Rocco Mediate's swing

[Ayersjj]

14 minutes ago, ggpro said:

So a lot of people want to diss Jimmy in many ways but let’s look at some facts….

 

1. He taught over 300 tour players and many were very successful (Strange, Sutton, Seve, Lyle, Jesper, Rocco, Colbert, Player, Jacobsen, Hubert Green, Dent, Durant,)

2. George Knudson, considered to be one of the greatest ball strikers of all time, worked with Ballard.

3. Ballard’s concepts come from the most successful cross over from a major league sport to the PGA Tour-Sam Byrd.

4.He brought Rocco back from being almost off the tour to taking the GOAT to 91 holes in the US Open.

5. Look at the swings of his most successful players -Sutton, Curtis, Jesper and Lyle…..do any of them look alike when they swing?

6. You can hit it long using the Ballard method (Jim Dent, DeWitt Weaver and Jesper).

7. You can hit it accurately using the Ballard method (Joe Durant, Colbert, Rocco, Sutton.

8.  A lot of Ballard concepts (right arm over left, triangle in center to waist high, let the head move etc) are used by the #1 teacher in golf, Butch Harmon.

9. Among the top teachers that think Jimmy was on track….Butch and Craig Harmon, Jim McLean, Randy Smith). David Leadbetter may have been too, he used many of Ballard’s concepts in his first book 10 years after Ballard wrote his.

 

if you listen to Sutton’s podcasts he is very bitter towards Jimmy and has a lot negative to say about him. My question is this …how many of you would give a kidney to hit it like Hal Sutton ? 

When Sutton went to see Harvey Penick , Harvey told Hal that he couldn’t improve on what Ballard had done with his swing.

 

In the 30 years that I have been around Jimmy I’ve only seen him hit wedges, I’m not sure if he even plays (common for anyone who teaches a lot) I can attest he’s improved my game and those that I have taught since 1988.

 

Interesting. I didnt know Sutton trashes Ballard on podcast? Link to that episode please ☠️ I have listened to them the only negative I have heard was Jimmy did what he could without trackman. 

[Ayersjj]

5 hours ago, ggpro said:

So a lot of people want to diss Jimmy in many ways but let’s look at some facts….

 

1. He taught over 300 tour players and many were very successful (Strange, Sutton, Seve, Lyle, Jesper, Rocco, Colbert, Player, Jacobsen, Hubert Green, Dent, Durant,)

2. George Knudson, considered to be one of the greatest ball strikers of all time, worked with Ballard.

3. Ballard’s concepts come from the most successful cross over from a major league sport to the PGA Tour-Sam Byrd.

4.He brought Rocco back from being almost off the tour to taking the GOAT to 91 holes in the US Open.

5. Look at the swings of his most successful players -Sutton, Curtis, Jesper and Lyle…..do any of them look alike when they swing?

6. You can hit it long using the Ballard method (Jim Dent, DeWitt Weaver and Jesper).

7. You can hit it accurately using the Ballard method (Joe Durant, Colbert, Rocco, Sutton.

8.  A lot of Ballard concepts (right arm over left, triangle in center to waist high, let the head move etc) are used by the #1 teacher in golf, Butch Harmon.

9. Among the top teachers that think Jimmy was on track….Butch and Craig Harmon, Jim McLean, Randy Smith). David Leadbetter may have been too, he used many of Ballard’s concepts in his first book 10 years after Ballard wrote his.

 

if you listen to Sutton’s podcasts he is very bitter towards Jimmy and has a lot negative to say about him. My question is this …how many of you would give a kidney to hit it like Hal Sutton ? 

When Sutton went to see Harvey Penick , Harvey told Hal that he couldn’t improve on what Ballard had done with his swing.

 

In the 30 years that I have been around Jimmy I’ve only seen him hit wedges, I’m not sure if he even plays (common for anyone who teaches a lot) I can attest he’s improved my game and those that I have taught since 1988.

 

Link to Sutton trashing Ballard? I listened to the podcasts and never heard that issue. 

[Boise59]

Can’t remember specifically you’ll have to listen to them like I did ! Yep 

[Chazb]

13 hours ago, Ayersjj said:

Maybe you should focus on your game and let multiple Major winners under Ballards tutelage speak for themselves about his abilities. Leadbetter use to shank the ball when called to show his student what hes talking about. Nick Price valued his tutelage. Good luck

I was not knocking Ballard because I like his stuff just answering a post where he never seen Ballard swing and it was posted on a golf web site years ago.

As far as having a bad day at the range i was going thru a fib and felt really weak that is why i quit after about a dozen balls.I have played golf before with going thru a fib and hit the ball okay but this time was really bad and i was completely lost.
I went to the range today and hit the ball very well and used some of the Ballard swings which I have used in the past .

 

 

[Ayersjj]

10 minutes ago, Chazb said:

I was not knocking Ballard because I like his stuff just answering a post where he never seen Ballard swing and it was posted on a golf web site years ago.

As far as having a bad day at the range i was going thru a fib and felt really weak that is why i quit after about a dozen balls.I have played golf before with going thru a fib and hit the ball okay but this time was really bad and i was completely lost.
I went to the range today and hit the ball very well and used some of the Ballard swings which I have used in the past .

 

 

Of all the positive contributions here you digging up a negative post from 9/2021 just to throw Question into a legitimate teachers reputation is pretty low. Jmho

[Ayersjj]

2 hours ago, ggpro said:

Can’t remember specifically you’ll have to listen to them like I did ! Yep 

I listened to them all. Never heard Sutton say anything negative of Ballard. 

[Chazb]

4 minutes ago, Ayersjj said:

Of all the positive contributions here you digging up a negative post from 9/2021 just to throw Question into a legitimate teachers reputation is pretty low.

i was not doing any digging and i was not knocking Ballard as I  just posted what some golf writer posted over twenty years ago.I don’t even know if the events were true but it was done on a golf forum.

i owned Ballards  book when I was in my thirties and used some but not all of his concepts i’m in my seventies now and my golf game maybe sucks now but i’m not the kind of person who knocks other  people on the way to teach and there are many methods to the golf swing.How you got that somehow I was knocking someone’s teaching is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

[torbill]

1 hour ago, Ayersjj said:

Of all the positive contributions here you digging up a negative post from 9/2021 just to throw Question into a legitimate teachers reputation is pretty low. Jmho

 

I’m 100% with you on this.  Nobody here took it an different than you did - it was a cheap shot and nobody here took it as anything different.  Why else would ggpro have taken all the effort to post those facts?  Why would you react?  Why would I react?  Because it was a cheap shot, nothing less.

Edited March 18, 2022 by torbill

[Ayersjj]

7 hours ago, torbill said:

 

I’m 100% with you on this.  Nobody here took it an different than you did - it was a cheap shot and nobody here took it as anything different.  Why else would ggpro have taken all the effort to post those facts?  Why would you react?  Why would I react?  Because it was a cheap shot, nothing less.

Back on subject of JB. Couple things I have been working on lately. 
 

1. coil dont lean in backswing. If my left shoulder doest work around I tend to slide into the rt hip.

 

2. high rt side thru shot folding left arm all the while getting sternum to move forward. 
 

My fav drill that helps me coil properly is the split hands.

 

Tryn to keep it simple. 

[Ayersjj]

On 11/13/2021 at 10:33 AM, torbill said:

Hello JJ!

 

You know, in my mind’s eye Colbert was as good an example of Ballard swing principles as anybody I ever saw.  The trouble is, I can’t find videos of him, in order to check out my memory.  Do you have anything?  The funny thing is, when Colbert was cleaning up on the senior tour just about every week I wasn’t into golf swing principles, so I don’t recall thinking “that’s a pure Ballard swing”, even though it was a distinctive swing.  What I do remember thinking is “Jeez, that guy hits more fairways than Calvin Peete!”. 

Wade Byman the musician is an x son in law of Colbert. Lives here in NC as well. I contacted him a few years back bc he spent countless hours with Colbert. No videos sadly. 
 

I also contacted Jane at Colbert/Ballard school for the video of a free clinic Colbert and Ballard did on facebook. For whatever reason they took it down. Colbert explained his move taught by Jimmy and was fantastic. I wish I copied it bc Jane doesnt respond to my inquiries 

 

maybe you can grab that free clinic for us? Contact Jane https://janerosenberggolf.com/meet-jane/

[chipa]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:29 AM, Ayersjj said:

Back on subject of JB. Couple things I have been working on lately. 
 

1. coil dont lean in backswing. If my left shoulder doest work around I tend to slide into the rt hip.

 

2. high rt side thru shot folding left arm all the while getting sternum to move forward. 
 

My fav drill that helps me coil properly is the split hands.

 

Tryn to keep it simple. 

 

This is what I have been working on as well. Rocco's swing is quite difrerent from what I was doing before.

 

What I have found that helps getting the left shoulder back is two things - the weight on the front of the feet as Rocco recommends and the "ball" of the arm/shoulder moves in on the body/upper chest and down at the same time to start the swing. At the top of the backswing the left shoulder shoulder be a little down in front and enough weight on the front that the lower body can easily push off to start the swing.

 

Finally, as Rocco recommends the elbows must be pointing down, however, since I don't have a coach I just remember to keep my left elbow more or less pointed down as the shoulder goes back (and slightly down).

[golfarb1]

This is from Athletic Motion Golf . For those of you familiar with Mr Ballards teachings, is this position consistent with Mr Ballards teachings ?

[Ayersjj]

25 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

This is from Athletic Motion Golf . For those of you familiar with Mr Ballards teachings, is this position consistent with Mr Ballards teachings ?

No that would be a reverse pivot

[Ayersjj]

Looking at Rocco’s release it seems like a full blown rolling of the club over, not the triangle intact. 
 

Anyone?

[vman]

2 hours ago, Ayersjj said:

Looking at Rocco’s release it seems like a full blown rolling of the club over, not the triangle intact. 
 

Anyone?

Ball's already long gone.

[chipa]

3 hours ago, Ayersjj said:

Looking at Rocco’s release it seems like a full blown rolling of the club over, not the triangle intact. 
 

Anyone?

 

 

This is a good observation and something I had trouble trying to make work after trying to master Rocco's swing numerous times over the last 2 years. Finally, in November I dedicated myself to learning this swing after realizing my back was bothering me too much.

 

Nonetheless, after looking at Rocco's and Ballard's videos my impression of what the hands do including Rocco's comment that he "doesn't swing his arms around his body" was far from reality and I hurt my left knee trying to match Rocco's takeaway move. However, after looking at his videos hundreds of times then looking at Walter Hagen's swing as well I see that Rocco does actually swing his arms around his body. Furthermore, the shorter the shot and the less weight shift needed Rocco starts to roll his left hand over with his arm and flex it in direct contrast to his takeaway technique.

 

In summary Ballard's swing technique has a lot of positives and that's why I do it. However, just like any other teaching pro out there they only partially understand the golf swing as it's quite a complicated move with many different moving parts. 

[torbill]

4 hours ago, vman said:

Ball's already long gone.

Take a look at Strange when he was working with Ballard, or Hogan for that matter, and see if you can find any instant when the triangle has broken down like it has for Rocco:

 

 

[vman]

8 hours ago, torbill said:

Take a look at Strange when he was working with Ballard, or Hogan for that matter, and see if you can find any instant when the triangle has broken down like it has for Rocco:

 

 

My comment was more in reference to the "rolling over". There is no context to the shot played and extrapulating conclusions from post impact photo stills is a pointless exercise.

[Ayersjj]

12 hours ago, vman said:

My comment was more in reference to the "rolling over". There is no context to the shot played and extrapulating conclusions from post impact photo stills is a pointless exercise.

Has anyone watched Rocco on Peacock. He talks about how Snead told him to hit down with rt shoulder. Rocco says he does that now. Wonder if he trys to lower the shoulder to point at ball at impact. 
 

confusing. 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Ayersjj

[Ayersjj]

12 hours ago, vman said:

Seems like Rocco still does alot of Ballard even tho went bak to Rick Smith. 
 

Anyone know why he left Jimmy?

Edited March 24, 2022 by Ayersjj

[Divot License]

I think if you are looking to work towards Rocco's swing you really need to dive into Jimmy Ballards methodology itself.

This is a playlist I've made of Ballard Video's from the late 80's I've found on Youtube. 

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLx4dzi0IxsscZDOPHvSaNCwYRYMPNzK-P

 

 

[Ayersjj]

8 hours ago, Ayersjj said:

 

 

 

Divot,,,

thx for the links

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Ayersjj

[Boise59]

On 3/24/2022 at 6:45 AM, Ayersjj said:

Seems like Rocco still does alot of Ballard even tho went bak to Rick Smith. 
 

Anyone know why he left Jimmy?

Jimmy has had some health issue for quite some time, Rocco had worked with Rick in the 80’s-90’s and even then his swing had Ballard fundamentals.

[Ayersjj]

Ggpro

 

I was watching Couples Masters win on youtube. Final round they showed Rocco on 16 slide bigtime into his bak leg and that was 1992 

 

Jimmy's debate w Flick in PGA summit seemed the first I heard of Jimmy health issues. It didnt keep him from teaching. One thing I always found odd these guys rebuild their games w Jimmy win majors then leave. Only Colbert and Thompson seem to be complimentary to Ballard as they fade into retirement. Whatzzzzup w these guys that leave and become crickets? Did they disagree w Jimmys teaching or what? I dont get it…

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Ayersjj

[chipa]

On 3/14/2022 at 2:38 PM, Ayersjj said:

JC Snead played a cut shot w Ballard method keeping the right side high and was a long hitter. 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E522rf3FmR8

 

 

Thanks for this video. After reviewing this video and others from Sam Byrd and Walter Hagen I see that the technique that most interests me is the high right shoulder downswing as opposed to all of Ballard's concepts.

 

This "high right shoulder swing"  is easier on my back and also helps with hooking as the hands seem more subordinate.

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

On 3/23/2022 at 12:17 PM, Ayersjj said:

Looking at Rocco’s release it seems like a full blown rolling of the club over, not the triangle intact. 
 

Anyone?

I thought the triangle is still intact. Elbows are level. As he continues, club will bisect the the elbows more and club will come over left shoulder as elbows fold.

[torbill]

1 hour ago, chipa said:

 

 

Thanks for this video. After reviewing this video and others from Sam Byrd and Walter Hagen I see that the technique that most interests me is the high right shoulder downswing as opposed to all of Ballard's concepts.

 

This "high right shoulder swing"  is easier on my back and also helps with hooking as the hands seem more subordinate.

 

Not sure what your comment is about.  Ballard teaches high right shoulder.

[chipa]

4 hours ago, torbill said:

 

Not sure what your comment is about.  Ballard teaches high right shoulder.

 

Thanks I know he does that if I didn't make it clear. I am referring to other technique he teaches(seen from videos w/Rocco) like for example moving the weight laterally to the right side at the start of the swing(my weight starts on my right side), both elbows pointing down(I only worry about the left elbow.

 

Seeing other players with a high right shoulder made me realize I don't have to incorporate all of Ballard's concepts to swing with a high right side too.

[Ayersjj]

10 hours ago, chipa said:

 

Thanks I know he does that if I didn't make it clear. I am referring to other technique he teaches(seen from videos w/Rocco) like for example moving the weight laterally to the right side at the start of the swing(my weight starts on my right side), both elbows pointing down(I only worry about the left elbow.

 

Seeing other players with a high right shoulder made me realize I don't have to incorporate all of Ballard's concepts to swing with a high right side too.

Alot of players try to cover the ball. Some like to feel chest over the ball. Anything to get weight moving forward not hanging bak and flipping the release. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ayersjj

[cardoustie]

The two keys Jimmy says in the first vid that helped me immensely … stay tall, and fire right side targetwards 

 

for me the rest move is right tilt, then I am stuck under and flip hook city