New grip pressure study

[rondo01]

Cordie with Golf Science Lab just sent this along and I thought some here would find it interesting. So far it seems that only the abstract is available. I’ll be curious to see the full findings! Also, if you’re not subscribed to his newsletter, I recommend it. 
 

Introduction
Grip Pressure Application variances between Low and High Handicappers
Liam Mucklow, Carson Hau, Jack Healey The Golf Lab, PGA of Canada Email: [email protected]

 Technology advancements over the years have allowed both researchers and golf coaches to characterize various aspects of the golf stroke, club delivery, and ball flight. The accurate characterizations of these elements have allowed golf instruction and club fitting to advance at a very rapid pace when compared to the technical and equipment analysis in other sports. One of the biggest gaps in information accessible to golf instructions relates to the connection between the golfer and club. The ability to characterize the how, where, and when the golfer applies force to the club has the opportunity to significantly advance the golf instruction world. A relevant example of this would be the advancement in pitch design in baseball. By applying the knowledge gained from Launch Monitors to varying grip types for the baseball pitchers have been able to strategically alter the magnitude and direction of applied forces to create a new arsenal of pitch types. Here is an article from Driveline as a reference: https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/2017/11/pitch-grips-changing-fastball-spin-rate/

 

Methods
In this exploratory study of Low vs High handicaps we used Gears full body motion capture for body movements, Foresight GCQuad Camera based tracking system for club delivery and ball flight, and a prototype SensorEdge instrumented grip to quantify lead and trail hand pressure application in a total of 20 golfers. There were ten golfers with Handicaps below 10, and 10 golfers with Handicaps above 15. All golfers went through a standard intake process where they signed off on their anonymous data being part of the study, had their index from Golf Canada recorded at the time, and grip strength tested using a dynamometer. From there each golfer would proceed to take 10 shots with a 3 wood where all devices would simultaneously capture their respective data sets. A 3 wood was used as it is the lowest lofted and longest shafted club to be used primarily off the ground, our reasoning is that this would create a greater performance gap between the low and high handicappers therefore providing a more meaningful data set.

 

Results and Discussion
The results of this study yielded two main conclusions:
• High handicap players exhibited showed nearly 40% more variability in their pressure application swing
after swing than did the low handicap group
• High handicappers were up to three times more likely to have greater pressure with the trail hand at impact
than low handicap golfers

 

While examination of Group Data yielded significant difference, it became more interesting as we looked at individual golfers and a combination of their body position at impact, club delivery, and pressure application patterns. The High Handicap group displayed significantly less ability to control both the Loft at Impact and Face Angle. Examining the data from the multiple technology sets made it very clear from a coaching perspective if better results would be achieved through a modification of Body Position in 3D space, or changing applied pressure to the grip.
Significance

 

The significance of this study is that it has immediate impact on the option a golf instructor has to change club delivery. This information opens up a whole new world of constraint-based training that revolves around the physical attachment to the club. To now have guided direction about how to increase or decrease the amount of pressure, or alter the timing of pressure application will give greater specificity to the learner as to what they actually need to do differently in order to achieve their desired result.

 

Acknowledgements

It should be noted that this study was supported by SensorEdge by providing the instrumented grips and by TPT Golf shafts for providing the shafts on which the grips were installed.

 

 

[KD1]

Wow, the timing of this is ... creepy. I was just logging on to specifically read/ask about grip pressure points.

 

My driver has gone to hell recently so I've been spending a lot of time trying to work it out. My lead thumb is worn out! I was standing around today scratching my head trying to figure it why my lead thumb would hurt... this didn't seem right. It some point I lightly clipped the ground in front of the ball and feeling the pain my lead thumb's knuckle I heard Malaska's voice in the back of my head saying "swing level" and "there's no down, gravity takes care of down". If I'm swinging level, or swinging left, why am I pressuring the shaft down with my lead thumb?

 

So I spent the session today just feeling pressure *points* within my grip in transition and impact. I found that when focusing on pushing the shaft down with my trail thumb in transition (cast a/turn the doorknob/ waiter tray) then swinging with pressure on my trail index knuckle (cast b/swing left/swing level) seemed to be the most comfortable and consistent.

 

I thought I was on to something... and then I see your study says high handicappers pressure their trail hand... figures lol

Edited May 23, 2023 by KD1

[Sp4zRX]

I have been waiting many years to see actual data on grip pressure throughout the swing. It doesn’t seem like that difficult of a thing to test with where technology is now. 
 

I am looking forward to seeing the development of this research over the coming years. 

[rondo01]

I wonder how much their findings ultimately have to do with face control and proprioception. It would make sense that a player with less control of the face would require manipulations by the hands which would account for their 3x finding if your dominant hand is the trail hand and is primarily responsible for making the adjustments. The constant grip pressure variability could also be explained by this as the adjustments of the hands would be necessarily occurring to save the shot. 

[Chunkitgood]

A study that says nothing logic and experience either taken alone would not supply.

 

IMO cause and effect confounded.  The degree of grip pressure is rather obviously a result of how the body is swinging the club.

 

Will hands dominated teaching never die?  Perhaps per Kuhn or whoever when its last adherent shuffles of this mortal coil?

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

Getting new data is always a good thing, even if it eventually turns out to corroborate what was known already.  People that pretend to know everything already, usually know the least.
  

[MPStrat]

There is a study Tyler Ferrell has referenced for years about trail hand grip pressure at impact being significantly lighter for more skilled players. To me that has always been obvious, but like anything in golf instruction, there is a lot of conflicting information on the internet. 
 

As more studies are done, I think we could see that one of the main differences between low and high handicap golfers is how they use or possibly “overuse” the trail side of their body starting with the trail hand. 

[rondo01]

15 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

There is a study Tyler Ferrell has referenced for years about trail hand grip pressure at impact being significantly lighter for more skilled players. To me that has always been obvious, but like anything in golf instruction, there is a lot of conflicting information on the internet. 

Absolutely. As a newish weekend warrior, I am thankful for studies that validate established theories as they point out the established theory (much of which people like me haven’t encountered) ! 

Edited May 23, 2023 by rondo01

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

There is a study Tyler Ferrell has referenced for years about trail hand grip pressure at impact being significantly lighter for more skilled players. To me that has always been obvious, but like anything in golf instruction, there is a lot of conflicting information on the internet. 
 

As more studies are done, I think we could see that one of the main differences between low and high handicap golfers is how they use or possibly “overuse” the trail side of their body starting with the trail hand. 

 

That's one thing.

 

The "less variability" likely means that the better players are gripping the club more firmly throughout the swing (more so with their lead hand) as they're all going to grip it "firmly enough" at impact.

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

That's one thing.

 

The "less variability" likely means that the better players are gripping the club more firmly throughout the swing (more so with their lead hand) as they're all going to grip it "firmly enough" at impact.

I asked about 3 dozen tour players a several years ago to shake my hand how firmly they grip the club on different shots.  Almost universally cut the circulation off in my hand after saying, “Pretty loosely.”

 

Putting, pitching, irons and driving you don’t see too many clubs flopping in their hands like they’re holding a bird.

 

The second part of Snead’s statement tells the story.  Like an eagle trying to get away from you. 
 

However, when you look at high caps, especially in putting and short game, you see it flopping around in their hands like a fish on a dock and lots of even good players have their trail hand come almost completely off the grip at the top. 
 

Then they try and compensate with all sorts of excess tension in the arms, neck and shoulders.

 

The overwhelming majority of good to elite players and especially long hitters, have what would be perceived as an extremely firm grip, with an absence of excess tension in the arms l, neck and shoulders.  
 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

with an absence of excess tension in the arms l, neck and shoulders

 

I think the trick (well, one trick) to a good grip is to use the fingers to grip the club firmly, but to have that tension effectively "end" at the wrists.

[Justsomeguy]

17 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I asked about 3 dozen tour players a several years ago to shake my hand how firmly they grip the club on different shots.  Almost universally cut the circulation off in my hand after saying, “Pretty loosely.”

 

Putting, pitching, irons and driving you don’t see too many clubs flopping in their hands like they’re holding a bird.

 

The second part of Snead’s statement tells the story.  Like an eagle trying to get away from you. 
 

However, when you look at high caps, especially in putting and short game, you see it flopping around in their hands like a fish on a dock and lots of even good players have their trail hand come almost completely off the grip at the top. 
 

Then they try and compensate with all sorts of excess tension in the arms, neck and shoulders.

 

The overwhelming majority of good to elite players and especially long hitters, have what would be perceived as an extremely firm grip, with an absence of excess tension in the arms l, neck and shoulders.  
 

 

 

So how do you strangle the handle with your hands while the rest of your body is relaxed?

Are they just unbelievably strong overall and relative to the norm?

Or is it an ability to segment where the tension is?

[MoeMoe]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I think the trick (well, one trick) to a good grip is to use the fingers to grip the club firmly, but to have that tension effectively "end" at the wrists.

True. Something you can't teach. You can explain it a dozen times. It's gotta click, or a lightbulb moment for them.

Then again the old saying, you either have it or you never will.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Justsomeguy said:

Are they just unbelievably strong overall and relative to the norm?

Or is it an ability to segment where the tension is?

 

It's a bit of both.

 

Professional golfers can squeeze quite firmly.

 

[MonteScheinblum]

28 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I think the trick (well, one trick) to a good grip is to use the fingers to grip the club firmly, but to have that tension effectively "end" at the wrists.

Yep

[MPStrat]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I think the trick (well, one trick) to a good grip is to use the fingers to grip the club firmly, but to have that tension effectively "end" at the wrists.

I have heard this before. I assume this is a feel for players who grip it too lightly. I don’t know how it’s even possible to achieve what you’re saying in reality since they would be using forearm muscles to grip it firmly with the fingers. 
 

My grip pressure feels quite light, particularly in the trail hand, but there is a fair amount of tension in my arms. Enough to support some structure in the backswing. 

 

Like probably many others around here, I’ve actually experimented with differing amounts of grip pressure in the swing. As I intentionally increase my grip pressure, my club head speed decreases, dispersion increases, and I hit it all over the clubface. No doubt there are some who would have the opposite experience. 
 

When it comes to putting, Ben Crenshaw and Tiger (who learned from Ben) advocate for very light grip pressure. As Monte described, some will overdo this and have the putter flopping around. This is obviously not good. 
. 

 

. 

[MonteScheinblum]

14 minutes ago, Justsomeguy said:

So how do you strangle the handle with your hands while the rest of your body is relaxed?

Are they just unbelievably strong overall and relative to the norm?

Or is it an ability to segment where the tension is?

Like anything else, it takes practice.  

[MPStrat]

24 minutes ago, Justsomeguy said:

So how do you strangle the handle with your hands while the rest of your body is relaxed?

It’s not possible.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, MPStrat said:

It’s not possible.

 

You can squeeze the grip with your fingers while keeping your wrist, elbow, and shoulder pretty relaxed.

 

Yes, the muscles that squeeze the fingers run up your forearm, but they don't automatically make the wrists, elbow, or shoulder tense.

[MPStrat]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

 

You can squeeze the grip with your fingers while keeping your wrist, elbow, and shoulder pretty relaxed.

 

Yes, the muscles that squeeze the fingers run up your forearm, but they don't automatically make the wrists, elbow, or shoulder tense.

The question was about strangling the handle.

[MPStrat]

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

It's a bit of both.

 

Professional golfers can squeeze quite firmly.

 

 
Is this a swing measurement or a test of overall ability? 

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

Is this a swing measurement or a test of overall ability? 

 

Just using a dynamometer, I think.

[AzRoger]

1 hour ago, Justsomeguy said:

So how do you strangle the handle with your hands while the rest of your body is relaxed?

Are they just unbelievably strong overall and relative to the norm?

Or is it an ability to segment where the tension is?

 

Tour pros have built up grip strength by pounding balls at the range for hours at a time over many years. Most tour pros would probably say they don't grip the club tightly, it's a case of their actual grip pressure being much higher than what they perceive.

Edited May 24, 2023 by AzRoger

[wagolfer7]

55 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Like anything else, it takes practice.  

100% 

 

But luckily something you can play around with in the house when watching TV and stuff.  

 

[bakere]

It will be cool to check out the full study. I find this line interesting "High handicappers were up to three times more likely to have greater pressure with the trail hand at impact
than low handicap golfers".

 

I wonder if that is the "hit impulse" or cast or whatever taking over. Obviously that is the effect from some earlier problem in the swing, but it fits with what happens to me when I'm hitting it poorly. I start "hitting" harder with my right hand and I'm sure I have more grip pressure at impact.

 

Having a tight finger grip but loose wrists is something I struggle with that I continue to practice.

[Ri_Redneck]

15 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Like anything else, it takes practice.  

This was one of the hardest things for me to learn. How to hold the club firmly while not tensing up. Like Monte said, it takes practice. With my lead hand, I am holding the club quite tightly with the last three fingers while my index finger is limp. I was showing my son this juts this past weekend. My forearm is firm and my wrist is not supple, but will load at the top like it should.

 

With my trail hand, I have (what feels like) the slightest amount of grip pressure with my ring and middle finger and nothing with the rest.

 

I use an overlap grip, BTW.

 

BT

Edited May 24, 2023 by Ri_Redneck

[larrybud]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything which indicated at which point in the swing the grip pressure was measured, or if it was an average pressure from takeaway through impact.

 

It sounds like they've quantified pressure differences from swing to swing, but when? Impact? Setup? 

[ferrispgm]

I will tell you one thing....Gripping the putter at like a 7 or 8 has made me so much more consistent it's crazy.  My speed control has been extremely good ever since and that includes putts from 30ft-50ft. It takes some getting used to, but not much.  Plus, I feel like it makes pressure puts easier by giving yourself permission to grip the handle firmer instead of the conventional wisdom of a loose grip and then worrying about how tight you're gripping it. The same goes for chips/pitches.  Ever since Monte mentioned that at a clinic 6 years ago, I made the adjustment and it's just easier.

[GungHoGolf]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:27 PM, iacas said:

 

I think the trick (well, one trick) to a good grip is to use the fingers to grip the club firmly, but to have that tension effectively "end" at the wrists.

 

Tough do to when the muscles that flex your fingers are in your forearm. The tighter you flex your fingers, the more your wrist locks up… try making a tightish fist and then see if you can flop your wrist around loosely, like you can when your fingers are relaxed. 

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

Tough do to when the muscles that flex your fingers are in your forearm. The tighter you flex your fingers, the more your wrist locks up… try making a tightish fist and then see if you can flop your wrist around loosely, like you can when your fingers are relaxed. 

 

I said as much above.

 

On 5/23/2023 at 10:13 PM, iacas said:

You can squeeze the grip with your fingers while keeping your wrist, elbow, and shoulder pretty relaxed.

 

Yes, the muscles that squeeze the fingers run up your forearm, but they don't automatically make the wrists, elbow, or shoulder tense.