Aggressive swing - Nippon 120tx vs 130x vs Project X

[kwayneiu]

Apologies as I know there are lots of threads like this, but struggling to find exactly what I'm looking for. 

 

I'm looking to get new irons (Z785) and not sure on what to get (testing isn't really an option for me currently and I know that isn't wise). Currently play C Taper 130X and they're OK, I have no problem launching it but feel I can get better dispersion and feel elsewhere. I have an aggressive tempo, transition, and swing overall with fairly deep divots so I'm unclear on what to try. I'm thinking Nippon Modus3 120TX, 130X (maybe 125 but they're an "exotic" upcharge these days), Project X, or Project X LZ. I've used DG X100 in the past but wasn't a big fan, although that was years ago. 

 

Just curious if anyone was in a similar position and can comment on any of the iron shafts I've mentioned. I know some of these have quite different profiles but I'm keeping all options open. Any recommendations not listed based on my swing type are more than welcome too. Thanks!

 

 

[jvincent]

Honestly the best way to know what to get is to try them out since feel will be key.

 

You say that testing isn't an option but if you can get a single shaft for a couple of the options you could test them in one of your existing irons before pulling the trigger on the set.

[DFS PFD]

If you have no problem launching the C Taper 130X, I'd avoid the Nippon line all together. I'd look at Project X LS 7.0 and DG X7. I play X7 and love the feel and control of them over C taper and PX 7.0 

[kwayneiu]

19 minutes ago, DFS PFD said:

If you have no problem launching the C Taper 130X, I'd avoid the Nippon line all together. I'd look at Project X LS 7.0 and DG X7. I play X7 and love the feel and control of them over C taper and PX 7.0 

That's interesting. I was leaning towards Project X as from what I've read people tend to absolutely love or hate the Modus (at least the 120). With that said Ill need to look into those two as I'm not too familiar, but if imagine they're both low spin variants of their flagships. Thanks!

[Stonebridge]

The Nippon S214’s are great in short irons. Had great success with X700’s triple hard stepped with a 20gram back weight if you are looking to lower spin substantially.

[DFS PFD]

17 minutes ago, kwayneiu said:

That's interesting. I was leaning towards Project X as from what I've read people tend to absolutely love or hate the Modus (at least the 120). With that said Ill need to look into those two as I'm not too familiar, but if imagine they're both low spin variants of their flagships. Thanks!

Nippon Super peening blue would be the route if you really want to try Nippon too btw, but I believe they are hard to come by and even rarer to see in a fitter's hands. Good luck!

[kwayneiu]

29 minutes ago, DFS PFD said:

Nippon Super peening blue would be the route if you really want to try Nippon too btw, but I believe they are hard to come by and even rarer to see in a fitter's hands. Good luck!

Yea i remember reading about those years ago and how hard they are to find!  I don't see them as an "exotic" option on Srixon's site. Given their options, I'm leaning towards Project X 6.5 hard-stepped. Just realized their new irons should be out any day now so maybe thatll give me more time to plan a trip somewhere I can actually hit these shafts. Thanks again!

[Red4282]

Project x will have amazing performance but may take out your elbows. Modus 130x gets my vote, similar performance, feel, but better on the bows. Avoid the 120tx

[Hammer22]

I have a fairly aggressive transition (well, according to the Mizuno Optimizer) and previously tried the Modus 120 in X with less than desirable results. Those shafts gave me terrible dispersion and the launch was insanely high. When I got re-fit, the top three choices were DG X-100, PX 6.5, or C-Taper X. Went with the DG, in Tour Issue and love them. Another option was the Modus 125X, HS1x, but since I was able to try all others except that from the Mizuno cart, the DG's won out. Fitting is the key. 

[kwayneiu]

1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

Project x will have amazing performance but may take out your elbows. Modus 130x gets my vote, similar performance, feel, but better on the bows. Avoid the 120tx

Noted, thank you! Leaning project x 6.5 hard stepped now but will keep 130x in mind before I decide. 

[kwayneiu]

19 minutes ago, Hammer22 said:

I have a fairly aggressive transition (well, according to the Mizuno Optimizer) and previously tried the Modus 120 in X with less than desirable results. Those shafts gave me terrible dispersion and the launch was insanely high. When I got re-fit, the top three choices were DG X-100, PX 6.5, or C-Taper X. Went with the DG, in Tour Issue and love them. Another option was the Modus 125X, HS1x, but since I was able to try all others except that from the Mizuno cart, the DG's won out. Fitting is the key. 

I see, besides dg those were my initial thoughts too. Wish 125x wasn't at an upcharge!

[Hammer22]

1 hour ago, kwayneiu said:

I see, besides dg those were my initial thoughts too. Wish 125x wasn't at an upcharge!

 

Well, I went with the Tour Issue shafts, so there is also an upcharge for them. The difference is that all of them are in the fitting cart except for the 125's (the same case for some of the new-for-2020 shafts), so if I couldn't hit them, they would not come in to consideration. The DG's really are a great shaft anyway, so I'm glad I went that route - just wish I would have made the switch years ago.

[mizuno player]

5 hours ago, kwayneiu said:

Noted, thank you! Leaning project x 6.5 hard stepped now but will keep 130x in mind before I decide. 

Why hard step the 6.5. They are stout shafts. They Frequency around 7.0. 

[kwayneiu]

3 hours ago, mizuno player said:

Why hard step the 6.5. They are stout shafts. They Frequency around 7.0. 

Not too sure to be honest, just assumed it wouldn't be a bad idea since I have no problems with the stout C-Taper 130x and other suggestions of going 7.0. Since I'm not sure I can easily get 7.0 straight from Srixon I figured it was a decent compromise, although I'm aware it only makes 1/3 flex difference generally. Perhaps a mental thing more than anything :)

[Howard_Jones]

Just a few inputs you might benefit to know about....

- When we hard step a shaft, we both add weight equal to 0.5" inch of shaft weight, and go 0.5" shorter on the tip section. Flex moves with about 4 CPM and we count average 5 CPM from 6.5 to 7.0, so on the paper, a hard stepped 6.5 should be seen as a 126.5 gram shaft, with a lower launch than its 7.0 brother.
- The other way, if we soft stepp, we loose wgt equal to 0.5", and add 0.5" longer tip section, and butt CPM will drop about 4 CPM. That means if we started from a 7.0 and soft stepped it 1x, we will get "PX 6.6" but with a higher launch profile than 6.5 strait in.

That means "a need" for inbetween flexes using hard or soft stepping has consequences for weight and flight pattern, but also set flex progression where the flex slope will stop 1 club earlier on hard stepped sets than strait in, while soft stepped sets get a set progression 1 club shorter than strait in.

But, we have a solution who can overrule most of this....we simply TIP TRIM taper tip shafts, even if we officially should not.
The normal tip length progression is average 4/8" as difference from shaft to shaft, and since most hosels accept a taper tip tip trimmed up to 3/8# without fear for insert issues, we can strengthen flex almost as much as by hard stepping, but avoid the weight gain we get from hard stepping, and keep set progression for flex as standard.

So, you do have the option to use a standard set like 3-PW, and simply tip trim them all 2/8" to get "PX 6.7", or tip trim them 3/8" to get "PX 6.8"
Like the hard stepped version, we do go lower as flight pattern, but since we dont add wall thickness like we do when hard stepping, we cant get all the way on either flex or "that much lower" flight as hard stepping gives.

PS! the difference in flight from SS1 - standard or HS1 is not huge when overall flex is the same, but for higher club speed players where the profile matters for ball flight it should be mentioned what direction we alter it all.

As a summary, we see this options
- PX 7.0 soft stepped once to "PX 6.6" - 128.5 grams comparable weight - Higher launch than std 7.0 and 6.5 strait in
- PX 6.5 hard stepped once to "PX 6.9" - 126.5 grams comparable weight - Lower launch than std 7.0 (and for sure lower than std 6.5)
- PX 6.5 TIP TRIMMED to "PX 6.7-6.8" - 125 grams (no change) - Lower flight than 6.5 strait in, but not as low as 7.0 strait in.

[kwayneiu]

Oh wow what an amazingly helpful comment! I feel like this should be stickied to avoid similar posts to mine, but mainly because it details a lot about iron shafts. I am definitely saving this as it explains a lot I clearly had no idea about. I just wrongly assumed it'd play a bit stiffer inconsequential to anything else. I swing hard but I don't think I could handle or want a lower flight than 7.0; I'm not Rory after all!

 

I also was unaware you could tip trim steel shafts (only graphite), but perhaps that's what you mean by not supposed to "officially" do it. Now I'm leaning 6.5 or maybe even 7.0 (if an option from club manufacturer) straight in.

 

Since I don't think they'd tip trim, I suppose I could also order them a bit longer than normal, get the grips "loose", and take it somewhere else to tip trim 2/8" and then trim the butt to overall desired length.  So many choices but at least I know my options and what the impact will be given on what I decide. Thanks a ton!