Shanking it everywhere, feel lost, videos inside, appreciate the help.

[Dougan1640]

I am flat out lost, I am not gonna lie.  I can't stop shanking the ball either off the hosel or sometimes with an absolute wide of open clubface.  My backswing feels terrible, nothing feels good.  I feel like I am falling towards the golf ball on my backswing and that might be the bulk of the issue but before I work on that I am looking for any opinions.

 

Videos attached.  Thank you very much for your help guys.

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Dougan1640

[iacas]

Video is private.

[Dougan1640]

Yes, all set now, sorry about that.

 

Thanks again.

[iacas]

You don't use your lower body very much, and your downswing is essentially just "throwing the clubhead at the ball" with your arms. "Throwing the clubhead at the ball" can work (depending on the specifics), but it has to be supported by the whole body.

[MPStrat]

Ya man, weak-ish clubface coming down late, right arm thrusts, body freezes and you stand up early.

 

 

[Dougan1640]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

You don't use your lower body very much, and your downswing is essentially just "throwing the clubhead at the ball" with your arms. "Throwing the clubhead at the ball" can work (depending on the specifics), but it has to be supported by the whole body.

Any advice for fixing issue?

 

Appreciate it.

 

Dan

[Dougan1640]

32 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

Ya man, weak-ish clubface coming down late, right arm thrusts, body freezes and you stand up early.

 

 

 

Yeah, those issues are exactly my problem lol, is me falling towards the golf ball in my backswing the main culprit?  Or am I way off on that?

 

Thanks

[Zitlow]

You've taken your athleticism out of the equation by not getting your weight behind the ball causing you to lose the downswing sequence of lower body, upper body, arms, hands and club. 

 

You should be balanced and supporting most all your body weight on your right leg and hip here. 

 

 

DJ is loaded up on his right side. 

 

 

If you're going to punch someone you would want your weight behind the punch not in front of the punch.

 

 

 

[MPStrat]

17 minutes ago, Dougan1640 said:

 

Yeah, those issues are exactly my problem lol, is me falling towards the golf ball in my backswing the main culprit?  Or am I way off on that?

 

Thanks

Eh, I wouldn’t call that a root cause. There are plenty of guys who do what you do in the backswing and don’t hosel it. I would however, be in favor of cleaning that up for sure.

 

 

[Dougan1640]

32 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

You've taken your athleticism out of the equation by not getting your weight behind the ball causing you to lose the downswing sequence of lower body, upper body, arms, hands and club. 

 

You should be balanced and supporting most all your body weight on your right leg and hip here. 

 

 

DJ is loaded up on his right side. 

 

 

If you're going to punch someone you would want your weight behind the punch not in front of the punch.

 

 

 

 

This makes total sense, I have felt like I always fall backwards on shots also.  I do feel like my weight at the top of my backswing is not loaded well at all.

 

Any advice on how to achieve the proper feel to load up?

 

Thanks

[Zitlow]

You do it 3 or 4 thousand times a day when you walk. Your hands and feet work in tandem every time you take a step. 

 

You step to your right foot, you're right knee extends and your body weight is supported and balanced on your right foot, leg and hip. 

 

As you step with your right foot your left hand swings, your left foot releases and you left side swings. Then the left foot, leg and hip become the balance point and the right side swings. On and on and on.

 

In the golf swing it's like walking sideways. Step to your right foot and swing your left hand while freeing up your left heel the left side can swing around your posted right side. In the downswing it reverses. 

 

His left side swings around his posted right side then his right side swings around his posted left side. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[psgolf2086]

I had a real bad bout of shanks, mine were all off the hosel. I was lurching towards the ball on the downswing, my weight ending up on my toes. It was so bad I almost quit. I'd smash driver down the middle and shank a wedge into the woods. The only thing that got me out of it was the Box Drill. Place a cardboard golf club box pointing down the target line, and set a ball about in line with the middle of the box, a couple inches away from it. Start by taking easy, half swings and work your way up to 3/4 and full. If you slide toward the ball, you'll hit the box so obviously no damage. Do that for a few sessions, take your time as you work up. Feel like your weight is transferring more into your left heel on the downswing.  Coincidentally after I got over my issue I saw an article by Butch Harmon in Golf Digest about how much he loves the box drill, so that validated it in my mind! Good luck

 

 

                                                                     

 

[phizzy30]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

You've taken your athleticism out of the equation by not getting your weight behind the ball causing you to lose the downswing sequence of lower body, upper body, arms, hands and club. 

 

You should be balanced and supporting most all your body weight on your right leg and hip here. 

 

 

DJ is loaded up on his right side. 

 

 

If you're going to punch someone you would want your weight behind the punch not in front of the punch.

 

 

 

100% agree with the punch analogy.  There must be some weight shift to the left side on the down swing.  It doesn't have to be dramatic but it has to be there. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

His left side swings around his posted right side then his right side swings around his posted left side. 

 

And if you actually do that, your pelvis will end up like 6" closer to the ball than when it started.

[Tanner25]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

 

And if you actually do that, your pelvis will end up like 6" closer to the ball than when it started.

 

Was hoping you'd chimed in. @iacas, what is the missing move to this advice to swinging off each posted leg? Is a hip bump needed in-between?

Edited July 5, 2023 by Tanner25

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, Tanner25 said:

Was hoping you'd chimed in. @iacas, what is the missing move to this advice to swinging off each posted leg? Is a hip bump needed in-between?

 

I was merely reacting to the idea that your left side pivots around your right and then reverses. If you actually did that, the center of your pelvis would move closer to the ball on the backswing and the downswing.

 

In reality, though we shift our pressure (more so) and our weight (less so) back (1-2" back at the pelvis center, irons) and forward (4-6") during the golf swing, we pivot around the center of our pelvis for the most part. Our legs or "sides" aren't the pivot points or axles or centers, really.

[Dougan1640]

Ok alright, really worked on loading the right hip and changed up my stance a little bit to help me get more load up behind the ball.

 

Looking for feedback, appreciate all the help already.

 

 

[Zitlow]

Backswing looks much better, more dynamic. In the downswing you turn before you shift. Like walking you need to be supported on your left leg and hip before your right side swings. 

 

Turning your left hip to start the downswing is terrible advice. It would be like a pitcher stepping to 2nd base while throwing to the catcher. He would negate his power.

 

 

Instead, step left and you're balanced and supported on your left foot, leg and hip. Then the right side can swing from the ground up.

 

Your arm swings your shoulder should be the other way around. His shoulder swings his arm into position. it's like throwing a ball, use your whole right side not just your arm for power. 

 

[golfarb1]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

 

I was merely reacting to the idea that your left side pivots around your right and then reverses. If you actually did that, the center of your pelvis would move closer to the ball on the backswing and the downswing.

 

In reality, though we shift our pressure (more so) and our weight (less so) back (1-2" back at the pelvis center, irons) and forward (4-6") during the golf swing, we pivot around the center of our pelvis for the most part. Our legs or "sides" aren't the pivot points or axles or centers, really.

 

Because the pelvis is designed for stability and weight bearing  and is supported by some of the thickest and strongest ligaments in the body,  the range of motion of rotation or pivoting  for each side of the pelvis around its center is very limited  and is FAR LESS than is required  in the golf swing . 
Most of so-called  pivoting or rotation of the pelvis is dependent on positional changes of each HIP SOCKET located on each side of the pelvis AND NOT on pivoting or rotating around the CENTER  of the pelvis. 

These positional changes of the hip sockets are in turn dependent of movements of the head ( top) of each femur ( thigh bone) within each hip socket .

Because there is no center point around which the pelvis pivots  for MOST of its movement , the pelvis is in a real sense dependent on the movements of the legs . 
I bring this up since it directly affects how the pivot or rotation  in the golf swing is described and taught . 
Instead of visualizing pivoting or rotation  of the pelvis , golfers need to think more of straightening each respective leg to maximize rotation . 

 

 

[Nels55]

There can be mechanical causes of a tendency to shank but it is possible to hit good shots with bad swings so you have to think that the cause could be that your strike pattern has moved up to the heel for no real reason.  Hand eye is out of calibration.  Adam Young mentioned how he fixed a blind golfers shanks by simply setting him up with the ball on the toe and bingo no more shanks.  Do with a sighted golfer and the shanks will often get worse.  One way to correct a shank tendency is to practice hitting the ball on the heel and on the toe of the club.  Practicing this way will often move the pattern to the center of the club.  

 

A pro that I had lessons with had a beautiful swing and had trouble shooting over par most of the time until he got the shanks really bad.  He solved them by practicing shanking until he could do it whenever he wanted and that control got rid of the unwanted shanks.  

 

One drill that seems to work really well is to setup to the ball normally and then take three swings missing the ball completely on the inside each time.  Then simply swing and hit the ball.  I have not seen this one fail.

 

LOL I feel your pain because I have had some really bad shanking episodes in the past and one big part of getting past the shanks was my realizing that shanking shot is no big deal it is simply a shot missed a bit too far on the heel and it happens on occasion even to really good players.  So, don't worry about and move on to the next shot. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

Because the pelvis is designed for stability and weight bearing  and is supported by some of the thickest and strongest ligaments in the body,  the range of motion of rotation or pivoting  for each side of the pelvis around its center is very limited  and is FAR LESS than is required  in the golf swing.

 

I'd wager we're not talking about the same thing.

 

2 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

Most of so-called  pivoting or rotation of the pelvis is dependent on positional changes of each HIP SOCKET located on each side of the pelvis AND NOT on pivoting or rotating around the CENTER  of the pelvis.

 

Yeah… we're not talking about the same thing. I'm just talking about what most people would call "pelvis rotation" or "hip turn." Obviously what leads to this is not just someone leaving their legs still and trying to twist their hips in place. I didn't say that, either.

 

2 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

These positional changes of the hip sockets are in turn dependent of movements of the head ( top) of each femur ( thigh bone) within each hip socket.

 

Of course.

 

2 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

Instead of visualizing pivoting or rotation  of the pelvis , golfers need to think more of straightening each respective leg to maximize rotation . 

 

Eh… I like the trail side knee extending as much as most, but there's more to it than that. I think you'd be surprised at, say, how much Rory extends his trail knee in his backswing while getting 40° of pelvis rotation. It's not much.

[golfarb1]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

I'd wager we're not talking about the same thing.

 

 

Yeah… we're not talking about the same thing. I'm just talking about what most people would call "pelvis rotation" or "hip turn." Obviously what leads to this is not just someone leaving their legs still and trying to twist their hips in place. I didn't say that, either.

 

 

Of course.

 

 

Eh… I like the trail side knee extending as much as most, but there's more to it than that. I think you'd be surprised at, say, how much Rory extends his trail knee in his backswing while getting 40° of pelvis rotation. It's not much.

I am describing basic anatomy / kinesiology  of the pelvis .  It applies to EVERYONE , with no exceptions  . Now we all have different ranges of motion, size of the pelvis etc , so we will all have different capabilities .

 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

I am describing basic anatomy / kinesiology  of the pelvis .  It applies to EVERYONE , with no exceptions  . Now we all have different ranges of motion, size of the pelvis etc , so we will all have different capabilities .

 

I didn't say that this did or didn't "apply" to anyone. Again, we're not talking about the same thing, and since this topic is about this guy shanking, and not trying to define terms and whatever else "this" is…

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by iacas

[LKNgolf]

You can get in the weeds dissecting all the various movements in the backswing but really the only move that matters in this case is the hosel getting closer to the ball at impact.  I saw someone post about the cardboard box drill and also the one about practicing your swing inside the ball.  This is the kind of stuff you need to master before you focus on your legs and everything else.  There are guys who shoot fantastic scores everyday with weird looking stuff in their swings.  Clubface is king.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, LKNgolf said:

You can get in the weeds dissecting all the various movements in the backswing but really the only move that matters in this case is the hosel getting closer to the ball at impact.  I saw someone post about the cardboard box drill and also the one about practicing your swing inside the ball.  This is the kind of stuff you need to master before you focus on your legs and everything else.  There are guys who shoot fantastic scores everyday with weird looking stuff in their swings.  Clubface is king.

And what moves the clubface/clubhead?

[Nard_S]

Might be helpful to adjust setup. Seems there's too much shoulder overhang. Body weight looks to be promoting off balance issue too.

[LKNgolf]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I have no idea why the site is putting my reply in your quote box…but I was saying your hands obviously move the clubface.  Evidence by you can hold the club and move it around.  Not trying to be a smart *ss just sayin when a guy is on the real struggle bus with hosel rockets it helps to get down to the smallest point of the swing and get it on track before you start the complexities of body action etc.  you can fix a lot of problems by standing with your feet together and hitting half shots to groove your path from waist high to waist high 

Edited July 6, 2023 by LKNgolf
Weird quote glitch

[iacas]

8 hours ago, LKNgolf said:

I have no idea why the site is putting my reply in your quote box…but I was saying your hands obviously move the clubface.

 

Your whole body does. So, while "clubface" or "clubhead" may be king… by changing the way your body moves, you change how the clubhead moves.

 

8 hours ago, LKNgolf said:

Not trying to be a smart *ss just sayin when a guy is on the real struggle bus with hosel rockets it helps to get down to the smallest point of the swing and get it on track before you start the complexities of body action etc.

 

I get that. But in my experience it's a short-term fix, because the underlying issue(s) are still there. That's all I was getting at.

 

I've had people who otherwise are swinging it fine, but just keep hitting it off the toe or something. And sometimes I'll say something like "you know, sometimes it's just some hand-eye coordination. Stop hitting it off the toe, goofball."

[virtuoso]

For a short term fix, work on the outside of the circle. For a long term fix, you'll probably be led to the inside of the circle. But, the outside of the circle is instructive and leads you to the right place to diagnose the root problems....and I'm increasingly finding that teaching the outside first can reverse engineer good core movements. If you were teaching a kid to throw a baseball, you'd have him focus on the arm movements first. It would be absurd to make him practice his hip movement before handing him the ball.

Edited July 6, 2023 by virtuoso

[MPStrat]

11 hours ago, LKNgolf said:

You can get in the weeds dissecting all the various movements in the backswing but really the only move that matters in this case is the hosel getting closer to the ball at impact.  I saw someone post about the cardboard box drill and also the one about practicing your swing inside the ball.  This is the kind of stuff you need to master before you focus on your legs and everything else. .

Chronic shankers will chuckle at this. What you’re suggesting is often a band aid and doesn’t work as easily as you make it sound. Forcing yourself to back away from the ball or swing inside the ball to avoid a shank is not really understanding what’s happening with most chronic shankers. If this really worked it would be the end all. The shanks would be nearly eradicated from the golfing population other than for the sad few who have never heard of the butch Harmon headcover drill. 

Sure you can try to swing inside the ball and nearly fall over and have really weird contact and avoid the hosel but that’s not getting to the issue. 

 

There is a time and place for the Adam Young  school of thought, until there isn’t.