Trying to hit more down on the ball

[todd31]

Based on my Trackman numbers, I'm not hitting down on the ball enough (usually between 0-1.5* down with an iron, and 0-2.5" low point after impact).  I have little to no shaft lean.  I've watched Monte's NTC and Power Shift (broke 80 for the first time after this one!), but my impact position doesn't look good.  Last night, I watched this video by Clay Ballard and tried to incorporate some of it into my swing, but I'm not sure I'm heading in the right direction.

 

I'm trying to do 2 things:

1) Trying to get my hands in front of my trail thigh at shaft parallel in the down swing.

2) Trying to rotate my trail leg inwards to open my hips up in the downswing.  This obviously feels weird, but I can't tell if I'm trying to do it too early, too late, or not doing it at all.

 

I have the Trackman numbers if you want to see them -- I uploaded poor strikes because I feel like that's probably where my mistakes are most obvious.  The videos from 6-29 are prior to me trying to make a change, and the videos from 6-30 are from afterwards.

 

What's preventing me from getting into a good impact position?  Poor pressure shift? (to me, it looks like I'm hanging on my trail foot with driver) Backswing? Tempo? I'm open to anything.

6/29 - 7i

6/29 - Driver 6/30 - 9i 6/30 - Driver Edited June 30, 2023 by todd31

[golfarb1]

First some simple setup changes . Flare your left foot 1/4 turn towards target . This will increase your range of motion of your hip rotation and facilitate more torso turn .

Because you are rewiring your brain when you make movement changes , you need to ditch full length , full speed swings and only practice 1/2 speed , 1/2 length swings . 

But first you need to start with “pelvic punch drills “ . These are really pelvic isolation drills in which you take the club back to a point where your lead arm is only about 45 degrees , stop  for a couple of seconds and then hit the ball( enclosed video)  . Because your backswing is so short  with this drill , you will be forced to rotate your pelvis aggressively in order to get the clubhead to the ball. . Only after you are consistently compressing the ball with this  pelvic punch drill should you progress to half swing drills . 
The half swing drills are really a dynamic extension of the pelvic punch drill . If you can not perform the pelvic punch drill consistently , you will also fail to do so with longer dynamic swings . 
 

Edited June 30, 2023 by golfarb1

[todd31]

1 hour ago, golfarb1 said:

First some simple setup changes . Flare your left foot 1/4 turn towards target . This will increase your range of motion of your hip rotation and facilitate more torso turn .

Because you are rewiring your brain when you make movement changes , you need to ditch full length , full speed swings and only practice 1/2 speed , 1/2 length swings . 

But first you need to start with “pelvic punch drills “ . These are really pelvic isolation drills in which you take the club back to a point where your lead arm is only about 45 degrees , stop  for a couple of seconds and then hit the ball( enclosed video)  . Because your backswing is so short  with this drill , you will be forced to rotate your pelvis aggressively in order to get the clubhead to the ball. . Only after you are consistently compressing the ball with this  pelvic punch drill should you progress to half swing drills . 
The half swing drills are really a dynamic extension of the pelvic punch drill . If you can not perform the pelvic punch drill consistently , you will also fail to do so with longer dynamic swings . 
 

 

 

Great, thanks I'll watch this video.  Won't be able to hit balls until Monday but I should have some updates then.

[glk]

You flatten the shaft and swing arms too much around    Then you spin on the downswing so your arms don't have a chance to catch up - you throw the angles etc.

 

arms do up, pivot does around.    Simple thought is to keep the left elbow pointing at the ground.  Can do the stick drill too.

 

Certainly  things in your pivot/ transition could improve  but getting the arms working better would be first step, to me.    Also relax those elbospws especially the left - don't like the hands pushed so far forward especially driver - hands  just inside left thigh is a good spot for all clubs

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by glk

[iacas]

Weight is way back in your heels.

 

Doesn't speak directly to your "hitting down more" quest, but… it's something I'd look to fix.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by iacas

[Pepperturbo]

I know you know this, but I am going to say it anyway; find a good instructor, trust and do what you're told.  Don't hang out on social media asking questions or reading/watching all sorts of videos.  All that does is confuse most people, plus most people have a seriously hard time applying what they read or see, not to mention the criticisms. 

 

By the way, I am self-taught, started at 40yrs old, reached 8 inside 4yrs, 2 index 2 yrs later while working.  Point, I would NEVER suggest to anyone to do what I did.  What's that old phrase; A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client

[todd31]

On 6/30/2023 at 2:26 PM, golfarb1 said:

First some simple setup changes . Flare your left foot 1/4 turn towards target . This will increase your range of motion of your hip rotation and facilitate more torso turn .

Because you are rewiring your brain when you make movement changes , you need to ditch full length , full speed swings and only practice 1/2 speed , 1/2 length swings . 

But first you need to start with “pelvic punch drills “ . These are really pelvic isolation drills in which you take the club back to a point where your lead arm is only about 45 degrees , stop  for a couple of seconds and then hit the ball( enclosed video)  . Because your backswing is so short  with this drill , you will be forced to rotate your pelvis aggressively in order to get the clubhead to the ball. . Only after you are consistently compressing the ball with this  pelvic punch drill should you progress to half swing drills . 
The half swing drills are really a dynamic extension of the pelvic punch drill . If you can not perform the pelvic punch drill consistently , you will also fail to do so with longer dynamic swings . 
 

 

 

I did this drill for about 30 minutes yesterday and I think that this drill got me into what I think looks like a good impact position, which is what I'm really chasing.  Although, against your advice, I didn't only do these punch shots.  I also did some full swings.

[todd31]

On 6/30/2023 at 6:20 PM, iacas said:

Weight is way back in your heels.

 

Doesn't speak directly to your "hitting down more" quest, but… it's something I'd look to fix.

 

 

Thanks for the tip.  I think "hitting down more" was probably a bad title.  As a programmer, I'm terrible at naming stuff.  I'm really chasing a better impact position, and have been fighting early extension my whole life.  I've watched basically every AMG video on this, but am terrible at self-diagnosis.  I did some swings and was mindful to keep my weight more forward (my last lesson a few months ago, my instructor told me my weight was too much on my toes, so I probably over corrected.)  I'll post a swing in a different reply.

[MonteScheinblum]

Backswing is way too long and you shove the right hip out and leave the arms behind.

 

Shorten the swing significantly, getting a little earlier hinge will help that.

 

Then start the downswing by pulling the left hip back versus shoving the right hip out.  Practice rotating against a wall where you make dry swings without ever losing touch.

[todd31]

On 6/30/2023 at 3:34 PM, glk said:

You flatten the shaft and swing arms too much around    Then you spin on the downswing so your arms don't have a chance to catch up - you throw the angles etc.

 

arms do up, pivot does around.    Simple thought is to keep the left elbow pointing at the ground.  Can do the stick drill too.

 

Certainly  things in your pivot/ transition could improve  but getting the arms working better would be first step, to me.    Also relax those elbospws especially the left - don't like the hands pushed so far forward especially driver - hands  just inside left thigh is a good spot for all clubs

 

 

I watched this video and did some drills at home throughout the day on Saturday and Sunday.  I noticed I tended to push the handle away from me right at the beginning of my takeaway, which instantly caused the alignment stick to disconnect.  I made some swings at the sim yesterday alternating between trying to feel the invisible alignment stick touching my left thigh & keeping right elbow pointed at the ground.  I noticed my irons club path were 3-6* in to out, and driver would sometimes be around 10* in to out. 

 

I also swear I tried to relax my elbows, but they still look very stiff.  Even when I felt my left one was bending quite a bit, the video says otherwise.  I have some of those weird elbows that bends a little bit backwards, not sure if that's the reason..

 

Am I headed down the right path?

 

 

 

[todd31]

5 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Backswing is way too long and you shove the right hip out and leave the arms behind.

 

Shorten the swing significantly, getting a little earlier hinge will help that.

 

Then start the downswing by pulling the left hip back versus shoving the right hip out.  Practice rotating against a wall where you make dry swings without ever losing touch.

 

Great, thanks for the advice Monte. 

 

I'm a big fan of yours.  I've bought the NTC and Power Shift videos, so I know what drill you're talking about.

[glk]

2 minutes ago, todd31 said:

I watched this video and did some drills at home throughout the day on Saturday and Sunday.  I noticed I tended to push the handle away from me right at the beginning of my takeaway, which instantly caused the alignment stick to disconnect.  I made some swings at the sim yesterday alternating between trying to feel the invisible alignment stick touching my left thigh & keeping right elbow pointed at the ground.  I noticed my irons club path were 3-6* in to out, and driver would sometimes be around 10* in to out. 

 

I also swear I tried to relax my elbows, but they still look very stiff.  Even when I felt my left one was bending quite a bit, the video says otherwise.  I have some of those weird elbows that bends a little bit backwards, not sure if that's the reason..

 

Am I headed down the right path?

 

 

 

Better - takes time    As noted swing is too long.  And I see in setup you don't bend at the hips but at the upper spine so you have what is called a c posture - not putting your hips in a good starting place.   Definitely need to address how you are moving your pelvis - this applies to you https://www.instagram.com/p/CBvW0eIKnGd/

 

drill for setup https://www.instagram.com/p/CLepiR2F026/?hl=en

 

 

 

[Zitlow]

You look out of balance, like some kind of reverse pivot deal going on.  At the top you should be balanced on and supported by your right leg and hip.

 

 

Your upper body should be behind the ball. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Zitlow

[Zitlow]

Hard to get off your right side when you never get on it in the backswing. You've never seen a baseball pitcher hang on his left side and throw to the catcher. 

 

 

He's swinging the club dynamically, his lower body is leading. 

 

[MPStrat]

2 hours ago, todd31 said:

 

I did this drill for about 30 minutes yesterday and I think that this drill got me into what I think looks like a good impact position, which is what I'm really chasing.  Although, against your advice, I didn't only do these punch shots.  I also did some full swings.

There are elements of this impact position that are good and some that are bad. It’s easy to contrive an impact position in a drill swing but when any speed is added, it falls apart. 

Essentially you have what some call early extension or a better way to look at it is that you are lacking any sort of inclination to the ground at impact. As Glk noted, you don’t really establish an inclination at setup, you create some in the backswing and lose it in the downswing. 
 

If your goal is a more pro-like impact position, there are some fairly significant changes needed in your motion. To summarize your swing, you have what some call a ”lay it off and tip it out” move with the arms. Also known as the Malaska move. In order to change your impact position, you have to change what your body does. In order to change what your body does in the downswing, you will likely have to make a huge change to what your arms do in the backswing and definitely in the downswing.

 

 

 

 

[todd31]

18 hours ago, MPStrat said:

There are elements of this impact position that are good and some that are bad. It’s easy to contrive an impact position in a drill swing but when any speed is added, it falls apart. 

Essentially you have what some call early extension or a better way to look at it is that you are lacking any sort of inclination to the ground at impact. As Glk noted, you don’t really establish an inclination at setup, you create some in the backswing and lose it in the downswing. 
 

If your goal is a more pro-like impact position, there are some fairly significant changes needed in your motion. To summarize your swing, you have what some call a ”lay it off and tip it out” move with the arms. Also known as the Malaska move. In order to change your impact position, you have to change what your body does. In order to change what your body does in the downswing, you will likely have to make a huge change to what your arms do in the backswing and definitely in the downswing.

 

 

 

 

That makes sense because a few months ago I was practicing that move. Damn it

 

edit: what changes would that require?

Edited July 5, 2023 by todd31

[nlk10010]

On 7/4/2023 at 3:12 PM, MPStrat said:

There are elements of this impact position that are good and some that are bad. It’s easy to contrive an impact position in a drill swing but when any speed is added, it falls apart. 
-snip-

 

+1.

 

Don't do what I do: CHASE a position. When I'm practicing indoors I can get into a great-looking impact position by taking the tension out of my arms and "driving" the swing with my hip rotation. Get what I guess is called "float loading". The video of my swing shocked even me! I'd never seen myself in that position before. Great! Now I'm a pro. Went out to the course and my swing fell apart. I'm just as terrible as I was before, only now I have some nice videos of my swing on the ol' iPhone.

 

Problem is that this impact position is really the result of other things you do in your swing (e.g. weight shift, rotation, sequencing) plus, indoors, you only have a two-dimensional view of your swing and very little or no feedback from ball flight. Plus (again) it's practice. Not saying you can't use impact position as another data point in evaluating results, just that it's a data point.

 

I apologize for trying to tell you what you already know, but I would echo the advice of others: Get trained eyes on your swing, whether in person or via video.

 

Good Luck.

Edited July 7, 2023 by nlk10010

[virtuoso]

On 6/30/2023 at 3:40 PM, Pepperturbo said:

I know you know this, but I am going to say it anyway; find a good instructor, trust and do what you're told.  Don't hang out on social media asking questions or reading/watching all sorts of videos.  All that does is confuse most people, plus most people have a seriously hard time applying what they read or see, not to mention the criticisms. 

 

By the way, I am self-taught, started at 40yrs old, reached 8 inside 4yrs, 2 index 2 yrs later while working.  Point, I would NEVER suggest to anyone to do what I did.  What's that old phrase; A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client

Becoming a 2 index in 6 years is darn good. Why can’t others do it the way you did it? Is there a sub-text in the second paragraph that I’m missing?

[virtuoso]

Can no one here see that he is standing WAY too close to the ball? Absolutely no way to make proper body-arm sequencing from that position. Zero chance. His athleticism has generating an emergency procedure: Sit on the heels and stand up out of it to make room. Cast away and shallow angles are the parting gift.

[Liveonce]

22 hours ago, nlk10010 said:

+1.

 

Don't do what I do: CHASE a position. When I'm practicing indoors I can get into a great-looking impact position by taking the tension out of my arms and "driving" the swing with my hip rotation. Get what I guess is called "float loading". The video of my swing shocked even me! I'd never seen myself in that position before. Great! Now I'm a pro. Went out to the course and my swing fell apart. I'm just as terrible as I was before, only now I have some nice videos of my swing on the ol' iPhone.

 

Problem is that this impact position is really the result of other things you do in your swing (e.g. weight shift, rotation, sequencing) plus, indoors, you only have a two-dimensional view of your swing and very little or no feedback from ball flight. Plus (again) it's practice. Not saying you can't use impact position as another data point in evaluating results, just that it's a data point.

 

I apologize for trying to tell you what you already know, but I would echo the advice of others: Get trained eyes on your swing, whether in person or via video.

 

Good Luck.

I do this too. Chase a position , think it looks good on camera, think I figured it out, go to the range, struggle with poor shots again. Rinse and repeat. 

[Pepperturbo]

4 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Becoming a 2 index in 6 years is darn good. Why can’t others do it the way you did it? Is there a sub-text in the second paragraph that I’m missing?

Most people are NOT demanding or tough enough to tackle learning the way I did or do.  However, I'd like to think anyone can.  The factors not included are genetics, been a competitive amateur athlete since HS, natural hand-eye coordination and I own the company which allowed me to take the time.

[virtuoso]

7 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Most people are NOT demanding or tough enough to tackle learning the way I did or do.  However, I'd like to think anyone can.  The factors not included are genetics, been a competitive amateur athlete since HS, natural hand-eye coordination and I own the company which allowed me to take the time.

Ok, gotcha, that would give you certain advantages.