time. When I grew up, I did the same thing and by the time I got to a regulation course, I felt like a veteran. It's too bad that all the courses being built are 7400 yards with slopes of 130+, when what we really need are some good quality short courses and practice facilities. I know that short courses don't have the "real estate appeal" but we really do not need any more 7400 yd, $150+ green fee monsters.

[stevepoz]

Why do I hate slow play?

Time is a finite resource. It is difficult enough to find time for family things with the demands for work. I love to play golf, but, given the choice, would I rather have a 3.5 hour round on a Saturday morning in the summer and then have 2 hours at the pool with my wife and kids or sit behind a abysmally slow group in front of me during a 5.5 hour round? Hmm, that is a really tough choice.

Let me ask you this: Given the choice, do you pick the long lines at the grocery or other store or the short lines? Do you drive the minumum speed on the interstates (40 mph in most places) or the speed limit (be it 55, 60, 65 or 70)?

You can probably guess I pick the shorter lines and not drive at the minimum speed (not admitting, of course to driving faster than the posted limit )

[Onebulldogs]

[quote name='ClubHoUno' post='826326' date='Dec 16 2007, 09:56 AM']When these guys bump into the fast playing low handicap golfers, that play golf to score low and not to look at the trees, they sometimes let them through, sometimes not.[/quote]

With your post, you have identified the crux of the problem. Certain people are not golfers; however, they insist on going to golf courses to take up space. Golf is a game of honor and etiquette. Playing slow and intentionally holding up groups is selfish and dishonorable behavior.

Try checking out the USGA's website - [url="http://www.usga.org/playing/etiquette/etiquette.html"]http://www.usga.org/playing/etiquette/etiquette.html[/url]

Key Points:
1. Etiquette: This section provides guidelines on the manner in which the game of golf should be played. If they are followed, all players will gain maximum enjoyment from the game. The overriding principle is that consideration should be shown to others on the course at all times.
2. Play at Good Pace and Keep Up: Players should play at a good pace. The Committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow. It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group.
3. Be Ready to Play: Players should be ready to play as soon as it is their turn to play. When playing on or near the putting green, they should leave their bags or carts in such a position as will enable quick movement off the green and towards the next tee. When the play of a hole has been completed, players should immediately leave the putting green.

If someone is unwilling to abide by the etiquette required of a Golfer, they should stay home.

[Swingtheclub]

[quote name='Tenementrock' post='826642' date='Dec 16 2007, 03:11 PM'][quote name='kenk7us2002' post='826234' date='Dec 16 2007, 07:36 AM']Most of our rounds are about four hours and if the course is not crowded between three and three and a half.

So maybe I have got it made and do not know it.[/quote]

Yup, there's your answer right there. Some of us are used to 5.5 - 6 hour rounds. What is aggravating is that slow play is caused by inconsiderate or downright clueless behavior, like misuse of power carts, not-ready golf, and general ignorance of the concept of 'pace of play'.
[/quote]


Ready golf is something I am not wild about but I do not mind it we only do it mostly on the tee depends on the group and the hole.

I just always liked the honor system and letting the player that is away play first.

What I can not comprehend is how power carts can slow down play. I have heard carts blamed for a lot of things but come on enlighten me.

[Viking Golfer]

[quote name='Onebulldogs' post='826578' date='Dec 16 2007, 08:10 PM'][quote name='ClubHoUno' post='826326' date='Dec 16 2007, 09:56 AM']When these guys bump into the fast playing low handicap golfers, that play golf to score low and not to look at the trees, they sometimes let them through, sometimes not.[/quote]

With your post, you have identified the crux of the problem. Certain people are not golfers; however, they insist on going to golf courses to take up space. Golf is a game of honor and etiquette. Playing slow and intentionally holding up groups is selfish and dishonorable behavior.

Try checking out the USGA's website - [url="http://www.usga.org/playing/etiquette/etiquette.html"]http://www.usga.org/playing/etiquette/etiquette.html[/url]

Key Points:
1. Etiquette: This section provides guidelines on the manner in which the game of golf should be played. If they are followed, all players will gain maximum enjoyment from the game. The overriding principle is that consideration should be shown to others on the course at all times.
2. Play at Good Pace and Keep Up: Players should play at a good pace. The Committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow. It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group.
3. Be Ready to Play: Players should be ready to play as soon as it is their turn to play. When playing on or near the putting green, they should leave their bags or carts in such a position as will enable quick movement off the green and towards the next tee. When the play of a hole has been completed, players should immediately leave the putting green.

If someone is unwilling to abide by the etiquette required of a Golfer, they should stay home.

[/quote]

Look here, I know the rules very well - you really don't have to teach me the rules, my friend.
I'm just telling you and others in here, that it's a waste of time to moan and groan on the slow playing so called "golfers". They don't read in here - that's for sure

I try to "teach" rookies what to do and NOT to do, when I'm playing golf out there on the course - but I can't and won't teach anything to a 60+ year old guy, who has been playing golf for a life time - and probably started playing before I was even born. I can file a complaint to the club and pro and that's about it.
So to still enjoy the game of golf, I look at what I can do to still be able to play golf and at the same time not spend 6-8 hours on it, two times a week.
Playing 9 holes two times a week seems to be the best solution for me right now.

[Ghost_Orchid]

I hate slow play myself. There's a course in upstate NY, (Saratoga National?) that has GPS devices on all carts, and they enforce the pace of play. You slack off, the rangers will be on you to speed things up. Its expensive though, its sucks having to pay to play fast.

I spent 3 monts on the range hitting balls, and chipping and putting before I even step on a golf course. I run into ppl on the weekend playing golf after they've only being playing for a day or so. For the hackers or the ppl that cant' play, how can you even enjoy a round not being able to get the ball up?

Ok, i'm done.

[larrybud]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='826671' date='Dec 16 2007, 03:31 PM']What I can not comprehend is how power carts can slow down play. I have heard carts blamed for a lot of things but come on enlighten me.[/quote]

Sure. Let's take a par 4, for example, the group in front of you plays their 2nd shots, and you all hit. Now, with walkers, you're generally going to get to your ball before the group gets off the green. So you're at your ball, and your 3 buddies are waiting to hit at their ball. The four shots are then accomplished in short order because everyone is ready to hit when it's their turn.

Now take cart players that don't know how to use a cart. Cart #1 sits at Player #1's ball until player #1 hits. Then cart #1 drives to player #2 ball. Player #2 now has to get his yardage, pick his club, take his shot, get back in the cart.

Cart #2 has to do the same thing with players #3 and 4.

Now, multiply this by a couple of players that aren't very good, and taking several shots to reach the green, and this routine is repeated over and over.

I DO believe that a cart driven by a player that knows what he's doing can reduce play time as long as the cart isn't limited as to where it can go, but even then much of that time is offset by the extra time it takes to drive around a green or tee box, where as a walker can move in a straight line.

Toss in "cart path only" and you've REALLY made things worse!

[steventoo]

I get very irritated when a round of golf takes me longer than 4 hours. I've walked off on the 15th at 5.5 hours. My regular golf partner and I usually walk a round in just over three hours. Sometimes a little longer, sometimes a little less.

I hate waiting between shots - I lose concentration and rhythm and focus. I get frustrated when I see hacks ruining the course - not repairing divots, not fixing pitch marks, not raking bunkers, littering, walking where they shouldn't (up the face of bunkers really irks me), and so on.

My father is a member at my club, but not for long. He used to play in the regular Tuesday, Saturday, and Sunday men's competitions but the management of the course has dropped the ball and don't really care that on most of those days, a round takes close to 6 hours. It wouldn't take much to speed things up, but they refuse to do it.

Dad's "solution" is quite novel. He's buying a membership at a club in Singapore (at 10 times the cost of a membership here) with full reciprocal membership rights. That way he "doesn't have to give these useless bastards any money" but is still allowed to use the club as he is now, and also gets to play golf whenever he's in Singapore (which is never).

Slow play... it makes people go crazy

[wkuo3]

More fish in the aquarium, you're bond to have someone not following the rules and not display courtesy to others.
One piece of advise, most of the golf courses tend to pay attention to the speed of play in the morning prime time groups ( first 3-4 hours of tee time ), they don't care of the later tee time because there ain't no more groups behind. so get on an earlier tee time if you could.
IMO, it's the golf courses duty to have all palyers keep up with the minimum speed of play according to the golf course layout and condition. If the guys running the show do not care, as a consumer I'd go tell them what I think and if they still don't care, I'd take my pennies somewhere else to spend.
Bottom line hurts, believe me; anyone runs a golf course at 5 hours plus per round won't be long they either change management or sell out to someone else.

[Swingtheclub]

Its sounds like to me its not the carts that are the problem but the operators. At my home course if anything slows up play its usually walkers. Then again eighty percent of the play is in a cart.




Now lets get into the second part of the question.

Many of you have stated "I hate waiting between shots - I lose concentration and rhythm and focus. " In a nutshell we have about twenty of you saying the same thing it ruins focus kills your rhythm etc etc etc.


Thats cool now here comes the big question.

Every place I have ever played tournament play is slower way slower than regular play.

This screams my question [b]"What the hell do you do when its a tournament?"[/b]