Check my Iron Swing Weight Progression

[maximusppl]

Hello,

I am a hobbyist and recently got a Golf Works Premium Swing Weight Scale. I just received my new iron set and was testing out the swing weights and saw an interesting progression:

 

Titleist T100S Heads, KBS $-Taper 120 Stiff, -0.25" Length, MCC Standard Grips +2 Tape

5i - D3 

6i - D3

7i - D3

8i - D3.5

9i - D3.5

PW - D5

GW - D5

 

Now I don't necessarily think that is a huge issue as the progression up the set is somewhat relative, but if i find the PW and GW a tad too "heavy", could I bring them back down using the MCC+4 grip instead (which is 52g) instead of the MCC (which is 46.5grams)? 

Edited January 19, 2022 by maximusppl

[Hawkeye77]

The D3 to D3.5 may not be a progression. 
 

It’s not unusual for wedges to be higher SW. 

[maximusppl]

32 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

The D3 to D3.5 may not be a progression. 
 

It’s not unusual for wedges to be higher SW. 

Yea, I was expecting the PW and GW to be D4 but it's 2 swingpoints higher than my 7i. Maybe not a terrible thing and just have to hit them to see if it makes any difference. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by maximusppl

[Stuart_G]

50 minutes ago, maximusppl said:

but if i find the PW and GW a tad too "heavy",

 

Did you find this to be the case before you got the scale and measured them - or only after?

 

50 minutes ago, maximusppl said:

could I bring them back down using the MCC+4 grip instead (which is 52g) instead of the MCC (which is 46.5grams)? 

 

Increasing butt weight will get a lower value on the scale but it wont necessarily make the heads feel any lighter.  The swing weight scale and concept was only designed to manage head weight and length changes, not butt weight changes.  So any change in value from butt weight changes is not going to be representative of how the actual feel changes for most.      You can try it and see what happens to the feel for you - but that's the only way to know if it will work or not.  The only truly reliable way to lower the head weight feel is to either go with a shorter playing length or find a way to reduce the actual head weight.

[NPSpar4]

38 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Did you find this to be the case before you got the scale and measured them - or only after?

 

 

Increasing butt weight will get a lower value on the scale but it wont necessarily make the heads feel any lighter.  The swing weight scale and concept was only designed to manage head weight and length changes, not butt weight changes.  So any change in value from butt weight changes is not going to be representative of how the actual feel changes for most.      You can try it and see what happens to the feel for you - but that's the only way to know if it will work or not.  The only truly reliable way to lower the head weight feel is to either go with a shorter playing length or find a way to reduce the actual head weight.

The more time on here reading, the more you see how people misuse the SW scale.  Hitting a target SW on a scale isnt the best use…hit the clubs. Feel what works & what feels too light, too heavy…then measure that club.   Then shoot for THAT target.   I have hit D5 that felt great & D5 that felt too heavy.   Same at the lower end. I have played C9 that didnt feel too light but other C9s felt awful.  I know its tough to not get caught up in the number and i have certainly done it & built sets that way but hitting the club and getting the right feel is first step.   imo

[maximusppl]

Excellent points! I have a tendency to over-analyze and get a head of myself. In this case, I was already looking for a solution just IN CASE there was a problem with the feel. I will make sure they feel good first, and if for whatever reason they don't, i shall seek to adjust them, in whatever fashion. I will report back. Thank you all for great questions/suggestions/feedback. I am learning a lot... 🤓

Edited January 19, 2022 by maximusppl

[NPSpar4]

4 hours ago, maximusppl said:

Excellent points! I have a tendency to over-analyze and get a head of myself. In this case, I was already looking for a solution just IN CASE there was a problem with the feel. I will make sure they feel good first, and if for whatever reason they don't, i shall seek to adjust them, in whatever fashion. I will report back. Thank you all for great questions/suggestions/feedback. I am learning a lot... 🤓

Good plan…i like to build up the PW, 7, and 4 irons.   Take em to range, hit em, see how they feel. Add lead tape to get em how you like.  Then measure on the scale.   I have created tons more work for myself when i measure before trying. Lol.  I’ve ripped clubs apart and built to a SW before even trying them.   We all love to over analyze, which is what makes golf so damn great…but lot less work going the route you mentioned. Haha.    GL

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, maximusppl said:

Excellent points! I have a tendency to over-analyze and get a head of myself. In this case, I was already looking for a solution just IN CASE there was a problem with the feel. I will make sure they feel good first, and if for whatever reason they don't, i shall seek to adjust them, in whatever fashion. I will report back. Thank you all for great questions/suggestions/feedback. I am learning a lot... 🤓

I have a similar if not slightly more aggressive progression in swingweight in my set (D3->D7) so I would definitely encourage testing first, especially given what you mentioned being prone to. If you were to have a consistent swingweight value across all your clubs (lets say D3) with constant weight shafts like what you have (the shafts are the same weight across all clubs) then the long irons will feel heavier and the short irons lighter. For some people this is fine, but we've seen a slow/steady shift towards mitigating this imbalance by having sets slightly increase in SW as the clubs get shorter to create a more consistent feel across the set. There is actually a better chance that longer clubs are the ones you'll find a little too heavy, but regardless it's best to completely put SW values out of your mind and spend time hitting the clubs to let them tell you what is or isn't needed. SW is best served as a means to put a value to a feeling you have already found for yourself, NOT as a means to give you a value to tell you what you should be feeling. This is doubly true with the aforementioned points about grip weight and how it "tricks" the swingweight scale since it was a design that was never intended to account for that variable. 

[Nessism]

Is the scale properly leveled?  If not, it won't weigh properly.  

 

Considering the 120 gram shafts and relatively short length, I agree that those clubs are on the heavy side of average.  What matters though is how they feel in your hands.  I'm NOT a fan of the approach of swingweighing every club based on feel, but I do think feel is a critical factor in how you set up the set.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Nessism

[Howard_Jones]

23 hours ago, NPSpar4 said:

The more time on here reading, the more you see how people misuse the SW scale.  Hitting a target SW on a scale isnt the best use…hit the clubs. Feel what works & what feels too light, too heavy…then measure that club.   Then shoot for THAT target.   I have hit D5 that felt great & D5 that felt too heavy.   Same at the lower end. I have played C9 that didnt feel too light but other C9s felt awful.  I know its tough to not get caught up in the number and i have certainly done it & built sets that way but hitting the club and getting the right feel is first step.   imo

This, read it, then read it again, then bookmark it, print it, and to make sure, read it again and see if you can memorize it, if not, read it again until you can and understand it.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[NPSpar4]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

This, read it, then read it again, then bookmark it, print it, and to make sure, read it again and see if you can memorize it, if not, read it again until you can and understand it.

thanks @Howard_Jones    After much research on here and then plenty of testing on my own, this is one of the main things I have learned from yourself and plenty of others.   It's very easy to trick the scale....especially by manipulating grips, but it doesn't always translate to feel of the club.    and one of the all time best tools i have found after building clubs & testing, etc.....is LEAD TAPE....haha

everyone should have it, everyone should use it for testing and worry about the SW scale later......  

[maximusppl]

13 hours ago, Nessism said:

Is the scale properly leveled?  If not, it won't weigh properly.  

 

Considering the 120 gram shafts and relatively short length, I agree that those clubs are on the heavy side of average.  What matters though is how they feel in your hands.  I'm NOT a fan of the approach of swingweighing every club based on feel, but I do think feel is a critical factor in how you set up the set.

 

 

 

Yes, it's calibrated. I leveled it and make sure it balances when it's at "0". Different builders use different tactics when building the set. I asked to retain swingweight if we are shortening the clubs. Again, not a big deal and there are a few ways i can adjust (lead tape, grips, rebuild) if the swingweights and FEEL are wildly off. I will be hitting the set here over the next few days. Again, I just sent myself into Analysis Paralysis before verifying... I also know that I like my new SW and LW at D6, so the PW and GW wouldn't be too far off, but again i'll verify.  Thanks again for the advice and help on this one. I will report back on any clubs if the feel is wildly off. 

[Howard_Jones]

On 1/20/2022 at 3:13 PM, NPSpar4 said:

thanks @Howard_Jones    After much research on here and then plenty of testing on my own, this is one of the main things I have learned from yourself and plenty of others.   It's very easy to trick the scale....especially by manipulating grips, but it doesn't always translate to feel of the club.    and one of the all time best tools i have found after building clubs & testing, etc.....is LEAD TAPE....haha

everyone should have it, everyone should use it for testing and worry about the SW scale later......  

The SW scale is a very good instrument for duplication of club specs we have found to work on THIS set up, NEVER from another, so its simply a "time line question"....

For irons the ideal is to build the longest and the shortest clubs without even thinking about SW.

Go out and test those club, use lead tape to tune both so they feels and works as you wants them, again, dont think of number values at all, be it grams or SW.

When they works as you want them, go home and measure SW value and total wgt. Draw the slope from longest to shortest, build the other clubs to those specs. THATS the ONLY way to use this instrument right, and what it was meant for.

The problem is that most reverse the time line and think they know what "D3" means.....they dont, and they never will.

ONLY if we build a identical set as the last one, we can go strait on.
If its different shafts, lengths, grips, we CANT.
Then we have to do it like above, or we are fooling our self BIG TIME.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[NPSpar4]

3 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

The SW scale is a very good instrument for duplication of club specs we have found to work on THIS set up, NEVER from another, so its simply a "time line question"....

For irons the ideal is to build the longest and the shortest clubs without even thinking about SW.
Go out and test those club, use lead tape to tune both so they feels and works as you wants them, again, dont think of number values at all, be it grams or SW.

When they works as you want them, go home and measure SW value and total wgt.
Draw the slope from longest to shortest, build the other clubs to those specs.
THATS the ONLY way to use this instrument right, and what it was meant for.

The problem is that most reverse the time line and think they know what "D3" means.....they dont, and they never will.

ONLY if we build a identical set as the last one, we can go strait on.
If its different shafts, lengths, grips, we CANT.

Then we have to do it like above, or we are fooling our self BIG TIME.

BINGO......thankfully lead tape exists.