Are some golfers just more prone to "blowup holes; lost my swing completely"?

[doctor220]

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

There are no “shoulds”. Hit what allows you to score the best on the course you’re playing. 

Yes which generally is driver for most courses. There is no point hitting driver 300 if you are mainly hitting 2 iron 250 off the tee. 

[MelloYello]

17 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

It isn't that my driver is being swung too hard and that I have phantom power. Yesterday, I hit driver 4 times and 3 wood 2 times. My results were: 

3W-275 in the fairway; D-305 in the fairway; D-310 in the fairway; 3W: 270 in the fairway; D-320 in the fairway; D-2 balls crazy right OB. Most any regular golfer would take the first 5 holes off the tee. I was cruising. And then wham, got punched in the face. Rolling out to 300+ is a comfortable swing for me. I can get more if I go for it but the result is often bad, so all of my swings now are 70-80%. My scores are coming down, FIR and GIR are up, but the blowup holes haven't departed yet. 

 

Yes, I have tried laying up, but it doesn't work so well on a 450 yard par 4. I leave myself 200+ for the approach and that's no fun. A good friend of mine is a +2 and he says "you have to be comfortable hitting your driver or 3 wood on tight holes unless they are short and strategic. Otherwise you end up playing for par (at best)". 

 

I agree with your buddy. He's not wrong. There are definitely a few moments during the round you have no choice but to hit a good shot and club selection doesn't offer a solution. 

 

So yeah, in your case you have to figure out what (in your swing) is producing that massive block. Probably just a take-away / path issue combined with a hip slide or something. Pretty common TBH. 

[MelloYello]

3 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Sounds like club path may be getting too extreme and you are able to manage it until you don't. 

 

This is what I'd look at, FWIW. 

 

@RoyalMustang Visit a Launch Monitor so you can get some reliable data on what your actual delivery pattern / tendency is. Only from that will you really understand what you "should" be working on. 

 

For instance, I'm a bit lazy and let the club get behind me--spent years doing this as a developing player so it's always there--and I'll tend to let the club lag behind my body. This results in the club always heading out to the right.

 

So in short, I tend to creep towards hitting a high push. It's not unplayable but it does have to be factored in during certain rounds and on certain holes. Understanding one's swing is a huge part of golf. 

[SNIPERBBB]

2 hours ago, doctor220 said:

Yes which generally is driver for most courses. There is no point hitting driver 300 if you are mainly hitting 2 iron 250 off the tee. 

Sure if you're playing a sub 6000 yard course. Or your course is all doglegs/forced layups

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

2 hours ago, MelloYello said:

There are definitely a few moments during the round you have no choice but to hit a good shot and club selection doesn't offer a solution. 

I agree, but for the most part, driver does yield a good shot.  It's just that Mustang has a kinesthetic brain-fart once every 10 swings or so.  Wouldn't he blast a 2-iron out of bounds during one of those, just as gleefully as he's blasting his driver OB?

 

I'll advocate talking to an instructor, @RoyalMustang, and seeing if you can replicate the fault.  If you can, have the instructor tell you what's going on.  Maybe it is that you've some big flaws you normally compensate for, but once in awhile, your timing is off?  Or you relax your posture, etc...   

 

You're not describing a minor flaw that only shows up because it's a driver, you hit it a mile, so your dispersion tolerances are a lot less than most peoples' and you barely fail to curve the ball back in bounds..  It sounds like you're describing a, "Holy S$^t!  What was that!"  Which is compounded by this fault state being consistent to replicate, once you start to hit it that way.  Am I wrong?

 

The instructor might be able to ID a key they see during these bad swings, and give you a drill or a key so you'll avoid that move.

[mgoblue83]

I have the same issue. Swinging driver 118-120mph is great when my timing is on but if it's even a little off the ball is off the property. Really puts into perspective how good the pros are. 

 

I have swing flaws that require compensation and good timing so when I'm playing a lot of golf and my body is moving well I am a scratch golfer but on days when I'm not moving well I'll shoot in the 80s. 

 

 

[RoyalMustang]

4 hours ago, bluedot said:

If you haven’t already, consider reading “Thinking Fast, Thinking Slow” by Daniel Kanneman, who is the only psychologist to win a Nobel Prize, though he won it for economics.  It might surprise you at how much it can help with this situation.

It's one of my favorite books! Kahneman/Tversky are brilliant. 

[RoyalMustang]

4 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

This is what I'd look at, FWIW. 

 

@RoyalMustang Visit a Launch Monitor so you can get some reliable data on what your actual delivery pattern / tendency is. Only from that will you really understand what you "should" be working on. 

 

For instance, I'm a bit lazy and let the club get behind me--spent years doing this as a developing player so it's always there--and I'll tend to let the club lag behind my body. This results in the club always heading out to the right.

 

So in short, I tend to creep towards hitting a high push. It's not unplayable but it does have to be factored in during certain rounds and on certain holes. Understanding one's swing is a huge part of golf. 

 

I can rent a bay at a shop nearby. Sounds like I also may need some further instruction to "understand" the issues causing my swing path problems. It would be great to have a lesson with a monitor sometime so that I could then self-diagnose later with launch monitor rental time. 

 

Last night, I played the same 9 and had the same "one bad swing" that cost me. Fortunately, it was into a hazard that I could punch out of (while being wary of water moccasins), saving bogey. I had 2 birdies to compensate. If I had to guess, it came down to tempo and starting the downswing with my arms instead of my hips and torso. The timing was just a little off but 50 yards right with a 3W is a big miss there. Every other tee shot was fairway or really close. 

 

To respond to others, hitting a 4-iron is probably the most accurate club for me off the tee. I can push a hybrid high or hook it. 4-iron is pretty much in the middle every time. This time of year, it may roll out to 230. That's fine on a 380 yard par 4 but not so much on a 440 yard one. 

[TheDeanAbides]

4 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I can rent a bay at a shop nearby. Sounds like I also may need some further instruction to "understand" the issues causing my swing path problems. It would be great to have a lesson with a monitor sometime so that I could then self-diagnose later with launch monitor rental time. 

 

Last night, I played the same 9 and had the same "one bad swing" that cost me. Fortunately, it was into a hazard that I could punch out of (while being wary of water moccasins), saving bogey. I had 2 birdies to compensate. If I had to guess, it came down to tempo and starting the downswing with my arms instead of my hips and torso. The timing was just a little off but 50 yards right with a 3W is a big miss there. Every other tee shot was fairway or really close. 

 

To respond to others, hitting a 4-iron is probably the most accurate club for me off the tee. I can push a hybrid high or hook it. 4-iron is pretty much in the middle every time. This time of year, it may roll out to 230. That's fine on a 380 yard par 4 but not so much on a 440 yard one. 

I 100% guarantee that you didn’t start any swing with your arms instead of your hips and torso. I’d be amazed if, at your level, you could even do that by accident. That’s not being glib. 

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

I have the same issue. Swinging driver 118-120mph is great when my timing is on but if it's even a little off the ball is off the property. Really puts into perspective how good the pros are. 

 

I have swing flaws that require compensation and good timing so when I'm playing a lot of golf and my body is moving well I am a scratch golfer but on days when I'm not moving well I'll shoot in the 80s. 

 

 

 

I'm not scratch but this sounds a lot like me. The distance you have gives you a huge advantage over a person with a 103mph SS and therefore gives you a higher ceiling, but matching it with only average accuracy induces more potential error. The variance of scores goes way up. Since I started playing, I have always had plenty of distance; I'm chasing accuracy and consistency and am now at a point where I am "generally" accurate for my cap, aside from the blow-up holes. My goal at this time is not to generically "get better"; it's to tighten the window for misses and make them manageable.  

[RoyalMustang]

3 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I 100% guarantee that you didn’t start any swing with your arms instead of your hips and torso. I’d be amazed if, at your level, you could even do that by accident. That’s not being glib. 

 

Maybe starting them together? When I'm swinging well, I get to the top and at transition, feel my hips driving forward, with my torso following and my arms super relaxed, almost gumby-like with lots of lag. When I swing poorly, my arms/hands feel much more active, like they get to the ball first. 

[TheDeanAbides]

34 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Maybe starting them together? When I'm swinging well, I get to the top and at transition, feel my hips driving forward, with my torso following and my arms super relaxed, almost gumby-like with lots of lag. When I swing poorly, my arms/hands feel much more active, like they get to the ball first. 

 

 

Do you shallow the club by dropping your right shoulder in transition? 

[CSagan]

Driver yips. My God have mercy on your soul.

[Denny100]

9 hours ago, doctor220 said:

Don’t agree re the 2 iron. You should hit driver most holes on most courses. Sure if it’s quirky and hitting driver puts you into junk then don’t hit it , but generally if you are a decent player you should hit driver a lot most of the time. 

 

That theory is good.....in theory

 

In reality for this to work, you need to be playing courses that are quite open without loads of trees, or bad rough.

 

I play courses in the UK that you need to be able to hit 30 yard hooks and slices around doglegs to get close to greens....its just not feasible in fast running conditions and sometimes contrary to the philosophy of strokes gained, youre just better off getting the ball in play at all costs.

[Valtiel]

On 9/11/2023 at 12:45 PM, RoyalMustang said:

 

It's right on blowup holes, left when I am too quick. I can keep the left one in check with tempo, but the right miss is a mystery. I probably need some video to really figure out with the right miss what's going on. 

 

15 hours ago, b.mattay said:

Most likely scenario is that you have a major swing flaw but are very strong/athletic/coordinated and can make up for it the vast majority of the time. The times you don't are when the huge huge misses come into play. 

 

9 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Best bet would be to get your swing on video to see what’s happening. My bet is that you have a sequencing issue that you’re managing with good hands… until you’re not..

 

7 hours ago, bluedot said:

The better your fundamentals and the betting you understand what particular ball flights mean about your swing, the quicker you can right the ship.  And, as Monte Scheinblum preaches all the time, trying to reinvent your swing by making changes mid-round instead of trying to execute your fundamentals well will only make it worse.

 

6 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Sounds like club path may be getting too extreme and you are able to manage it until you don't. 

Agreed with the above. It's best not spend any energy just chalking this up to the mysteries of golf...there are tangible and measurable reasons for why these things happen that can be addressed, likely one or more of the bits listed above. 

@RoyalMustang You posted a swing video once before but from an unfortunate angle and I haven't seen any others since. It would be far more productive at this point to focus on looking at the realities of what you're working with via video over continuing to discuss the hypotheticals on paper. I guarantee that the feedback you get will be a lot more actionable there. 

[RoyalMustang]

18 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Agreed with the above. It's best not spend any energy just chalking this up to the mysteries of golf...there are tangible and measurable reasons for why these things happen that can be addressed, likely one or more of the bits listed above. 

@RoyalMustang You posted a swing video once before but from an unfortunate angle and I haven't seen any others since. It would be far more productive at this point to focus on looking at the realities of what you're working with via video over continuing to discuss the hypotheticals on paper. I guarantee that the feedback you get will be a lot more actionable there. 

 

I'll work on getting a new one tomorrow. 

[RoyalMustang]

19 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

 

 

Do you shallow the club by dropping your right shoulder in transition? 

 

I don't think so. I do have a tendency to get the club "behind me" and "hands first" rather than stay on-plane with my shoulders. Last night (after thinking about that, based on what another poster here noted), I focused on it for a few holes and had great results on every swing. On a long par 5 I hit a great drive perfectly on line and then flushed my 6-iron from 195 to within 10 feet of the tucked-back corner pin (of course I lipped out the eagle). All I did was think about shoulders turn to 90 degrees, pause, and body unwinding.

 

It could be that I am/was getting too far back; I've been working hard on my flexibility as I wasn't able to get to 90 degrees previously with my shoulders and was likely inducing sway to try and compensate. Now, if I turn my shoulders and simply pull that back hip up, I stay much more centered (probably go from 50-50 at setup to 70-30 at the top) rather than the 85-15 I had before. 

[TheDeanAbides]

7 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I don't think so. I do have a tendency to get the club "behind me" and "hands first" rather than stay on-plane with my shoulders. Last night (after thinking about that, based on what another poster here noted), I focused on it for a few holes and had great results on every swing. On a long par 5 I hit a great drive perfectly on line and then flushed my 6-iron from 195 to within 10 feet of the tucked-back corner pin (of course I lipped out the eagle). All I did was think about shoulders turn to 90 degrees, pause, and body unwinding.

 

It could be that I am/was getting too far back; I've been working hard on my flexibility as I wasn't able to get to 90 degrees previously with my shoulders and was likely inducing sway to try and compensate. Now, if I turn my shoulders and simply pull that back hip up, I stay much more centered (probably go from 50-50 at setup to 70-30 at the top) rather than the 85-15 I had before. 

We really need to see your swing to accurately comment - as do you. Some of the things you say suggest that you have some clichéd swing teaching ideas messing with your understanding. That’s entirely normal - even for good players. 

[Long_Left]

On 9/11/2023 at 12:51 PM, Esage said:

I have this happen , and it's always tempo related .

I'd second this for my personal experience. Lefty playing a cut with driver tee shots. 

 

I work on my tempo, a lot, the Tour Tempo app is the best money I've ever spent on golf. When I'm comfortable and relaxed and playing for fun against buddies, it's an easy game. When I'm in pressure situations, I tend to get into "data" mode, grinding, elevated expectations, etc.

 

If I overthink stuff, I will occasionally rush transition/short backswing, weight hasn't gotten forward, cue the trail side bend and here comes the 10 degree open clubface and a monster shove into someone's pool. Hence the username. If I'm lucky, this happens on a wedge or short iron early in the round and it triggers me to keep my focus, unlucky is standing on a par 5 tee with OB left when I'm reminded that I'm not as good as I think I am. I have a pack of rabid squirrels in my head most days, I've learned to live with it.

 

Lately I've made some progress just by thinking about my miss as the last thing before my PSR. I know it sounds counterintuitive but it allows me to not let the lie/wind/distance stuff take over my brain. I've never been a "see ball hit ball" player, so the few times a round that happens (pressure, beer, overconfidence) the results are less than stellar. I also hit this shot on purpose at the range during warmup, once every 10ish rounds I need to hit a stupid high cutting 5i and I know I have it in my arsenal.

[me05501]

One of the old timers (Sarazen? Hagen?) was known for saying "I average six poor shots every round. When I hit a poor shot I just chalk it up as one of the six and go on about my business." 

 

That's a great attitude. 

 

Contrast that with the typical handicap player who hits a few poor shots and starts trying to fix himself out on the course or carries the fear of his most recent miss in the back of his mind over his next ten shots. How's that working for ya? 

 

Golf cannot be mastered. Think of that period of time when TW was stuck between swings and couldn't hit a fairway to save his life. Tiger Woods was lost! What chance do you have?

 

Having 7 good holes and 2 bad holes is the nature of the game. Whether those bad holes are triples or merely bogeys is somewhat under your control, but the difference is more between your ears than between your shoulders. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by me05501

[Mono]

what is your finish like when these shots happen?  that push slice from overly in to out - can be caused by falling back too much - the idea that you can have it happen not just with driver but with safety clubs off the tee - makes me think this started happening with the driver and has leaked to other clubs - but almost always just off the tee?

[Socrates]

21 hours ago, me05501 said:

One of the old timers (Sarazen? Hagen?) was known for saying "I average six poor shots every round. When I hit a poor shot I just chalk it up as one of the six and go on about my business." 

 

That's a great attitude. 

 

Contrast that with the typical handicap player who hits a few poor shots and starts trying to fix himself out on the course or carries the fear of his most recent miss in the back of his mind over his next ten shots. How's that working for ya? 

 

Golf cannot be mastered. Think of that period of time when TW was stuck between swings and couldn't hit a fairway to save his life. Tiger Woods was lost! What chance do you have?

 

Having 7 good holes and 2 bad holes is the nature of the game. Whether those bad holes are triples or merely bogeys is somewhat under your control, but the difference is more between your ears than between your shoulders. 

I usually break down a round into good shots vs bad shots.  When I hit too many bad shots, I know I need to work on some fundamentals.  For me 6-8 bad shots happen.  A great round is less than 6.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Socrates