I finally found a way to disprove that modern golf is better!

[RMach]

Hey all, just outside of Pittsburgh PA is Marion Golf Course. They use wicker baskets instead of flags at the greens.

Why? You might ask.

Well, 'ya see, this started in ancient Scotland and was copied/carried over at Marion in PA, USA.

See, the thing is, some folks running Scottish courses considered it CHEATING to know exactly what the wind was doing at the greens. Nay wind; Nay Golf!

Now, consider adjustable loft angles, adjustable weights both back and front and weights side to side adjustable.

CHEATING? Whom am I to say?

[tatertot]

So how are the wood shafts, mashie heads and feathery balls working out for ya?

[bcstones]

@RMach not cheating...it's the business of today's golf "game" vs the playing the Game of Golf

[grm24]

1 hour ago, RMach said:

Hey all, just outside of Pittsburgh PA is Marion Golf Course. They use wicker baskets instead of flags at the greens.

Why? You might ask.

Well, 'ya see, this started in ancient Scotland and was copied/carried over at Marion in PA, USA.

See, the thing is, some folks running Scottish courses considered it CHEATING to know exactly what the wind was doing at the greens. Nay wind; Nay Golf!

Now, consider adjustable loft angles, adjustable weights both back and front and weights side to side adjustable.

CHEATING? Whom am I to say?

Marion? Just outside of Pittsburgh? That course doesn't exist.

Now Merion just outside of Philadelphia on the other hand..........

 

FWIW Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are on opposites sides of the state nearly 300 miles apart. But ramble on! 🤣

[RMach]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:35 PM, grm24 said:

Marion? Just outside of Pittsburgh? That course doesn't exist.

Now Merion just outside of Philadelphia on the other hand..........

 

FWIW Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are on opposites sides of the state nearly 300 miles apart. But ramble on! 🤣

You know, I was stating something from memory. I am a human being and am not perfect. Geography aside I can tell you do not have the morals or character to comprehend the point that I was making.

What a jerk!

[RMach]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:12 PM, bcstones said:

@RMach not cheating...it's the business of today's golf "game" vs the playing the Game of Golf

You are right, but are we all gonna buy the Einstein designed putter from Caddy Shack to enrich the manufacturers and buy ourselves the best score we can afford? I really do believe that we are sliding down a very slippery slope where our equipment has a great day on the course. Where are the bragging rights and the self satisfaction in any of that?

[RMach]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:27 PM, tatertot said:

So how are the wood shafts, mashie heads and feathery balls working out for ya?

I hit 1973 Walter Hagen Hage-Ultras and 1974 Titleist AC-108s. My Otie Crisman putter has a wooden shaft and the rear weight is also wood. I do have a Mashie but it is on a metal shaft. Feather balls, pretty funny, but since you bring up balls, modern golf balls are what they are. But when Mark McGuire had his amazing summer of home runs the balls where like 10% bouncier that year. So, one more asterisk next to that record in my book. Not just the steroids.

How are your clubs playing this year? Did they have fun blowing by all the hard spots like fairway bunkers? Does driver/8-iron or lower on every par 4 seem as fun as when a whole set of clubs was not just desired but also required for correct play?

But you are right in that I tend to be a bit of a troglodyte. Maybe I will break out the old 2000 Wilson Pro Staffs and my Adams GT driver and 3-wood and at least move into the 21'st Century 🥴. I do wonder what the compression rating was for feather balls.

[Foozle]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:13 AM, RMach said:

Hey all, just outside of Pittsburgh PA is Marion Golf Course. They use wicker baskets instead of flags at the greens.

Why? You might ask.

Well, 'ya see, this started in ancient Scotland and was copied/carried over at Marion in PA, USA.

See, the thing is, some folks running Scottish courses considered it CHEATING to know exactly what the wind was doing at the greens. Nay wind; Nay Golf!

Now, consider adjustable loft angles, adjustable weights both back and front and weights side to side adjustable.

CHEATING? Whom am I to say?

As a fellow troglodyte and for what it is worth, I agree with the point you are making.

I much prefer the purer, more intuitive game of yesteryear. 

I exclusively play blades and persimmon and don't use a rangefinder. Other than the days when I deliberately limit myself to a short set of 6 or 7 clubs to futher test my intuition and shot making, I get to play all 14 clubs in my bag and have to navigate round fairway bunkers and other hazards that others today simply blast over on the most direct route to the flag (or basket!).

Some here will mock me when I say I prefer my mis hits with my relics than the feeling of having got away with a poor swing using modern forgiving clubs. The (rare) sensation of hitting a pure blade iron shot or finding the middle of the screws more than compensates for the times I play my second from the ladies tee because I was <1" out on my swing path.

Without lasering every shot and relying on my eye for distance, I can also play 18 in around 2.5 hours which seems to be about half the accept norm these days?!

Modern golf is clinical and soulless. Each to their own and no criticism of those who enjoy their modern game and bragging rights about hitting a 26* 7 iron 200 yards when I need my 26.5* 4 iron to cover the same distance, but I prefer my golf as it was intended to be, natural, challenging, frustrating and frequently humiliating but always ultimately satisfying and enjoyable.

Enough said, off to the back of my cave to rub a couple of persimmons together in the hope of creating fire and cooking for lunch the critter I clubbed to death with my Mashie Niblick only this morning.

[grm24]

11 hours ago, RMach said:

You know, I was stating something from memory. I am a human being and am not perfect. Geography aside I can tell you do not have the morals or character to comprehend the point that I was making.

What a jerk!

There isn't anybody here or in the world of golf other than you that thought Merion was outside of Pittsburgh, PA. You simply made a dumb, foolish and wildly inaccurate statement on whatever point you attempted to make. Own it. As to lack of morals and character take a look at your reply to me. Pot meet kettle. 

[bcstones]

6 hours ago, Foozle said:

As a fellow troglodyte and for what it is worth, I agree with the point you are making.

I much prefer the purer, more intuitive game of yesteryear. 

I exclusively play blades and persimmon and don't use a rangefinder. Other than the days when I deliberately limit myself to a short set of 6 or 7 clubs to futher test my intuition and shot making, I get to play all 14 clubs in my bag and have to navigate round fairway bunkers and other hazards that others today simply blast over on the most direct route to the flag (or basket!).

Some here will mock me when I say I prefer my mis hits with my relics than the feeling of having got away with a poor swing using modern forgiving clubs. The (rare) sensation of hitting a pure blade iron shot or finding the middle of the screws more than compensates for the times I play my second from the ladies tee because I was <1" out on my swing path.

Without lasering every shot and relying on my eye for distance, I can also play 18 in around 2.5 hours which seems to be about half the accept norm these days?!

Modern golf is clinical and soulless. Each to their own and no criticism of those who enjoy their modern game and bragging rights about hitting a 26* 7 iron 200 yards when I need my 26.5* 4 iron to cover the same distance, but I prefer my golf as it was intended to be, natural, challenging, frustrating and frequently humiliating but always ultimately satisfying and enjoyable.

Enough said, off to the back of my cave to rub a couple of persimmons together in the hope of creating fire and cooking for lunch the critter I clubbed to death with my Mashie Niblick only this morning.

Well said.....tho, being a veggie, I've got to use my niblick to dig out those root plants 🤣

Oh, a number of year ago, I got booted off a course cuz I was too slow (I ,& my Son & my Nephew, were carrying our clubs while everyone else was in a vehicle)...coure I demanded, & received, our green fees back in total...

Edited September 21, 2023 by bcstones

[Wham49]

I go back and forth between modern, (Mavrick driver, Titleist 704 cavity backs) and hickory and it is about 2 strokes a round different on average, all that research and tech for 2 strokes over wood shafted clubs  with punch dot face, and a driver with the head of a hybrid. I play one tee box up on Hickory from back tees to regular mens tees

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

9 hours ago, Foozle said:

As a fellow troglodyte and for what it is worth, I agree with the point you are making.

I much prefer the purer, more intuitive game of yesteryear. 

I exclusively play blades and persimmon and don't use a rangefinder. Other than the days when I deliberately limit myself to a short set of 6 or 7 clubs to futher test my intuition and shot making, I get to play all 14 clubs in my bag and have to navigate round fairway bunkers and other hazards that others today simply blast over on the most direct route to the flag (or basket!).

Some here will mock me when I say I prefer my mis hits with my relics than the feeling of having got away with a poor swing using modern forgiving clubs. The (rare) sensation of hitting a pure blade iron shot or finding the middle of the screws more than compensates for the times I play my second from the ladies tee because I was <1" out on my swing path.

Without lasering every shot and relying on my eye for distance, I can also play 18 in around 2.5 hours which seems to be about half the accept norm these days?!

Modern golf is clinical and soulless. Each to their own and no criticism of those who enjoy their modern game and bragging rights about hitting a 26* 7 iron 200 yards when I need my 26.5* 4 iron to cover the same distance, but I prefer my golf as it was intended to be, natural, challenging, frustrating and frequently humiliating but always ultimately satisfying and enjoyable.

Enough said, off to the back of my cave to rub a couple of persimmons together in the hope of creating fire and cooking for lunch the critter I clubbed to death with my Mashie Niblick only this morning.

We are of the generation that learned to eyeball distances. Probably, you, like me caddied to make a few bob as youngsters. I treasure the day I overheard my man saying to his partner, ' My boy can measure to 5 yards by eye and I trust the club he gives me'. I floated off that tee! Even now, with iffy eyesight, I take great pleasure in calling out a yardage to my playing partners who've hoicked out their rangefinder. I'm still ok to 5 yards.

[tatertot]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:32 PM, RMach said:

I hit 1973 Walter Hagen Hage-Ultras and 1974 Titleist AC-108s. My Otie Crisman putter has a wooden shaft and the rear weight is also wood. I do have a Mashie but it is on a metal shaft. Feather balls, pretty funny, but since you bring up balls, modern golf balls are what they are. But when Mark McGuire had his amazing summer of home runs the balls where like 10% bouncier that year. So, one more asterisk next to that record in my book. Not just the steroids.

How are your clubs playing this year? Did they have fun blowing by all the hard spots like fairway bunkers? Does driver/8-iron or lower on every par 4 seem as fun as when a whole set of clubs was not just desired but also required for correct play?

But you are right in that I tend to be a bit of a troglodyte. Maybe I will break out the old 2000 Wilson Pro Staffs and my Adams GT driver and 3-wood and at least move into the 21'st Century 🥴. I do wonder what the compression rating was for feather balls.

NVM

Edited September 22, 2023 by tatertot

[bcstones]

@tatertot & a few others....it sure seems as if RMach is taking posts a "wee" bit personal & venting...I don't understand much of what he's talking about...maybe cool off a bit?

[RMach]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:11 AM, grm24 said:

There isn't anybody here or in the world of golf other than you that thought Merion was outside of Pittsburgh, PA. You simply made a dumb, foolish and wildly inaccurate statement on whatever point you attempted to make. Own it. As to lack of morals and character take a look at your reply to me. Pot meet kettle. 

My point is not about geography nor spelling. It is about ethics and morals to ones self. Good luck with being the smartest guy in the room. I'll bet that has worked out really well for you.

[RMach]

The book I just found and immediately purchased from eBay is called: 

Golf's Holy War

The Battle for the Soul of a Game in an Age of Science.

I think this proves my topic legitimate and I hoped we could agree that if manufacturers and marketing departments have their way golf certainly will lose its soil. Maybe it already has. And that saddens me.

[bcstones]

1 hour ago, RMach said:

The book I just found and immediately purchased from eBay is called: 

Golf's Holy War

The Battle for the Soul of a Game in an Age of Science.

I think this proves my topic legitimate and I hoped we could agree that if manufacturers and marketing departments have their way golf certainly will lose its soil. Maybe it already has. And that saddens me.

aahhh....if that was your point - I'm thinking Bobby Jones said it a wee bit more succinctly over 90 years ago - he said he played Golf because he loved the Game & said that professional golf was about money, not the Game (which seems to be what you've been trying to say....maybe???)

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

3 hours ago, bcstones said:

aahhh....if that was your point - I'm thinking Bobby Jones said it a wee bit more succinctly over 90 years ago - he said he played Golf because he loved the Game & said that professional golf was about money, not the Game (which seems to be what you've been trying to say....maybe???)

Vis. the disagreement between Allan Robertson and Tom Morris 70 years before that. This cookie jar has been open for a while.

Preaching to the choir using sloppy and inaccurate argument has never proved to be an endearing characteristic.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:13 AM, RMach said:

Hey all, just outside of Pittsburgh PA is Marion Golf Course. They use wicker baskets instead of flags at the greens.

Why? You might ask.

Well, 'ya see, this started in ancient Scotland and was copied/carried over at Marion in PA, USA.

See, the thing is, some folks running Scottish courses considered it CHEATING to know exactly what the wind was doing at the greens. Nay wind; Nay Golf!

Now, consider adjustable loft angles, adjustable weights both back and front and weights side to side adjustable.

CHEATING? Whom am I to say?

"See, the thing is, some folks running Scottish courses considered it CHEATING to know exactly what the wind was doing at the greens. Nay wind; Nay Golf!"

 

And your source for this is....?

Edited September 23, 2023 by The Aspidistra in the Hall

[bcstones]

6 hours ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

"See, the thing is, some folks running Scottish courses considered it CHEATING to know exactly what the wind was doing at the greens. Nay wind; Nay Golf!"

 

And your source for this is....?

Kinda reminds me of a book I have - "Reminiscences of Golf on St Andrews Links" by James Balfour original pub 1887 (at the time what we call the "Old Course" was being remade from the original Course...he seems to be bemoaning the fact the mashie was being used more (pitch & run) than the art of the niblick in putting the ball where you want it to be exactly (more or less(....times don't seem to change much, just re-wording....🤣

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

1 minute ago, bcstones said:

Kinda reminds me of a book I have - "Reminiscences of Golf on St Andrews Links" by James Balfour original pub 1887 (at the time what we call the "Old Course" was being remade from the original Course...he seems to be bemoaning the fact the mashie was being used more (pitch & run) than the art of the niblick in putting the ball where you want it to be exactly (more or less(....times don't seem to change much, just re-wording....🤣

Yes, the old running game with the small ball was unaffected by wind, pretty much the whole point of the 1.62 ball. Choice to play in the wind was to do with a sense of well-being rather than performance related. I live 90 miles from the Scottish border and we have the same thing on all our coastal courses. We know how to keep the ball out of the wind's eye.

[grm24]

17 hours ago, RMach said:

My point is not about geography nor spelling. It is about ethics and morals to ones self. Good luck with being the smartest guy in the room. I'll bet that has worked out really well for you.

It has thank you. BTW you still haven't made a valid point. I won't wait around for you to do so. Best of luck.

 

[Swingingk]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:13 PM, RMach said:

Hey all, just outside of Pittsburgh PA is Marion Golf Course. They use wicker baskets instead of flags at the greens.

Why? You might ask.

Well, 'ya see, this started in ancient Scotland and was copied/carried over at Marion in PA, USA.

See, the thing is, some folks running Scottish courses considered it CHEATING to know exactly what the wind was doing at the greens. Nay wind; Nay Golf!

Now, consider adjustable loft angles, adjustable weights both back and front and weights side to side adjustable.

CHEATING? Whom am I to say?

I do get where you are coming from but I have a hard time going along with the "modern equipment is like cheating" argument.  Technically speaking as long as you are playing within the rules then you aren't cheating and there's nothing in the rules that say I have to play persimmons or vintage blades or what-have-you.  Then again there's no rule that says I can't, so I do - mostly for the personal enjoyment I get from it.  Actually it doesn't really matter to me what the rules say about equipment - I'm going to play what and how I want.

Competitive golf?  Maybe that's a different story.  Maybe not.  I don't know.  All I do know is that the pros playing top tier golf are held very tightly to the rules so they are cheating much less than the average foot wedging, mulligan taking, weekend warrior type like the rest of us regardless of their equipment.  It sounds like the issue you are pondering has more to do with what the USGA and R&A say is cool vs. what the equipment companies are doing.  If you think modern equipment is bad for golf then you'll have to take it up with the governing bodies, not TaylorMade.

On the subject of the wicker baskets at Merion I'd say that those differences between courses are what makes golf so interesting.  Some are wide open and some are closed in.  Some are long and some are short.  Some let you see the natural hazards and some hide them.  I like that and I wouldn't want to see local rules, colors, and customs eliminated in favor of following some kind of pure tradition.  Wanna show me the wind at the green?  Excellent.  Don't want to show me?  That's fine too.  Argue and scrap amongst my fellow golf lovers and friends?  No thank you!