BigTerp's swing journey

[BigTerp1524]

Played in a 4 man scramble yesterday at my buddies club. I haven't played in a scramble for a few years, and it was a lot of fun. My driver was really slicing the first few holes. Was pretty obvious I was leaving the club face open. Was trying to work it out in my head and ended up straight pushing a drive to the left. Then I remembered when Monte asked what my miss was during our last lesson. I told him with driver my shape is a baby fade on a good day and on a bad day a slice and an occasional straight push left. I then remembered that he told me both issues are from my lack of hip rotation and shoulders spinning out. So I proceeded to focus on right hip depth on the way back and really rotating my left hip around and back on the way through. It REALLY straightened my drives out and I hit some of my best ones of the year yesterday after using those swing thoughts and getting my hips working properly. Turns out Monte really knows what he's talking about, LOL!!! Same swing thoughts and feels I used last time out when my driver was behaving. Just need to get consistent with those thoughts/feels. I really need to get some video of my driver swing to see exactly what's going on. Just tough to do since I cannot swing it inside.

 

The best part of my game, and what seems to becoming my strength, was my wedge and short iron play. Being a scramble, there were plenty of opportunities for approach shots from reasonable distances. I pretty consistently was hitting the green on these shots, and quite a few of mine were used for the proceeding putt attempt. On one of the last holes we all missed the green from 130ish yards out. Mine just missed left. We had one mulligan left for the group and I told the guys, "I can stick this". Half swing 8i and I stuck in close enough to save us a birdie. I would have NEVER had the confidence in that type of shot a few weeks ago, let alone so confident that I announced it amongst my buddies and burned our last mulligan for the day.

 

Going to continue working on the things Monte went over with me in my lesson last month. Getting the hips working properly really seems to be the difference in reigning in my slice with the driver. Also going to dive further into his new Broom Force video. A lot of the content, so far, correlates really well with the things I've been working on. Pretty optimistic that I'm close to turning the corner with my swing. Just need to keep working hard at it.

[BigTerp1524]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Maybe it's worth revisiting with a slightly different plan. Pick the hardest 9 holes and have a plan to play those more conservatively, but give yourself the option to go for the green in two with the shorter holes. 

 

It's all about building confidence and data. If your driver is getting you in loads of trouble then don't use it until you can hit it consistently. How does your 4H go? Personally, I prefer lofted woods to hybrids and find them easier to hit. 

 

Just that one round really put some confidence in my partial swing wedges and short irons. I mean a LOT of confidence. Just for that alone it was worth the price of admission.

 

I hit my 4h decently. More consistent than my driver but less consistent than my irons. Like everything else, minus driver, it's progressively gotten better the more I hit it. I've got room for one club in my bag. I'm in no rush to get anything, but it will probably end up being something along the lines of a 5 or 7 wood.

 

As far as driver goes, I understand the idea of not hitting it until I get more consistent with it. Problem is the only time I get to hit it is on the range, which isn't very often, or on the course. So I'm OK taking the lumps in penalties and a higher score hitting driver on the course. Figure the more practice with it the better.

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, BigTerp1524 said:

 

Just that one round really put some confidence in my partial swing wedges and short irons. I mean a LOT of confidence. Just for that alone it was worth the price of admission.

 

I hit my 4h decently. More consistent than my driver but less consistent than my irons. Like everything else, minus driver, it's progressively gotten better the more I hit it. I've got room for one club in my bag. I'm in no rush to get anything, but it will probably end up being something along the lines of a 5 or 7 wood.

 

As far as driver goes, I understand the idea of not hitting it until I get more consistent with it. Problem is the only time I get to hit it is on the range, which isn't very often, or on the course. So I'm OK taking the lumps in penalties and a higher score hitting driver on the course. Figure the more practice with it the better.

Why can't you practice on the range more often? I thought you were a full-time golfer. 🤓

[BigTerp1524]

2 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Why can't you practice on the range more often? I thought you were a full-time golfer. 🤓

HA!! That would be nice. It's tough enough with 2 young kids at home to fit in a round 2 or 3 times a month, let alone multiple range sessions. Although I'm trying to get there on the weeks I'm not playing. 

[BigTerp1524]

Worked on Monte's Broom Force last night doing the first two drills in the series. The "roll it" drill with the broom and the "sweep it" drill with a club. I would do several of the roll it drills followed by several sweep it drills and then hit 8 or 10 balls trying to get the same feels as the drills. Rinse and repeat. A few times, usually the first few swings after the drills, I could feel my swing synched up nicely. It would quickly fall apart, but I think I'm on to something here. When I think of a synched up swing I'm feeling effortless and powerful with a good clean strike on the ball. Is that what I should be feeling? Is that what you guys would consider being "synched up"? 

 

The Broom Force series should really start helping me keep my shoulders from spinning out early and as a result help to tighten up my sequencing. It really emphasizes unloading the vertical hinge (cast A) by starting the arms early and then using the body (hips & shoulders) to powerfully release the club (cast B) through impact. When doing the drills I mentioned you can really feel how the separate parts of the body work throughout the swing, and it makes total sense. The challenge is working through them to get everything working together in a full swing. 

 

Something worth noting is that when working on these drills with a full swing I'll occasionally completely miss the ball by swinging inside of it. Not really sure why that is happening, but my guess is I'm giving my arms more room to come through by having everything working together better/properly but my body is used to being tied up through impact. Hence the miss by swinging inside the ball. Does that even make sense? I've had this happen before when working on my pivot and shoulder rotation. Have never had this miss on the course, but when working specifically on my sequencing it'll pop up from time to time. 

 

Something else I'm working on is moving the ball slightly further back in my stance with my irons. I occasionally (too much) chunk my irons by hitting behind the ball leaving a divot that starts 3 or 4 inches behind the ball. I rarely hit them thin. I'm currently setting up with the ball pretty much inline with my left pec/shirt logo. Since the low point of my swing seems to be a bit further back, moving the ball back to closer to center seems like the appropriate thing to do.

 

Going to try and fit in a range session this weekend. I've got another round coming up on Tuesday. This course has a rating of 73.1 and slope of 138. It kicked my butt last time, badly. Going to have my revenge next week though!!

[bortass]

I was told the following for ball position: 7i middle of stance. 8i-wedges slightly back of that. 6i-wood forward of center. For me my woods are a fair bit forward and probably closer to the left pec/shirt logo. The 5i/6i are a bit forward of middle but not like my woods. YMMV of course and ball position is something to play around with since low point changes with the club and individual's swing. As always, I'm not an expert so take with a grain of salt.

[TheDeanAbides]

15 minutes ago, bortass said:

I was told the following for ball position: 7i middle of stance. 8i-wedges slightly back of that. 6i-wood forward of center. For me my woods are a fair bit forward and probably closer to the left pec/shirt logo. The 5i/6i are a bit forward of middle but not like my woods. YMMV of course and ball position is something to play around with since low point changes with the club and individual's swing. As always, I'm not an expert so take with a grain of salt.

Woah! Those ball positions are off base. Nothing should be back of centre unless it's a specialist shot. All of those are further back than is ideal, so I hope that your pro was giving you a bandaid there.

[glk]

If the ball is in good position moving it back is not a good idea - comes with issues itself.    Better to fix reason for poor low point.

[BigTerp1524]

18 minutes ago, bortass said:

I was told the following for ball position: 7i middle of stance. 8i-wedges slightly back of that. 6i-wood forward of center. For me my woods are a fair bit forward and probably closer to the left pec/shirt logo. The 5i/6i are a bit forward of middle but not like my woods. YMMV of course and ball position is something to play around with since low point changes with the club and individual's swing. As always, I'm not an expert so take with a grain of salt.

 

I want to say it was from an AMG video, but I can't be certain. But they said it's best to keep ball position for irons and hybrids consistent. They recommended the left pec/shirt logo as a good place to be. Just something I started doing and never thought about again. It's obvious now though that my low point with my irons is slightly further back than that. So we'll see how a little adjustment does there. I think middle of stance is too far and just need it a tad further back.

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Worked on Monte's Broom Force last night doing the first two drills in the series. The "roll it" drill with the broom and the "sweep it" drill with a club. I would do several of the roll it drills followed by several sweep it drills and then hit 8 or 10 balls trying to get the same feels as the drills. Rinse and repeat. A few times, usually the first few swings after the drills, I could feel my swing synched up nicely. It would quickly fall apart, but I think I'm on to something here. When I think of a synched up swing I'm feeling effortless and powerful with a good clean strike on the ball. Is that what I should be feeling? Is that what you guys would consider being "synched up"? 

 

The Broom Force series should really start helping me keep my shoulders from spinning out early and as a result help to tighten up my sequencing. It really emphasizes unloading the vertical hinge (cast A) by starting the arms early and then using the body (hips & shoulders) to powerfully release the club (cast B) through impact. When doing the drills I mentioned you can really feel how the separate parts of the body work throughout the swing, and it makes total sense. The challenge is working through them to get everything working together in a full swing. 

 

Something worth noting is that when working on these drills with a full swing I'll occasionally completely miss the ball by swinging inside of it. Not really sure why that is happening, but my guess is I'm giving my arms more room to come through by having everything working together better/properly but my body is used to being tied up through impact. Hence the miss by swinging inside the ball. Does that even make sense? I've had this happen before when working on my pivot and shoulder rotation. Have never had this miss on the course, but when working specifically on my sequencing it'll pop up from time to time. 

 

Something else I'm working on is moving the ball slightly further back in my stance with my irons. I occasionally (too much) chunk my irons by hitting behind the ball leaving a divot that starts 3 or 4 inches behind the ball. I rarely hit them thin. I'm currently setting up with the ball pretty much inline with my left pec/shirt logo. Since the low point of my swing seems to be a bit further back, moving the ball back to closer to center seems like the appropriate thing to do.

 

Going to try and fit in a range session this weekend. I've got another round coming up on Tuesday. This course has a rating of 73.1 and slope of 138. It kicked my butt last time, badly. Going to have my revenge next week though!!

You need to work on your low point not ball position. In a good swing the low point is actually a good 1-2 inches in front of the ball. That's how you get solid ball/turf interaction.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OStvJf9qdUA

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, glk said:

If the ball is in good position moving it back is not a good idea - comes with issues itself.    Better to fix reason for poor low point.

Snap!

[BigTerp1524]

2 minutes ago, glk said:

If the ball is in good position moving it back is not a good idea - comes with issues itself.    Better to fix reason for poor low point.

 

I guess that's my question. What is a good/best position? Left pec/shirt logo? Between center and left pec? Further back towards center? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm not a fan of changing position based on club (minus driver), but my low point seems to be a bit further back than my current ball position. Is that a swing issue, or ball position issue? I'm not sure.

[BigTerp1524]

2 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You need to work on your low point not ball position. In a good swing the low point is actually a good 1-2 inches in front of the ball. That's how you get solid ball/turf interaction.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OStvJf9qdUA

 

Understood. It's not often I hit behind the ball. But enough that it's gotten my attention. If my ball position, as described above, is good then it's an occasional swing breakdown which isn't surprising. I have quite a few of those throughout a round, LOL!!

[TheDeanAbides]

5 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

 

Understood. It's not often I hit behind the ball. But enough that it's gotten my attention. If my ball position, as described above, is good then it's an occasional swing breakdown which isn't surprising. I have quite a few of those throughout a round, LOL!!

I like to use a strip of tape just behind the ball to work on low point. It gives a visual for what you want to do. 

[BigTerp1524]

8 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I like to use a strip of tape just behind the ball to work on low point. It gives a visual for what you want to do. 

 

Good idea. I've actually been setting the ball up on the front edge of my hitting strip. I can feel if I don't hit the turf but do hit the rubber bottom of the strip. That's a good ball first hit. If I hit the turf I know I hit it fat.

 

I'm actually ordering a full size hitting mat today. So the tape idea would work good on there. The idea is to NOT hit the tape behind the ball, correct?

 

Talked with Monte about my miss described above while working on the Broom Force drills. He confirmed it's my crosswired brain still compensating with a now better sequenced swing. Encouraging to hear as it confirms I'm on the right track!!

[glk]

19 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

 

I guess that's my question. What is a good/best position? Left pec/shirt logo? Between center and left pec? Further back towards center? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm not a fan of changing position based on club (minus driver), but my low point seems to be a bit further back than my current ball position. Is that a swing issue, or ball position issue? I'm not sure.

I use two things on ball position.  One,I always setup with my hands just inside my lead thigh.  Two,I let the built in lean that every club has determine based on my setup with hands just inside lead thigh as to where the ball goes.   Key is to learn, I used mirror, how to setup and put the club down without adding or subtracting to the shaft lean built into the club.   
 

in the mirror this turns out to be off the logo area of my shirt.  Btw I got this from a Tyler Ferrell video on his pay site - not something I just figured out on my own.
 

[glk]

On a separate note how close do you look to the below at p2ish?

 

[bortass]

49 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Woah! Those ball positions are off base. Nothing should be back of centre unless it's a specialist shot. All of those are further back than is ideal, so I hope that your pro was giving you a bandaid there.

 

49 minutes ago, glk said:

If the ball is in good position moving it back is not a good idea - comes with issues itself.    Better to fix reason for poor low point.

 

Lol, glad people that know better chimed in. So even more for me to learn! Almost wishing I kept quiet but it's good to know where I'm off base, lol.

[bortass]

50 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You need to work on your low point not ball position. In a good swing the low point is actually a good 1-2 inches in front of the ball. That's how you get solid ball/turf interaction.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OStvJf9qdUA

  Clampett's book from the late 2000s was all about this. I can't recall the name and my copy is missing, must of lost it in a move or something. I don't know what the final view of what he wrote in that book is but I know there was a lot of discussion  on it in these forums at the time. I think part of it had to do with even driver swings would have the low point in front of the ball. I don't know for sure though, it was a 'long' time ago and my recollection of the book isn't the best.

[BigTerp1524]

42 minutes ago, glk said:

On a separate note how close do you look to the below at p2ish?

 

[TheDeanAbides]

36 minutes ago, bortass said:

  Clampett's book from the late 2000s was all about this. I can't recall the name and my copy is missing, must of lost it in a move or something. I don't know what the final view of what he wrote in that book is but I know there was a lot of discussion  on it in these forums at the time. I think part of it had to do with even driver swings would have the low point in front of the ball. I don't know for sure though, it was a 'long' time ago and my recollection of the book isn't the best.

Was it The Impact Zone?

[bortass]

5 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Was it The Impact Zone?

That's it.

[TheDeanAbides]

15 minutes ago, bortass said:

That's it.

I haven't read it, but I have heard good things. 

[glk]

48 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Looks better than last video.    More in front so if right arm works well and left elbow continues to point down at that point, it is just finish wrist set and right arm fold getting club up more upright then  at the top hands just a little bit outside shoulders or there abouts.    Right palm facing more down like dribbling ball there and then facing away at p3?

 

ive posted this in a couple of other threads ,  I watch it enough that I have it bookmarked.    The down the line where Dana gets his hands and arms more out is a constant reminder for me to not let those arms get inside.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGqCDO0ixqL/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BigTerp1524]

More work last night with Broom Force. This is the second practice session that I've really spent on it. My feels are the intent of starting the hands first and releasing the vertical hinge (cast A) from the top. It was feeling great. Efficient, powerful, balanced, etc., etc. So I took some video to see where things were at. Quite a difference, especially with my main fault of spinning my shoulders out from the top. The intent of starting the hands first and releasing the vertical hinge are all things that Monte has tried to drill into me during our lessons in regards to my shoulder issues. It's also very similar to cast A in the NTC. But, for whatever reason, these drills and Broom Force in general has clicked EXTREMELY well for me. Whether it's the work I've put in over the last however many months, the different feels from Broom Force, or something else, either way I've never been so optimistic about my swing as I am now. Still LOTS of work to do to get things really sequenced, engrained, etc. But some vast improvements already with only approximately 90 minutes of practice time spent on Broom Force. I really feel like things are starting to come together and looking forward to working through the other drills in the series.

 

From the video you can see how much better I keep my shoulders closed, bring my hands down from the top and shallow the club. It's hard to see from the DTL view, but my hands now have more room coming into impact. It's not a ton, but it sure feels like it. 

 

Here is a comparison from face on. The left is last night and the right is just 2 weeks ago. Quite a difference with the shoulders and you can see I'm less tied up/constricted at impact in the left picture versus the right. Arms are synched up better in the left where it's clear to see they are suck behind in the right picture.

 

Video from last night. I'm overrunning at the top a bit, but I'm chalking that up to my focus on the drills and feels I described above. 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by BigTerp1524

[glk]

You are getting the club steep in transition so you have to ee which leads to the cramped look.   No shallowing going on, sorry.   Don’t want to dampen your enthusiasm but I think you are stuck.   Ignore this or see monte again and ask him.

 

I think you are looking at the wrong places - your arms and wrists are not working well starting right after p2.     

 

right after p2 you roll the club head inside - right palm should face more down to the ground at p2 - you face it at the target line - leads to the club head inside and flat (at p3 butt of shaft points out past ball instead of at or inside ball) and arms behind.    you have a typical reaction of pulling the shaft steep and left wrist doesn’t flex - about p6 the left wrist is pointing to the sky when it should point to the target line - so you use your right shoulder (it goes internal versus external, ie you win at arm wrestling versus lose) to square the club versus left forearm supination.  Leads to the scoopy look at impact where you have  lost all right wrist extension too early - going to be low point issues and explains all the offline shots you hit - your path is decent but how you move arms and wrists makes managing the face difficult.   
 

Look at your still from the current swing - right wrist is already flat - this is a p8 not p7 position.

 

your general pivot was the initial big issue but now it is in the details of how your arms and wrist work.     Do all the NTC and broom you want and things won’t get better until you address them.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKWc9zVlzg5/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJBiS3plrJs/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAMNS8Hl9rZ/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAOOW7eFqkJ/

[BigTerp1524]

13 minutes ago, glk said:

You are getting the club steep in transition so you have to ee which leads to the cramped look.   No shallowing going on, sorry.   Don’t want to dampen your enthusiasm but I think you are stuck.   Ignore this or see monte again and ask him.

 

I think you are looking at the wrong places - your arms and wrists are not working well starting right after p2.     

 

right after p2 you roll the club head inside - right palm should face more down to the ground at p2 - you face it at the target line - leads to the club head inside and flat (at p3 butt of shaft points out past ball instead of at or inside ball) and arms behind.    you have a typical reaction of pulling the shaft steep and left wrist doesn’t flex - about p6 the left wrist is pointing to the sky when it should point to the target line - so you use your right shoulder (it goes internal versus external, ie you win at arm wrestling versus lose) to square the club versus left forearm supination.  Leads to the scoopy look at impact where you have  lost all right wrist extension too early - going to be low point issues and explains all the offline shots you hit - your path is decent but how you move arms and wrists makes managing the face difficult.   
 

Look at your still from the current swing - right wrist is already flat - this is a p8 not p7 position.

 

your general pivot was the initial big issue but now it is in the details of how your arms and wrist work.     Do all the NTC and broom you want and things won’t get better until you address them.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKWc9zVlzg5/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJBiS3plrJs/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAMNS8Hl9rZ/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAOOW7eFqkJ/

 

It's obviously a work in progress. The videos from last night were really exaggerating the feels, intents and drills from Monte's Broom Force. I expect many other things to be out of whack as a result. Being this, specifically, is an arm/wrist/hand drill and exercise there is little surprise that's where the issues show up. Just like after my lesson working on my pivot, I was WAY overdoing it causing massive problems elsewhere. Working backwards from there, it settled in nicely. The takeaway issues that you mentioned, for example, is something I've ironed out pretty well already. But focusing so hard on these drills is causing other temporary issues. Like I said, this is only the second time working on these drills. We'll see how things go as I work through this. The results from the drills in the ability for myself to FINALLY keep my shoulders from spinning out in transition have me confident that things will eventually even back out. Appreciate the breakdown though and will be sure to keep an eye on everything else moving forward.

[glk]

4 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

 

It's obviously a work in progress. The videos from last night were really exaggerating the feels, intents and drills from Monte's Broom Force. I expect many other things to be out of whack as a result. Being this, specifically, is an arm/wrist/hand drill and exercise there is little surprise that's where the issues show up. Just like after my lesson working on my pivot, I was WAY overdoing it causing massive problems elsewhere. Working backwards from there, it settled in nicely. The takeaway issues that you mentioned, for example, is something I've ironed out pretty well already. But focusing so hard on these drills is causing other temporary issues. Like I said, this is only the second time working on these drills. We'll see how things go as I work through this. The results from the drills in the ability for myself to FINALLY keep my shoulders from spinning out in transition have me confident that things will eventually even back out. Appreciate the breakdown though and will be sure to keep an eye on everything else moving forward.

Nope these issues have been there .   Nothing new or caused by other thing   I have noted them in the past just your pivot was a priority.    

Edited September 16, 2021 by glk

[BigTerp1524]

6 minutes ago, glk said:

Nope these issues have been there .   Nothing new or caused by other thing   I have noted them in the past just your pivot was a priority.    

Thanks. 

[BigTerp1524]

Took @glk 's advice and did some self assessment last night on how my arms and wrists are working in my swing. Worked on tightening up my takeaway to get me into a better position at the top. This was a pretty simple correction without much awkwardness and actually felt "right" pretty quickly. A few of the videos he posted were helpful, especially the one about throwing an object behind you with the left arm. Really helps to enforce the feeling of not rolling the club inside and sucking the arms behind. Once in a good position at the top, I worked on my wrist movements in transition with cast A/unloading vertical hinge (Broom Force). Went back and watched the cast A instruction from the NTC videos and Monte REALLY stresses how important left wrist flexion is with cast A. I was getting good ulnar deviation, but zero left wrist flexion. So I was casting more towards 6:30-7 than 8. From the top, my left wrist stays pretty much flat through impact with little if any right wrist extension, and like @glk said, gives me that flippy look at impact. At impact my hands are above the ball, right wrist flat and shaft vertical where at this point my hands should be ahead of the ball with some right wrist extension and a little forward shaft lean. This is where things get uncomfortable and awkward. But by getting to the top properly and then slowly doing cast A, again properly, and rotating through to impact everything is perfect. Just going to take some time and work to get those moves worked into a full speed swing. The video(s) illustrating the right arm movement from transition down to P6ish were also helpful, especially for shallowing the club on the way down. While working on this I noticed how much more extension out versus around I got after impact. So much so that I actually hit my ceiling a few times with my 7i. Something I only do when working on half swings and emphasizing my follow through, and rarely at that. Maybe that'll be my feedback from now on, HA!!

 

The Broom Force drills help to reinforce the wrist actions/positions through impact and the cast A drills from the NTC reinforce the wrist actions/positions starting the transition. But at this point they are both something I need to breakdown a little more individually and slowly to get it right.  

 

Overall I'm still VERY encouraged on how the Broom Force work quickly got me correcting my shoulders spinning out. And finding and addressing other faults, for me at least, is just as encouraging. Gives me a lot of motivation to continue the work of improving my swing.

 

I've got a 5' x 5' Rawhide hitting mat set to be delivered today. It's time to get rid of the hitting strip. Will make practice more comfortable and get my feet even with the ball. Something Monte gives me hell for each lesson.