Conceded putt - conditional/mistake?

[Sawgrass]

6 minutes ago, rogolf said:

We're talking about concessions, which are only applicable in match play, so order of play is also important.

Which leads to this potential less-than-amusing possibility:

 

”My four inch putt good?” Player A asks, while his opponent B still has a longer putt.

 

”No.” (So A taps it in.)

 

B responds with, “I recall your out of turn stroke.” 
 

A replaces his ball at four inches, marks and lifts it.

 

B sinks his putt.  A replaces his ball, at which time B concedes it.

 

And a good time was had by all!

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

 

So I guess, yes - sometimes a 4" tap can be a tiresome task as you are wasting time on a virtual formality.

 

 

I see what you mean. Match play tends to be slow on pace so this would slow it down even more 😏

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Sawgrass said:

Which leads to this potential less-than-amusing possibility:

 

”My four inch putt good?” Player A asks, while his opponent B still has a longer putt.

 

”No.” (So A taps it in.)

 

B responds with, “I recall your out of turn stroke.” 
 

A replaces his ball at four inches, marks and lifts it.

 

B sinks his putt.  A replaces his ball, at which time B concedes it.

 

And a good time was had by all!

 

In such an instance, does the player have to replace the ball and mark & lift it? After all, the spot is now known only approximately and the player could just replace his ball when it is his turn to play or just place a mark on the estimated spot.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Mr. Bean

[Sawgrass]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

In such an instance, does the player have to replace the ball and mark & lift it? After all, the spot is now known only approximately and the player could just replace his ball when it is his turn to play or just place a mark on the estimated spot.

Just placing a mark is fine, but IMO you shouldn’t step aside and wait until the next player putts before you clearly establish the spot. You’re required to do what can reasonably be expected to make an accurate determination. 1.3b(2) says in part:

 

• So long as the player does what can be reasonably expected under the circumstances to make an accurate determination, the player’s reasonable judgment will be accepted even if, after the stroke is made, the determination is shown to be wrong by video evidence or other information.

[2bGood]

3 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I see what you mean. Match play tends to be slow on pace so this would slow it down even more 😏

I assume you are being sarcastic. But at our club it does tend to be slow relative to what else is being played. 

 

Very little stroke play is played on a day to day bases as mostly all casual play is match play.  As result a meaningful Match with the added attention people give to putts etc is slower than the casual play occurring on the course. Typically everyone is out in foursomes, if it is part of the single match play events you have two matches in the foursome. In the end marking silly putts slows things down, not to mention the mark getting in the way of other putts. 

 

Is it a big issue? No. Has ever happened to me? No as you need a few conditions:

 

1. Someone who doe not give a 4" putt

2. You need to stand in someones line preventing you form a tap in

3. Someone still not giving you a 4" putt once you call their attention to it

[lchang]

Did we ever get (close to) a consensus?

1. "If you're lying 3, that's good."     This is not a concession if the opponent is lying 4.  .... Right?
2. "That's good if you're lying 3."     Now, in English, this is equivalent to #1.  And yet .... more people would say this is a concession?
3. "That's good .... [3 second pause] ... if you're lying 3."   Like a string-bet in poker!   This is ....  what is this?!

[nsxguy]

6 minutes ago, lchang said:

Did we ever get (close to) a consensus?

1. "If you're lying 3, that's good."     This is not a concession if the opponent is lying 4.  .... Right?
2. "That's good if you're lying 3."     Now, in English, this is equivalent to #1.  And yet .... more people would say this is a concession?
3. "That's good .... [3 second pause] ... if you're lying 3."   Like a string-bet in poker!   This is ....  what is this?!

 

[TwistedSister]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:57 PM, 2bGood said:

 

Not always. From time to time I have played a few stunned guys that are not used to playing Match Play and forget to concede silly puts (4" or 5") I typically tap them in, but I have asked - "is that good" before, if the putts in the way of play and I would be standing on their line to tap it in and I know marking it would be passive aggressive in a bad way for the vibe I want in the match.

If they do not give it and they are out you must mark and let them putt.  The furthest away always has the floor!

[2bGood]

2 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

If they do not give it and they are out you must mark and let them putt.  The furthest away always has the floor!

Not technical true. You are free to play out of turn anytime you like, but your opponent can require to you to replay the shot if they so choose. 

[TwistedSister]

1 minute ago, 2bGood said:

Not technical true. You are free to play out of turn anytime you like, but your opponent can require to you to replay the shot if they so choose. 

And you'd be putting it out all day long! To blatantly and purposely not observe the rules of match play or etiquette is very poor form!

[2bGood]

50 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

And you'd be putting it out all day long! To blatantly and purposely not observe the rules of match play or etiquette is very poor form!

 Interesting take. I am curious how other see this?

 

I would never consider tapping in a 4" putt poor form or a breach of etiquette in match play. Though it is within the rules unless there was some very wild break I would actually find it poor form to make a player re-play a try tap-in that was not given. 

 

 

[Sawgrass]

4 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

 Interesting take. I am curious how other see this?

 

I would never consider tapping in a 4" putt poor form or a breach of etiquette in match play. Though it is within the rules unless there was some very wild break I would actually find it poor form to make a player re-play a try tap-in that was not given. 

 

 

I don’t think it’s poor form, it’s just taking a chance. The poor form is in the failure to concede. (I guess Hacker won’t be inviting me to play!)

[2bGood]

4 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

I don’t think it’s poor form, it’s just taking a chance. The poor form is in the failure to concede. (I guess Hacker won’t be inviting me to play!)

😄 Yes a chance I am happy to take. 

 

It would provide an epic story of the jerk that made you replay tapping a putt in that was sitting on the lip. 

 

 

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, lchang said:

Did we ever get (close to) a consensus?

1. "If you're lying 3, that's good."     This is not a concession if the opponent is lying 4.  .... Right?
2. "That's good if you're lying 3."     Now, in English, this is equivalent to #1.  And yet .... more people would say this is a concession?
3. "That's good .... [3 second pause] ... if you're lying 3."   Like a string-bet in poker!   This is ....  what is this?!

 

All of those are immensely stupid. When you concede the next stroke you concede the next stroke, no ifs. And if you are not aware what is the score of your opponent it is time for you to go home.

[2bGood]

59 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

All of those are immensely stupid. When you concede the next stroke you concede the next stroke, no ifs. And if you are not aware what is the score of your opponent it is time for you to go home.

If you are not aware the score of your opponent you ask. Then decide if you will concede and communicate it. 

[Mr. Bean]

7 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

If you are not aware the score of your opponent you ask. Then decide if you will concede and communicate it. 

 

Precisely.

[Sawgrass]

I don’t get the legality of this debate about conditions being illegal.  “Good/good?”  is clearly a conditional concession, I will concede yours if you concede mine.  A clear parallel to saying, “If that’s for a four, I will concede it.”  
 

Maybe not the most artful way of proceeding, but perhaps a time saver.  If I’m technically wrong, I’d like it proven to me.

[sui generis]

41 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

I don’t get the legality of this debate about conditions being illegal.  “Good/good?”  is clearly a conditional concession, I will concede yours if you concede mine.  A clear parallel to saying, “If that’s for a four, I will concede it.”  
 

Maybe not the most artful way of proceeding, but perhaps a time saver.  If I’m technically wrong, I’d like it proven to me.

 

"Good, good?" has been around forever. If it wasn't Kosher the R&A would have let Old Tom Morris know about it. 🙂

[nsxguy]

14 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

All of those are immensely stupid. When you concede the next stroke you concede the next stroke, no ifs. And if you are not aware what is the score of your opponent it is time for you to go home.

 

I was really warming to, and enjoying reading, the kindler gentler Mr Bean.

 

And then you come up with this. 

 

No, those are NOT immensely stupid. But that sort of comment IS immensely RUDE. 

 

They may not be advisable things to say in the context of match play golf simply because one must (apparently) be soooooo careful but they are English sentences and should be clearly understood by the person hearing them.

Edited April 23, 2021 by nsxguy

[Mr. Bean]

18 hours ago, Sawgrass said:

I don’t get the legality of this debate about conditions being illegal.  “Good/good?”  is clearly a conditional concession, I will concede yours if you concede mine.  A clear parallel to saying, “If that’s for a four, I will concede it.”  

 

Oh, I get it! We are talking about the MP tournament of 80-year old with bad memory!