Trying to turn my hips has ruined my golf

[Chunkitgood]

Here’s how I see it.  The body moves in three planes: the frontal, the sagittal, and the transverse.  Explained here:

 

https://www.fitnessmentors.com/nasms-cpt-study-guide-chapter-5-human-movement-science/

 

The hips as they are colloquially referred to designate the area between the waist or abdomen and the thighs rotate in the transverse plane in the golf swing via (possibly among other things) extension and flexion of the legs as surely as the steering wheel of your car turns with the flexion and extension of your arms.

 

The hips do not describe a nice neat circle as they turn because at pretty much the same time the body is moving in the other two planes.  The torso rotates (not translates, which would mean a uniform motion of the entire torso in the same direction the same distance) in the frontal plane around a horizontal axis near the top of the torso with the effect that the hips move first to the right side then to the left side in a motion similar to that of a pendulum.  This rotation of the upper torso around a horizontal axis as the head remains fairly still also necessarily involves tilting of the shoulders and hips. The magnitude of this motion is obscured by the fact that the hips are rotating at pretty much the same time.

 

I say pretty much at the same time but in all cases the motion in the frontal plane precedes slightly the motion in the transverse plane, aka shift, then turn.

 

 The downswing is conceptually the reverse of the backswing, such that by impact there is a good deal of hip thrust and right side flexion/shoulder tilt (rotation in the frontal plane) as well as hip turn in the transverse plane. 
 

Rotating the torso in both the transverse plane and the frontal plane as described seems to be a challenge to many people.  Understanding may help.

 

It must be remembered that the frontal plane remains the frontal plane even when your torso is facing to the side, as at the top of the swing, when your shoulder have a lot of “left side tilt” in the frontal plane which is actually tilt towards the ball.

 

Or so it seems to me.

 

I think would be fruitful for the folks who study golf for a living to describe the swing in terms of motion in the three planes of motion, but I haven’t seen them do it so I did it myself.  I could be wrong, of course.  Feel free to disregard, disparage, and dismiss.  Doesn’t hurt my feelings.

 

Good luck to all.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

You tell me

 

I have Rory's swing in 3D (driver and iron). I asked you when you thought Rory's tailbone went toward the target.

[virtuoso]

In transition, hip rotation, yes…..abduction, no. I’m not seeing it work that way.

[tthomasgolfer605]

You guys must be a blast to chat with at parties.

[JayMas]

I think, generally speaking, an overt focus on hip movement hurts players...that said in reality, it's less about the focus and more about people just move their hips incorrectly. Nothing wrong with feeling it, focusing on it if you move them right. But have to validate that on video or with a coach.

[golfarb1]

12 hours ago, virtuoso said:

In transition, hip rotation, yes…..abduction, no. I’m not seeing it work that way.

How do you think the pelvis moves laterally .?

What causes the knee to move laterally ?

 

The below screenshot that I previously posted clearly shows left hip aBduction with the left thigh and foot moving away from the midline of the body . As I stated this was was an example of OPEN chain hip aBduction  , which allows the foot to move freely . 
CLOSED  chain hip aBduction , which happens with the foot relatively fixed will be reflected at the hip joint and allows the knee and hip to move laterally . 
Try this swing simple demonstration . Stand up in normal posture and FREEZE your lead knee. Now try to move your pelvis LATERALLY  towards the target . Although there will be a small amount of play  within the joint which allows for a very small amount of movement  ,you will not be able to move your pelvis much laterally.  .Because the distal end of the femur is one of the bones which form the knee joint , movements of the head of the femur within the hip socket will cause similar movements at the  knee. By freezing your knee you will also restrict movement of the femur within the hip   socket . 

 

[golfarb1]

3 hours ago, JayMas said:

I think, generally speaking, an overt focus on hip movement hurts players...that said in reality, it's less about the focus and more about people just move their hips incorrectly. Nothing wrong with feeling it, focusing on it if you move them right. But have to validate that on video or with a coach.

Hip and pelvis movement are vital in the golf swing . You are correct in both stating that many people move their hips incorrectly and the need to validate the correct movement with a coach. 
My problem and the reason why I discuss this in terms of anatomy /kinesiology is that most coaches do not have even a basic background in these subjects and make suggestions that both incorrectly describe anatomical movements and make suggestions that either contradict basic anatomy or do not take advantage of how our bodies move . 
 

Let me give you one example - the current discussion of hip movement 

Many were surprised when Mike Malaska suggested a different way to move the pelvis / hips. 

 

This  is  clearly discussed in a video on YouTube with Eric Cogorno  . 

”Golf: This one hip move could fix your entire swing |Mike Malaska shows me this INCREDIBLE move!”

 

Those golfers who understand  the basic anatomy/kinesiology of the pelvis and hip 

would immediately understand that so called “ rotation”  of the lower body going down  is not about trying to turn the pelvis / hips , but about straightening the lead leg so that the pelvis could” rotate” .  Mr. Malaska , to his credit, was one of the few coaches who grasped this concept instead of suggesting that golfers  rotate / turn the lower body .

Now , no expects golf coaches to have PHDs in anatomy or even to have taken a college level anatomy course, but students should expect golf coaches to understand the basic anatomy/ kinesiology of the golf swing . 
 

Edited July 9, 2023 by golfarb1

[RoyalTroon]

22 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

The enclosed sketch  may be the worst concept that I have ever seen .

 

Obviously others may hold an opposite view. 

 

First off it's a practice routine.  Placing both hands on the club and having a wider foothold will produce residual rotation movement,  but not very much, during what has been described for decades as a free ride down during the weight transfer.  More importantly, Harmon Sr. probably knew saving active pivot turn for post impact work was the key for a later strike and his practice routine speaks to that, but possibly not directly enough for you.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[naval2006]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:45 AM, Zitlow said:

In the backswing as the right leg extends and the weight is shifted the right hip rocks up. The shoulder rotation turns the hips and winds up the right thigh. The right side action unweights the left side lower body pulling the left heel up. 

 

 

 

Your backswing is too long, club gets past parallel and across, left heel off the ground and hips have turned way too much. You should find a good coach in your area. 

[vernon]

Malaska's explanation made by far the most sense to me.

 

Helped me really understand how to eliminate early extension.

[virtuoso]

3 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

How do you think the pelvis moves laterally .?

What causes the knee to move laterally ?

 

The below screenshot that I previously posted clearly shows left hip aBduction with the left thigh and foot moving away from the midline of the body . As I stated this was was an example of OPEN chain hip aBduction  , which allows the foot to move freely . 
CLOSED  chain hip aBduction , which happens with the foot relatively fixed will be reflected at the hip joint and allows the knee and hip to move laterally . 
Try this swing simple demonstration . Stand up in normal posture and FREEZE your lead knee. Now try to move your pelvis LATERALLY  towards the target . Although there will be a small amount of play  within the joint which allows for a very small amount of movement  ,you will not be able to move your pelvis much laterally.  .Because the distal end of the femur is one of the bones which form the knee joint , movements of the head of the femur within the hip socket will cause similar movements at the  knee. By freezing your knee you will also restrict movement of the femur within the hip   socket . 

 

I haven’t studied any of this stuff but, open chain is taking the leg and lifting it to the left. Closed chain means left foot is on the ground. Foot tries to push the ground to the left. Ground won’t move, so leg pushes pelvis to the right….away from the target.

[golfarb1]

18 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

Here’s how I see it.  The body moves in three planes: the frontal, the sagittal, and the transverse.  Explained here:

 

https://www.fitnessmentors.com/nasms-cpt-study-guide-chapter-5-human-movement-science/

 

The hips as they are colloquially referred to designate the area between the waist or abdomen and the thighs rotate in the transverse plane in the golf swing via (possibly among other things) extension and flexion of the legs as surely as the steering wheel of your car turns with the flexion and extension of your arms.

 

The hips do not describe a nice neat circle as they turn because at pretty much the same time the body is moving in the other two planes.  The torso rotates (not translates, which would mean a uniform motion of the entire torso in the same direction the same distance) in the frontal plane around a horizontal axis near the top of the torso with the effect that the hips move first to the right side then to the left side in a motion similar to that of a pendulum.  This rotation of the upper torso around a horizontal axis as the head remains fairly still also necessarily involves tilting of the shoulders and hips. The magnitude of this motion is obscured by the fact that the hips are rotating at pretty much the same time.

 

I say pretty much at the same time but in all cases the motion in the frontal plane precedes slightly the motion in the transverse plane, aka shift, then turn.

 

 The downswing is conceptually the reverse of the backswing, such that by impact there is a good deal of hip thrust and right side flexion/shoulder tilt (rotation in the frontal plane) as well as hip turn in the transverse plane. 
 

Rotating the torso in both the transverse plane and the frontal plane as described seems to be a challenge to many people.  Understanding may help.

 

It must be remembered that the frontal plane remains the frontal plane even when your torso is facing to the side, as at the top of the swing, when your shoulder have a lot of “left side tilt” in the frontal plane which is actually tilt towards the ball.

 

Or so it seems to me.

 

I think would be fruitful for the folks who study golf for a living to describe the swing in terms of motion in the three planes of motion, but I haven’t seen them do it so I did it myself.  I could be wrong, of course.  Feel free to disregard, disparage, and dismiss.  Doesn’t hurt my feelings.

 

Good luck to all.

You bring up a number of points , some of which I think are valid and some I think are incorrect  .

Therefore I will bring up only  a few points at a time to facilitate further discussion

 

When was the last time that anyone ( except me ) has ever discussed the three planes of motion . Coaches do not have to be rocket scientists to understand this concept . Some even make fun of even using the word femur . What do you think the reaction would be if a coach ever used any of the three planes of motion in describing the golf swing?

When you refer to the hips colloquially as the area between  between the waist and the thighs , you are making a similar mistake as most golf pros . Hips refer specifically to the two hip joints located on either side of the pelvis . Each hip joint consist of a hip socket  or depression in which the head of the femur( or thigh)  is tightly encapsulated . Movements of the hip mean ONLY the movements of the   femur within each respective hip joint , not to movements of the pelvis 

The pelvis is an oddly shaped bony structure that is divided into two hemispheres . Its shape is why movements are not circular . Because of its basic purpose of stability and weight bearing , it is supported by some of the strongest ligaments in the body , making it capable of only limited motion on its OWN . Most of the movement of the pelvis  is dependent on the position of the femur within each socket . 

 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

When you refer to the hips colloquially as the area between  between the waist and the thighs , you are making a similar mistake as most golf pros . Hips refer specifically to the two hip joints located on either side of the pelvis

 

Again, that's not how people use the word.

 

Look, I get it. The pelvis is not the same thing as the hips. But there's a difference between how words are used in common discussion and what their true definition is.

 

The point of communication is to be understood, and when a golfer or, gasp!, a golf pro/instructor says the words "hip turn" or "hip slants" or whatever… people generally know what they're saying even if it's not exactly correct.

 

You still haven't answered my question:

 

20 hours ago, iacas said:

When do you think, for example, Rory's tailbone begins moving "toward the target"?

 

So, I've put it there for you again. Remember, you said:

 

On 7/8/2023 at 3:44 PM, golfarb1 said:

However, some have misinterpreted this as moving toward the tailbone towards the target much earlier in the backswing . 

 

Hence my question: when does the tailbone begin moving toward the target?

[golfarb1]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

Again, that's not how people use the word.

 

Look, I get it. The pelvis is not the same thing as the hips. But there's a difference between how words are used in common discussion and what their true definition is.

 

The point of communication is to be understood, and when a golfer or, gasp!, a golf pro/instructor says the words "hip turn" or "hip slants" or whatever… people generally know what they're saying even if it's not exactly correct.

 

You still haven't answered my question:

 

 

So, I've put it there for you again. Remember, you said:

 

 

Hence my question: when does the tailbone begin moving toward the target?

There is no and and I emphasize no

discipline or profession which uses pertinent words with incorrect meanings . 
Why do you think posters are so confused on the “ hip turn” 

To analyze Rory’s recentering backswing move , I used a similar , simple methodology suggested  by Athletic Motion Golf to analyze Xander’s recentering move.

DRAW LINES ALONG the OUTSIDE of his LEGS 

I did this with Rory and would guess that his recentering move starts when his lead arm is a about 20 degrees above P3

You might have force plate numbers that indicate a shift much earlier  closer to
P2 , but attempting to move laterally towards the target very early has  lead to massive misinterpretations like suggestions shown in the below video

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

There is no and and I emphasize no

discipline or profession which uses pertinent words with incorrect meanings.

 

And yet…

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hip+turn+golf+swing

https://www.google.com/search?q=hip+turn+golf

 

That's all I'm saying. We can agree on the proper anatomical terms for things, but few people talk about "pelvis turn" (hip turn) or "torso turn" or "ribcage turn" (shoulder turn). We all generally know what someone means when they say "hip turn" or "you're turning your hips too much" or "you sway instead of turning" or whatever…

 

18 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

Why do you think posters are so confused on the “ hip turn”

 

I don't think they are. They may not know how to do it, but I think most understand what others are saying when someone says "hip turn."

 

18 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

DRAW LINES ALONG the OUTSIDE of his LEGS 

 

Your tailbone is not on the outside of your legs.

 

18 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

I did this with Rory and would guess that his recentering move starts when his lead arm is a about 20 degrees above P3

You might have force plate numbers that indicate a shift much earlier  closer to
P2 , but attempting to move laterally towards the target very early has  lead to massive misinterpretations like suggestions shown in the below video

 

I didn't ask you about his re-centering move. I asked you about when his tailbone moves toward the target.

 

So, you've still not answered the question, and what's worse, in a post where you talk about how we should use the proper terminology, you ignored the terminology you used to answer an entirely different question than the one asked of you.

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by iacas

[golfarb1]

25 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

And yet…

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hip+turn+golf+swing

https://www.google.com/search?q=hip+turn+golf

 

That's all I'm saying. We can agree on the proper anatomical terms for things, but few people talk about "pelvis turn" (hip turn) or "torso turn" or "ribcage turn" (shoulder turn). We all generally know what someone means when they say "hip turn" or "you're turning your hips too much" or "you sway instead of turning" or whatever…

 

 

I don't think they are. They may not know how to do it, but I think most understand what others are saying when someone says "hip turn."

 

 

Your tailbone is not on the outside of your legs.

 

 

I didn't ask you about his re-centering move. I asked you about when his tailbone moves toward the target.

 

So, you've still not answered the question, and what's worse, in a post where you talk about how we should use the proper terminology, you ignored the terminology you used to answer an entirely different question than the one asked of you.

 

Recentering is moving the sacrum /tailbone towards the target .

And to tell the truth I have never heard the word hip slant used previously , either in golf swing analysis or in anatomy . Are you referring to posterior or anterior pelvic tilt ?

I just googled “ hip slant “ The only hits were related to medical conditions of the pelvis 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by golfarb1

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

And to tell the truth I have never heard the word hip slant used previously , either in golf swing analysis or in anatomy . Are you referring to posterior or anterior pelvic tilt?

 

I'm just giving an example of the ways golfers will use the word "hips" when they probably mean "pelvis" or something else. And that it's fine.

 

And maybe you've seen "hip tilt" or something.

 

15 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

Recentering is moving the sacrum /tailbone towards the target.

 

So, are you saying that Rory's sacrum/tailbone doesn't move toward the target until his left arm is about 20° above horizontal/P3?

 

And how does drawing lines up the outside of his legs show what direction his tailbone is moving? Doesn't that show (as well as we can in 2D) where his legs or maybe his entire "midsection" (pelvis??) is moving?

Edited July 10, 2023 by iacas

[golfarb1]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I'm just giving an example of the ways golfers will use the word "hips" when they probably mean "pelvis" or something else. And that it's fine.

 

And maybe you've seen "hip tilt" or something.

 

 

So, are you saying that Rory's sacrum/tailbone doesn't move toward the target until his left arm is about 20° above horizontal/P3?

 

And how does drawing lines up the outside of his legs show what direction his tailbone is moving? Doesn't that show (as well as we can in 2D) where his legs or maybe his entire "midsection" (pelvis??) is moving?

I admit that the word  “ recentering “ is very ambiguous term and is not a word used in anatomy /kinesiology , so I am sorry to have used it.
  Because the coccyx ( tailbone ) is fused to the pelvis any  lateral movements of the pelvis will also cause the tailbone to move laterally. 

[golfarb1]

I have never seen the term hip tilt . I have seen the term pelvic tilt used in discussing 

anterior pelvic tilt  in the golf setup or too much lordosis resulting in the the “s” posture .

I think that you are misinterpreting my comments about you. I am just trying to convince you  and others to use golf terms that are consistent with their anatomical / kinesiological meanings . I will glad to help you achieve that goal .

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

I admit that the word  “ recentering “ is very ambiguous term and is not a word used in anatomy /kinesiology , so I am sorry to have used it.

 

No need. It's a term many golfers understand. Again, the point of communication is to understand what the other person is saying.

 

And if you're going to go with "20° above P3" then okay. But that's not when the tailbone begins moving "toward the target" in Rory's swing. It occurs MUCH earlier, whether you define it by when it begins moving in that direction or when it passes the starting point.

 

Depending on what you mean by "toward," Rory's tailbone "moves toward the target" either well before P2 or quite a bit earlier than even P3.

 

 

The tailbone is between the "butt cheeks" in the video there.

• Rory begins his backswing with an initial shift to the right. The whole pelvis, his legs, his torso… it all moves an inch or two.
• At about 0:14, Rory begins rotating around roughly the middle of his pelvis. This is the first point at which his tailbone, being "behind" the center of his pelvis and behind the "axis" around which he's turning his pelvis ("hips" 😄), begins moving "toward the target."
• At about 0:29, you can see that Rory's tailbone is about to be more forward of its initial starting position. I switch over to the face-on view to show that this occurs before P3.

So… Rory's tailbone begins moving toward the target pretty early during the backswing.

 

3 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

I think that you are misinterpreting my comments about you. I am just trying to convince you  and others to use golf terms that are consistent with their anatomical / kinesiological meanings . I will glad to help you achieve that goal .

 

I'm not misinterpreting you. I just don't agree with you, and I don't need your help. I know the anatomical terms… I choose not to use them because it's counter-productive and wastes time.

 

Again, the point of communication is to be understood, and often time is important. If I tell a golfer to "turn your hips" or "your hips will be tilted like this" they understand what I mean, and I don't have to use anatomical/kinesiological terms.

[golf-RN]

Over the last year and a half, I have been teaching my wife to play golf. Now granted I am not a teacher or anything but I have played for 30 years and I have a lot of experience to draw from, both good and bad. That being said, as her swing began developing she got to the issues with hip turn. She was doing like what almost all amateurs do at some point, as she took the club back in the backswing, she was "turning" her whole pelvis around, right hip behind and around and the left around the front and around as if her left and right side were chasing each other around a tree. Basically circular. I told her the hips do not move like that. She said that is what she thought she was supposed to do when she heard "turn your hips". When I showed her the correct movement, she said "they need to name it (turn your hips) something else because this not what I think of when I hear that".

 

I said all of that to say this, "turn your hips" is probably one of the worst and incorrect terms used in golf. As a long time player, I know what you mean when you say turn your hips, but there is a vast majority of players (especially new to the game players) that take that phrase literally just as it says which leads to an incorrect movement and consequently a lot of other bad stuff. As an RN, I can appreciate the proper anatomical terms because I understand how the anatomy works and it makes complete sense to me, but most will not understand this. At the same time, most interpret the phrase "turn your hips" much like my wife did. IMHO, there is a translation issue with the phrase and the actual movement, and one cannot just automatically assume that someone knows what they mean by the phrase when it is obvious that most do not. I think we just need to come up with a better phrase that more accurately describes the movement. 

[golfarb1]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

 

No need. It's a term many golfers understand. Again, the point of communication is to understand what the other person is saying.

 

And if you're going to go with "20° above P3" then okay. But that's not when the tailbone begins moving "toward the target" in Rory's swing. It occurs MUCH earlier, whether you define it by when it begins moving in that direction or when it passes the starting point.

 

Depending on what you mean by "toward," Rory's tailbone "moves toward the target" either well before P2 or quite a bit earlier than even P3.

 

 

The tailbone is between the "butt cheeks" in the video there.

• Rory begins his backswing with an initial shift to the right. The whole pelvis, his legs, his torso… it all moves an inch or two.
• At about 0:14, Rory begins rotating around roughly the middle of his pelvis. This is the first point at which his tailbone, being "behind" the center of his pelvis and behind the "axis" around which he's turning his pelvis ("hips" 😄), begins moving "toward the target."
• At about 0:29, you can see that Rory's tailbone is about to be more forward of its initial starting position. I switch over to the face-on view to show that this occurs before P3.

So… Rory's tailbone begins moving toward the target pretty early during the backswing.

 

 

I'm not misinterpreting you. I just don't agree with you, and I don't need your help. I know the anatomical terms… I choose not to use them because it's counter-productive and wastes time.

 

Again, the point of communication is to be understood, and often time is important. If I tell a golfer to "turn your hips" or "your hips will be tilted like this" they understand what I mean, and I don't have to use anatomical/kinesiological terms.

You just made my point. 
I am well of videos showing such early movement .But such videos are worse than useless ; such videos  have led to some pros making horrendous suggestions similar to the  video that I posted  last evening . 
Your comments amaze me. As I stated previously , no other profession or discipline chooses to use wrong terms . The fact that you choose to do so is the height of ignorance.

AI is coming and faster than you think.

AI will never make mistakes about anatomy / kinesiology .

AI is coming to replace you . Bonne chance 

[golfarb1]

2 hours ago, golf-RN said:

Over the last year and a half, I have been teaching my wife to play golf. Now granted I am not a teacher or anything but I have played for 30 years and I have a lot of experience to draw from, both good and bad. That being said, as her swing began developing she got to the issues with hip turn. She was doing like what almost all amateurs do at some point, as she took the club back in the backswing, she was "turning" her whole pelvis around, right hip behind and around and the left around the front and around as if her left and right side were chasing each other around a tree. Basically circular. I told her the hips do not move like that. She said that is what she thought she was supposed to do when she heard "turn your hips". When I showed her the correct movement, she said "they need to name it (turn your hips) something else because this not what I think of when I hear that".

 

I said all of that to say this, "turn your hips" is probably one of the worst and incorrect terms used in golf. As a long time player, I know what you mean when you say turn your hips, but there is a vast majority of players (especially new to the game players) that take that phrase literally just as it says which leads to an incorrect movement and consequently a lot of other bad stuff. As an RN, I can appreciate the proper anatomical terms because I understand how the anatomy works and it makes complete sense to me, but most will not understand this. At the same time, most interpret the phrase "turn your hips" much like my wife did. IMHO, there is a translation issue with the phrase and the actual movement, and one cannot just automatically assume that someone knows what they mean by the phrase when it is obvious that most do not. I think we just need to come up with a better phrase that more accurately describes the movement. 

It is not just the correct terms ;it is understanding  how our bodies actually move. The Malaska video in my previous post may be very useful in helping your wife understand the way the pelvis / hips  should move in the downswing . 

[virtuoso]

12 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

AI is coming and faster than you think.

AI will never make mistakes about anatomy / kinesiology .

AI is coming to replace you . Bonne chance 

That’s awesome! Iacas sent back from the future to save hackers from Skynet Golf. “Follow me if you want to quit slicing the ball!”

[dfeldss]

1 hour ago, golfarb1 said:

 

AI is coming and faster than you think.

AI will never make mistakes about anatomy / kinesiology .

AI is coming to replace you . Bonne chance 

 

AI is going to replace golf teachers because it knows what a pelvis and a femur is? 

 

Seen a lot of people saying AI is coming for our jobs, but that's a new one

Edited July 10, 2023 by dfeldss

[golf-RN]

7 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

It is not just the correct terms ;it is understanding  how our bodies actually move. The Malaska video in my previous post may be very useful in helping your wife understand the way the pelvis / hips  should move in the downswing . 

Yeah I watched that video a little while back. After I told and showed her of how they are supposed to move, she got it rather quickly. My point was the common terminology used to describe the proper movement does not match the real movement needed of which she found very confusing. 

[Gsea]

7 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

When I showed her the correct movement, she said "they need to name it (turn your hips) something else because this not what I think of when I hear that".

so what is the correct movement

[iacas]

12 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

You just made my point.

 

It's funny that you think so. What I did was show that Rory's tailbone begins moving toward the target significantly earlier than you stated it does. And you illustrated when his tailbone begins moving toward the target… by drawing lines outside of his legs and talking about re-centering.

 

All while lecturing others on using the "correct" terminology? Okay…

 

12 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

I am well of videos showing such early movement. But such videos are worse than useless ; such videos  have led to some pros making horrendous suggestions similar to the  video that I posted  last evening.

 

The only one I've seen making "horrendous suggestions" are when you said Rory's tailbone begins moving toward the target about 20° above P3. That video doesn't do anything except show what Rory actually does.

 

12 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

Your comments amaze me. As I stated previously , no other profession or discipline chooses to use wrong terms . The fact that you choose to do so is the height of ignorance.

 

They're not the wrong terms if you and the person with whom you're communicating know what you're talking about. I know what a femur is. I know what a pelvis is. The point of communication is to be understood.

 

And at least I know when Rory's tailbone begins moving toward the target. 😉

 

13 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

AI is coming and faster than you think.

AI will never make mistakes about anatomy / kinesiology .

AI is coming to replace you . Bonne chance 

 

I wrote a basic AI app in college (as part of my computer science degree) and was offered a job in AI when I graduated. One of my other degrees is in French, so I'll take my chances… (My third degree is in medicinal chemistry, in case you're wondering.) But @dfeldss said it well:

 

12 hours ago, dfeldss said:

AI is going to replace golf teachers because it knows what a pelvis and a femur is? 

 

I know what a femur is. I know what the hip joint is. I took a good amount of anatomy and biology classes throughout high school and college.

 

At no point in a lesson is that an issue - the point of a lesson is to help the golfer get better, and that comes down to communication. If they understand what I'm asking them to do, and why… it doesn't matter if I call some part of their body their "pelvis" or their "right pocket" or their "shorts seam" or their "left butt cheek" or their "trochanteric fossa."

[johnrobison]

The irony is hilarious. The handful of poseurs here who insist on precise anatomical terminology and knowledge, while simultaneously idolizing historical players and instructors who wouldn't have had any idea about any of it 🤣

[me05501]

On 5/14/2023 at 2:09 PM, JDIL said:

 

 

 

 

 

It's funny how many people get upset by joggers while overlooking that era when Tiger tried to make giant pleated pants happen. 🙂