9i Shaft in a 3i - does it work?

[jjinsa]

Hi everyone, 

 

I have had this idea, which is kind of "Bryson-ish".  I only really play my 4i-PW and my 3i stands alone.  In fact when I re-shafted my irons to PX 6, I did not do the 3i as I never use it.  At my local range, the small pro shop had a PX 6 9i that was laying around, so I asked him to put it in my 3i and then bend the lie angle +4 deg to that of a 9i, so effectively I will have a 3i loft club, at a 9i length shaft.  

 

I have high swing speed, so distance is not an issue, and I am trying to find a club I can hit about 220y (200m) with ease and consistency.  So I had the idea as per above.  

 

Are there any reasons from a "club making" point of view that would make this not work?  A 3i head on a 9i shaft, what length could I expect - my random guess was somewhere in-between a 3i and 9i length - lets say a 6i distance for me?  Would that be accurate?

My distances are as follows (yards)

9i - 165, 6i - 210-220, 4i - 230-250y

Edited October 26, 2021 by jjinsa
Forgot some info

[Valtiel]

If the 9-iron shaft is new/uncut then you won't end up a club that is too much shorter than a standard 3i. If it is already cut for 9i length then what you will end up with is a very stiff/boardy shaft and a head that is quite light for that length. You're hardstepping the shaft 6 times which is significant, and the club will feel significantly lighter and stiffer than the rest of your set assuming somewhat conventional specs. A lot of headweight would likely need to be added. 

[jjinsa]

38 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

If the 9-iron shaft is new/uncut then you won't end up a club that is too much shorter than a standard 3i. If it is already cut for 9i length then what you will end up with is a very stiff/boardy shaft and a head that is quite light for that length. You're hardstepping the shaft 6 times which is significant, and the club will feel significantly lighter and stiffer than the rest of your set assuming somewhat conventional specs. A lot of headweight would likely need to be added. 

Thank you - it was from an existing 9i, so it is at 9i playing length.   Why will it not be the same stiffness as if a 9i head was on the end of the shaft?  What about putting a 3i head on it makes it stiffer than when it had a 9i head on it?

 

Adding weight how do I do that?  metal tape?

[Howard_Jones]

12 minutes ago, jjinsa said:

Thank you - it was from an existing 9i, so it is at 9i playing length.   Why will it not be the same stiffness as if a 9i head was on the end of the shaft?  What about putting a 3i head on it makes it stiffer than when it had a 9i head on it?

 

Adding weight how do I do that?  metal tape?

Head weight goes up 7 grams average pr club shorter, and as a guide line a #3 head is 240 grams (+/-2) and a #9 iron head is 282 grams (+/-2)

Taper tip shafts is designed for the head weight we use, and the typical play lengths we use, so when we goes down on head weight, the shaft will play stronger, but it will also be hard to feel the head during the swing when we go as short as a #9 (minus 3 inches)

It will be very hard to replace 42 grams of head weight, but a advanced club maker can do that, but he will need tools we normally dont have in a club maker shop, or skills and knowledge way over and beyond the average.

So theoretically it can be done, but NOT with lead tape. (you need more than a meter of it since normal lead tape is only 1 gram pr inch and you need 42 inches = 107 cm, and that will make the head look like a "odd egyptian mummy".)

 

[Valtiel]

19 minutes ago, jjinsa said:

Thank you - it was from an existing 9i, so it is at 9i playing length.   Why will it not be the same stiffness as if a 9i head was on the end of the shaft?  What about putting a 3i head on it makes it stiffer than when it had a 9i head on it?

 

Adding weight how do I do that?  metal tape?

The shafts that make up a traditional iron set are never all the same flex, they are (more or less) designed to PLAY at the same flex throughout the set, but the heads get progressively heavier as they get shorter. The heavier the head, the more force it exerts on the shaft during the swing, making it flex more. An average 9-iron head will be something around 40g+ heavier than a 3-iron head, so the shaft has to designed to allow for that. Therefore a 9-iron shaft is significantly stiffer than a 3-iron shaft within the same set. This is where "stepping" comes in e.g. shifting the shafts around to different heads. Bumping them all down one club (3i shaft into 4i head, 4i shaft into 5i head etc etc) will make the whole set slightly softer, and vice versa. 

[Alan Pllu]

26 minutes ago, jjinsa said:

Thank you - it was from an existing 9i, so it is at 9i playing length.   Why will it not be the same stiffness as if a 9i head was on the end of the shaft?  What about putting a 3i head on it makes it stiffer than when it had a 9i head on it?

 

Adding weight how do I do that?  metal tape?

Assuming an average 7g weight progression between clubs then the 9i is roughly 42g heavier than the 3i. The 9i shaft needs to be stiffer than the 3i shaft to play the same flex feeling for the heavier head. 

 

Club heads get progressively heavier as the club gets shorter so the swingweight is the same in the long irons as it is in the short irons. If they didn't you would have really heavy long irons in comparison to really light short irons. 

 

Thats how hard/soft stepping works, since shafts get stiffer as the get shorter. Longer iron shaft in a shorter club plays softer, shorter iron shaft in a longer club plays stiffer. 

[Alan Pllu]

I was typing that as the others had posted. Now sounds like an echo in here! 

[Howard_Jones]

Here is how that can be done, but it depends on head shape.
My first grinding job ever, ended with a weight loss of 26 grams (way to much), and to replace that weight, i made a steel plate i fitted to the back of the heads, and the same could be done to replace or add 42 grams if that was needed, but it takes some handyman skills.

Here i have prepared the back of the head (made it "flat") and pre-shaped the steel plate who is about 30 grams as a start.


Here the steel plate is glued to the back of the head using shaft epoxy.



Further grinding on the steel plate is done to make a good fit, and to reduce weight down to target head weight.


Old Black oxide is stripped, and the heads are "brushed" with 320 grit as prepare for new Black oxide.



All 3 wedges done and back in the bag with new Black Oxide treatment



So, yes, it can be done if you absolutely wants to, and we can even make it good looking, but it takes a fruitcake like me to be crazy enough to do it. (about 4 hours job pr. head using hand tools only) 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[jjinsa]

25 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Head weight goes up 7 grams average pr club shorter, and as a guide line a #3 head is 240 grams (+/-2) and a #9 iron head is 282 grams (+/-2)

Taper tip shafts is designed for the head weight we use, and the typical play lengths we use, so when we goes down on head weight, the shaft will play stronger, but it will also be hard to feel the head during the swing when we go as short as a #9 (minus 3 inches)

It will be very hard to replace 42 grams of head weight, but a advanced club maker can do that, but he will need tools we normally dont have in a club maker shop, or skills and knowledge way over and beyond the average.

So theoretically it can be done, but NOT with lead tape. (you need more than a meter of it since normal lead tape is only 1 gram pr inch and you need 42 inches = 107 cm, and that will make the head look like a "odd egyptian mummy".)

 

Haha thank you 👍

[jjinsa]

20 minutes ago, Alan Pllu said:

I was typing that as the others had posted. Now sounds like an echo in here! 

At least now I understand for sure 😂

[jjinsa]

13 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Here is how that can be done, but it depends on head shape.
My first grinding job ever, ended with a weight loss of 26 grams (way to much), and to replace that weight, i made a steel plate i fitted to the back of the heads, and the same could be done to replace or add 42 grams if that was needed, but it takes some handyman skills.

Here i have prepared the back of the head (made it "flat") and pre-shaped the steel plate who is about 30 grams as a start.


Here the steel plate is glued to the back of the head using shaft epoxy.



Further grinding on the steel plate is done to make a good fit, and to reduce weight down to target head weight.


Old Black oxide is stripped, and the heads are "brushed" with 320 grit as prepare for new Black oxide.



All 3 wedges done and back in the bag with new Black Oxide treatment



So, yes, it can be done if you absolutely wants to, and we can even make it good looking, but it takes a fruitcake like me to be crazy enough to do it. (about 4 hours job pr. head using hand tools only) 

You are a master. Amazing job 

[Howard_Jones]

2 minutes ago, jjinsa said:

You are a master. Amazing job 

I was a gun smith in the army in my younger days, decades before i became a Golf Club maker, so this was pure fun, and i had the most advanced club fitting and club maker studio in Europe, but im retired now. If i was still up and running, you could have sent that club to me and had it modified to what ever specs you wanted, including moving COG for added or reduced spin and launch as you liked, so i accepted and made all legal mods technically possible.

My work shop while it still existed...All legal modifications possible could be done, but i it will be hard to find a club maker shop like this and someone with the needed knowledge in South Africa, since we are now adding so much weight that we have to do it right to get center of gravity where we want to, if not that club head want work good.



 

[Kevmonton]

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Here is how that can be done, but it depends on head shape.
My first grinding job ever, ended with a weight loss of 26 grams (way to much), and to replace that weight, i made a steel plate i fitted to the back of the heads, and the same could be done to replace or add 42 grams if that was needed, but it takes some handyman skills.

Here i have prepared the back of the head (made it "flat") and pre-shaped the steel plate who is about 30 grams as a start.


Here the steel plate is glued to the back of the head using shaft epoxy.



Further grinding on the steel plate is done to make a good fit, and to reduce weight down to target head weight.


Old Black oxide is stripped, and the heads are "brushed" with 320 grit as prepare for new Black oxide.



All 3 wedges done and back in the bag with new Black Oxide treatment



So, yes, it can be done if you absolutely wants to, and we can even make it good looking, but it takes a fruitcake like me to be crazy enough to do it. (about 4 hours job pr. head using hand tools only) 

Very nice work Howard.

[JCAG]

7 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

I was a gun smith in the army in my younger days, decades before i became a Golf Club maker, so this was pure fun, and i had the most advanced club fitting and club maker studio in Europe, but im retired now. If i was still up and running, you could have sent that club to me and had it modified to what ever specs you wanted, including moving COG for added or reduced spin and launch as you liked, so i accepted and made all legal mods technically possible.

My work shop while it still existed...All legal modifications possible could be done, but i it will be hard to find a club maker shop like this and someone with the needed knowledge in South Africa, since we are now adding so much weight that we have to do it right to get center of gravity where we want to, if not that club head want work good.



 

Howard

 

Refresh my memory as to why you closed your shop. I closed mine in 2002 as I saw the golf business slowing down especially the small custom club type shop business, and I was financially able to do so and retire south to the warm weather.

Edited October 26, 2021 by JCAG

[Howard_Jones]

3 minutes ago, JCAG said:

Howard

 

Refresh my memory as to why you closed your shop. I closed mine in 2002 as I saw the golf business slowing down especially the small custom club type shop business, and I was financially able to do so and retire.

Its against the forums rules to debate politics, but the reason is called corrupted authorities who can do as they like without ever being put under charges for it. (bankruptcy due to a impossible "computer error" at the "IRS", but i did not own anyone a dime for anything, and when they found out, they fixed the error, but not the damage done).