Is putting skill something you are "born with" or something that you learn?

[iacas]

12 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

So are you trying to say that as a 4 cap my putt count should be much lower?  Well, it isn't.  Like I said before, I have some deficiencies in other areas of my game but putting is what saves my a**. 

 

Yes, as a 4 handicap, your putt count should be a bit lower.

 

Golfers in your handicap range take about 1.9 putts per GIR and just over 1.5 putts per missed GIR. If you hit 9 greens, that's 1.9 * 9 + 1.52 * 9 < 31 putts per round.

 

Now, add in all the caveats about how counting putts is a bad way to measure this (it is, because again if you're counting fringes that's not a putt, if your greens are huge you could hit a GIR but be 70 feet away… etc.). But still, you've got a shot or two to save by putting better, it seems.

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by iacas

[phizzy30]

Just now, iacas said:

 

Yes, as a 4 handicap, your putt count should be a bit lower.

 

Golfers in your handicap range take about 1.9 putts per GIR and just over 1.5 putts per missed GIR. If you hit 9 greens, that's 1.9 * 9 + 1.52 * 9 < 31 putts per round.

 

Now, add in all the caveats about how counting putts is a bad way to measure this (it is, because again if you're counting fringes that's not a putt, if your greens are huge you could hit a GIR but be 70 feet away… etc.). But still, you've got a shot or two to save by putting better, it seems.

 

I'm probably closer to 33 putts per round then since I have been counting fringe putts.  Seems like you're a teaching or tour pro so your input is meaningful to me so I thank you for that. 

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, Varry_Hardon said:

Agree on all accounts, having a true dispersion of all putts distance is important in my opinion, again to manage expectations and to allot limited practice time. Funny enough, I've seen a few studies that show that the biggest differenciator in Strokes gained putting on tour is from 4.5 feet; great putters convert their share way more than bad ones and it's a frequent distance range.

 

That definitely makes sense: "automatic within 5 feet" would be a great thing, and if you make every 5 footer, then a lot more 8 footers will drop than if you are 60% from 5 feet. 

[iacas]

26 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

I'm probably closer to 33 putts per round then since I have been counting fringe putts.  Seems like you're a teaching or tour pro so your input is meaningful to me so I thank you for that. 

 

Putt count doesn't increase with handicap as much as you think… because worse players miss more greens and thus have shorter first putts (i.e. after a chip instead of a 7I approach shot).

[PracticeSwinger]

37 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Putt count doesn't increase with handicap as much as you think… because worse players miss more greens and thus have shorter first putts (i.e. after a chip instead of a 7I approach shot).

Just to add to this point, from Arccos

[RoyalMustang]

On 5/13/2023 at 11:31 AM, Dan Drake said:

Like everything else in life, you can learn to be good at putting..............Up to a point.  The truly exceptional putters have (almost assuredly) worked just as hard as the good putters, but they are born with something just a bit different. 

 

That's part of the puzzle that is golf.  Figuring out what you have "talent" for and then were you are deficient and determining the correct ROI for skill improvement along those needs. 

 

For instance, while Bubba Watson was winning the Masters twice over a few years and reaching his highest levels as a professional golfer, he was consistently ranked outside the top 100 in bunker play.  Doesn't make sense since he has great hands and imagination, right?  He "should" be a great bunker player.  Until you realize that he led the tour in GIR for a LONG time meaning he didn't really get into very many bunkers so there wasn't a ton of ROI for him to put in the work to go from #144 to #14 or whatever.  But someone like Luke Donald, who wasn't blessed with Bubba's ability to create speed, absolutely HAD to get great at bunker play to compete.  

 

Scoring aside, there is also just what you can emotionally deal with.  Which negatively impacts your enjoyment of the game more, missing a couple of 4' putts a round or blowing 2 drives OB?  Because most of us really only have the time to devote to getting better at one of these skills (speaking very generally/broad brush here team, don't roast me on specifics please!). I know I'm a good putter, but also one who is going to miss short putts regularly UNLESS I am playing/practicing my short putts very regularly.  So if it is my first round in a month or something, I don't let it get to me.  I know the reason I miss them and I know the fix.  No big deal.  But having ZERO idea where the driver is going, now that infuriates me so I HAVE to make sure I'm keeping up with that first and foremost.  

 

Ultimately, it comes down to what your personal Expectation Management System can handle best.  

 

Great post: I know I probably won't ever be "exceptional" at putting, and I really don't need to be as I am not trying to become a pro. I just want to be average for my cap; no huge holes in any one area of my game while making sure that my big strength (distance and accuracy off the tee) flows into throwing darts from 50-100 yards in on par 4s and then converting a reasonable handful of those birdie chances. 

 

As someone else above posted, there isn't anything much more frustrating than missing a ton of 8-15 foot birdie opportunities and watching someone scramble their way to match your par on every hole. 

[RoyalMustang]

On 5/13/2023 at 11:24 AM, sliderwrx said:

I can offer you this which is my experience. I was formerly a club/teaching pro, from age 21-33. Gave many lessons, played some tournaments. Even then the ball striking came easy to me but I was THE WORST putter ever to tee it up for money. Fast forward to being 47. I never let my hdcp get above 3 in all those years.

 

At 47 I put together a plan with some people who had played on tour/ made it to the senior tour. that was my goal. We did the math, broke it down into statistics and kind of turned it into a logistics problem to be solved.

 

First was putter fitting, I'm a Ping player, so time with iPing app, and a fitting thru the app and at Ping in the lab. Narrowed the quiver down to only putters that showed consistency in all the metrics. I used to have 20 (?) putters, now I have 5. All the same fit, basically all the same putter.

Second was working with iPing to have my stroke be as consistent as I could make it. My iPing hdcp was around +5. I also worked on rolling the vertical line drill until 90% of my putts from any distance rolled the line without it wobbling.

Third, I took lessons on green reading from the pros in my area who were known to be good at it, former tour players, 'guys who could putt'

Fourth, I did speed drills, constantly. At every course I played I'd show up 90 minutes prior to my tee time and spend 45 of them just figuring out speed for the day.

 

I worked at all that for about 2 years, not as a full time job, but most of the practicing I did was from 150 yds and in, around the greens, and on as many different sets of greens as I could find. Some were super slopey, some flat, some fast, some slow. The goal was to apply the green reading lessons I had gotten to the actual on course execution.

 

At 49 I had my home hdcp down to +6, I traveled to around a +3. Then came tournaments. I was really surprised that for the most part all that I had learned held up. in 12-14 mini tour events I played in I maybe had 2 3 putts total. 

But...and here is where I think putting is voodoo, I never was able to find the key or the handle that let me make a buncha 12-25 footers. Which is where a player turns a 72 into a 66 or 67. Don't get me wrong, all the time and energy I put into it was totally worth it. To this day at 54, I still putt pretty good, (I'm a 1.9) occasionally I get a couple of the 12-25's to drop. The toughest part was/is handling the frustration that comes from hitting good approaches 15 feet 5 holes in a row and being even par. I'm not patient by nature, this was worse. Ultimately real life called and I gave up on thinking I was good enough to play for the real money.

 

All this ^^ leads to my advice fwiw:

Get a putter fitting. A poorly fit putter can cost you more strokes than anything else in your bag thats misfit.

If you have more than 1 putter, IMO they should all be similar to the gamer and all the same fit. I.E. A few different anser heads/ mallets, whatever your preference is. Don't try to go from an anser to a face balanced thing. There is too much difference in the way they swing to keep your stroke consistent

Learn to roll the vertical line without it wobbling. The better your putter fitting, the easier this is. This ensures you're launching the ball off the face the same every time.

Practice with iPing or something similar. I prefer iPing because it measures the actual swinging of the putter. The goal is consistency. You'd like the majority of your strokes to be the same. Once the launch off the face is the same every time, then you're ready to hit your starting points most of the time.

There are a bunch of different ways for learning green reading and speed control. Try a few different ones until you find what works for you. It may be 1 system, it may

be a combo of all of them. 

 

I know it sounds like a bunch of work, and it is. But the nice thing about putting is you can do all this in smaller bites. Got an hour? Go roll the line that day....like that. I'm not saying you'll go from bad to great if you do this stuff. I certainly didn't. Because putting is voodoo. But I do think you can go from bad to good, maybe very good. To the point where you don't show up to play gripping that you'r going to hockey the thing around on the greens all day.

Hope it helps  

 

Hey, thanks. I will definitely sign up for a putting fit session. It may also reveal some flaws in my stroke.

 

I had a putting lesson recently from the guy I take lessons from 5-6 times a year: everything felt completely stiff and mechanical, even after practicing it for a couple of days. Just no "flow" even though I was draining putts with his eye-line type of alignment tool. Once it was gone, no bueno. I actually went backwards. He said that there is only one good stance/way to putt, but I know when I feel balanced, smooth, and can feel the head of the putter moving past the center of my body while in balance. That isn't a stiff, mechanical move.

[RoyalMustang]

21 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Golf Digest surveyed PGA Tour players, and they had something like 3.4 swing thoughts. Jordan Spieth has talked about how he had three swing thoughts he'd cycle in and out depending on things while playing golf back in 2015 to 2017.

 

I'm a very good putter. I sometimes have to think a little of taking the face back slightly hooded (feel, it's not actually closing)… and I still putt really well while doing it. Often a bit better than I had been putting (still well), because that's why I need to make that correction/adjustment.

 

People are different. I could argue that thinking only of "target" is results oriented, and sometimes thinking about doing whatever with the face (my example) is process oriented. Of course, I'm still aware of the target, I'm just not thinking ONLY about it.

 

Long story short: everyone's a bit different, and it's generally a bad idea to say "never" and "always" (fully realizing I just said "everyone").

 

3 to 4 swing thoughts seem about right, at least for a full-swing perspective. 

for me, it is stay solid on front/left leg during backswing (no excessive left knee bend), which means my right hip goes up and back rather than just back and I stay centered rather than drift back; get to the top and complete the swing/pause; and initiate by pushing the right hip forward while keeping left shoulder connected. It sounds like a lot, but if I am doing one better than the other, I can focus on the one that is really hurting me that day. 

I don't know my putting stroke well enough to have much "thoughts" there. 

[RoyalMustang]

2 hours ago, Varry_Hardon said:

Just to add to this point, from Arccos

 

Who is this for? Tour pro? 

 

I was 11/18 GIR last weekend, 2-putted every save chance, and make 3 birdies. That's 33 putts; definitely room to improve! I figure a more average putter for a 5 cap would have been 30-31, especially as I had very short proximity on a lot of those (the 0/7 for save opportunities, most of which were 6-12 feet, shows that). 

 

It didn't help that 5 of the 7 scrambling opportunities came after I duffed or skulled a wedge within 75 yards and missed the green: luckily I got that sorted out after hole 10 and realized what I was doing wrong. 

[iacas]

7 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

Who is this for? Tour pro? 

 

Arccos users. Not a lot of Tour pros are out there hitting 5 GIR.

[MelloYello]

@RoyalMustang

 

As recent as just 2-3 years ago I was probably about where you are now, frustration had given way to exhaustion. I was really terrible on the green. I felt like I somehow regressed from even my beginner days, LOL. That sounds like a joke but it's not.

 

The more I tried to be diligent out on the course, the worse the results seemed to get. Nothing felt natural. I was about a 4-5 index overall but would routinely putt 36+ times per round. I had a couple rounds where I shot 80-ish with around 40-putts!

 

First off, I had the advantage of being honest with myself. I've never had a big ego. I had never spent time practicing putting so being bad didn't strike me as all that terrible. It just gave me some appreciation for how much of a skill it really is.

 

I spent all my time focusing on long game which is why I was a single-digit index. I peaked at around a 3-index at one point so I do believe it's good to focus on long game early on. Putting can definitely be learned later. There's no reason to beat yourself up because you didn't start at the earliest possible moment. Yeah, that would've been ideal, but while putting like an elite may be hard, putting respectably isn't. You can fix a lot of your issues pretty directly with some effort.

 

My biggest concern were the 3-4 shots I was dropping every round from inside 3-ft. The saving grace of those 2- and 3-footers is that you don't need to worry about speed, eye dominance or anything of that advanced stuff. And it's not even really about mental stuff or your "process" either. Here's my advice >> Use a series of tests to see just what the issues are in your putting and work on a stroke that you can return to day-in, day-out. No more using different "feels" day-to-day. 

 

If putting isn't your natural area of expertise, you're going to have to commit to a somewhat more regimented approach, but that's 90% of the world, bud. So join the club! The results are well worth it. 

 

Working on putting and fixing my issues helped get me down to a scratch! 

 

 

Test #1 - Gate drill

Buy a Dave Pelz Putting Tutor (or a knock-off like pictured below). Phil Mickelson made these popular a decade ago when his Secrets of the Short Game came out. It's a super convenient putting gate you can use at home or on the practice green. Don't worry what it costs (what's pictured is $30). You'll use it everyday to check that you're starting the ball on line.

 

See if you can start the ball on your intended line using the narrowest setting. The results of this type of test/drill speak to your ability to deliver the putter face square. This is a good measure of your stroke. 

 

When I started, I used a conventional grip and was relatively flippy. I found this drill somewhat troublesome when I began. These days, I putt left-hand-low and can pass the gate drill test pretty effortlessly. 

 

Furthermore, while I used to miss on both sides relatively equally, I now know that almost 100% of my misses are pushes. This is helpful, too, because I can better understand my faults and implement the fix immediately.

 

 

Test #2 - Chalk Line

Buy a chalk line and snap one down on your nearest putting green. You can also use a training mat if it has a line (but I'd prefer something at least 10-ft). The point is merely to test your ability to putt the ball along a visible line out to some decent distance (~10-ft).

 

See how many you can make and determine whether this is easy or hard for you. The goal would be to make 6 or so in a row and to maybe lip out the misses. This tests your setup (which is a huge fundamental).

 

Keep in mind that with the chalk line on the ground you obviously don't need to even glance at where the hole is, so don't use your eyes to look at the hole. The point is to test your ability to set up (ideally square) and roll the ball on the intended line which is literally drawn on the ground. This is like bowling with the bumpers on. If you can't set up square and roll the ball on a chalk line you have a clear issue. 

 

Test #3 - Line on the Ball

Draw a thick, black line on the ball and roll it end over end. If you can't do this you obviously have some misalignment with face & path which is leading to subtle sidespin. It's critical that you be able to roll the ball end-over-end not only because it shows a good stroke but because you should (in theory) be able to make everything inside of 2- or 3-ft using the alignment aid. 

 

Just align the ball at the cup, step in and roll it in end-over-end. If you can pass the gate drill, start the ball on line and use the alignment aid to aim the ball you will become much better at short putts. If you can at least improve with the tap-ins you'll be well on your way. 

 

Notice I did not even get to working on speed nor did I harp on eye dominance or putting under pressure. IMHO that's all very advanced stuff and people like you (and me) need to focus on being able to do the really basic stuff first. 

 

 

Finally...

 

Also, I'd be misleading you if I didn't tell you how trash my putting stroke & setup was when I began my journey 2-3 years ago. I had to get a couple lessons to appreciate how bad my setup was. My stroke was also trash. I had a ton of arc and furthermore I was actively opening & closing the face during the stroke like a total noob. 

 

It's not just basic skills. You really do have to improve your setup and stroke. The best thing I can recommend for your stroke is actually one of these mirrors (shown below). They're about $60 but well worth the price. These show the (small!) amount of arc a good stroke has. It's not much. And you want to keep the face square to the arc the whole way. Most players don't even understand that. 

 

Also, find what "class" of putter you need to use. I pounded my head against the table trying to make Anser/Newport style putters work for a long time only to realize that I need to have a face-balanced putter of some sort. That stuff really matters. I also like the heavier feel of a mallet because it smooths out my stroke. But the toe-hang versus face-balanced thing is really a matter of life and death for me. So don't ignore that stuff. I recommend trying all the extremes and really determining what does and doesn't work for you. 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by MelloYello

[RoyalMustang]

Thanks-lots to think about. I bought one of those eye-line gadgets and practiced with it on my WellPutt this afternoon for a bit: first thing I noticed is that my stroke is WAY too long and that my torso isn't moving with hands. I shortened the stroke by keeping my hands more connected to the torso and things felt a lot more effortless. At least, according to the Eye-line, I was lined up correctly. 

[dlam]

Sometimes there too much technical information   When I get to overload I just look at the hole and putt with out looking back at the ball.  Don’t care about where the line on the ball is. Don’t care about the how the putter lines up Don’t care where eye are on relation to the ball   Forces me to aim target at the cup or some spot on the green in-line with the cup

Edited May 16, 2023 by dlam

[MelloYello]

18 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

Thanks-lots to think about. I bought one of those eye-line gadgets and practiced with it on my WellPutt this afternoon for a bit: first thing I noticed is that my stroke is WAY too long and that my torso isn't moving with hands. I shortened the stroke by keeping my hands more connected to the torso and things felt a lot more effortless. At least, according to the Eye-line, I was lined up correctly. 

 

Getting real feedback from your practice is the difference. These days, I take the same approach (with the same feels) to putting every single time out. I remember back in the day though, putting was a new adventure every single day. 

 

People over-react to the difficulty of putting because they assume it's easy. Maybe it is? But either way, you can still screw it up royally by doing things incorrectly. Figuring out your setup, simplifying your stroke and working on simple drills with a mirror & gate (even just a few minutes each day) go a LONG way. 

[Shilgy]

On 5/15/2023 at 7:38 PM, iacas said:

 

Arccos users. Not a lot of Tour pros are out there hitting 5 GIR.

Not a lot of Arccos users are reporting reliably then.  Based on that chart, if I read it correctly, ams hitting 8 greens average 27.9 putts.

Let’s call it 28…if thy make a couple birdies in those 8 holes they’ve used 14 putts and they use just 14 putts on the 10 holes they’ve missed the green.  Is this a low handicap Arccos user chart? Maybe even scratch or plus? Most guys I know if they hit 8 greens they’re not shooting 74. 
 

Yes, there could be a hole or two where they take more than one over regulation to get to a hole but it appears that chart is for quite low handicap players.

 

Based on those averages the up and down rate must be about 80%…better than pro level.  The chart shows average putts only going up 1.2 going from 5 greens hit to 9 greens hit.

 

Either I’m very surprised….or I’m missing some information…..or??

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Either I’m very surprised….or I’m missing some information…..or??

I think you’re more likely surprised.

[Nard_S]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Not a lot of Arccos users are reporting reliably then.  Based on that chart, if I read it correctly, ams hitting 8 greens average 27.9 putts.

Agree.

[baudi]

On 5/12/2023 at 8:43 PM, RoyalMustang said:

What did you do to go from being a non-natural putter to pretty decent?

 

All the methods and techniques learned and ingrained never really gave that extra on the greens.

I got a reasonable sound stroke; I can hole out now and then from mid range and long range; usually I don't make too many stupid misstakes but the added value of practice, different putting styles, putters etc. hardly turned into the ultimate goal of 'shaving strokes off my game' or become a clutch putter over time. Good greens bad greens; they're all the same to me.  If time and money are taken into account and converted into a putting stat, the number of strokes gained are probably less than 0.0000000002 over a period of 40 years.  

[Stinger Sanchez]

I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet.

 

But, you definitely should read this short book called "Putting Out of Your Mind" by Dr. Bob Rotella. It talks about the mental side and the approach to putting, and how it needs to be intuitive. You cannot overanalyze it. It helped me understand what I need to do when I'm on the green. It also helped me frame my practices. It will change your thinking about putting. 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Stinger Sanchez said:

how it needs to be intuitive. You cannot overanalyze it.

 

Bryson analyzed the heck out of putting. Stroke length, stimp, % slopes… moisture/time of day… Was 20th the last year he has SG:P stats.

 

No one-size-fits-all for this kind of stuff. Is AimPoint "intuitive"? Probably not. But it sure has helped a ton of people.

[Stinger Sanchez]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

 

Bryson analyzed the heck out of putting. Stroke length, stimp, % slopes… moisture/time of day… Was 20th the last year he has SG:P stats.

 

No one-size-fits-all for this kind of stuff. Is AimPoint "intuitive"? Probably not. But it sure has helped a ton of people.

 

You named the one guy who analyzes the heckout of everything. One out of 200 Tour pros, lol.

 

I am just stating what the book says. Never made a statement about "one-size-fits-all" for putting, so not sure where you got that from. If you haven't read any of Dr. Bob Rotella's books, you should give it a try though. Maybe, you will understand my suggestion a little more. It talks about the mental aspect of putting, like how putting is the only thing in sports where you "gain control by losing control". There are a dozen of concepts in there, backed by real examples he worked with past Tour pros on. It addresses the mental aspect of putting. 

 

On Aimpoint, I'd argue there are intuitive elements, such as judging % of slope with your feet in a matter of a couple of seconds, and basing your line on that. I guess you'd argue differently. Maybe, it's highly analytical method to you, with zero intuition. 

[iacas]

Just now, Stinger Sanchez said:

You named the one guy who analyzes the heckout of everything. One out of 200 Tour pros, lol.

 

Then I mentioned AimPoint.

 

The fact is that green reading and putting are not intuitive for a lot of people, so just telling them "be intuitive" doesn't do much for them.

 

Just saw a putting instructor last night on Twitter talking about how golfers should pace off every putt. That's not "intuitive."

 

Just now, Stinger Sanchez said:

I am just stating what the book says.

 

I know.

 

Just now, Stinger Sanchez said:

If you haven't read any of Dr. Bob Rotella's books, you should give it a try though.

 

I've read them all (or nearly all of them). He likes to name-drop, and every book can be summarized in a few sentences. He's pretty one-size-fits-all himself… and doesn't account for the different personality types very much.

 

Just now, Stinger Sanchez said:

It talks about the mental aspect of putting, like how putting is the only thing in sports where you "gain control by losing control".

 

I've heard that said about pitching. Bowling. All sorts of things.

 

Just now, Stinger Sanchez said:

On Aimpoint, I'd argue there are intuitive elements, such as judging % of slope with your feet in a matter of a couple of seconds, and basing your line on that. I guess you'd argue differently. Maybe, it's highly analytical method to you, with zero intuition. 

 

Now we're getting into the definition of "intuitive." I don't think I'd describe much of AimPoint Express as "intuitive" but if you do… then we may not be as far apart as it seemed, but… I'm just pushing back on what feels like bad advice.

 

But… I've never really been a Rotella fan. Some good bits, a lot of fluff, and a lot of stuff that is kinda bogus for large groups of people.

[Stinger Sanchez]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Then I mentioned AimPoint.

 

The fact is that green reading and putting are not intuitive for a lot of people, so just telling them "be intuitive" doesn't do much for them.

 

Just saw a putting instructor last night on Twitter talking about how golfers should pace off every putt. That's not "intuitive."

 

 

I know.

 

 

I've read them all (or nearly all of them). He likes to name-drop, and every book can be summarized in a few sentences. He's pretty one-size-fits-all himself… and doesn't account for the different personality types very much.

 

 

I've heard that said about pitching. Bowling. All sorts of things.

 

 

Now we're getting into the definition of "intuitive." I don't think I'd describe much of AimPoint Express as "intuitive" but if you do… then we may not be as far apart as it seemed, but… I'm just pushing back on what feels like bad advice.

 

But… I've never really been a Rotella fan. Some good bits, a lot of fluff, and a lot of stuff that is kinda bogus for large groups of people.

Alright man. Apologies for suggesting a book that worked for me? I think whether advice is good or bad is subjective though. Calling someone's advice bad on a thread kind of defeats the purpose of being on a forum, don't you think? I only claimed that it worked for me tremendously. I did not guarantee it would work for anyone or everyone.

 

I agree with the name-dropping part. Don't think it's got that much fluff. It's quite a short book. I guess Rotella's putting book is just trying to get people to "relax" when they putt, especially for important putts. Too many thoughts or stress will reduce the chances of sinking any given putt. He doesn't say you shouldn't be analytical or hone your stroke via meticulous practice. 

 

It's a cheap and short book that took me 2 or 3 sitting to read through. Not that much opportunity cost if it doesn't work out, especially since OP started his post with "I can't putt". Another takeaway from the book is that confidence is absolutely key for golf in general, but even more so for putting.

[Pepperturbo]

I seldom 3 putt, and lag putting is somewhat easy for me.  But I was not born with putting skills, didn't take up the game till I was 40yrs old. 

 

Putting, especially lag putting, is IMO is ALL about feel and reading the line, like reading billiard shots and feel of throwing knives, which I am good at; been doing both since I was a kid way before golf.  Feel and gauging distances naturally fits with my hand eye coordination.  Learning any of the aforementioned is mechanically achievable, all it takes is time, patience and lots of practice, only you'll likely never develop feel.  And you can't suddenly be intuitive, regardless of what anyone says.

 

I agree with @sliderwrx, get a putter fitting.  Up to 2012, I was using a mallet straight shafted style of putter.  I stumbled upon Callaways putter fitting website.  Not sure if it exists today, but then I decided to give it a try.  It told me I needed a plumbers neck, medium toe flow, full offset putter, so bought my heavier head and swing weighted Scotty Cameron California Monterey, still using it today.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Stinger Sanchez said:

Alright man. Apologies for suggesting a book that worked for me?

 

Buddy, it's a conversation. You don't have to apologize, because I'm just sharing my own thoughts on "putting should be intuitive" and, by extension, on Bob Rotella.

 

5 hours ago, Stinger Sanchez said:

Calling someone's advice bad on a thread kind of defeats the purpose of being on a forum, don't you think?

 

No. It's a discussion. Differing opinions are almost the basis for conversation/discussion.

[RoyalMustang]

I suppose I struggle with a consistent shoulder movement; when I execute that centered shoulder back and forth, it goes well. I played 9 yesterday, drained a 25 footer and had 2 great tap-in lags from 50 feet. When I get close to the hole, I get tight (probably because I struggle with that motion over a shorter stroke distance). I missed two 3-footers yesterday.

gotta practice more, and also feel comfortable moving my shoulders without messing with the rest of my body. Putting is really costing me some strokes; when your 5-7 foot make rate is under 20% over a 2-day tournament (2/13 putts total last weekend) and you still shoot 161, you've got work to do.   

 

I just signed up for a putter fitting in 2 weeks from a well-regarded fitter. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by RoyalMustang