Mike Romatowski/mach 3 on weightlifting for speed

[bluedot]

2 hours ago, bilbry57 said:

 

 

 

Mike talks about weight training around the 50 minute part of the podcast.  He said his gym was having a class in weight training for players that were going to college so they were introduce to basic concepts to prevent injuries in college he started as a personal trainer.  He mentioned that he started lifting when he was 14 and still does however, he says he is not under the illusion weight training because he has never been able to prove it in his Gym. He mentions that he designed a weight program for the students of his gym and they all got stronger but all of them lost  swing speed and some went back to their original speed.  So I would say he has tested weight training with his protocols and his students and found that it was not beneficial for increasing speed

I can't account for his findings, and I do NOT want to dismiss them, or not accord him his due respect.  But if you look at what Tour pros and LD guys are doing for workouts, they would be wasting a tremendous amount of time and energy in the weight room if there are no benefits.  Not to mention the fact that many, if not most of them, are getting world class coaching to tailor their workouts for golf.  Athletes in other sports have been doing this for decades; golf is late to the dance, but there isn't really any way to dismiss the connection between strength and swing speed.  There just isn't.

 

I think there are mountains of data from many sports, golf included, that show that getting stronger and more mobile in sport-specific ways improves performance, sometimes dramatically.  Strength training is only one part of the equation, to be sure; it can't overcome poor technique, and speed training of some sort has to be done to take advantage of the extra capacity that being stronger provides. 

 

[bilbry57]

Not disagreeing with you just saying Mike said he tested in his gym and did not find a correlation.  He's a legit coach with ties to several Long drive competitors.  I've seen the data in his gym and I also experienced the increase he stated for seniors golfers and it cost me $261 for the jet stick & Speedbomber.  I know you're a par4 success guy and they have a premium program but the virtual program is on the pricey side. People can choose whatever works best for their individual needs.  IMO Mike is a standup guy, and very helpful and quick to follow up with emails and his program definitely one I would recommend. 

[airjammer]

2 hours ago, bilbry57 said:

 

 

 

Mike talks about weight training around the 50 minute part of the podcast.  He said his gym was having a class in weight training for players that were going to college so they were introduce to basic concepts to prevent injuries in college he started as a personal trainer.  He mentioned that he started lifting when he was 14 and still does however, he says he is not under the illusion weight training because he has never been able to prove it in his Gym. He mentions that he designed a weight program for the students of his gym and they all got stronger but all of them lost  swing speed and some went back to their original speed.  So I would say he has tested weight training with his protocols and his students and found that it was not beneficial for increasing speed

Correct so if your goal is to add more speed and you don’t particularly care about how fit you are, speed training in itself is a workout and is sufficient. 

[bilbry57]

1 minute ago, airjammer said:

Correct so if your goal is to add more speed and you don’t particularly care about how fit you are, speed training in itself is a workout and is sufficient. 

Mike has said that that his program is designed  increase speed so I would agree with your assessment 

[Albatross Dreamer]

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

Correct so if your goal is to add more speed and you don’t particularly care about how fit you are, speed training in itself is a workout and is sufficient. 

Most people are still going to see the max benefit supporting speed training with some sort of resistance training. Not to mentioned longevity. Even Mike spends a fair portion of his sessions with weights per his own statements.

[Three_Jack]

WLD women are at 180 ballspeed max....

 

WLD men are at 240 max....

 

Bigger + stronger = faster....

 

Why is this so hard to understand for people lol

 

Tim Tebow hit 200 ballspeed on the range with Bryson... and his swing SUCKS lol. He's just an absolute UNIT.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Three_Jack

[airjammer]

2 hours ago, Three_Jack said:

WLD women are at 180 ballspeed max....

 

WLD men are at 240 max....

 

Bigger + stronger = faster....

 

Why is this so hard to understand for people lol

 

Tim Tebow hit 200 ballspeed on the range with Bryson... and his swing SUCKS lol. He's just an absolute UNIT.

 It’s not that simple. I’m 5 10ish and 195lbs and what I would consider out of shape. I only workout during the daylight saving time months as I try to rest/practice/play during the summer months here in middle Tennessee. When I go back to the gym in November I’ll be lucky to bench 135 for 8 reps…that’s not an exaggeration but it will be hard for you to find a person longer than me in the entire gym. My swing sucks too as it’s Rahm short with early extension. 
 

I agree with where you are coming from as a great speed athlete will probably be better stronger than weaker all things considered. You certainly don’t see any world class sprinters looking like world class distance runners. 
 

Again that’s not what this topic is about so please start your own. The topic is about Mike’s findings that working out alone didn’t seem to correlate with gaining or retaining speed. He’s not alone as you don’t see rypstick/Stack/superspeed adding strength training to their programs. For most non freak athlete people the speed training program itself taxes the CNS enough. For younger athletes and older athletes that are on the juice, they might be able to recover enough to be able to workout heavily and do speed training without hurting themselves. 
 

In 2019 I worked online with Ryan Steenburg in which he provided a 8 week workout plan. Obviously, I’m not a freak athlete nor was I on gear but he was from all accounts. You can see a lot of what he did during that time on his Instagram page and what he provided me a 8 week plan in which none of the exercises where to be done super heavy just really explosive. On his page you will see him go “heavy” but it’s always explosive and only “heavy” because he’s built up to that over time. He’s certainly not barely moving the bar in any of those exercises. 
 

Lastly, long drivers and the likes of Tebow are just freak athletes. Most people should never train like them in my opinion. 

[bilbry57]

14 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Most people are still going to see the max benefit supporting speed training with some sort of resistance training. Not to mentioned longevity. Even Mike spends a fair portion of his sessions with weights per his own statements.

 I've heard Mike on a few podcasts and he says in his gym the only weights exercises the students use is hex bar dead lifts and squats that are on blocks to help prevent injuries. He also said that not all students do these lifts. He uses below. Exercises last 2-3 minutes and they help relieve tension and and rebalance the body. He had several of these in his gym and he talks about this system here I just past 10 minute mark.  

 

 

ROTEXMotion for Sports

ROTEXMotion is a total body system. It is the most versatile and comprehensive exercise program available for sports. It can be used within any athletic training or exercise program to accomplish all of the following goals: Optimal Range of Motion, Stronger Rotational Stabilizers, Injury Reduction, Muscle Activation, Rehabilitation, and Recovery.

Edited October 11, 2023 by bilbry57

[Albatross Dreamer]

1 hour ago, bilbry57 said:

 I've heard Mike on a few podcasts and he says in his gym the only weights exercises the students use is hex bar dead lifts and squats that are on blocks to help prevent injuries. He also said that not all students do these lifts. He uses below. Exercises last 2-3 minutes and they help relieve tension and and rebalance the body. He had several of these in his gym and he talks about this system here I just past 10 minute mark.  

 

 

ROTEXMotion for Sports

ROTEXMotion is a total body system. It is the most versatile and comprehensive exercise program available for sports. It can be used within any athletic training or exercise program to accomplish all of the following goals: Optimal Range of Motion, Stronger Rotational Stabilizers, Injury Reduction, Muscle Activation, Rehabilitation, and Recovery.

I was going off his Instagram post where he said ~1/3 of time is spent strength training, at least in that particular group. https://www.instagram.com/p/CspUKLuNyyg/?img_index=1

 

If you're asking my own personal opinion on how much resistance training someone should be doing with goal of improving swing speed it'll be "it depends" because there's a whole variety of variables to consider. Also due to N=1 some athletes are going to benefit from more and others less even if all other things are equal. The hard part about this conversation is that we all have different perspectives on what "strength training" means when in reality there's a huge spectrum it encompasses. The answer would never be only lifting and no swing training though.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Albatross Dreamer

[bilbry57]

3 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

I was going off his Instagram post where he said ~1/3 of time is spent strength training, at least in that particular group. https://www.instagram.com/p/CspUKLuNyyg/?img_index=1

 

If you're asking my own personal opinion on how much resistance training someone should be doing with goal of improving swing speed it'll be "it depends" because there's a whole variety of variables to consider. Also due to N=1 some athletes are going to benefit from more and others less even if all other things are equal. The hard part about this conversation is that we all have different perspectives on what "strength training" means when in reality there's a huge spectrum it encompasses. The answer would never be only lifting and no swing training though.

Yes he mentioned that he started a summer camp for kids going to College for golf that haven't been exposed to weight training so they don't get injured.

He talked about 3 girls that went to college and got injured working with College strength coach.  He only trains speed for golf now his program is working with some baseball players as well.  He consistent message is that the most important thing is speed out in front  99% of golfers pick up 2-8 MPH first session at his gym.  The average player picks up 11-12 MPHand  senior golfers improve 14MPH.  His system is different than traditional speed training but he has a database of 1,900 students at his gym and over 5,000 counting students of coaches that have taken his certification program.  He talks about this at length on the podcasts included in this thread.  Hal Sutton went to Mike's gym he was skeptical but gained I think 4MPH after 1 session he discusses this on the podcast

 

 

[Three_Jack]

I think people like this guy are just abusing the fact that normal people don't hit enough balls every week to gain speed. And certainly don't swing max effort enough every week to gain speed.

 

These are NEWBIE gains. Any amount of swinging as hard as you can, will increase your swing speed by a significant margin.

 

Then you will plateau, and plateau hard.

 

This is where strength training comes in. And it doesn't even take all of these 20 different workouts... All it takes is a few compound lifts(bench press, pullups, deadlifts(hexbar)/squats)...

 

It's not as complicated as these guys trying to sell a "program" make it out to people. And people fall for it because they exploit the "newbie gains" people get from just swinging a lot at max effort.

[airjammer]

1 hour ago, Three_Jack said:

I think people like this guy are just abusing the fact that normal people don't hit enough balls every week to gain speed. And certainly don't swing max effort enough every week to gain speed.

 

These are NEWBIE gains. Any amount of swinging as hard as you can, will increase your swing speed by a significant margin.

 

Then you will plateau, and plateau hard.

 

This is where strength training comes in. And it doesn't even take all of these 20 different workouts... All it takes is a few compound lifts(bench press, pullups, deadlifts(hexbar)/squats)...

 

It's not as complicated as these guys trying to sell a "program" make it out to people. And people fall for it because they exploit the "newbie gains" people get from just swinging a lot at max effort.

You are right most people don’t prioritize speed training even when trying to gain speed. Superspeed’s most advanced protocols only has 57 swings but its hard for people to wail away on the range when balls are going everywhere and you aren’t going to move the needle doing that once a week. I’ve always said that I’ve never seen anyone get “good” at golf without being obsessed by at some point. 
 

I tweak my left knee in a round in April of this year and I haven’t slowed down in playing or practicing to try to let it recover so I can do some more speed training. Last year I gained 13 mph in ball speed to top out at 178mph in about 6 months of speed training that consisted of around 40 balls 3 times a week swinging as fast as I could measuring with my gc2.  I haven’t even used my GC2 since April because I don’t want to get the itch for my knee’s sake. 
 

I changed my gfr’s enough that even though I haven’t been able to do any actual speed work I’ve kept a about half of my 13 mph which is fine because I was getting too long for my course I play. Too long as hitting over greens with the driver and my 3wd isn’t as accurate. I never want a pure shot punished so I’m actually happier currently having to hit a pure driver to be on the green rather than yelling at a pure drive to land soft.

 

One complaint I have with most speed training programs is that it doesn’t change your GFR’s or your motion enough to make a lasting change when you stop. Kinda like increasing your bench amount by doing nothing but progressive overload. As soon as you stop, your body determines that you don’t need that actual muscle in everyday life and you lose it quickly. 
 

I added a forceful trigger move off the ball and a more forceful backswing, that in itself was enough to swing faster for me. 

[bilbry57]

3 hours ago, Three_Jack said:

I think people like this guy are just abusing the fact that normal people don't hit enough balls every week to gain speed. And certainly don't swing max effort enough every week to gain speed.

 

These are NEWBIE gains. Any amount of swinging as hard as you can, will increase your swing speed by a significant margin.

 

Then you will plateau, and plateau hard.

 

This is where strength training comes in. And it doesn't even take all of these 20 different workouts... All it takes is a few compound lifts(bench press, pullups, deadlifts(hexbar)/squats)...

 

It's not as complicated as these guys trying to sell a "program" make it out to people. And people fall for it because they exploit the "newbie gains" people get from just swinging a lot at max effort.

I researched Mike's program before giving it a go and it's much more than trying to exploit Newbie gains. He also is  not about swinging a lot at max effort. The jet stick is the only device you swing at max effort and you only do that in 10% of the workout. He also discusses plateau's which he says is at about 2-3 months and how they help overcome.  His program is about doing less and still getting speed gains. He talked on one of the podcasts about getting invited to  speak at the Teachers /instructor forum at the PGA show. Other instructors are interested on how the program works and the gains his students are making .

IMO he is definitely legit and is an option for someone trying to improve club-head speed.  Certainly there are other ways to improve it's an individual choice.

[Wardonation]

On 10/3/2023 at 12:50 PM, Trippels said:

Berkshire just hit 241.6 mph ball speed. He can only bench 225 lbs, which isn't much for a guy his size, age, and activity level. He shared his squat and deadlift numbers a while ago too. Can't remember them exactly, but they were also not overly impressive.

So you don't need to lift heavy weights to play golf, and get super fast.

You should lift medium weights, for medium reps, through a large controlled range of motion, in a multitude of exercises that covers all basic movements and muscles.

So essentially what everyone should be doing anyways for health and injury prevention.

 

Then just add on technique and overspeed training if you want to get faster.

heavy weight lifting helps your fast twitch muscle fiber. Medium weight reps of 12 slow you down as they do not help the fast twitch.

[johnrobison]

2 hours ago, Wardonation said:

heavy weight lifting helps your fast twitch muscle fiber. Medium weight reps of 12 slow you down as they do not help the fast twitch.

As long as you’re moving more than 60% of your 1RM, you’re training the type 2 (fast twitch), since it’s at about that point when they’re recruited for the work.