Conceded putt - conditional/mistake?

[Quasimoto]

On 9/15/2020 at 6:29 PM, 2bGood said:

Keep in mind if a player gives wrong information the penalty is loss of hole. Not saying this applies in the cases above, but a reminder that if you incorrectly tell your opponent how many strokes you have made and do not correct it - you lose the hole. Its not their job to count, they ask you - answer correctly.

 

Also a bit of weird rule, you opponent does not need to tell you how many strokes they have taken when it is their turn to hit, but they do have to when it is your turn. 

 

Can anyone explain the rationale for this rule. This seems to be an unnecessary burden on both players. Why would a player need to call this rule up when asked? Why not just give the answer and move on?

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, Augster said:

The correct answers to “is that good?” Are as follows:

 

”Mark it please.” And

 

”It ain’t bad.”

 

And I am all for that answer and have a few clever ones of my own. The fun thing about match play is there is bit more playing the man as much as playing the game at times. Sometimes asking for a putt supports a larger strategy. 

 

 

[2bGood]

4 minutes ago, Quasimoto said:

 

Can anyone explain the rationale for this rule. This seems to be an unnecessary burden on both players. Why would a player need to call this rule up when asked? Why not just give the answer and move on?

It makes sense - when it is your turn to hit the ball you are allowed to ignore your opponent and focus on what you are doing. If they want to know something they have to ask before their shot. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by 2bGood

[Quasimoto]

Well I understand the point if a player is using the question to distract the shooter when he takes his stance; that would be a di*k move. Who does that? 

[2bGood]

59 minutes ago, Quasimoto said:

Well I understand the point if a player is using the question to distract the shooter when he takes his stance; that would be a di*k move. Who does that? 

Thing is some players are focusing on the next shot before they get into their stance. For instance if I am 'away' after approach shots are made, I may start reading and thinking about the putt as I approach the green and circle it to drop off my bag I am not adding up strokes in my head, but rather focused just on the next stroke. 

 

I find the rule to be a very elegantly written rule as it is by keeping it simple - not before only after are obligated to answer. If you a agree that a player should not be obligated to answer questions when they are preparing for their next shot, how would you make this rule better? 

[pingfool]

4 hours ago, rogolf said:

Imo, that's a very poor way of making a concession and it's up to you do know what it's for.  Of course, you can ask what it's for, and he's obligated to answer correctly, but I don't consider your statements as an ask.  In any case, you can only concede the NEXT stroke, not the one after.

The reason for specifically stating “4 is good” is to confirm the opponent score - or not

 

you sound like a guy a that I probably would make putt everything out - the only true way to avoid any match play nonsense

 

 

 

your welcome to handle it your way. It’s never caused a problem in 35years.  

[Mr. Bean]

10 hours ago, pingfool said:

The reason for specifically stating “4 is good” is to confirm the opponent score - or not

 

you sound like a guy a that I probably would make putt everything out - the only true way to avoid any match play nonsense

 

 

What do you achieve by saying something like that instead of saying 'that's good' ? Is it to confuse your opponent or just being a di*k ?

[llewol007]

The player made the mistake of conceding before clarifying what it was for. So that is the players mistake. The putt has been given.

[Ty_Webb]

15 hours ago, Augster said:

The correct answers to “is that good?” Are as follows:

 

”Mark it please.” And

 

”It ain’t bad.”

 

If I'm 4" away from the hole and you're making me putt, I'm going to be lining that one up from both sides and plumb bobbing and everything. I've often asked someone to confirm a putt is good when it's less than 6 inches from the hole. Any answer other than "oh sorry yeah that's fine" is incorrect.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

If I'm 4" away from the hole and you're making me putt, I'm going to be lining that one up from both sides and plumb bobbing and everything. I've often asked someone to confirm a putt is good when it's less than 6 inches from the hole. Any answer other than "oh sorry yeah that's fine" is incorrect.

 

Do you feel that it is such a tiresome task to tap that 4" in or is this just a principle of yours? Not that I would not agree with you that it is unnecessary to make a person sink a putt he would not miss in a million years.

[Ty_Webb]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Do you feel that it is such a tiresome task to tap that 4" in or is this just a principle of yours? Not that I would not agree with you that it is unnecessary to make a person sink a putt he would not miss in a million years.

 

To be honest, it's never happened. No one has ever said no. I've been made to putt things from pretty short - my point of view is if I'm upset it's not been conceded it must be because I think it's trivial, so just knock it in, but never less than 6 inches. But if someone didn't give me a putt from 4" away, I'd ask assuming that it was an oversight. If they say no then I'm making theater out of it. I'd probably step off it a couple of times too. Then I'd beat them.

 

The beginning and end of my gamesmanship when putting is if I have say 3.5 feet and my opponent has 3 feet and I'm very confident I'm going to hole, I'll offer a half. If they say yes, then great. If they say no and I hole then they're thinking why didn't I take the half and not about holing their now annoying little three foot putt. 

[Augster]

2 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

If I'm 4" away from the hole and you're making me putt, I'm going to be lining that one up from both sides and plumb bobbing and everything. I've often asked someone to confirm a putt is good when it's less than 6 inches from the hole. Any answer other than "oh sorry yeah that's fine" is incorrect.

Pull the theatrics and you’re putting everything out the rest of the match. 

It goes both ways. 

[Ty_Webb]

1 hour ago, Augster said:

Pull the theatrics and you’re putting everything out the rest of the match. 

It goes both ways. 

Why would you make someone putt from four inches away? 

[nsxguy]

19 hours ago, Quasimoto said:

 

Can anyone explain the rationale for this rule. This seems to be an unnecessary burden on both players. Why would a player need to call this rule up when asked? Why not just give the answer and move on?

 

I expect most players would just answer and be done with it.

 

But when it's his turn to hit your question is irrelevant.

 

When it is your turn to hit, the number of strokes he has taken to that point could be extremely relevant.

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Do you feel that it is such a tiresome task to tap that 4" in or is this just a principle of yours? Not that I would not agree with you that it is unnecessary to make a person sink a putt he would not miss in a million years.

 

Didn't Rickie Fowler whiff on a 4" putt not that long ago ?

[rogolf]

Hale Irwin, The Open Championship at Royal Birkdale - whiffed a 1 inch putt.  IIRC, he lost by one stroke.

[Quasimoto]

Ohh, I had no focus or suggestion to change it, you are correct it is well written.

I was curious to understand the rationale for having it. I suppose it it needed if it is there.

[pingfool]

14 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

What do you achieve by saying something like that instead of saying 'that's good' ? Is it to confuse your opponent or just being a di*k ?

“confirm the opponent score - or not“

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, pingfool said:

“confirm the opponent score - or not“

 

So it is the latter.

[lchang]

I feel kind of silly asking this, but might you call the very-typical "Good-good?" concession a "conditional concession"?  As in, "Your putt is good if mine is good."  I assume this kind of gentlemen's agreement is outside of the rule book?

 

Otherwise "Your putt is good if mine is good" seems awfully similar to "Your putt is good if it's for 4"....

[nsxguy]

11 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

So it is the latter.

 

Confirming the opponent's score makes you a "Richard" ?

[rogolf]

15 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Confirming the opponent's score makes you a "Richard" ?

I definitely prefer to separate the acts of (1) asking my opponent his current score on the hole and (2) making any concession to him or her.

[nsxguy]

47 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I definitely prefer to separate the acts of (1) asking my opponent his current score on the hole and (2) making any concession to him or her.

 

I don't blame you and I totally agree. And if it was me I would certainly ask how many strokes before I even sounded like I was conceding a putt.

 

However, in English, "That's good for a 4" is a conditional statement and the implication is very clear that if it wouldn't be a 4 with the concession there is more discussion/clarification necessary.

 

But since the USGA says the putt was conceded with that very statement I will simply take it as a lesson learned - that they don't understand English.

[rogolf]

14 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I don't blame you and I totally agree. And if it was me I would certainly ask how many strokes before I even sounded like I was conceding a putt.

 

However, in English, "That's good for a 4" is a conditional statement and the implication is very clear that if it wouldn't be a 4 with the concession there is more discussion/clarification necessary.

 

But since the USGA says the putt was conceded with that very statement I will simply take it as a lesson learned - that they don't understand English.

Well, playing devil's advocate - if my opponent told me "that's goof for a 4", I could say, thank you and move on even knowing that I was laying 4.  But, out of kindness and with integrity, I'd tell him the truth.

If my opponent want to know what I lie, he can ask me and I will tell him.  If my opponents wants to concede my next stroke, then he or she needs to tell me and I must accept.  Two things not the same are different.

[nsxguy]

14 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Well, playing devil's advocate - if my opponent told me "that's goof for a 4", I could say, thank you and move on even knowing that I was laying 4.  But, out of kindness and with integrity, I'd tell him the truth.

If my opponent want to know what I lie, he can ask me and I will tell him.  If my opponents wants to concede my next stroke, then he or she needs to tell me and I must accept.  Two things not the same are different.

 

Who you calling a goof ?!?!?!

 

OK, I think I know the answer and it may have been mentioned earlier but,,,,,,,,

 

He says "That's good for a 4" a concession according to the USGA.

 

I say "Nope. I lie 2 so that would be a 3 and a win"

 

He says "Oh, then I take it back".

 

I say "No worries"

 

We're both DQ'd then correct ? For agreeing to ignore a rule ?

[sui generis]

"Good, good?" has been around since long before even lead tape.

[Sawgrass]

“Since you asked, I’ll give you that putt — but only if you let me keep the ball afterwards.”

 

Now THAT would be fun . . . 

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

Who you calling a goof ?!?!?!

 

OK, I think I know the answer and it may have been mentioned earlier but,,,,,,,,

 

He says "That's good for a 4" a concession according to the USGA.

 

I say "Nope. I lie 2 so that would be a 3 and a win"

 

He says "Oh, then I take it back".

 

I say "No worries"

 

We're both DQ'd then correct ? For agreeing to ignore a rule ?

Apologies, a typo error (I hate it when I do that).

When we're playing match play without a referee and we do not deliberately agree to waive a Rule or penalty we knew applied, we can agree how to decide a Rules issue (Rule 20. 1b).

[2bGood]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:42 PM, Mr. Bean said:

 

Do you feel that it is such a tiresome task to tap that 4" in or is this just a principle of yours? Not that I would not agree with you that it is unnecessary to make a person sink a putt he would not miss in a million years.

 

I think I brought it up, that at times it is legitimate to say "is that good"? and mentioned that some times even a tap in requires that you stand on someones line. I am not one for contorting my stance to make a tap in (while avoiding someones line), so if the 4" is not good, then I will mark it. 

 

So I guess, yes - sometimes a 4" tap can be a tiresome task as you are wasting time on a virtual formality.

 

Like I pointed out, it almost always inexperienced golfers that don't give the 4" tap-in and most times I find it is because they forgot they had to give to you. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by 2bGood

[rogolf]

We're talking about concessions, which are only applicable in match play, so order of play is also important.

Edited April 22, 2021 by rogolf