24 Handicapper Seeking Swing Advice (Both Long and Short Irons)

Stinger Sanchez · July 11, 2023

I am a 24 handicapper. I got my 1st set of clubs back in 2019, but only really got to take a couple lessons here and there each year, and play 2-3 rounds. Then, COVID hit, and I didn't play for a while. Beginning of this year, I fell in love with golf and have been taking it seriously. My goal for the year is to properly break 90 a couple times (on a par 72 course), and work my handicap down towards a 20 at least. Prior to this year, I had only ever broken 100 once, but now, I'm able to do so quite regularly (which I attribute to my chipping, putting and not using a driver).

Here are a few swings from my range session last week with a short iron (8i I think). It would be really helpful if anyone could provide some feedback on what I could do better. My natural shot is typically a draw. I don't know how to hit fades/cuts.

I am also attaching a bad shot with a 3i off the teebox from a month ago, which I am hot and cold with. I either have amazing days where I hit it 220-240 down the fairway (slight push or push draw) 9/10 shots, or on my bad days, I am hooking the ball crazy 8/10 shots. The ball would travel 170-180 yards straight, and for the last 30 yards, it would make a 45 or even 90 degree left turn out of the fairway. The problem is I can't conretely pinpoint what I'm doing differently between good and bad days with the 3i. Is my backswing with the 3i too shallow? I noticed that my swing with the short iron is a lot more stable and balanced, but tempo is too quick?

Lastly, I am also including a clip of when I did hit the 3i dead straight onto the green on a 235 yard Par 3. But, that clip is from a lot earlier on. I also have really bad balance there.

What do you notice? I would really appreciate anyone's help.

kowalgolf · July 11, 2023

Nope, 12 hdcp. maybe especially if your a good putter and chipper. Do others smell a sandbagger?

GoGoErky · July 11, 2023

2 hours ago, kowalgolf said:

Nope, 12 hdcp. maybe especially if your a good putter and chipper. Do others smell a sandbagger?

Basing it off a swing is hard. I know guys with decent looking swings and have lots of doubles and triples because they can’t putt and/or have no short game.

Also the early extension here can cause two way misses and balls that end up in bad places on the course and require a recovery shot to get the ball back in play

Valtiel · July 12, 2023

12 hours ago, kowalgolf said:

Nope, 12 hdcp. maybe especially if your a good putter and chipper. Do others smell a sandbagger?

Pretty rude and unhelpful comment, especially considering there is plenty in here that would explain why the OP is struggling.

As @GoGoErky mentioned there is a pretty severe early extension issue going on here due to incorrect pelvic rotation in addition to the club path issues you @Stinger Sanchez alluded to that are also why you can't hit fades/cuts as mentioned.

The main takeaway here is a common one; you thrust your body out towards the ball in a massive way which creates a host of timing based issues. Early extension, depth loss, goat hump....all terms for this movement, and it causes issues with strike quality/consistency, low point control, and face control. This is generally caused by the fact that intuitively we try to use our strong side (right for a righty) for power in transition, attempting to create rotation by thrusting the right hip forward. Unfortunately this is backwards (note Adam above) and unless taught correctly is what a vast majority of us will do by default. This involves a wholesale relearning of how and when to use your lower body, so this will take time both to understand and to implement. Here are two resources to help:

Monte's Hips Don't Lie

Monte Shifts Himself

Monte is a well respected instructor that posts here regularly and I have a dumb sense of humor, so that explains the two questions you likely had here 😆

The first video is just an illustration/exaggeration of that type of move you're making and then the one you want to make. The second video is the sequence necessary to actually pull this off, the basic idea being that in order to move your hips in the "correct" way you need weight on them, and with how much faster the downswing is than the backswing there is a required shift off your trail side early and into your front side. Youtube any high level golfer with "face on" in the title e.g. "Tiger Woods Iron Swing Face on" and you'll see versions of this type of shift Monte details here.

(A side note here before talking about hand/arm path, we can see the hip action I referred to above here. Tiger pushing his left hip back, you firing your right hip out)

The second thing to mention is why you're hooking the ball so much and are unable to hit fades. In transition you basically drop a lot of your upper bits (hands/arms/elbow) straight down as well as cast the club very early. The latter is likely a product of sequencing (you're moving VERY fast and things are getting out of sequence as a result, more on that below), but the former is where your very inside club path is coming from which puts in a permanent "slinging draw" kind of delivery. Why exactly your path is this way is hard to say for sure, but your takeaway is quite flat and inside as well so it could be a product/extension of that that:

Like the hip issue I described above, this is an extremely common takeaway fault that result from this type of position being much more physically intuitive. Basically it's way easier to swing the club around you like a baseball bat than "up" like you need to swing a golf club. This drill is one of the go-to's for addressing an inside takeaway, and subsequently any wrist set issues you might have, although i'm not really seeing that here.

Overall that's a lot of info so I encourage taking it SLOW, especially since you already have a lightning fast tempo. Given that quickness it should be noted that your backswing is very long for an 8i and with how hard you fire your lower body that is likely creating the problems with sequencing e.g. your hands/arms getting left behind. Shortening that up a bit here can help, and generally getting your head around the fact that you can generate the same speeds without "flailing" at the ball as much as you are. None of these will come easily, and they will be almost impossible if you attempt them at full speed to start with.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Valtiel

kowalgolf · July 12, 2023

8 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Pretty rude and unhelpful comment, especially considering there is plenty in here that would explain why the OP is struggling.

As @GoGoErky mentioned there is a pretty severe early extension issue going on here due to incorrect pelvic rotation in addition to the club path issues you @Stinger Sanchez alluded to that are also why you can't hit fades/cuts as mentioned.

The main takeaway here is a common one; you thrust your body out towards the ball in a massive way which creates a host of timing based issues. Early extension, depth loss, goat hump....all terms for this movement, and it causes issues with strike quality/consistency, low point control, and face control. This is generally caused by the fact that intuitively we try to use our strong side (right for a righty) for power in transition, attempting to create rotation by thrusting the right hip forward. Unfortunately this is backwards (note Adam above) and unless taught correctly is what a vast majority of us will do by default. This involves a wholesale relearning of how and when to use your lower body, so this will take time both to understand and to implement. Here are two resources to help:

Monte's Hips Don't Lie

Monte Shifts Himself

Monte is a well respected instructor that posts here regularly and I have a dumb sense of humor, so that explains the two questions you likely had here 😆

The first video is just an illustration/exaggeration of that type of move you're making and then the one you want to make. The second video is the sequence necessary to actually pull this off, the basic idea being that in order to move your hips in the "correct" way you need weight on them, and with how much faster the downswing is than the backswing there is a required shift off your trail side early and into your front side. Youtube any high level golfer with "face on" in the title e.g. "Tiger Woods Iron Swing Face on" and you'll see versions of this type of shift Monte details here.

(A side note here before talking about hand/arm path, we can see the hip action I referred to above here. Tiger pushing his left hip back, you firing your right hip out)

The second thing to mention is why you're hooking the ball so much and are unable to hit fades. In transition you basically drop a lot of your upper bits (hands/arms/elbow) straight down as well as cast the club very early. The latter is likely a product of sequencing (you're moving VERY fast and things are getting out of sequence as a result, more on that below), but the former is where your very inside club path is coming from which puts in a permanent "slinging draw" kind of delivery. Why exactly your path is this way is hard to say for sure, but your takeaway is quite flat and inside as well so it could be a product/extension of that that:

Like the hip issue I described above, this is an extremely common takeaway fault that result from this type of position being much more physically intuitive. Basically it's way easier to swing the club around you like a baseball bat than "up" like you need to swing a golf club. This drill is one of the go-to's for addressing an inside takeaway, and subsequently any wrist set issues you might have, although i'm not really seeing that here.

Overall that's a lot of info so I encourage taking it SLOW, especially since you already have a lightning fast tempo. Given that quickness it should be noted that your backswing is very long for an 8i and with how hard you fire your lower body that is likely creating the problems with sequencing e.g. your hands/arms getting left behind. Shortening that up a bit here can help, and generally getting your head around the fact that you can generate the same speeds without "flailing" at the ball as much as you are. None of these will come easily, and they will be almost impossible if you attempt them at full speed to start with.

I apologize to the OP and the forum. He must be playing from the tips with that hdcp. For the short period of time he's played the game he has some serious talent if he finds the right instructor and I hope he listens to you guys for taking the time and effort to help him. He could be my partner in a scramble any day. Again my apologizes.

North Butte · July 12, 2023

A 24hcp teeing off on every hole with a 3i instead of a driver is a problem in an of itself IMO. That choice of club alone is going to amplify all the harmful swing tendencies that @Valtiel has explained.

dfeldss · July 12, 2023

22 hours ago, kowalgolf said:

Nope, 12 hdcp. maybe especially if your a good putter and chipper. Do others smell a sandbagger?

Nah. I have a nice looking swing to the untrained eye and i still stink. 13 hc and going to the wrong way. If you have a few fatal flaws you can hit it all over the planet

Also not sure what the benefit of sandbagging your HC on an online forum would be

Edited July 12, 2023 by dfeldss