Man or Myth

[Swingtheclub]

why Hogan

I ask this in the Senior thread but I reall do not care who answers.

It seems like every other thread that talks about the golf swing on this website is about Ben Hogan.

For some people on this forum he is the icon the perfect swing.

Now personally I have seen a lot of swings I liked better.

Why are we not talking about Arnies swing or Jacks, How about Byrons or Sam Sneads how about Tom Weiskofs swing or Tom Watsons Hell how about Bruce Lieteski's or Hale Irwin's

How about Adam Scott or Phil or Tiger There are so many great golf swings. Why does this forum dwell on one.

Is it myth or am I missing something and was Hogan making the perfect swing. Me I aways thought it was too flat too loose and had too much rotation not to mention being too long. There were other things but mainly it was a motion I did not like.

I guess what I am asking is do you guys really think his swing was the ultimate idea?


Do you guys really believe he knew the secret?

[NikeDD59]

Great thread, I am anxious to see the guru's say. I agree, I am tired of hearing hogan as well and think he is often mentioned since he has a few books and theories which paint a good picture of positions.

[Ezgolfer]

[i][b]I am tired of hearing hogan as well and think he is often mentioned since he has a few books and theories which paint a good picture of positions.[/b][/i]


OOOO......
You are in for serious beating soon..
BTW i watched Hogan vs Snead DVD last week. The commentator described Mr Hogan as ... the man... the swing machine .
He is respected because he was the best ball striker with a beautiful swing translated into victories despite average to good putting . Not a lot of people have that combinations

[Swingtheclub]

[quote name='Ezgolfer' post='829690' date='Dec 18 2007, 10:35 PM'][i][b]I am tired of hearing hogan as well and think he is often mentioned since he has a few books and theories which paint a good picture of positions.[/b][/i]


OOOO......
You are in for serious beating soon..
BTW i watched Hogan vs Snead DVD last week. The commentator described Mr Hogan as ... the man... the swing machine .
He is respected because he was the best ball striker with a beautiful swing translated into victories despite average to good putting . Not a lot of people have that combinations[/quote]

EZ there will come the first thing we can argue about. I will leave it to the Hogan historians to tell us who is right.

Hogan had the yips bad late in his carreer he would not even play. But it was my understanding through out most of his career he was a wonderful putter.

[wkuo3]

Many sources said Hogan had lost eye sight in one of his eye later in his career ( I believe his left eye from the automobile accident he had ). It was told that's why he could not put well in those years.
Hogan, the wee iceman, always would be my hero for golf. I respect his way about golf, about life. .

[iyan7]

I just thought his swing is the most graceful, smoothest swing... for a man, as compared to the powerful athletic swings of those that followed, IMO.

[hoganfan924]

Besides the fact that the vast majority of his contemporaries and others who saw him in competition and hitting balls consider him the greatest ballstriker that ever lived (Including Nicklaus, Player and J. Miller), I wrote this in August:

[quote]Gave this a lot of thought last night. While I have the highest respect and admiration for Hogan, I don't believe in false idol's and never have. Met plently of golfers and celebrities in my life and never asked one for an autograph. But as a golfer who is intensely passionate about understanding the golf swing, here is an analogy I drew that might put things in better perspective as to why I'm so fascinated by Hogan:

Imagine a current "journeyman" PGA tour pro who's been on the tour for 9 years, and is a great putter but hasn't won or only has one or two wins. Let's pick Chris Riley, 8 years on tour, 1 win, great putter, average ballstriker.

Now, imagine that Chis suddenly wins 5 or 6 tournaments in the next year or two, then gets drafted into the military, spends 2.5 years there and comes back. Then he immediately starts winning big, tells his buddies on tour that he "has a secret," wins 5 to 13 tournaments a year for the next 4 or 5 years, wins 3 majors, while at the same time, his putting begins to deteriorate a little. Then when he is at the pinnacle of his success, he has a near fatal car accident, loses sight in his left eye, has his shoulders broken, blot clots in his legs that require major ateries to be tied off and leaves him with lifelong leg pain. He comes back in ten months and loses in a playoff to Tiger Woods in his first tournament (while 3 putting 11 times). His putting continues to deteriorate badly and he becomes one of the worst putters on tour. But he plays a limited schedule for the next several years and wins 6 more majors. His FIR and GIR numbers are off the charts and lead the rest of the tour by a longshot in those stat's, but can't putt to save his life (but still well enough to win those 6 majors). He wins the US Open 4 times and the British the only time he ever plays it.

You noticed that his swing has changed over the years and around the time that he starts winning. Now, wouldn't you be fascinated with how Chris managed to do all of that?

That's why I and others like me continue to be fascinated by the man.[/quote]

Ken,

Hogan was a very good putter early in his career. He lost most of his vision in his left eye after the accident in '49 and his short putting deteriorated very badly. That he could win 6 Majors (what he won after the accident) with such poor putting was testament to how good a ballstriker he was. It has been reported that in '53 at Carnoustie, including the qualifying rounds (which Hogan had to play in), out of I believe 108 tee shots, Hogan missed 1 fairway, ONE!

Despite not winning for his first 8 years on tour and his last 11 years on tour, his lifetime winning percentage was over 25% and he finished top 3 in over 1/2 of the tournaments he entered. Far superior to Snead or Nicklaus in those numbers.

Between the war and his accident, he missed out on the opportunity to play in 20 majors during the peak of his career, yet still managed to win 9 majors and 64 tournaments.

Look at this video and tell me that isn't one of the greatest golf swings you've ever seen:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0[/url]
He was 53 years old with two bad legs and very painful shoulder Amioclavicular joints!

I strongly believe Hogan was the archetype of the modern "big muscle" rotational golf swing and to this day it remains one of the best ever. Certainly can be argued based on [b]results[/b] that it remains the best ever.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='Ezgolfer' post='829690' date='Dec 18 2007, 10:35 PM'][i][b]I am tired of hearing hogan as well and think he is often mentioned since he has a few books and theories which paint a good picture of positions.[/b][/i]


OOOO......
You are in for serious beating soon..
BTW i watched Hogan vs Snead DVD last week. The commentator described Mr Hogan as ... the man... the swing machine .
He is respected because he was the best ball striker with a beautiful swing translated into victories despite average to good putting . Not a lot of people have that combinations[/quote]

The other commentator at the end of the match said: "Ben, that was the finest round of golf I've ever seen in my lifetime!" The commentators name: Gene Sarazen. He says to Snead, "Sam, you ran into Superman today." The admiration that Sarazen has for Hogan throughout the commentary is quite evident.

Hogan hit every fairway and green in the match, played at the Houston CC at 7056 yds.

Think I've watched that one a few times? lol

[gentles]

hmmm, very interested to hear a response here......like a lot of other people I expect also.

[Swingtheclub]

I can easily tell you its not one of the best swings I have ever seen. I am just not that wild about it.


Also my friend Moe Norman was also spoken of as the best ball striker ever do you think he had a secret. Or that everyone should swing the club and grip it like him.

Also I do not care whom you are you do not win majors putting badly.

Also thankyou for confirming my point Hogan was a very good putter before the accident , I am sure he was not too bad later until he got the yips.

The point I am trying to make is very simple. I am not trying to tear down Hogan or what he accomplished. What he did after the acciddent was pretty incredible speaking way more about his heart than anything else.

But there has been a hell of a lot of incredible players and golf swings, in my opinion just as good or better. We do not talk about them.

Johnny Miller and Nicklaus were kids when Hogan was in his prime Sam Snead who Hogan played a lot with him and thought Nelson was the better player.

Was Hogan as good as people say or just like the fishing story where the fish just keeps getting bigger?

It is even possible that Hogan had no secret at all . It took years for him to get his swing to work and no telling how many practice balls. I know people with some of the ugliest swings ever that hit the ball great because they can repeat it. Maybe it just took Hogan ten years to learn to repeat it?

Mostly I am just questioning just think about it.

[Pharminda]

I've never seen Hogan play in the flesh or any of the video's either. I have seen some of the clips on U-tube that have been pointed out on this site. I won't comment on his swing because i don't know enough about it to offer a fair critique......
All i can say is that i have to take my hat off to a person who works so hard at any career, it takes massive amounts of self belief and character to persist with a goal to the extent that Hogan did. The easiest thing for most people in his case would have been to give up and Hogan had the perfect 'excuse' in the car accident. It just goes to show what can be achieved when a person really puts their mind to it. Its hard to knock such a hard, honest trier!!!! I had a coach who drilled a motto in to us it was to 'have a go'.....

[PurePursuit]

Johnny Miller was an average putter and won a few majors. Kenk I am blown away....I just don't understand how blind someone has to be to not see the simple beauty in Hogans swing. Slice posted a great story not too long ago that also does a good job of relaying his other allure (the man he was beyond golf). Hoganfan your post was a great read, thanks for sharing the insight. Kenk the players you listed before are all still undergoing swing changes, Tiger and Adam Scott in particular, how many thousands of balls do you think they are hitting right now with Adam trying to shorten his swing and Tiger trying to rid himself of the sling flip action with the driver. Wake up!

[Ezgolfer]

Here is Wikipedia on Hogan 's ball striking...( I love wikipedia......)

Hogan is widely acknowledged to have been the best ball striker ever.
[i][b]
Hogan's ball striking has been described as being of near miraculous caliber by very knowledgeable observers such as Jack Nicklaus, who only saw him play some years after his prime. Nicklaus once responded to the question, "Is Tiger Woods the best ball striker you have ever seen?" with, "No, no - Ben Hogan, easily" (Golf Digest, April 2004).[/b][/i]

[i][b]Further testimony to Hogan's (and Norman's) status among top golfers is provided by Tiger Woods, who recently said that he wished to "own his (golf) swing" in the same way as Moe Norman and Hogan had. Woods claimed that this pair were the only players ever to have "owned their swings", in that they had total control of it and, as a result, of the ball's flight [/b][/i](Golf Digest, January 2005).

Although his ball striking was perhaps the greatest ever, Hogan is also known to have at times been a very poor putter by professional standards, particularly on slow greens. The majority of his putting problems developed after his car accident in 1949. Towards the end of his career, he would stand over the ball, in some cases for minutes, before drawing the putter back. It was written in the Hogan Biography, Ben Hogan: An American Life, that Hogan had damaged one of his eyes and that poor vision added to his putting problems.

[hoganfan924]

Borrowed from CEgolf.com:

Here are a few quotes about Ben Hogan from Tom Weiskopf, Tommy Bolt, and Jack Nicklaus, all of whom happened to be pretty good players:

Weiskopf: Every time I'd play with him [Ben Hogan], I could play pretty well—I felt like I was a caddie. I felt like I shouldn't even be out there. He played that much better than anybody else, in my mind, in my estimation, of the players that I ever saw play the game.

Bolt, from a Golf Digest interview (5/04): We used to play $5 greens and fairways. Boy, don't you think he [Hogan] was tough. I'm telling you, you could lose your a-- with him hitting almost every fairway and green. He hardly ever missed one.
Bolt, when in the same interview was asked "who was the best driver of the ball?": Hogan. He was long and straight. Very long. He and I used to have driving contests. Arrivederci, man. I put that son of a b---h out there and I would say, "Catch that, you little c--------r." Boy, and he would—whoosh! Whipped those f-----g hands through there—he was the greatest player I ever played with. If he could putt 25 percent as well as Palmer could, he would have won 50 more tournaments. Don't forget that he made all the putts he had to make to win his nine majors.

Editor's note introducing a Golf Digest article: When Jack Nicklaus was asked recently whether Tiger Woods is the greatest ball-striker he's ever seen, he replied quickly, "No, no -- Ben Hogan, easily." Nicklaus has seen much of Woods over the last few years and last played with Hogan in the late 1960s -- almost 20 years after Hogan had left his prime. Still, Hogan's power, precision and control was such that it left an enduring impression on the greatest golfer of all time.

And you ask why we're not talking about Weiskopf's or Nicklaus' swings?

[Swingtheclub]

Shagshow Miller won two majors and was a marvelous putter back then anything but average.

As for Hogans swing I dont love it for a lot of reasons which have nothing to do with this thread.

Calling me blind and telling me to wake up is just rude I have been passionate and playing and studying this game twice as long as you have been born.


EZ Wickopedia is a Joke anyone can post there and edit it.

Fan like I said Snead did not , I think his ball striking and everything else has grown some with the myth

But the thread is not about that its about why everyone seems to think his swing is the model for all time.

Why other swings are not revered in the same manner.

By the way Andy North told me Palmer was the best ball striker he ever saw and Gary Player said the same about Trevino

Azinger said it about Moe Norman LOL

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='830126' date='Dec 19 2007, 10:13 AM']By the way Andy North told me Palmer was the best ball striker he ever saw and Gary Player said the same about Trevino

Azinger said it about Moe Norman LOL[/quote]

Gary Player told me in person last summer - "Ben Hogan was the greatest player from tee to green that ever lived." His comment was only prompted when someone asked him if Tiger was the greatest. He added that Tiger is the greatest overall player.

How many PGA tour wins did Moe Norman have? Majors? Moe "owned" his swing for sure. Super repeatable and accurate. Not very long though from what I've heard. I'd consider Moe a "golfing Savant" so a special case sort of like a golfing "rainman." Hogan, while obviously very gifted didn't have that, he had to build it from scratch. Said himself when he first joined the tour he was a terrible player. Took him 8 years to win his first individual title.

Ken, did you not notice that the quotes in wikepedia came directly from Golf Digest?

[DRGJR72]

Top Five ball strikers that I have either seen or heard about are Ben Hogan, Moe Norman, Lee Trevino, Mac O'Grady, Tiger Woods. Yet, they all swing the club differently.

I think the reason that Hogan is so revered is not only his story and work ethic, but his secrecy of it all. Similar to Moe Norman in a way....kind of like you hear about all this stuff second hand, and you are like WOW!!!! That is crazy. Not to mention that when you have peer after peer saying you are the best ball striker ever, there is some merit to it (at least in my opinion).

Now some people may have prettier swings than others but if we are talking about ball striking, I feel confident that one of the guys on my list would be right up there as the best.

The prettyness of a swing is very subjective...like Ken has said he did not like the way that Hogans swing looked to him, that is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Just like someone might not like the way that Tiger swings it....there will be x number of people that say you are crazy. This part of the equation is very subjective.

Hogan is a legend and will always be, so whether he had a secret or not, does not matter much to me. He was a tireless worker that made himself into one of, if not the best, ball strikers ever. That might be the best thing that he left as a legacy....hard work pays off. Look at Greg Norman and Faldo, now Tiger like them before. They were the hardest workers out there, now Tiger has taken over that title of hardest worker and look at what he has done. Very similar to Hogan in that he worked his butt off to get where he is. Maybe that was his secret, work harder than everyone else.

DG

[Swingtheclub]

Ok we will try this one more time.

The question is not if Hogan was a great ball striker or the greatest we all know he became great.

The question is was his ball striking a result of his great golf swing or the practice he did digging it out of the dirt I think he practiced so much it became repeatable thats why it took so many years.

Thats the point of the thread not to rag on Hogan. But to try and understand why so many of you worship his swing and not others.

He may have practiced to the point he was sharper than others but was the swing superior.


Let me tell you something when I was younger and hitting it well I had no doubt I could hit the ball as well as anyone on the planet.

The problem was how consistent was I if I swang the club the way I was supposed to was my swing then perfect? I doubt it.


Again the point is why do you love the swing so much?

I may explain later in detail why I do not.

[PurePursuit]

Kenk I must apologize, although I was trying not to target you out indirectly when commenting on how it is beyond me for someone not to see the greatness in hogans swing it is clear that was impossible. I did not mean to disrespect you in my post however I did and I'm sorry for that. DRG I agree with you there, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and its tough to accurately gauge the effectiveness of someones swing purely through its aesthetics; in fact its impossible. I will just say that I really loved how hogan coiled and uncoiled during his swing in such a smooth manner. I'll leave this one to the experts.
Sorry Kenk.

[Swingtheclub]

[quote name='Shagshow' post='830440' date='Dec 19 2007, 02:36 PM']Kenk I must apologize, although I was trying not to target you out indirectly when commenting on how it is beyond me for someone not to see the greatness in hogans swing it is clear that was impossible. I did not mean to disrespect you in my post however I did and I'm sorry for that. DRG I agree with you there, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and its tough to accurately gauge the effectiveness of someones swing purely through its aesthetics; in fact its impossible. I will just say that I really loved how hogan coiled and uncoiled during his swing in such a smooth manner. I'll leave this one to the experts.
Sorry Kenk.[/quote]


Its cool.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='830427' date='Dec 19 2007, 02:25 PM']Ok we will try this one more time.

The question is not if Hogan was a great ball striker or the greatest we all know he became great.

The question is was his ball striking a result of his great golf swing or the practice he did digging it out of the dirt I think he practiced so much it became repeatable thats why it took so many years.

Thats the point of the thread not to rag on Hogan. But to try and understand why so many of you worship his swing and not others.

He may have practiced to the point he was sharper than others but was the swing superior.


Let me tell you something when I was younger and hitting it well I had no doubt I could hit the ball as well as anyone on the planet.

The problem was how consistent was I if I swang the club the way I was supposed to was my swing then perfect? I doubt it.


Again the point is why do you love the swing so much?

I may explain later in detail why I do not.[/quote]

Ken,

Would love to hear what you don't like about Hogan's swing. But first, let's clarify a couple of things. First, when you asked "why do you love Hogan's swing so much" we have to clarify what swing we're talking about. Kind of like asking someone 30 years from now "why do you like Tiger's swing." Which one? Hogan's swing evolved over time. His pre-1946 swing was a bit overly long in the backswing for my taste. Footage of his '46-49 swing (when he self-admittedly played his best golf) is hard to come by (at least footage that is clearly identified from that time period). That may have been his best swing, but I don't have enough footage of it to be able to conclude that. I have a lot of post accident footage (1950-65) and I really like it. Next, I have to conclude based on what his contemporaries have said and the [b]results[/b], that Hogan's was the most [b]effective and repeatable [/b]swing in the history of the game that was tested in Major championship history.

Second, I think Hogan understood his golf swing as well as anyone in the history of the game, save for perhaps Mac O'grady. Of course, Hogan didn't have the advantage of a camcorder. 5 Lessons to this day, remains the best selling golf instruction book in history. J. Miller (and many other players) call it "The Bible of the Golf Swing." Larry Nelson didn't pick up a golf club 'till he was 21 years old and taught himself from 5 Lessons. For such a brief book, it is packed with information. Almost every sentence that has anything to do with instruction is insightful. The man understood what he wanted to do in his swing and he did it. Yes, I believe he did "dig it out of the dirt" through relentless experimentation and practice. He was the ultimate self-taught player. He finished in the top ten in 241 out of 292 tournaments he played in (82%).

The most important thing that I love about Hogan's swing is the way in which he releases the club. Zero hand manipulation. No stalling or stopping his core to allow out of synch arms to catch up (because he didn't get out of synch), therefore he could utilize the full power of his body to deliver it to the ball. Remember, he was a small man (about 5'8" and 137lbs. in his prime) yet he was never considered a short hitter, far from it, just read the Tommy Bolt quote earlier (Bolt was no slouch when it came to distance). His swing is efficient, very few extra moving parts. The [i][b]only[/b][/i] part of his swing I don't think is great is the lateral move late in his backswing. According to the best sources I have, he was forced to do that move because his battered body would not allow him to set as much weight left as he desired at address. Put a box around his head and see how little his head moves - no wasted motion, no slide, no lift, no dip. He winds up great, achieves a tremendous amount of wrist **** and increases that wrist **** in the early downswing. He unwinds great in the downswing, fully utilizing the power available to him from his powerful glutes, core muscles & (now much weaker) legs. I think his body angles are terrific throughout his swing. He's a little more upright in the face-on view at address than I believe is ideal (I prefer a little more spine tilt rearward), again back to his injuries I believe. His explosiveness, athleticism and extension through and past impact is unparralled IMO, even though his body was badly battered. His footwork is impeccable although his wide stance with the driver does lead to him dragging the right toe in the follow-through (not a big deal IMO) just like Greg Norman used to. His balance is great. The [b]way[/b] he grips the club (not grip strength) is perfect IMO. Jim Hardy states that Hogan had as pure a "one plane" swing as there has ever been. I'd have to agree. Jim McLean states it was "The most athletic swing he'd ever seen." All from a guy who was practically crippled and told he might never walk again after the accident.

I believe his swing was the archetype for the modern body powered rotary golf swing.

To summarize:

Effective, powerful, accurate, impeccable fundamentals, great mechanics. And he was able to swing this way into his 70's in spite of his injuries. What more could you ask for? The best ever, IMO.

Now, I really want to hear what you don't like about it and why.

[ultra45]

when i did my last teaching course the instructor had some swings on video where we couldn't see the ball flight and asked what we would do to change their swing/make them more "efficient"... but if they are hitting the ball where they want to and their swing is repeatable... where's the problem?? according to pelz and the pros he studied... trevino was the best ball striker of all players he watched (his misses were closer to the target than anyone else) and nobody copied his swing... do you judge a person's swing by what it looks like or the results it produces... or some combination of the 2??

[Swingtheclub]

Actually Gary told me and others listening Trevino was the best ball striker in the world . This was at a time I was watching Player trying to hit a fade because he felt he needed it to be competitive with Trevino in the US Open at the time Hogan was no longer competitive.

Again I never questioned that Hogan was a great ball striker, I am not sure he was the greatest. He won a lot of tournaments and a lot of majors . I wonder if we would have discussed Sam's swing more here if he had not screwed up those four Opens.

Why I do not love Hogan's swing is more about why I do not think it should be the model for people trying to learn how to swing..

Hogans swing as Mclean said was indeed very athletic and way to much movement for me. That would be the big thing too flat and too much hip movement , all these gyrations he needed to square the club

It is my opinion that it would take a lot of practice to square the club and hit the ball that way. Mainly because it takes a great sense of timing.

If I am going to use a model swing to teach everyone I am going to use a much simpler swing than Hogans one with a lot less rotation and gyration.

I believe a golf swing should be as simple as possible not all this bio mechanics I find it easier to teach someone to swing a club that never has than to teach them grip and set up. But a good grip and the right set up are a big part of my swing thoughts working.

I swear I will put my swing thoughts down on paper one day and I hope to do so with pics. But what I can pretty much explain in five minutes chatting and demonstrating is going to take a great deal of work to put on paper. I am just not as eloquent writing about movements as some of you are

The bottom line is your right Hogan makes and athletic move and you need to be and athlete to make it. With what I believe about a golf swing I think I can teach anyone from five to 85 and make it easier for them to hit a golf ball well.

If the student is and athlete, my way just has less moving parts.

[PurePursuit]

Isn't gyration and rotation the essence of all great golf swings?

[Swingtheclub]

[quote name='Shagshow' post='830821' date='Dec 19 2007, 08:39 PM']Isn't gyration and rotation the essence of all great golf swings?[/quote]


Not in my humble opinion. Its more like turn bump and turn again almost like a dance step.

One of my favorite swings was Tom Watsons

To give a hint of what I am saying I believe everything that happens in the lower body starts in the upper turn. Hogan was from the ground up I would be more from the shoulders down.

I also believe that a good downswing is the result of a good back swing.

[vmishka]

I was at the 1966 US Open at Olympic club every day from the practice rounds through the playoff.

I followed Hogan in the practice rounds and watched him on the range for at least an hour, standing perhaps 25 feet away.

What I remember most vividly, is the sound of the ball leaving the clubface, shot after shot, perfectly struck. I cannot describe it in words, but it was totally unlike the sound of other shots, including those of Palmer and Casper.

I have been to a lot of golf tournaments but never discovered that sound again until I stood the same distance from Tiger on the range before a PGA Grand Slam of Golf in Hawaii (the year he went eagle-eagle on 18 in the 2nd round and playoff to beat Vijay).

There is something about the quality of their contact as reflected by the sound, that is "unique" in my opinion.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='vmishka' post='831075' date='Dec 20 2007, 12:26 AM']I was at the 1966 US Open at Olympic club every day from the practice rounds through the playoff.

I followed Hogan in the practice rounds and watched him on the range for at least an hour, standing perhaps 25 feet away.

What I remember most vividly, is the sound of the ball leaving the clubface, shot after shot, perfectly struck. I cannot describe it in words, but it was totally unlike the sound of other shots, including those of Palmer and Casper.

I have been to a lot of golf tournaments but never discovered that sound again until I stood the same distance from Tiger on the range before a PGA Grand Slam of Golf in Hawaii (the year he went eagle-eagle on 18 in the 2nd round and playoff to beat Vijay).

There is something about the quality of their contact as reflected by the sound, that is "unique" in my opinion.[/quote]

You're not the only one who's described his unique impact sound. It's been noted by many others. I'll take it as fact. Thanks for the story!

[VAN59]

WOW! Well for my opinion seeing as we are all able to give one. For me personally it is more myth. I have the DVD of The Ben Hogan Collections and really enjoy watching it. I have read the books, all informative. The reason I say myth is because I never got to watch him during his time. I was not affiliated with golf until 2003 when I first started playing after I joined the USAF. What I can say is I read his book and many others, I mean many, self taught myself through that and am scratch from the white and about a 4 from the blue tees. It was not until I bought the DVD and watched for many hours that I completely understand how a golf swing works, and that helped me. The only thing that I found to be dificult to accomplish was the super weak grip. Thats tough, but it promotes the fade! Not sure where all that was going but he is a mythical mentor of mine that I will forever appreciate for helping me understand exactly what I was looking for.

IMO what he did better than anyone else to this date was play golf shots, now days it is 150 to the hole, majority of us are pulling out the 150 club, where as he, from my readings, would play much more club and play a shot. The new golfer of this era lacks control and understanding his ability. Too many books on how to grip it and rip it and not enough importance put on playing shots.

"Play the course, Don't let the course play you!" ALV

[teespoon]

[quote name='V63' post='831130' date='Dec 20 2007, 02:27 AM']WOW! Well for my opinion seeing as we are all able to give one. For me personally it is more myth. I have the DVD of The Ben Hogan Collections and really enjoy watching it. I have read the books, all informative. The reason I say myth is because I never got to watch him during his time. I was not affiliated with golf until 2003 when I first started playing after I joined the USAF. What I can say is I read his book and many others, I mean many, self taught myself through that and am scratch from the white and about a 4 from the blue tees. It was not until I bought the DVD and watched for many hours that I completely understand how a golf swing works, and that helped me. The only thing that I found to be dificult to accomplish was the super weak grip. Thats tough, but it promotes the fade! Not sure where all that was going but he is a mythical mentor of mine that I will forever appreciate for helping me understand exactly what I was looking for.

IMO what he did better than anyone else to this date was play golf shots, now days it is 150 to the hole, majority of us are pulling out the 150 club, where as he, from my readings, would play much more club and play a shot. The new golfer of this era lacks control and understanding his ability. Too many books on how to grip it and rip it and not enough importance put on playing shots.

"Play the course, Don't let the course play you!" ALV[/quote]

In the book ' Ben Hogan..an American life', by Jas Dodson, there are many references to his strategy in tournaments. An example I liked was Hogann telling his caddy to carefully repair the divots from his second shot on a particular hole, as, "...I intend to be here in every round!"

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='V63' post='831130' date='Dec 20 2007, 02:27 AM']The only thing that I found to be dificult to accomplish was the super weak grip. Thats tough, but it promotes the fade![/quote]
V63,

Sadly, this was one of the errors in 5 Lessons that have screwed up thousands of people (myself included for a long time). Carefully reread it. If you grip the club in the way that Hogan [b][i]describes[/i][/b], you won't have a weak grip at all. His description is more like the grip he had in Power Golf. Remember, he stated that his weakening of his grip was a [b][i]personal modification [/i][/b]and not a fundamental. Unfortunately, some of Ravielli's sketches of Hogan's grip were of the grip he actually used and not of the one he described. Hogan said "I turned my hands to the left 1/2." The [b][i]way[/i][/b] he grips it is perfect. The [b][i]strength[/i][/b] of his grip is too weak for the vast majority of players and Hogan (indirectly) said it right in 5 Lessons.