F1 fans?

[lefthack]

The fact they still claim that HUGE mirror arm is just to support the mirror and isn't aero is pretty funny, too. Mercedes has complained and even got mid season rules changes and Hamilton was still 1.8 off Max in qualifying. 

 

I think the fact Red Bull got 20+ engineers (some VERY high level, too) from Mercedes is at least half thier problems. Not like you can go on Indeed and find a few dozen F1 engineers to replace them easily. 

[lefthack]

 

[lefthack]

It's official. Oscar to McLaren.

 

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/team/2021-fia-f2-champion-oscar-piastri-join-mclaren-racing-2023/

 

Also Russell and Hamilton 1 2 in FP1. Max has gearbox issues.

[LeftDot]

When I saw the FP1 results cross my twitter I thought to myself Max is just sandbagging and doesn't GAF about FP, dang, given last week's "I only did one lap" qualifying stomp. The fact that he had a gearbox issue makes more sense. Didn't he have gear sync issues last week?

[lefthack]

8 hours ago, LeftDot said:

When I saw the FP1 results cross my twitter I thought to myself Max is just sandbagging and doesn't GAF about FP, dang, given last week's "I only did one lap" qualifying stomp. The fact that he had a gearbox issue makes more sense. Didn't he have gear sync issues last week?

 

They had the box open before FP1 and changed it before FP2. I think Ferrari and Mercedes looked the best, maybe Russell gets his first win Sunday.

[LeftDot]

Whelp - 

 

Ferrari strikes again

Mercedes could and should have done better

Good drive by Alonso

AT giving Yuki a mid-race otphj to make it look like they didn't know a wheel was on wrong 😂

[lefthack]

Russell made a great call to put on the softs. Max is driving perfectly and Red Bull has a solid car.

 

I still think Russell will get a win before the end of the year.  

[iBanesto]

Ferrari.

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by iBanesto

[rukahs]

On 9/5/2022 at 2:10 AM, lefthack said:

I still think Russell will get a win before the end of the year.  

 

 

Definitely, he has it in him, but 100% nobody is winning a race unless Max's car dies. The red bull can make up time like no other car on track, very, very much like the Mercedes of old.

 

The new 2 horse race is looking to me Max and George(or Leclerc) and you can guarantee Max will be the new Lewis, and George(or Leclerc) will be the Bottas/Rosberg or any other team driver who comes 2nd to him in a race for a long time.  Max could be/looking likely to be the next dominant force for the next decade.

[lefthack]

2 hours ago, M4TT said:

 

 

Definitely, he has it in him, but 100% nobody is winning a race unless Max's car dies. The red bull can make up time like no other car on track, very, very much like the Mercedes of old.

 

The new 2 horse race is looking to me Max and George(or Leclerc) and you can guarantee Max will be the new Lewis, and George(or Leclerc) will be the Bottas/Rosberg or any other team driver who comes 2nd to him in a race for a long time.  Max could be/looking likely to be the next dominant force for the next decade.

 

I agree. He is making fewer and fewer mistakes every season and Newey has built an incredible car with Honda building an incredible PU. I think next year will be a 3 dog fight, but Max is currently on another level. 

 

I think the 3 of them are very close in skill, but Max makes fewer mistakes. So better bring your A game or it's a race for second. 

[Phireside]

Lousy finish today. I think NASCAR got it right with the green white checkered.

[lefthack]

Nyck placed 9th in a Williams. If he doesn't get a seat for next year, that would be wrong. Look where Latifi finished, damn. 

[golfortennis]

16 hours ago, Phireside said:

Lousy finish today. I think NASCAR got it right with the green white checkered.

 

So here's my question:  exactly when would you not put out a safety car and red flag it?  And given you have anywhere from 44 to 70+ laps depending on the circuit, can you really say at "x number of laps remaining"?  

 

I know people have said they should have red-flagged, but it opens as many cans of worms as it solves.

 

Although the safety car picking up the leader should be a basic thing....

[golfortennis]

On 8/30/2022 at 8:52 AM, LeftDot said:

 

 

If Ferrari could get out of their own way, I doubt Max would have as many wins.

 

I am also firmly on team "oh thank god it's not HAM VER BOT again." On any given Sunday we could see any combination of SAI, LEC, RUS, VER, HAM, PER on the podium. Throw in even just a sprinkling of chaos and there's potential for ALO, OCO, NOR to add to the potential permutations. I definitely think the aero regs are doing what they're meant to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All I know is I don't want to see a PER VER TSU podium.

[lefthack]

26 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

So here's my question:  exactly when would you not put out a safety car and red flag it?  And given you have anywhere from 44 to 70+ laps depending on the circuit, can you really say at "x number of laps remaining"?  

 

I know people have said they should have red-flagged, but it opens as many cans of worms as it solves.

 

Although the safety car picking up the leader should be a basic thing....

 

It think if there are 5 laps or less you red flag and restart. The reality is Max was well faster than everyone and would have restarted from the front. Unless Lewis or someone takes him out, he is still walking away with it. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by lefthack

[LeftDot]

28 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

So here's my question:  exactly when would you not put out a safety car and red flag it?  And given you have anywhere from 44 to 70+ laps depending on the circuit, can you really say at "x number of laps remaining"?  

 

I know people have said they should have red-flagged, but it opens as many cans of worms as it solves.

 

Although the safety car picking up the leader should be a basic thing....

 

You could do it by percentage I guess. 10-15% would work out for the folks at home who want something somewhat exciting - even moreso if you mandate no tire changes during the red flag. 

 

The other talking point I've seen is "well just add more laps on" which I'd also enjoy, but then you've got to add in some sort of refueling allowance as well. Red flag, can't change the tires, add X amount of fuel to the cars.

[lefthack]

1 minute ago, LeftDot said:

 

You could do it by percentage I guess. 10-15% would work out for the folks at home who want something somewhat exciting - even moreso if you mandate no tire changes during the red flag. 

 

The other talking point I've seen is "well just add more laps on" which I'd also enjoy, but then you've got to add in some sort of refueling allowance as well. Red flag, can't change the tires, add X amount of fuel to the cars.

 

I REALLY wanted to see Lando catch Hamilton. The fact that George is well clear points wise it awesome, though. 

[golfortennis]

34 minutes ago, LeftDot said:

 

You could do it by percentage I guess. 10-15% would work out for the folks at home who want something somewhat exciting - even moreso if you mandate no tire changes during the red flag. 

 

The other talking point I've seen is "well just add more laps on" which I'd also enjoy, but then you've got to add in some sort of refueling allowance as well. Red flag, can't change the tires, add X amount of fuel to the cars.

 

Ands that's what I mean.  You open up so many possible scenarios that can go sideways.  And why the last 15% of the race, but not 20?  Why are those laps more important?  Max got into the lead early on yesterday, so one could argue those laps are at least as important.  And it's a very different situation in Austria than it is at Spa when you start talking about stuff like that.

 

I get the desire to want to finish under green, but do we really want to have race control have even more subjective things?  I mean, they are so good with track limits....

[golfortennis]

47 minutes ago, lefthack said:

 

It think if there are 5 laps or less you red flag and restart. The reality is Max was well faster than everyone and would have restarted from the front. Unless Lewis or someone takes him out, he is still walking away with it. 

 

Sure, yesterday that is how it happens.  But what about next season?  Max may not have the same advantage. (Although it was certainly funny to see Toto Wolff not break up laughing in the interview with Kravetz...)

 

You do it 5 laps and in, you'll have the situation happen with 6 laps to go, and so you will hear "it's only one more lap it should be red flagged..."  Just way too many different outcomes IMO.  

[LeftDot]

24 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Ands that's what I mean.  You open up so many possible scenarios that can go sideways.  And why the last 15% of the race, but not 20?  Why are those laps more important?  Max got into the lead early on yesterday, so one could argue those laps are at least as important.  And it's a very different situation in Austria than it is at Spa when you start talking about stuff like that.

 

Keep in mind that this entire discussion revolves around a few key points:

- A physical safety car forces racing to occur once it retires, assuming there is at least one lap remaining after it retires.

- "It's called a motor race. We went car racing," but unironically.

- F1 is ultimately a commercial entity whose success depends on spectacle. 

- Nobody outside of the RB pit wall enjoyed watching the race end via safety car processional.

 

 

In yesterday's case, by lap 15 or so the race winner was already clear barring some sort of DNF situation. The late safety car was a huge potential to spice things up at the top, instead of watching Max enjoy a leisurely drive through the Italian countryside like we had just done for the past 1.5 hrs. Plus, the safety car neutralized battles happening all the way down the grid... it's not just a Max-Sharl discussion.

 

Sure, Abu Dhabi was a cluster, but at least it was exciting. 🤷‍♂️ Figuring out a way to make the end of the race much more exciting on rare circumstances would be a big win for F1 the commercial entity and its fans. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

I get the desire to want to finish under green, but do we really want to have race control have even more subjective things?  I mean, they are so good with track limits....

 

Keep in mind that it doesn't need to be subjective or at race control's prerogative, and FIA will have all the data they need to come up with a decent solution. Keyboard warrior here, but this would be a good starting point: for all of the physical SCs they've had over the last 10 years, figure out how long the race was under each SC normalized to race length (aka race %). Then figure out what that avg is, and then come up with something like a +3σ limit. Maybe that's 15% of the race. Maybe it's 20%. Whatever that number ends up being, you know that you're getting some racing before the end of the race in 99.7% of all previously-yellow-flagged situations.

 

Track limits aren't subjective either, I just don't think they've got the staffing or equipment to do it properly.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, LeftDot said:

 

Track limits aren't subjective either, I just don't think they've got the staffing or equipment to do it properly.

 

I don't agree or disagree with the rest, was just saying it can turn into a whole bunch of other situations.

 

But track limits....  well, I don't know if you watch hockey, but if a guy takes his stick, and with the blade of his stick, slows down the player in front of him who has the puck, but the ref doesn't blow the whistle, was it a penalty?  It's not very subjective either, but yet....  Either they will enforce track limits or they won't.  But as much as, of the top contenders I'd say I pull for Verstappen over the others, he went off the track nearly each time in qualifying at the one corener(can't recall which one it was.)  The enforcement reminds of the old Jerry Tarkanian quote about the NCAA:  "They're so mad at Kentucky they will probably slap another 3 years probation on Cleveland St."

 

Although I suppose the fact any track limit violation gets called out is better than the IndyCar race yesterday.  I think it was the last corner where they would come around, go beyond the curb, and even drive up the other side of it and get back on track after the curb ended.  Was kind of ridiculous.

[LeftDot]

37 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

But track limits....  well, I don't know if you watch hockey, but if a guy takes his stick, and with the blade of his stick, slows down the player in front of him who has the puck, but the ref doesn't blow the whistle, was it a penalty?  It's not very subjective either, but yet....  Either they will enforce track limits or they won't. 

 

I totally get what you're saying. It wasn't a penalty, because the ref didn't blow the whistle, but it was surely a violation of the rules. I watch a lot more soccer than I do hockey and we had an analogous problem for years, until the technology became feasible to implement: was the entire ball over the entire line on that goal? What about on the no-goal call? The situations before goal line tech was a laugh: slowmo replays available to TV crews clearly showing goals (or no goals) called the opposite way by the ref. 

 

That's what I feel track limit violations are, and sometimes the TV cameras aren't even in the right spots to give slowmos to the guys upstairs. In soccer nowadays there's some sort of voodoo combination of high speed cameras viewing the line, and sensors in both ball and goal frame, and the ref gets a signal on their watch right away with the Y/N result.

 

I doubt it will ever come to fruition but it'd be cool to see something like that implemented in F1 - even if only for the corners where guys have a tendency to exceed limits.

[Phireside]

4 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

So here's my question:  exactly when would you not put out a safety car and red flag it?  And given you have anywhere from 44 to 70+ laps depending on the circuit, can you really say at "x number of laps remaining"?  

 

I know people have said they should have red-flagged, but it opens as many cans of worms as it solves.

 

Although the safety car picking up the leader should be a basic thing....

I'm not sure exactly how NASCAR does it but I think they essentially extend the race if they know it would finish under yellow.

[lefthack]

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, LeftDot said:

 

I totally get what you're saying. It wasn't a penalty, because the ref didn't blow the whistle, but it was surely a violation of the rules. I watch a lot more soccer than I do hockey and we had an analogous problem for years, until the technology became feasible to implement: was the entire ball over the entire line on that goal? What about on the no-goal call? The situations before goal line tech was a laugh: slowmo replays available to TV crews clearly showing goals (or no goals) called the opposite way by the ref. 

 

That's what I feel track limit violations are, and sometimes the TV cameras aren't even in the right spots to give slowmos to the guys upstairs. In soccer nowadays there's some sort of voodoo combination of high speed cameras viewing the line, and sensors in both ball and goal frame, and the ref gets a signal on their watch right away with the Y/N result.

 

I doubt it will ever come to fruition but it'd be cool to see something like that implemented in F1 - even if only for the corners where guys have a tendency to exceed limits.

 

I meant to put the sensor part in.  For all the technology in F1, you would think this would be a no brainer.  

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, Phireside said:

I'm not sure exactly how NASCAR does it but I think they essentially extend the race if they know it would finish under yellow.

 

And you know what, that might be the best solution.  X Number of racing laps.  Safety car laps come out of the equation.  Although I guess refuel etc comes back into play.

[Phireside]

28 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

And you know what, that might be the best solution.  X Number of racing laps.  Safety car laps come out of the equation.  Although I guess refuel etc comes back into play.

If it's a flat out red or a number of laps behind the car then they may be able to save enough for green flag finish. Also there is a rule that they must have X amount of fuel in parc ferme at the end of the race for sampling. So maybe that comes out of the equation

[golfortennis]

4 minutes ago, Phireside said:

If it's a flat out red or a number of laps behind the car then they may be able to save enough for green flag finish. Also there is a rule that they must have X amount of fuel in parc ferme at the end of the race for sampling. So maybe that comes out of the equation

 

Gotta wonder how likely refueling is to come back.  I thought it was just an Ecclestone gimmick to not refuel anyway.  Could lead to a new strategy angle for Ferrari to mess up to see on race day.

[lefthack]

And this is why we can't have nice things. The teams can't agree either. 🤣

 

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/135663/f1-teams-could-not-agree-on-rule-to-prevent-safety-car-finish.html

[iBanesto]

On 9/12/2022 at 9:08 AM, lefthack said:

Nyck placed 9th in a Williams. If he doesn't get a seat for next year, that would be wrong. Look where Latifi finished, damn. 

 

That just shows how **** Latifi has been all these years.

 

Money speaks more than talent in F1.

 

In 2019, De Vries beat out Latifi in the F2 Championship fairly comfortably too.